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Engine Vibration - Is it serious?!

41K views 184 replies 25 participants last post by  kskane 
#1 ·
I have been experiencing engine vibration lately all the time when the car is not moving. When ever the car is on, I can hear the engine vibration (not running, vibration) and if I put my hand on the dash, I can feel the vibration. I opened the hood, and everything seems to sound normal. Any ideas or suggestion where to look or what to fix? I recently changed the oil and oil levels are fine, no leaks apart from a minor leak on the sump.

Vehicle details - 2004 E60 525i M54 with Auto trans.

Thanks in advance for your suggestions.
 
#46 ·
Got my car back. Like I said, they raised RPM by 150, so now I am at about 750 at idle. It eliminated the weird sound inside the cabin. No more wooooowooowowoowowowoowoowooww.....lol I know it's hard to describe.

As for the steering wheel vibration, it's still there, but not as bad. At this point I think I am being too paranoid, but my e39 did not do that. You almost couldn't tell that the engine was running when holding the steering wheel.

At any rate, I am going to try to use different gas. I been using 93 BP....with my other car, I always used Sunoco. Not sure if that matters but I remember my Taurus back in the day, ran like **** on BP gas.

Dealer could not find anything wrong with my car.
 
#47 ·
Thanks maxxym, for the update, much appreciated. If the wooooowooowowoowowowoowoowooww.....:rofl: (sorry buddy, but prefer the word vibration) returns, please let us know, otherwise, idle at 750 rpm has helped two owners.

By the way, you know what oil you got in your car maxxym?
 
#49 ·
lol I know it's hard to describe the sound. lol

I have no idea what oil I have.. whatever they use at the dealerships. I would assume it's Castrol.

I will let you guys know if anything changes with different fuel.
Guys, after the post from maxxym, I monitored my rpm via the hidden menu today on a long 1.5hour drive. Everytime I stopped, the engine would vibrate and the rpm would fluctuate between 648-663. I was stopped at couple of red lights and I put the car in Parking, the engine vibration calms down, but the rpm is still fluctuating between 648-665. So is the idle rpm really the cause?

Maxxym, did the paper work from the dealership mentions any other work?
 
#56 ·
Any further updates guys? Any of you having the issue already, tried the RPM increase with the $tealer? I am looking into INPA for engine adaptation reset, but not 100% sure yet.
 
#59 ·
Vibration to the steering wheel... correct... it did NOT eliminate it. It did eliminate the "cabin" vibration. It's so hard to explain.

Before my whole car was vibrating...now, it's nice and quiet, but when I put my hands on the steering wheel, I can feel the vibration.

Like I said, I will use different gas and see if that helps on my long trip next week, but my e39 was very smooth. I couldn't even tell if the engine was running.
 
#60 ·
Some update from me on this issue so far, two people have confirmed that increasing engine idle to 750 has helped and in my persuasion to attempt and code the engine idle RPM myself, I am stumbled upon something strange from INPA. Under Engine->Status->Analog->MWB1, I see "Engine speed" and "LLR normal RPM", they differ by 20rpm i.e. Engin speed sits on 640rpm and LLR normal RPM is 660. From what I understand by changing gears and driving around, "Engine Speed" is what is running and "LLR normal RPM" is what the car is codded to behave in that condition. When the difference between these two go really high say 40-50RPM the car starts to get the $hits and shakes/vibrates etc

Image attached, can any of the owners who have this problem got INPA functional and can verify this symptom please? And, does anyone know if the above theory is correct and how to fix the difference? Is this a software or a mechanical fault.

P.S. Since "LLR normal RPM" sits at 660 and that is what the hidden menu display as well, I believe the BMW recommended RPM for M54 engine should be 660 at normal idle at normal temprature i.e. 93F (in-line with the thermostat). And then this number changes according to the condition of the car and the ECU keep monitoring the engine and the programmed number accordingly.
 

