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Where to get M54 metric sized vacuum tubing at decent prices?

46K views 36 replies 10 participants last post by  bluebee 
#1 · (Edited)
Q1: Where can we get metric-sized vacuum tubing at a decent price? [Note: It's $300 at Realoem nominal prices!]
Q2: If metric vacuum tubing can't be found at a reasonable price, what American-sized vacuum hose would YOU buy as a replacement?

Note: Following advice to 'bring it in and match it up" ... I think I ended up buying the wrong vacuum tubing from O'Reilly Auto Parts (because two different San Jose Autozone stores didn't have any close vacuum hoses and the hardware stores only had generic rubber hoses ... so the best I could find following advice posted here was TWICE the ID of the original hoses at O'Reilly Auto Parts!)
- M54 vacuum hoses ... what diameter ... what brand ... what material ... what length?

Take a sample of the hose you need to your local auto parts store they will sell you what you need.
This advice 'sounds' good; but the results are wholly dependent on the (almost depleted) stock at the auto parts stores!


Unfortunately, after following that advice, upon closer inspection back at home, the best the auto parts guys at three stores could do by matching was, apparently, unfortunately, about twice the ID of the original hose.



Here is what I finally bought out of the limited sizes available at the three auto parts stores.

  • Thermoid Windshield Washer & Vacuum Tubing, PN P3340, 5/32 inch ID by 5/16 inch OD by 6 feet long, $3.50 + 8.75% tax


The vacuum hose I'm trying to replace is the following in Realoem:
- 04 VACUUM HOSE BLACK 3,3X1,8 11657803732 $16.43

  • I 'assume' the 3,3 is 3.3 mm outside diameter (OD).
  • Likewise, I 'assume' the 1,8 mm is 1.8 mm inside diameter (ID).
Assuming that, and assuming the ID is vastly more important than the OD, the nearest American hose is NOT the 5/32 inch ID one I purchased; it's actually about half that size. Right?



Looking at this chart, would you say the nearest American hose size is somewhere between 1/16 inch ID and 5/64" ID?


Two fundamental questions:

Q1: Where can we get metric-sized vacuum hoses at a decent price (Realoem prices are astoundingly huge ... it would cost upwards of $300 to replace all the vacuum hoses in the M54 engine):
- Might we be able to list, with pics (realoem diagrams ok) of ALL E39 vacuum lines?

Q2: If metric vacuum hoses can't be found at a reasonable price, what American-sized vacuum hose would YOU buy as a replacement?
 

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#2 ·
I got my vacuum hose from Bill Dodge Auto Group, same place as the DISA valve buy. I paid $11 for a few years back. The good thing is they give you about 36" and you only need about 5" to fix the SAP. The rest of the vacuum line is a hard plastic tube.
 
#3 · (Edited)
Just for clarification's sake, 3,5x1,8 Vacuum Hose means an ID of 3.5mm with a wall thickness of 1.8mm.
That DOES clarify things. I was wrong in the previous posts about the ID (circled in red below).

The corrected ID is circled in orange below!


I got my vacuum hose from Bill Dodge Auto Group... about $11 ... about 36"
Do you have a picture of that hose in situ?

Is it braided? (In this thread, Doru says the updated part is braided).

It would be nice to see what it looks like because I could find nothing like it in the auto parts stores.

The closest I could find that had cloth inside the rubber was fuel system hose:


It seems, so far, based on this thread:
- M54 vacuum hoses ... what diameter ... what brand ... what material ... what length?

That what we really want is:

  • About 3 feet of 1/8" ID vacuum tubing (3.5mm ID actual spec)
  • Braided seems to be preferred for strength
  • Silicone seems to be suggested for heat resistance
I could not find ANYTHING like that at the local San Jose auto parts stores.

Here is the best I could find locally:


I'll search online - but - I admit ... I'm really out of my realm when it comes to vacuum hoses.

QUESTION: Does anyone know of a good supplier for the following?

