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X5 35d vs 35i

20K views 72 replies 27 participants last post by  2011x5d 
#1 ·
Ordered 35d on April 15 and was told it would be available on mid May. Got a call from dealer today and told me the car won't be ready until the first week of June. However, the 35i is sitting on their lot and give me the option to switch to 35i. I know the 35i got more powerful engine and a new 8 speed transmission which gives the 35i better 0-60 performance over 35d and very close gas/mileage.

The car I ordered has identical options as the 35i on their lot. My question is should I switch to the 35i or wait my 35d? :confused:
 
#2 ·
Negative. The 35i will never be close to the 35d in terms of mileage performance. The EPA's estimates for diesel cars materially under reports the true mileage performance of the vehicle (not just for BMW, but for all diesel cars). For example, I am currently getting north of 24mpg in the city alone and easily get +30mpg highway. I have a 335xi coupe as well and that engine eats gas if you don't watch it. I typically get 15 in the city with the 335xi coupe vs the EPA number of 17. For real-world driving, I bet you will be hard pressed to notice which vehicle is faster. The massive torque in the diesel is great around the city and passing on the highways. I would also bet the 35d will hold its value more so than the 35i (diesel cars typically have better residuals than their gas counterparts). Just look at the old 3.0i, they are a dime a dozen.
 
#4 ·
The monster toque is mostly useful when trying to pass and you are at speed already. In city stop & go traffic it moves like, well...........
 
#5 · (Edited)
Questions?
1. What is the cost difference?
2. Are you buying or leasing (if leasing don't pay extra for diesel)
3. How many miles you drive a year?

4. At $4 per gallon for fuel, and a 22 gal tank,a fill up costs $88.
So, let's assume the gas version averages 18 MPG, and you drive 12k miles per year. Over 10 years, you will drive 120,000 miles and will need 6,666 gallons of gasoline which will cost approx. $26k.

Now let's assume you bought the diesel and average 30MPG. Doubtful but will be generous. To drive the same 120,000 miles, you would use 4000 gallons of diesel ($4 per gallon as well). So it would cost you $16k for fuel over 10 years.

So you would save $10k, but it will take you 10 years to save the $10k. Factor in the additional cost of the diesel and maybe you save $6k total.

In the end you would have to drive the diesel at least 5 years to even make any difference at all.

Buy a diesel truck for more torque/towing ability;n ot to save money on gas. You would buy a $15k VW rabbit diesel for that.
 
#7 ·
Questions?
1. What is the cost difference?
2. Are you buying or leasing (if leasing don't pay extra for diesel)
3. How many miles you drive a year?

4. A $4 per gallon for fuel, and a 22 gal tank,a fill up costs $88.
So, let's assume the gas version averages 18 MPG, and you drive 12k miles per year. Over 10 years, you will drive 120,000 miles and will need 6,666 gallons of gasoline which will cost approx. $26k.

Now let's assume you bought the diesel and average 30MPG. Doubtful but will be geneous. To drive the same 120,000 miles, you would use 4000 gallons of diesel ($4 per gallon as well). So it would cost you $16k for fuel over 10 years.

So you would save $10k, but it will take you 10 years to save the $10k. Factor in the additional cost of the disel and maybe you save $6k total.

In the end you would have the drive the diesel at least 5 years to even make any difference at all.

Buy a diesel truck for more torque/towing ability; ot to save money on gas. You would buy a $15k VW rabbit diesel for that.
Given that the 35d is as cheap or cheaper than the 35i, this analysis is mute. Thank you $4,500 eco-credit and $900 government tax credit. Assuming diesel doesn't cost you 30% more than premium fuel, you will be saving money every mile you drive.
 
#10 ·
Thanks for the replies.

I'm buying the car and the cost for the 35d(MSPR 63,125) is almost the same as the 35i(MSPR 61,875). The 35d has the eco credit and the 35i has the spring drive credit. The car is going to have less than 8K miles/yr so you may not even consider the fuel cost difference.

Fun to drive, reliability, and long term maintenance are the things more improtant to me.
 
#14 ·
Let me just add that I tested the 2010 with the older six, to me even that drives better than the diesel. So you can imagine the 2011 with the twin turbo. BMW says it performs just as well as the outgoing 4.8, so essentially you are paying six cylinder prices for 8 cylinder performance. A no brainer right there.
 
#18 ·
Am I missing something here? 6.9 (35d) vs. 6.4 (35i) is not a noticeable difference in real world driving. What is absolutely noticeable is the gas mileage delta. Getting 30mpg on the highway will never get old. Lets be clear, gas will get back to $4 to $5 gallon sooner rather than later.

