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Old 04-15-2017, 07:09 PM
Sforsgren Sforsgren is offline
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Manual transmission on 430

I just recently got a 2017 430 with manual transmission. However, I am very disappointed in the way it is working. In all of my prior BMWs, I was able to downshift into second gear and when releasing the clutch, the car would slow. With this car, attempting to downshift to second gear results in the RPMs going significantly higher and the car does not slow when the clutch is released. I'm not sure what the point of a manual transmission is if you can't downshift. Any thoughts or insights? Thank you in advance.


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Old 04-15-2017, 07:11 PM
eljefe68 eljefe68 is offline
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What you could be experiencing is the rev matching feature. My car is also a 6MT, and I definitely get compression braking when I downshift.
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Old 04-15-2017, 07:13 PM
Sforsgren Sforsgren is offline
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Is there a way to turn it off? I don't understand the idea of a manual transmission that doesn't allow you to drive the way all prior ones worked. How do you downshift? Interestingly, I can downshift to first with no RPM increase but not to second. Really dislike what they have done here. What is the benefit? Thanks much.


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Old 04-16-2017, 05:02 AM
porsche driver porsche driver is offline
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Why is it, everyone one wants to turn their Beamer into a "sports car".

Simply accept it for what it is.... A "quick" daily driver... Not a "fast" sports car.

I will confess, It took me some time to get used to the "rev matching" feature in my 340.

However, once you begin to see the car as a as a "quick" and comfortable vehicle.

The urge to make it something it is not, evaporates.

Now, before everyone gets in an uproar... "M's" are a different animal all together.
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Old 04-16-2017, 07:35 AM
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It's definitely the rev matching that prevents the dramatic "braking" that you are accustomed to. However, that "braking" comes at the expense of burning off clutch material, so downshift braking (not compression braking) is generally not advised as it burns a fairly expensive wear item and is generally rough on the car.
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Old 04-16-2017, 09:37 AM
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Originally Posted by mazdamx594 View Post
It's definitely the rev matching that prevents the dramatic "braking" that you are accustomed to. However, that "braking" comes at the expense of burning off clutch material, so downshift braking (not compression braking) is generally not advised as it burns a fairly expensive wear item and is generally rough on the car.
Downshifting without rev matching, whether done automatically or by the driver, will cause the car to slow down rather violently. Not only does this put strain on the drive train it unsettles the car and causes a rapid transfer of weight to the front tires. If the car is near the limits of adhesion it can result in a spin out (Trailing Clutch Oversteer).
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Old 04-19-2017, 07:33 AM
eljefe68 eljefe68 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by porsche driver View Post
Why is it, everyone one wants to turn their Beamer into a "sports car".

Simply accept it for what it is.... A "quick" daily driver... Not a "fast" sports car.

I will confess, It took me some time to get used to the "rev matching" feature in my 340.

However, once you begin to see the car as a as a "quick" and comfortable vehicle.

The urge to make it something it is not, evaporates.

Now, before everyone gets in an uproar... "M's" are a different animal all together.
Hard to turn a Beamer into a sports car, since a Beamer is a motorcycle.

Sure, our non-M Bimmers are not sports cars as Porsches are sports cars - Cayenne and Macan excepted. Yes, we use are cars as daily drivers, but a "quick daily driver" could be an Altima V6, Accord V6, or Fusion Sport. Our 3s, especially Sport Line or M-Sport, are more than those.
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Old 04-19-2017, 07:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eljefe68 View Post
Hard to turn a Beamer into a sports car, since a Beamer is a motorcycle.

