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Car and Driver August 2010 give new 5er 3rd place

10K views 54 replies 24 participants last post by  TJPark01 
#1 ·
I am intrigued since I have not seen a single mention of this on the BMW blogs I frequent (I am assuming I must have missed something). It appears that C & D place the new 535i third in a comparison test between the Audi A6 3T, Infiniti M 37 and the BMW 535i. The Audi was placed first.

The problem they highlight is the steering. I am a long time BMW owner (12 BMWs) and have always believed the one thing BMW got right is the steering. Apparently the electrically assisted power steering (as opposed to hydraulic which they have used in the majority of their vehicles with the exception, for example, of the Z 4 3.0 Si coupe) is dead and gives little feedback.

To paraphrase the C & D report it looks as if the new F10 5er is more of a executive luxury sedan than the sports sedan I was certainly expecting. Given the fact that the new 5 series appears to be a sell out, I must be in a minority but this sounds like a step backwards for BMW. In the past the 5 series has always been the new king of the castle and here we are looking at a reasonably well respected car magazine giving the new 5 series the thumbs down.

Truly a first for BMW??
 
#4 ·
Are you sure this is the 2011 535 (F10)? I did see an article but it had the prior model 535. Either way I think that one drive and you will see that they defiantely got this one wrong! Just my opinion!
 
#5 ·
yes, the article is only out in print form for now. Should be online shortly. Either way, the Audi is due for a total redesign next year, and I live in LA, AWD is pretty useless for me. M37 was OK, but it's still pretty expensive, for that kinda money I'd rather not drive a Datsun. I drove all the cars in this price range and category. I liked the Bimmer the best. I have a vague interest about what the press says, but ultimately It's my choice.
 
#12 ·
As an auto enthusiast, I think you would enjoy cars more if you changed them more frequently than less. Each car, be it a BMW, Lexus, or Datsun, has it's own appeal. They were each developed by engineers in different ways to meet differing criteria. I personally find interest in seeing this - one of the reasons I like to change cars so often. I thoroughly recommend it.
 
#13 ·
In my mind I would love to do this. It doesn't make a whole lot of financial sense unless you are leasing it through a company where you can either expense the cost or write it off if you own your own business. I guess I'm more of a keeper/saver. The novelty of driving a new car every few years does seem pretty compelling though.
 
#18 ·
F10 Steering



Yes, it really is that bad. I've test driven several F10s (535, 550) over the past several weeks. The ZDH option helps somewhat, but not enough. Maybe the new MSport package will make the steering acceptable for the BMW faithful. Hopefully BMW will get the hint since it is being slammed about the steering by many auto mags, including AUTOCAR from the UK.

I feel very sad about this, having driven every generation 5 series since the E28. My 550i MSport may be the last for me. It seems just a slightly smaller 7 now, not the tight, dynamic sport sedan it was. Just look at BMW's US TV ads:, it is called a "luxury sport sedan." It used to be a sport luxury sedan. I don't tihnk I am alone in my feelings.
 
#15 ·
I got my C&D and read the article. The A6 is winning because it has a phenomenal engine, a 3.0L supercharged beast putting down about 350/350 to the wheels in real life. It's the same engine in my S4, and the A6 comes with the same 19" wheels if you get the sport package. Both cars have the same servotronic steering from the current BMW M3. I thought it was crap on paper, but after driving it for just a day I love it. It's way firmer at speed than my e90 325i was - she would get twitchy over 100 on the track.
 
#19 ·
I've logged 700 miles on my F10 of which 400 on a crappy Polish highway at speeds between 90 and 100 mph. I had an E60 530d with active steering and dynamic damper control before. Now I only have the variable dampers. There is a minimal lack of feel when you move the wheel by about 1mm, then the assistance kicks in and yes it does feel different than the hydraulic set up in the E60. Different does not mean worse in my eyes. The assistance strength varies depending on the damper setting and the steering is much meatier in sport than in comfort.

If you think this might be an issue for you just test drive it and make your own opinion. i'm loving it overall. It's a much more mature car than an E60 - closer to the 7 series than the 3 series. It's not quieter than the E60 though. I would even say that at 100 mph + there's more wind noise. That blunt front end might be the culprit.
 