  • 3 feet of 1/8" ID silicone-rubber braided vacuum hose
 
#5 ·
Having never heard of McMaster-Carr, I googled and found that p/n tubing here:


This nice materials PDF was also found in my search:
- Material Selection Guide for Vacuum/Pressure Control Tubing

Here is the "Executive Summary":
  • Good - Neoprene
    • Shore 80A Durometer hardness (softer would be better)
    • 30 feet of 1/8" ID 1/16" wall thickness
    • 10 feet of 1/4" ID 1/8" wall thickness
    • Source: McMaster-Carr < http://www.mcmaster.com/pdf/106/0075.pdf>
    • Total Tubing Cost $14.10
    • Use heat stabilized Nylon cable ties $0.03 each
    • Source: McMaster-Carr < http://www.mcmaster.com/pdf/106/0678.pdf>
  • Better - Silicone tubing
    • Shore 70A Durometer hardness (the widely available 50A is less desirable)
    • 30 feet of 4mm ID 2mm wall thickness
    • 10 feet of 1/4"ID,1/8"wall thickness (appx. 6mm ID, 3mm wall)
    • Source: McMaster-Carr < http://www.mcmaster.com/pdf/106/0076.pdf>
    • Total Tubing Cost $35.70
    • Use Tefzel cable ties $0.51 each
    • Source: McMaster-Carr < http://www.mcmaster.com/pdf/106/0678.pdf>
  • Best -Viton tubing
    • 30 feet of 1/8" ID 1/8" wall thickness (Shore 60A Durometer hardness, 1/8" (3.2mm) wall is very thick so the softer Viton is easier to stretch over the fittings)
    • 10 feet of 1/4"ID,1/8"wall thickness (Shore 75A Durometer hardness)
    • Source: McMaster-Carr < http://www.mcmaster.com/pdf/106/0075.pdf>
    • Total Tubing Cost $306.00
    • Use wide-band spring steel hose clam
This helps with both the WHERE to get the hose and WHAT to get, so I'll bring some of the information over to this WHAT thread:
- E39 (1997 - 2003) > M54 vacuum hoses ... what diameter ... what brand ... what material ... what length?
- E39 (1997 - 2003) > Where to get M54 metric sized vacuum hoses at a decent price (or what American size)?
 

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#8 · (Edited)
A PTFE vacuum hose should be an excellent replacement for the OEM (rubber).
Are these our choices, in order, for engine vacuum hose material?

  1. Viton
  2. PTFE
  3. Silicone
  4. Neoprene
This table is from the referenced PDF:


Are these our best choices for suppliers (for three-foot lengths)?
Note: This list & description is from the referenced PDF:
  • McMaster-Car

    • McMaster-Carr is the place to buy metric and/or English Viton hose by the foot. They will sell to anyone with a credit card. McMaster-Carr has silicone tubing by the foot. They have silicone tubing with Shore 70A Durometer hardness in English and Metric sizes. If you are getting silicone tubing, 70A is better than 50A. 50A is the most widely available and is just too soft. If your supplier doesn't know what the Durometer hardness rating is for the silicone tubing he is%2
 

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#7 ·
The RX7 article you linked suggests using Viton tubing with 1/8" walls. The catalog number for that is 5119K48. $11 per foot.

The walls on the 52315K121 tubes are only 1/32" thick and the catalog says the compatible fittings are compression fittings.

Using Viton is a good idea because it is resistant to oil.
 
#12 ·
Belmetric (on the Internet) also carries a large selection of different types of metric hose.
 
#14 ·
Sorry, I wasn't clear.

The hard, thin-walled tubing 52315K121 is inappropriate for our use because it is supposed to be used with compression fittings. We definitely don't want tubing that is so stiff that it will not stretch over the barbed fittings.

When I wrote that Viton tubing would be more durable, I meant that Viton tubing would last longer because it is unaffected by heat and oil.