I own both a 35d and a 335xi coupe. Both engines are great, don't get me wrong. However, if you want a sports car, buy a 335i coupe. If you want a SUV/Truck, diesel engines make more sense. The performance difference between the 35d and the 35i is minimal while getting significantly better mileage.
 
#16 ·
I have a 35D but think I would rather have the new gas model with the 8 speed. Its quicker and gets decent mileage. You won't have to worry with DEF and you won't have to look for diesel stations. I've stopped at a few stations where the diesel nozzle wouldn't even fit the tank. Also the noise of a diesel may bother some, although when I use BP diesel the noise is almost a non factor. The only time I ever notice is outside the vehicle.

Having said all that, I have grown to like the diesel powerband and I'm sure it will get better mileage than the gas version. My wife only gets about 20 mpg around town, but she got less than 14 mpg in our old GL450. I can squeeze out two or three more mpg when I'm driving, but I tend to make a game out of getting good mileage. My mileage figures come from the BMW computer only, I've never actually checked to confirm accuracy.

And what about BP(they make the best diesel that I've found, Exxon is the worst). Will they even be in business in the USA a year from now?
 
#21 ·
Look like the eco credit for the X5d is no more, it's no longer show up under the 'Special Offer' page for the X5d: http://www.bmwusa.com/Standard/Content/Vehicles/2010/X5/xDrive35d/SpecialOffers.aspx
I myself was surprised when they extended it to 2011 MY orders.

With the eco-credit, X5 Diesel vs. gasoline was, for me, pretty much a no-brainer... lower initial acquisition cost, better mileage, better performance, longer range -- why pay more for less performance with worse mpg? But take away the eco-credit, then add-in the improved gasoline engine, and it becomes a 50/50 proposition, IMHO.
 
#24 ·
The diesel is the better, more well-rounded powertrain, without a question.

As for numbers and costs, it depends. Here in Virginia, diesel is noticeably cheaper than premium fuel and on par with mid-grade petrol, so therefore diesel running costs are lower.

(Off-topic, but can someone tell me why E85 is ridiculously cheap when it's a pretty bad idea in the first place?)
 
#28 ·
think about it

twhit

Eco credit aside, the biggest argument for the diesel is its fuel economy, right?

now take a look at the following:
2010 30i 15 City / 21 Hwy
2011 35d 19 City / 26 Hwy

Since the 2011 35i EPA numbers are not yet published, and BMW said in their official press release that its going to have better numbers than the outgoing 30i, and plus the fact that it has an EIGHT speed transmission with a tall final gear for cruising......... its not far fetched at all to guesstimate the EPA numbers of the 35i will be somewhere in the neighborhood of 17 City / 24 Hwy......... or slightly higher even if you don't have a dumbbell of a shoe. So the minuscule savings on fuel is not at all that big a factor anymore now, am I right??

I am not bashing the diesel & for my purpose its just not as good a choice as the gas. But you know what? who cares about what I think or what I have to say? After all I am the loner while the "rest of the world" is on your side. :rofl:

Now, just ask yourself honestly, if BMW takes away the Eco credit and the $1800 tax write off, how many of you will no doubt choose to sign up for the 35i in a heart beat?

Think about it.
 
#34 ·
Eco credit aside, the biggest argument for the diesel is its fuel economy, right?
No, I got mine as it was better performing than the gasoline six cylinder. If the diesel had performed the same or worse than the gasoline six, I would not have purchased it, in spite of it's superior mpg.

Now that they have improved the gasoline six performance, I would have to compare again if I were making a new purchase decision. I would guess a 50/50 chance of me choosing diesel over the new gasoline six if the eco-credit and tax incentive were gone. But again, I'd have to compare the performance.
 
#30 ·
Eco credit aside, the biggest argument for the diesel is its fuel economy, right?

now take a look at the following:
2010 30i 15 City / 21 Hwy
2011 35d 19 City / 26 Hwy

Since the 2011 35i EPA numbers are not yet published, and BMW said in their official press release that its going to have better numbers than the outgoing 30i, and plus the fact that it has an EIGHT speed transmission with a tall final gear for cruising......... its not far fetched at all to guesstimate the EPA numbers of the 35i will be somewhere in the neighborhood of 17 City / 24 Hwy......... or slightly higher even if you don't have a dumbbell of a shoe. So the minuscule savings on fuel is not at all that big a factor anymore now, am I right??
QUOTE]

I think those numbers are a little optimistic. Coming from a 335i (which weighs a MORE than grand less - about 1300-1400 pounds, actually) - I'm lucky to get 26-27 with my foot out of it, with a manual transmission. City is about 22, depending on whether the AC is on or not. If the AC is on, it's more like 20-21.
 
#31 ·
In addition to the MPG debate, I would also argue 20% less CO2 emissions. That's significant over the life of a vehicle.