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#61 ·
Just had 100K drive and I monitored the engine via INPA and observed that the "Engine Speed" is the current RPM which reflected how heavy my foot was on the pedal, but while the Engine speed is fluctuating between 2000-4000K, the "LLR Normal RPM" would fluctuate only between 710-725 rpm. So I am not sure what is the relation between these two. And when I was stopped, randomly I observed vibration in the engine and sometime not, either times the INPA Engine speed was showing 640 RPM where and the "LLR Normal RPM" was sitting on 660 RPM.

Does any one know what the LLR Normal RPM means?

Also, vibration or no vibration, the Engine speed sits on 640RPM and the "LLR Normal RPM" was sits on 660 RPM. So is this problem really related to software and engine RPM at all or something else?

Any help is welcome.
 
#62 ·
Any other update on this issue? Or any other owners having this issue?

Margal, grimma, Cali Buk, Nath0, dolfan13, Jesuslopez, mkarner79, maxxym - Any improvements or updates, please share.

One of my friends here has suggested to code the car for increased RPM when AC is on, I have not figured out how to recode the car yet, but working on it.
 
#64 ·
Oh I am sorry I was on holidays! I bought software and cable from BMTechnic and will try to install it. I had installed new windows on my laptop and by the end of the week will install INPA and DIS ! So i will try to do some live tests. But i am short on time so when I am done I will post.

Keep tryin guys this is very good thred!
 
#67 ·
Cali Buk, I look forward to see what the dealer did to fix your problem, if it is fixed. Post whenever you are ready.

Everyone else, please share any idea or directions that might help this issue, as it seems to me it could be common E60 problem (could be wrong) with age.
 
#68 ·
I took my car in to dealership for brake fluid change. I mentioned to SA vibration at idle and low RPMs. I asked can you raise RPMs at idle just a bit, I've noticed that once you step on gas and RPMs go up vibration stops. He said they cannot just raise the RPMs, there's a whole lot of things they must check first because CEL light was not on. (Another dealer had told me vibration was normal and not to worry until a CEL light came on just FYi).

Side note: they also found a faulty sleeve on tranny ($1100). Luckily covered by CPO so only $50 deductible. Lucky considering I didn't even know the car had CPO warranty when I bought it used, 6 weeks ago.

So I pick up the car and the vibration is gone. The SA said that it was a calibration problem. Guess what, the idle RPMs have been raised. It idles at little higher now and vibration is gone.

This is what the receipt says:

"1199 recalibrated air/fuel 6884 CR 0.60 $95.33"

I hope this is clear...I'm posting from my phone.
 
#71 ·
Thanks Cali Buk, this is of great help.

Anyone here know if this calibration can be done via DIS? or INPA? or Tool32? I am going to call my $tealer and check what they say.
 
#73 ·
Is this posible with M54 engines?
I am starting to believe with BMW anything is possible, not sure why they had to complicate a simple car so much at times.

Back to this problem, I digged around a bit more into INPA after the valuable feedback from Cali Buk and what the $tealer has mentioned on his reciept and I believe I found a section where the Engine Idle can be adjust (image attached 1st) but I don't know how to do it.

Also, while digging I discovered a lovely test in INPA which seems like it give you the control of shutting one cylinder at time but I am not sure what one would achieve by it (image attached 2nd).

As for calibration, all I found was that the fuel injectors needs to be coded to the car, but not sure about calibration of the fuel injectors. But does the M54 E60 has the fuel injectors that require coding or is it only the newer E60 that need that, I am not even sure on that.

Hopefully some experts might be able to shed some light here.
 

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#74 ·
Update on this issue after a little more research but I am not sure yet. What I would like to ask from all the E60 owners with this problem is - What is the condition of your MAF Sensor? How many K's on the car and has the MAF Sensor ever been changed?
 