I ordered and received 5' of the 5119K41 Viton tubing 1/8" ID, 1/4" OD 1/16" wall Shore 60A. It is about as flexible as silicone tubing. I replaced the piece of tubing from the SAP valve to the hard plastic pipe under the oxygen sensor connector. This tubing is a good tight fit for that application that is listed as 3.3mm. Maybe a little tight on the hard tubing, but that's probably good. It also fits well on the lower part of the "F" connector that goes to the FPR, which is listed as 3.5mm tubing.

Looks to me as though 1/8" tubing will work for both 3.3mm and 3.5mm if it is flexible enough.

I'll replace all the 3.3mm and 3.5mm tubing I can find with the Viton tubing and let you know how much tubing I used.
 
#15 · (Edited)
52315K121 is inappropriate for our use because it is supposed to be used with compression fittings.
I was wondering about the need for compression fittings with that PTFE tubing. Moving forward, I'll remove PN 52315K121 tubing from our short list.

I ordered and received 5' of the 5119K41 Viton tubing 1/8" ID, 1/4" OD 1/16" wall Shore 60A.
This is good information.

Adding it to the short list, we get (in price order for at least 3' of tubing):

  • $7 ===> Norprene,61A (soft), -75°F to +275°F, PN: 51075K22, barbed fittings, 1/8" ID, 1/16" thick, $0.72/ft (minimum length = 10 feet)
  • $21 ==> Viton, Shore 60A (soft), -15°F to +400°F, PN: 5119K41, 1/8" ID, 1/16" thick, $4.19/ft, available length >= 3' = 5 feet)
  • $22 ==> Gum rubber, 45A (very soft), -70°F to +180°F, PN: 5543K41, barbed fittings, 1/8" ID, 1/8" thick, $2.21/ft (minimum length = 10 feet)
  • $55 ===> Viton, Shore 60A (soft), -15°F to +400°F, PN: 5119K48, barbed fittings, 1/8" ID, 1/8" thick, $11/ft, available length >= 3' = 5 feet)
  • $?? ===> Silicone, ?


This tubing is a good tight fit for that application that is listed as 3.3mm. It also fits well on the lower part of the "F" connector that goes to the FPR, which is listed as 3.5mm
This is GREAT empirical data! Just what we need (thanks for adding value!). :)

One caveat: Since Realoem is wrong on these diagrams in lots of places, I'm not so confident that the 3.3 mm and 3.5 mm are actually correct.

1/8" tubing will work for both 3.3mm and 3.5mm if it is flexible enough
Personally, I suspect that the two different values are misprints in the diagrams. I don't know that. I just see a lot of other mistakes, so, I wonder if these values are correct.

I'll replace all the 3.3mm and 3.5mm tubing I can find with the Viton tubing and let you know how much tubing I used.
Please do!

At the moment, we're assuming 3 feet of hose plus at least two endcaps (i.e., the CCV vacuum port, and the manifold vacuum port next to the sucking jet pump).

Knowing exactly how much hose is required would add value to the tribal database that others, for years on end, will benefit from!

In fact, people are already asking that question:
- What size is this hose?, by ill_kuma
 

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#16 ·
I finished replacing the vacuum tubing between the SAP electric valve and the SAP Valve and the tubing between the lower nipple of the "F" connector and the hard tubing that goes to the FPR. That was all of the vacuum tubing I could find on the topside of my 2001 530i M54.

I used the 1/8" Viton ID tubing with 1/8" thick walls. It was a tight fit on the hard plastic tubes, but workable. I don't think you'd want anything stiffer unless it was just a little larger inside.

I started with 5 feet of tubing, and I had 2.5 feet of tubing left over. I also a short piece where I measured wrong.

It was difficult to remove the old tubing off. I had to cut it off the hard plastic tubing. I found it easiest to split the tubing with a knife and peel it off. The tubing going to the electric valve was hard to reach. You have to work blind. Also, I found that the hard plastic tubing that runs from the SAP valve along the valve cover was curved around the back. It was not two pieces of hard plastic tubing connected with flexible tubing as the diagram seems to show.