I'm by no means a "green" fanatic, but I try and do my part. And to be honest, I had no idea what I do now about modern diesel cars a few weeks ago when shopping for a SUV. Knowing more about modern diesel engines, and testing driving the 35d and experiencing the torque...I'm definitely going to be looking for diesel vehicles in the future (caveat - after I take delivery of the 2011 35d and all goes well *knocks on engineered wood in my office*)

Having a Camry Hybrid for 3 years now, going for a full petro oil engine just seems so "stone age" when there are very viable and comparable options. I will be looking forward to the day someone comes out with a diesel/hybrid vehicle.
 
#32 ·
I've figured buying and leasing both the 35i and the 35d, but it's a straight up toss up when it comes to leasing, especially since BMW disallows you to build the gas version exactly the way you want it. In my instance, I would spend more for the X5 Sport Activity, when I can get a sport package on the 35d without having to pay extra for other options. Buy the X5 premium, and I am still left with options I don't want to order - and I can't get the sport package. Go for the base model, and you aren't even allowed to get Comfort Access or Leather. WTF? In a vehicle model with an MSRP of almost 50K, you can't add LEATHER, or a myriad of other options, without spending more? You can do that in a 1 series or 3 series all day long for MUCH less :thumbdwn:
 
#37 ·
I've figured buying and leasing both the 35i and the 35d, but it's a straight up toss up when it comes to leasing, especially since BMW disallows you to build the gas version exactly the way you want it.
Your dealer is messing with you right there. I ordered my 35i Sport exactly to my likings, all the options that I wanted and nothing more.

What's going to get me excited is when they come out with the X5 Electric Hybrid, 40+ mpg on the highway. Keep working on that BMW! :thumbup:
 
#33 ·
The thing that annoys me about the 35d is that the rest of the world is getting a newer replacement, the 40d which is probably THE choice drivetrain for the facelifted X5. Since BMW just certified the old 35d, they see no point in re-certifying a new diesel just 2 years after launch in the NA market. So just the idea of "everyone else is getting something new" would bug me, but not to the point where I'd consider the petrols.

With a petrol, you have to be trying pretty hard to get anything above EPA estimates. But for the sake of comparision, let's look at the European combined cycle stats:

xDrive35i: 13,8 l/100km urban, 10,1 combined............236 g CO²/km
xDrive40d: 10,5 l/100km urban, 7,5 combined...........198 g CO²/km

For non-metric folk, the combined figures are 23,2 US mpg versus 31,3 US mpg. Even allowing for the fact that the older 35d is slightly thirstier, I'd say there's a substantial difference. Plus, the emissions are lower for the diesel than the petrol anyway.
 
#40 ·
Just test drove the 35i and make my decision right away. I will wait my 35d!!

I drove about 5 miles on 405 N and 3 miles local. The 35i has NO way to compare with the 35d as for the fun to drive & fuel economy. The picture shows you the black carbon accumulation on the left exhaust pipe even at 16 miles on the odometer (had 8 miles on it before I took the test drive) and got 12.8 mpg read from the dash computer.

Low speed acceleration better than 30i but no comparison with the 35d. Could not tell the big difference on the 8 speed transmission over 6 speed. Highway speed at 65 - 75m/h, 35d got much better response from the pedal.

If you're on the market of X5 6 cylinder, 35d is your ONLY choice!!
 

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#47 ·
Just test drove the 35i and make my decision right away. I will wait my 35d!!
...
If you're on the market of X5 6 cylinder, 35d is your ONLY choice!!
Thanks for the report. I am in the same dilemma as you are. My 35d is 'awaiting release to carrier' since Apr 15. My dealer has a 35i in his lot. The highway mileage rating of 25 on the new 35i is tempting. So is the 0-60 time, and the new wheels that comes with the 35i premium package that is not offered on the diesel :( and the 8 speed tranny which would make the 35d much better and widen the mpg gap.

Btw, when you drove the diesel, was it broken in? Did you check the MPG reading from the computer under similar driving conditions? I plan to drive both the vehicles at the same time and make my choice. If 35d had the 8 speed and same set of 19" wheels as the 35ip, my choice would have been made. BMW, why do you do this to us?
 
#50 · (Edited)
If they discount the 35i enough take that one.
A new 35d should also have the 8 speed box, they do over here, so they must be running out "Old stock" of tranny's to you guys. Check the Torque figures, diesel to Gas, and you'll know why the Diesel is the right choice when ordering a car.

your reason for wanting a discount would be that the 35d will use less fuel, go further on a tank, and has more torgue, and will require less service visits, and is the fuel of the future.
so if the dealer wants to sell his lot car, he should discount it. remember, it's costing him money sat there, he has already paid for it.