#21 ·
We can go back and forth on this steering issue all day long. I am proudly a BMW fan boy, and have been for a long time. But after test driving both the F10 535 and 550, I have to honestly say that the steering felt numb and both cars felt massive, just like the C&D article described. Just a fact. We just have to accept this until if/when BMW decides to fix this problem. I hope they do, but if not there are suitable alternatives out there, I hope. But so far I haven't found any that I would buy.
 
#22 ·
I wouldn't characterize the steering as a "problem". Sometimes the Bimmer enthusiast crowd looks at the world through rose colored glasses. Most owners aren't going to change the rims, suspension, blackout the headlights, chip the car, or make mods. They don't know what HPFP or N54 means. Or the difference between a E39/E60 or F10. I think BMW took the direction of this car towards the 7 because that is what the majority of buyers are going to like. It really just depends on your tastes. Clearly for you it's too soft of a car. The last few cars I have owned have been a Merc and Lexus and it seems pretty hard in comparison. It really depends on your point of view.
Same magazine different spin:
2011 BMW 5-series / 535i - First Drive Review
 
#23 ·
Sport is always relative, so it seems that others have passed BMW - or that BMW has lowered its sports quotient, relatively.

I'd be interested in a E60 vs. F10 driving comparison.
 
#24 ·
I just received my C&D and read the article. It was obvious that they had to reach hard in some areas to score the 5 low enough to get it to finish 3rd. If you really look at what they scored it low on, it really is in areas that are very subjective. I recently ordered my 550 after driving everything close including the S5, A6 and S6. The biggest dissapointment of those 3 was the S6. It has a detuned V10 that was a lot slower than the 550i. Not only does the S6 usually come in last when up against the M5 and E63, in my comparison, it did not come close to the F10 550 either. The A6 and S6 both have really great steering feel but the gap between the Audi and the 5er are not as far apart as C&D wants the mkt to believe. I've owned 7 BMW's including M3's and M5's and was seriously considering going with the Audi. I had to wait for an S6 to arrive at the dealer to test drive it. After the drive, I thought it was so much softer than my last M5. That was not good. I left very un-excited about the V10 S6. I've driven that engine in the lambo and loved it. It is a dog in the S6. After driving the S6, I went back and drove the 550 and quickly noticed how much nicer the materials, fit and finish of the BMW were. Audi still does not feel like a luxury car. It feels like a nice VW. On top of that, the dealer said the S6 was so exclusive that people were lined up to buy them and there would be no discount from sticker. I asked why the car mags were not as proud of the S6 as they were and they were shocked and offended. I think C&D has left the door open to have the 550i spank the E550 and S6 (or M45) when they run that test. They will still complain about the steering but they will love the numbers that the 4.4 puts out. I also think the 535 engine is great too but, by the time I load it up with options, it was so close in price to the 550 that it was an easy decision to go with the V8. For 2mpg less, I get a ton more power and torque. I think the real results will bear themselves in the sales numbers. The 5 will outsell the Audi hands down. For 8K less, my decision to go with a loaded 550 over the S6 was easy.

ordered:
550i
Nappa
Prem2
Sports PKG
Dynamic handling
Cold WX
Vent Seats
Anthracite headliner
split fold down seats
Sport trans
Smartphone
 
#25 ·
I read the C&D report today as well. The main areas they didn't like were amenities and steering feel. They said the steering had the best feel on the highway. The amenities can be ordered per your own taste and there are far more available on the 550i than the A6 or S6. Besides, I drove the 550i with sport package and sport transmission really hard and fast on a back country winding hilly road yesterday and the steering feel in sport mode was just fine. I'm more concerned with highway stability anyway because I do a lot more driving on the highway than on the twisties.

Where I agree with C&D is that the F10 is very luxurious. In comfort mode it feels like a Limo.