The old tubing was intact, but snapped when I tried to pull it off. It was functional, but deteriorating.
 
#17 · (Edited)
That was all of the vacuum tubing I could find on the topside of my 2001 530i M54
Thank you for reporting back to the team to help the rest of us learn!

How did you get to the back of the engine? Was that easy or hard?

1/8" Viton ID tubing with 1/8" thick walls. It was a tight fit on the hard plastic tubes, but workable. I don't think you'd want anything stiffer unless it was just a little larger inside.
This is great to know.
a) The Viton 1/8 by 1/8 works ... and ...
b) It's about as hard as you want to go (Shore 60A)

I started with 5 feet of tubing, and I had 2.5 feet of tubing left over.
Looks like three feet is a good length to specify (even though you can't get 3 feet at McMaster-Carr ... you have to get either 2 feet or 5 feet).

I found it easiest to split the tubing with a knife and peel it off.
Good hint. I did mine in the Autozone parking lot with the screwdriver in the trunk toolkit and it was a disaster. The knife split is a better idea.

Here is my ruination of the end of my F-valve 1/8" hose:


The tubing going to the electric valve was hard to reach. You have to work blind.
Did you remove the engine cover or the cabin air filter intakes? That's what I plan on doing to get access to that area when I do mine.

the hard plastic tubing that runs from the SAP valve along the valve cover was curved around the back
Oh oh. Yet another error in the diagrams!
- Engine => Vacuum control => AIR PUMP F VACUUM CONTROL
The diagram shows it as a straight piece!

The old tubing was intact, but snapped when I tried to pull it off. It was functional, but deteriorating.
Given the realoem nominal price for that curved pipe, we may need to find a good supplier for it too!

My plastic tubing was the same way. About a half inch or so broke off inside the SAP valve hose on the passenger side of the engine.

You can see the broken snippet of vacuum pipe inside the vacuum tubing at the left in my picture below:
 
#24 ·
I replaced the parts in red with 1/8" flexible tubing. The yellow parts are 3.3mm hard pipe. I colored the 7mm end cap in blue to avoid confusion.
EXCELLENT Annotations! No further questions, your honor!

You are justly in the ranks of those who add real value to the team by making things clear as day!

 

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#25 ·
Based on suggestions in this E46 thread:
- E46 (1999 - 2006) > M54 engine vacuum tubing - what size, what material, what length, what supplier, etc.

We can add ECS Tuning to the list of suppliers for OEM & Silicone tubing (but they don't carry the necessary vacuum endcaps).

The web
lookup for ECS Tuning is fraught with problems, so allow me to simply point to the various hoses that may be of interest for the M54 engine:

$11.66/meter, manufacturer Genuine BMW, Mfg Part# 11727545323, ECS Tuning part number ES#26814, Vacuum Hose (3.5mm ID x 1.8mm thick x 1 meter long)


$13.30, 11657803732 > ES#26414, length & size not listed

 

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#28 ·
WAY so simple thing to make so complicated
dealer sale ~5$ a piece which i used on 2 cars and still have some
I'm incredulous.

Let me get this straight.

You bought all these vacuum hoses, tubes, pipes, & endcaps at the dealer, for just $5?????

Engine => Intake manifold => Intake manifold system
  • #15, Cap, D=3,5MM, Qty=2, 11611437560, $3.39 (between 1/8" & 9/64" ID)
  • #17, Cap, D=7,0MM, Qty=1, 11611727176, $3.39 (between 17/64" & 19/32" ID)
  • 06 O-ring 7X3 Qty=6 PN=11617502761 $0.8
  • 07 DISA Adjuster unit Q=1 PN=11617544806 $212.50 (the vacuum valves can go bad)
  • DISA O-ring
    • M52TU #11617504543 OEM size 50mm ID x 3.5mm thick x 57mm OD
    • M54 Chemgigi O-ring aftermarket 51mm ID x 2.5mm thick x 56mm OD
Engine => Vacuum control => AIR PUMP F VACUUM CONTROL
  • 04 VACUUM HOSE BLACK 3.3X1.8 11657803732 $16.43 (two pieces)
  • 03 VACUUM PIPE 1 11727574490 $27.94 (one piece)
  • 07 VACUUM HOSE BLACK 3.3X1.8 11657803732 $16.43 (two pieces)
  • 09 VACUUM CAP (no part number shown)