The V8 will sound great !!!
 
#53 ·
Cheap X5 in the states

You guys are really lucky do you know that ?????

the dollar to euro is 1,29 at the moment so the cars over here are about 29% more exspensive. I think even more because an X5 30d here is about 70,000 euros approx 100,000 dollars.

You guys earn more than we do, and your fuel is cheaper. We are paying about $7 a gallon for Diesel and Gas is even higher at about $8,50.
on top of that our income tax is higher than yours, and to be able to register an X5 with more than 215 BHP costs us $6450. Yes, I didn't add a zero. Yet these cars have a 6 month waiting list here. An X6M or X5M costs 113,000 and 118,000 respectively and I'm talking euros.
in Dollars between 145 and $155,000 that's an awful lot of cash for a Joy ride.
So we buy the cheap version X5 30d and chip tune them......

sometimes I really regret that I left the states !!!!!!!!!

Still, our Crisis wasn't quite so hard as yours, and in this market, it doesn't seem to have had any real affect. Check out BMWs sale figures, They just keep going up. They can't seem to do anything wrong. The new 5 series is sold out until October already.
 
#55 ·
You guys are really lucky do you know that ?????

the dollar to euro is 1,29 at the moment so the cars over here are about 29% more exspensive. I think even more because an X5 30d here is about 70,000 euros approx 100,000 dollars.

You guys earn more than we do, and your fuel is cheaper. We are paying about $7 a gallon for Diesel and Gas is even higher at about $8,50.
on top of that our income tax is higher than yours, and to be able to register an X5 with more than 215 BHP costs us $6450. Yes, I didn't add a zero. Yet these cars have a 6 month waiting list here. An X6M or X5M costs 113,000 and 118,000 respectively and I'm talking euros.
in Dollars between 145 and $155,000 that's an awful lot of cash for a Joy ride.
So we buy the cheap version X5 30d and chip tune them......

sometimes I really regret that I left the states !!!!!!!!!

Still, our Crisis wasn't quite so hard as yours, and in this market, it doesn't seem to have had any real affect. Check out BMWs sale figures, They just keep going up. They can't seem to do anything wrong. The new 5 series is sold out until October already.
Well for starters, your prices include VAT and most other fees like registration. The price you see in the US doesn't include any of that.

Secondly, the US market is competitive and if BMW fails to price within the market range, nobody will buy them. The US market, although the second biggest auto market in the world, is one of the least profitable.

Someone has to pay for all those services and public goods y'all get in Europe. The VAT is what, 21% in Belgium? Plus, your budgets are more balanced. In the US we get mediocre services that really aren't paid for.

A fair number of folks in Europe lucky enough to work in the US do purchase BMWs here and import them back to Europe. Even after import duties and slight conversion fees (mostly reprogramming headlamps), they come out ahead.
 
#58 ·
I've always wondered about this. Would be interesting to see what the sales volume breakdown is for different model lines between US and EU. I'd love to see the demographics of these sales in the EU.

I know that we have the cheapest BMWs in the world, with the profit margins being as slim as they are in the US, it's no wonder we get excluded on all the other optional goodies that EU and the rest of the world get access to. BMW Individual is still something that isn't coordinated well in the US, and with our consumer protection laws, its probably something that becomes a real headache. You can still walk away from a BMW Individual car in the US, leaving the dealer to take the hit.

I would love to see BMW Individual line cross over in the US for the X5s since we already are seeing them for the Ms, 6, 7 series.
 
#59 ·
Keep in mind that company cars are somewhat more popular, at least in Germany. It's a way to increase the benefits of a job without worrying about taxes on higher income.
 
#63 ·
This might be redundant info, but I saw a 2011 X5 35i at my dealer today. The window sticker showed 17 mpg city and 25 highway. Also the vehicle had beautiful 19" rims as standard w/o the sport package. They were some sort of Y-spoke design, different than the X5 50i.
 
#64 ·
I dropped my 550i off for service and they gave me an X5d to drive. I am very impressed with it. I think the steering is a bit light at higher speeds and to heavy during parking. The D pulls and it pulls. I agree on highway, its great power for passing. Pulling away from a stop, there is slight hesitation because its a D. a bit louder around town from the engine, but on the highway i think most of the noice is from the tires.

Overall, a great car. If I had to choose between the 6 gas and the D, I would choose the D. I am not sure of my choice if it was between the 5.0 and the D.

What a service loaner though!!
 
#65 ·
I think part of the hesitation is that it starts in 2nd gear as well. I noticed a loaner E92 328 doing the same thing, as well as an x3 during a test drive. My 335i is a 6MT, so it drove me nuts starting in 2nd.
 
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