#75 ·
My car have 165000 km.( I dont know how many miles this corespond). I have never changed MAF. But I cleaned it 3000 km before. Before cleaning this flactuations have started to apear only when engine is hot. After cleaning it hapens from the begining. Also I found out that on our cars E60 M54 MAF have 5 wires which includes Intake Air Temperature. Also I noticed when temperature is colder engine works sometimes without this flactuation issue! I guess normally. But if out side is hot I have flactuations. This is very much temperature affected? I know it sounds crazy but that is my opinion. Also this weekend i will do intake vacuum tests to find out is there any vacuum leaks. I want to pressurise my intake manifold with lets say 5 psi and duck tape exhaust pipes and tube before MAF I want to check it useing his method. and also I found out in INPA EDIABAS there is live data for intake and exhaust cams angle in given moment of time and the requested DME values. If the difference is big between them than the Vanos seals are shot. I will post back my results.
 
#76 ·
Thanks grimma, do you know where in INPA is the live date of intake and exhaust? Does any of the images below show that information?

I found the following sections in the INPA to read the air flow, not sure what it means or does.

From the different pictures and my testing with INPA what I can see is below;
MAF Sensor Voltage at ignition (engine off) is 0.41V with 4kg/h and Air mass = 1.1 g/sec
MAF Sensor Voltage at engine on is 1.4V which comes down on 1.2V with 13kg/h and Air mass = 3.4 g/sec

From the reading above, and the images, can someone help me to diagnose how to test if the MAF sensor is functioning fine.
 

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#78 · (Edited)
Intake and exhaust cam values are not shown on this photos you uploaded in post 77. But in INPA when you select E60 m54 dme you need to find this digital/analog section and there you have some german words vanos something. I am sorry i dont have inpa with me i write from ipad and i am in train now. Screen is simple, there is intake and exhaust cam green bars which have some degree for angle not sure . One is for that given moment live data and other is what DME demands if I understanded it well. So you can compare it. I will post some link when I am able to.

Maf test needs to be done with DIS i think but i need some charger before doing this. iread that DIS testing can drain battery. There is some ocsiloscope of some sort.
 
#92 · (Edited)
@grimma, do you know exactly where is this oscilloscope in DIS? I have v44 easyDIS and can't find anything. See below, I ran the diagnostic test called "Complaints" and it fixed the vibration for short time. After running that test, the car basically re-learnt new values and my Idle RPM was on 820, but after driving for 1+ hour, the idle crashed down to 650/660 again. So I am not sure what :mad: is going on........seems like the re-learning process worked but then some electrical part sent some values to computer and the IDLE was killed again. I am positive for the ICV to be the cause, but want to rule out the MAF. Also, is there a way to test the ICV because from my manual check, it is working half its strength (in DIS it is called Idle actuator), and I don't want to change it as the $tealer wants over $1000 for it and the cheapest part I can find is $500.
 

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#79 ·
I did some testing with vacuum gauge.also, I did pressurised intake system with engine off to 5-7 psi. I have some small vacuum leaks but cannot locate them exatcly where they are. You see there are very small quantity of unmesured air entering system, not enough to set the code but enough for dme to start adaptations all the time. This leaks are not there while cold, but they apear when engine is hot because materials expand/contract.

Next thing I want to do is to build a vacuum leak smoke machine. For this small leaks you guys can just forget carb cleaner and BS like that.
 
#80 ·
I did some testing with vacuum gauge.also, I did pressurised intake system with engine off to 5-7 psi. I have some small vacuum leaks but cannot locate them exatcly where they are. You see there are very small quantity of unmesured air entering system, not enough to set the code but enough for dme to start adaptations all the time. This leaks are not there while cold, but they apear when engine is hot because materials expand/contract.

Next thing I want to do is to build a vacuum leak smoke machine. For this small leaks you guys can just forget carb cleaner and BS like that.
 
#81 ·
Guys,

I have a 2009 528i and got it fixed last year under warranty. There is a bmw sib that addressed this issue. Took the car to the dealership and asked them to do the sib. They actually raised the rpm first and without success. Then they did the sib and vibration was gone. Have been driving it for one year without any problem. I'm attaching the sib FYI.
 

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#85 ·
Thanks beibei650, any chance you can look up for M54 engine issues similar to yours to see what you may find? I am going to check out those brackets anyway and see what I can find or tighten.
 
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