Engine => Exhaust manifold => EMISSION CONTROL-AIR PUMP
  • 05 PRESSURE HOSE ASSY 1 11721435456 $22.73

Fuel Preparation System => Fuel Supply => Fuel filter, pressure regulator
  • 13 VACUUM HOSE BLACK 3,5X1,8 11727545323 $14.82
  • 11 Hose 1 13321437801 $24.87

Engine => Vacuum control => Vacuum control - engine
  • 02 Hose elbow 1 11617503666 $8.17
  • 03 Hose elbow 1 11617547582 $17.25

Fuel Preparation System => Fuel injection system => FUEL TANK BREATHER VALVE
  • 03 fuel tank breather line 1 13907557924 $27.77
  • 04 fuel tank breather line 1 13907504303 $27.77

Engine => Cylinder Head => Crankcase-Ventilation/oil separator
  • 02 Vent pipe 1 11611432559 $25.7303 Connecting line 1 11617504535 $33.87
  • 04 Vent hose 1 11157532649 $15.37
  • 06 VACUUM HOSE BLACK 3,5X1,8 ? 11727545323 $14.82 (not on all E39s; the M54 has an endcap as shown earlier)
  • 07 Return pipe 1 11617504536 $33.87

Fuel Preparation System => Fuel injection system => Hot-film air mass meter
  • 03 Rubber boot Q=1 PN=13541435625 $28.30

Fuel Preparation System => Fuel injection system => VALVES/PIPES OF FUEL INJECTION SYSTEM
  • 04 O-ring; 7,52X3,52; Q=6; PN=13641437487; $3.75
  • 05 O-ring; 9,2X2,8; Q=6; PN=13641437486; $3.75
 
#33 · (Edited)
I was remiss in that I should report back that my year-long quest to locate the source(s) of a long-standing lean misfire condition (many codes) was resolved simply by replacing a few rubber hose/tubes/pipes/boots/caps & gaskets.

Specifically:
a) I first replaced all the rubber tubes/hoses/pipes/plugs I could easily get to in the engine bay ... which immediately helped somewhat lessen the frequency of the lean-condition misfire codes ...
- Where in the USA to get new vacuum tubing & vacuum caps (1) & what SAE sizes to get for all the metric M54 engine vacuum tubes, hoses, pipes, and caps (1) & correcting the F-connector errors in the realoem diagrams (1) & finding the ends of hard-to-locate vacuum tubes (1) & sorely needed clarification on how the M54 CCV vacuum port works on the M52 CCV valve connection to the fuel pressure regulator connection (1)

b) I then ran a smoke test ...
- How to make your own smoke machine (1)


c) Which pinpointed a lower CCV vent hose leak ...
- Does the order of the misfire OBDII DTCs diagnostic trouble codes actually matter (1)


d) I also unclogged the dipstick guide tube which was clogged solid (and perhaps was a reason for the CCV vent hose leak) ...
- How to test, clean, & redesign the original BMW dipstick guide tube to prevent CCV vent clogs (1)


e) Lastly, I replaced the rubber boot which is connected to the ICV & TCV.


Those simple steps resolved my lean condition misfires (sufficient to pass the California dynomometer smog test):
- What you can expect for E39 smog emissions test results (1)

BTW, while I rarely solve problems by replacing components without learning how to test them, I concur that one way to solve perplexing lean condition misfires, at this age of our bimmers, is to simply replace every vacuum-related rubber hose/tube/pipe/boot/cap/gasket in the engine bay.
 