Ordered my 550i xDrive yesterday for delivery in October. I got every available option except the ski bag and rear entertainment. :)
 
#26 ·
I read the C&D report today as well. The main areas they didn't like were amenities and steering feel. They said the steering had the best feel on the highway. The amenities can be ordered per your own taste and there are far more available on the 550i than the A6 or S6. Besides, I drove the 550i with sport package and sport transmission really hard and fast on a back country winding hilly road yesterday and the steering feel in sport mode was just fine. I'm more concerned with highway stability anyway because I do a lot more driving on the highway than on the twisties.

Where I agree with C&D is that the F10 is very luxurious. In comfort mode it feels like a Limo.

Ordered my 550i xDrive yesterday for delivery in October. I got every available option except the ski bag and rear entertainment. :)
First of all, congrats on your upcoming F10 550i.... I just wanted to say that my biggest problem when test driving the F10 was how massive and heavy it felt vs my E60. The long undulating hood even seemed to affect my frontal visibility. I know, it's a larger, heavier car (and probably closer in driving feel to a 6 or 7 series than the previous 5er).... something that I will have to get used to if I decide to buy one..... and I probably will, even after all my complaining.
 
#28 ·
The car is massive; people who are used to a E90 or E60 will all agree on that. It's not the length but the width of the car that makes it so. Also some of the sight lines are hard to make out at first which makes it a little unnerving in the underground parking lot @ Target in West Hollywood; tight spaces and lots of kids. The A pillar is so massive you need to get used to a blind spot where the A pillar and side mirrors meet. After a week it will seem like second nature to you. Humans are extremely good at adapting to their surroundings, and on the open road the car does shrink around you
The width also has a huge advantage in terms of comfort feel. The car feels much more inviting and airy. The E60 has more of a cockpit feel and especially in the back it's way too cramped for adults. You feel like you could swim inside this car. Depending on your perspective this is either good or bad. For my red meat eating American arse, I'd rather have it large and in charge. It's Goldilocks for me. 3 is too small, 7 is too big, 5 is just right. :D
 
#30 ·
Everything is relative.
For me I had to choose between the following products. Here are my notes from the car buying process:
I have issues with FWD cars, so all of those are out, which effectively leaves me with a small pool of choices.
1. BMW 535i - No more oddly shaped Chris Bangle designs. New turbo inline 6, replacing painfully problematic fuel pumps. Love the inside and out.
2. Mercedes E Class - Over promise, under deliver. The V6 Honda Acoord has more horse power then the E350. Leather is an order from factory only option on this car, what a joke.
3. Audi A6 - New model on the horizon. I like the Supercharged DI V6 though.
4. Acura RL - Acura needs to fire everyone on their exterior design teams. You make cars, not Intergallatic space crusiers.
5. Jaguar XF - Hmm, bankrupt more times then Larry King has ex-wives, sold to Ford, sold to Tata. Reliability history of a Ukranian built IPhone.
6. Infiniti M - For that much money, I'd rather have a German Car.
7. Lexus GS - Aside from the back, I like how these look, but was surprised at all the quality issues people have mentioned on these. Get your house in order Toyota.
 
#34 ·
Hard to tell if the 535 has the dynamic handling package, but my guess is that it has - BMW would be stupid not to provide it to C/D, and C/D would be stupid not to test one without it. I did a pricing on BMWUSA, and with ZSP, DHP, ZPP, and metallic color, the final price of $57,725 is exactly the price shown by C/D.

Applaud Audi for offering the best tires on the market, Michelin Pilot Sport PS2. Acura TL is the only other car that I know comes with these tires. A6 also has full-size spare. BMW - you can think hard again about your Runflats.
 
#35 ·
In the video portion of the test, the 535i does have ZDH, Dynamic Handling Package, the driver mentions Sport and sport+ modes.
M3's come with Michelin Pilot Sport PS2. So far the Good Year RFT's have been pretty good. Much better than I anticipated. However, I agree, still am not convinced to spend 1500 on a replacement set, when I can spend 800-1000 and buy a patch kit and an air compressor.
 
#36 · (Edited)
Yeah I read that review and I think its a joke. The 5er should have topped that review. I don't own one but I have driven all 3 of those cars and I think the Audi ranking is a joke!

I rank cars in this class as follows:
1) BMW 550i
2) Jag XF 5.0
3) Infiniti M56S
4) Lexus GS460
5) Audi A6 4.2
6) Mercedes E550 (harsh ranking but I don't understand how they can design a car with 380hp that feels so slow!)