#34 ·
BTW, while I rarely solve problems by replacing components without learning how to test them, I concur that one way to solve perplexing lean condition misfires, at this age of our bimmers, is to simply replace every vacuum-related rubber hose/tube/pipe/boot/cap/gasket in the engine bay.
I would agree that this is a sound approach for resolving lean conditions codes Our cars are all approaching or exceeding 10 years of age. The rubber components were never intended to last forever and their failure is typically the cause of the problem. Identifying which hose/tube/boot/etc. is problematic, which makes this strategy appealing. Plus you won't have to worry about them for another 10 years! :thumbup:
 
#35 ·
One "vacuum tubing" component we need to figure out the size of is the brittle PLASTIC PIPE (#3 below) that runs along the passenger side of the engine valve cover, which often breaks when replacing the valve cover:
- What can go wrong when replacing the VCG valve cover gasket (1)

See also:
- What are the components of the secondary air system SAS (1)
Kibokojoe said:
Secondary Air pump (SAP) troubleshooting and repair. (2000 BMW E39 528i)
If you are receiving two OBD errors P1421 and P1423 it may be your SAP system. I have read several of the online manuals and Bentleys is worthless, they all gave me a headache by the time I was finished. They all made it harder to determine the problem then they needed too. So to help the next guy (simply) through this problem here is my write up.
Take a look at the illustration there are four major components to the SAP system.

  1. Secondary air pump (SAP
  2. Air pump valve (APV)
  3. Electric valve (EV)
  4. Non-return valve (NRV)
First test detach hose from the SAP at the APV (# one with a yellow circle). Mine has the squeeze ring. Once detached have someone start the car. Car has to be cold for at least 4 hours. Feel for air is blowing from the SAP.
If blowing SAP is good
If no blowing SAP bad
If SAP is blowing feel the inlet side of the APV if you feel exhaust APV is bad. Test for one minute to see if valve eventually closes.
If APV is closed check the vacuum on the APV. I used a mitivac. Check APV by itself (it should hold a vacuum with no leaking). Then check the hose running from the APV to the manifold. I attached the mitivac at point A and put my finger over point B. This is where I found my leak***8230;. hose was rotten. Check the rest of the hose from C to the manifold.
The NRV is directional (Arrow). You can check it with the mitivac, I just sucked on it to determine the direction of the flow, it only goes one way. If you can draw air both directions the NRV is bad.
The biggest pain in this project was getting the EV out for inspection. The EV is under the back of the intake manifold and you have to use a small mirror and a flashlight to see and determine how to get the EV off of the mounting bracket.
Remove the right side air box
Remove the beauty covers from the top of the engine. Makes it easier to check the vacuum hoses and to get at the EV
While you're doing this it is best if you replace all the hoses # 7 and #4.
If you look at the side picture of the EV you will see a clip. You have to pull the EV towards you while pushing in on the clip towards the engine. I used a thin blade 6" screwdriver. Unless you have someone to hold the mirror and light you will have to do this blind. Also the on-line illustration of the EV are backwards. (red arrow).
Kibokojoe
 
#36 ·
nothing fun about this thread.. This always seems to be the same old same old with this.. hard to find the right size hose for german cars...

IF i were you.. I got out of my way and get a roll of some nice strong braded stuff online.. (as i did)
 
#37 ·
This thread today has some good information on part numbers for the hoses and endcaps ...
> E39 (1997 - 2003) > Engine Smoke Test by BMW (Did they or did they not?)
Plug these numbers into the RealOem website to see which parts they're talking about.

11 61 7 533 400 - Oil Separator Valve
11 15 7 532 629 - Vent Hose
11 61 7 533 398 - Vent Pipe
11 61 7 533 399 - Connecting Line
11 61 7 504 536 - Return Pipe
11-61-7-544-806 - ADJUSTER UNIT (DISA VALVE)
11-61-1-727-176 - Vacuum Cap (7.0 mm)
11-61-1-437-560 - Vacuum Cap (3.5 mm) x2

I believe they can do a smoke test through almost any orifice in the vacuum system because it's all connected.
 
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