I only ranked the V8s since I'm a V8 lover.
 
#43 · (Edited)
I agree with you. I think Lexus is building the cars that Mercedes should be building. Luxury oriented sedans which are still engaging to drive. Mercedes handling and throttle response has just become too soft. And their engines are not as smooth as the BMW ones as you point out.

I personally don't rate Audi as luxury sports sedans either. They don't have rear wheel drive. I have been a big advocate of rear wheel drive ever since my first bimmer. AWD cars may be more planted and better in winter but they're not as much fun.

Regarding my rankings earlier - yes I have driven all those cars. I test drive extensively since I'm a genuine enthusiast. I don't use the same road like C&D. However there is also one key flaw in C&Ds tests which is that they don't use the same tires on each of the cars. On my last 3 cars the first thing I did when I took delivery is to ditch the OEM tires and buy Michelin PS2s. It makes a big difference, and I'm sure that the spread in handling characteristics in the C&D tests is accentuated by tire selections. Most buyers are fine with that because they stick with stock tires, but I don't.

What I love about the F10 550i is that it actually pulls of best comfort cruiser, and best on-the-limit sports sedan at the same time with the wide range of suspension settings. It was truly impressive.
 
#45 ·
#46 ·
Did anyone notice that the BMW got only 5 points for "features and amenities" while the Infiniti and Audi got 10. Without that deduction, the BMW would have come in second. The only reference in the article to a features and amenities problem with the BMW is a comment about having to pay extra for the navigation on such an expensive car. Don't know about the Audi, but I do know that the nav is not standard on the Infiniti M either. It's part of an optional package, just like on the BMW. The 5 pont deduction just makes no sense. I think Car and Driver intentionally make the ratings controversial to sell more magazines.
 
#47 · (Edited)
I think Car and Driver intentionally make the ratings controversial to sell more magazines.
Can you cite any other examples of this? I agree they stretch their headlines, but I doubt they would jiggle their results for short term gain. For example, I can't recall the last time a Ferrari lost a comparo - that would sell more magazines. Plus BMW is a big advertiser - why upset them?

And just because they only mention 1 item related to features and amenities doesn't mean that was the only item that was considered for the rating. If the article conveyed all the info, the ratings would be redundant.
 
#48 ·
BMW loses in both Chassis and Experience category, that alone is usually, especially since this is a new model.

Who knows, maybe Audi A6 will come out softer and more comfortable too, because the baby boomer are getting older.

Tell me another American auto journal that has more credibility in car testing than Car and Driver.
 
#49 · (Edited)
***Deleted*** Inaccurate post!
 
#51 ·
I am not defending the ranking here but let's not give C&D industry props for having the best comparo tests going. Just recall a few months back when C&D did the test between the MKS, 550, XF, Quattroporte, MB E550 on Loveland Pass. No way in hell you run that test with one boosted motor vs. the remaining having naturally aspirated ones - especially at 12K elevation.

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=404779&highlight=lincoln

So, lets not get ahead of ourselves and claim C&D has the besting testing methodology.
Sorry Wesleyan, it's not even a C&D test. It clearly shows Automobile magazine and Motortrend on top of the video. And the point of the test IS to show the benefits of turbo at high altitude.
 
#50 ·
Just did the BMW Driving Event yesterday and drove the F10 550i (among others).... and I definitely agree that the steering feels vague/numb. I think it was worse than my wife's new x5...and definitely a lot worse than my e90 M3.

Actually, none of the cars they had available were awe-inspiring either (we drove the active-hybrid x6, 740, 550i, z4 335is...we tried test driving the GT but was told there was a limit of 2 cars :D)
 
#53 ·
Why is this a surprise.

I test drove the F10 550i and was very disappointed. The steering response is a disaster. The steering response is artificial. It reminds me of a lexus rather than BMW. F10 drove like a whale compare to the E60 M5. Felt bulky and reluctant.

F10 has become too mainstream. If i wanted a car that rides and handled like a lexus, i would have bought a lexus. BMW really really messed it up.
 
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