Sure, our non-M Bimmers are not sports cars as Porsches are sports cars - Cayenne and Macan excepted. Yes, we use are cars as daily drivers, but a "quick daily driver" could be an Altima V6, Accord V6, or Fusion Sport. Our 3s, especially Sport Line or M-Sport, are more than those.
Don't forget the Panamera, closer to a tank than a sports car.
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Old 04-19-2017, 08:13 AM
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Originally Posted by Sforsgren View Post
Is there a way to turn it off? I don't understand the idea of a manual transmission that doesn't allow you to drive the way all prior ones worked. How do you downshift? Interestingly, I can downshift to first with no RPM increase but not to second. Really dislike what they have done here. What is the benefit? Thanks much.
It may be possible to disable the automatic rev matching via coding. Refer to these threads:

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=912295
http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...=879449&page=2
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Old 04-19-2017, 08:19 AM
Robert A Robert A is offline
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It's not due to rev matching, it's a characteristic of that specific engine. For some reason, the revs tend to hang at higher rpms when the throttle is released. I noticed this in a manual 330i I drove, as well as a 430i GC Steptronic that I had for a few days.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Sforsgren View Post
I just recently got a 2017 430 with manual transmission. However, I am very disappointed in the way it is working. In all of my prior BMWs, I was able to downshift into second gear and when releasing the clutch, the car would slow. With this car, attempting to downshift to second gear results in the RPMs going significantly higher and the car does not slow when the clutch is released. I'm not sure what the point of a manual transmission is if you can't downshift. Any thoughts or insights? Thank you in advance.


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Old 04-19-2017, 09:18 AM
Kafkaesque328 Kafkaesque328 is offline
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I drove a friend's 340i with the 6mt and auto rev matching feature. I was skeptical going in but I ended up loving it. For a daily driver, driven around an urban area, it is a brilliant feature.
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Old 04-19-2017, 09:44 AM
RockyM RockyM is offline
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Originally Posted by eljefe68 View Post
Hard to turn a Beamer into a sports car, since a Beamer is a motorcycle.
You beat me to it.

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Old 04-19-2017, 10:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sforsgren View Post
I just recently got a 2017 430 with manual transmission. However, I am very disappointed in the way it is working. In all of my prior BMWs, I was able to downshift into second gear and when releasing the clutch, the car would slow. With this car, attempting to downshift to second gear results in the RPMs going significantly higher and the car does not slow when the clutch is released. I'm not sure what the point of a manual transmission is if you can't downshift. Any thoughts or insights? Thank you in advance.


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I haven't driven with the rev matching featuring you have, but I notice that depending on what speed I downshift into first it will sometimes hang without feeling the compression slow me down. I always rev match and it almost always slows me down, but there are times it just coasts afterward.
Have you always rev matched in previous vehicles? Or do you just let the clutch out slow? As mazdamx pointed out - that will cause severe premature clutch failure over time.


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Old 04-19-2017, 11:36 AM
Mark K Mark K is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sforsgren View Post
I just recently got a 2017 430 with manual transmission. However, I am very disappointed in the way it is working. In all of my prior BMWs, I was able to downshift into second gear and when releasing the clutch, the car would slow. With this car, attempting to downshift to second gear results in the RPMs going significantly higher and the car does not slow when the clutch is released. I'm not sure what the point of a manual transmission is if you can't downshift. Any thoughts or insights? Thank you in advance.


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OK, let us go by Cliff Notes and be very brief and to the point.

1. Car is rev matching BEFORE you can slowly engage the clutch to use engine to slow down.

2. Car has brakes for a reason, I would suggest using those. Much cheaper than either clutch or engine.

3. Compression braking can be fun, especially on cars that have crappy brakes, that weigh 2,000 pounds and that have very little torque. 430i F30 is none of those. I had '90s Euro super compact hatches that fit the above criteria and had blast doing it without busting the clutch. F30 BMW is not going to fare that well.

Without being snotty, ask someone who regurarly drives on a racetrack to show you how to properly drive MT and, above all, EXPLAIN and demonstrate WHY you should do it that way.

Good luck!

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Last edited by Mark K; 04-19-2017 at 11:37 AM.
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Old 04-19-2017, 11:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Mark K View Post
ask someone who regurarly drives on a racetrack to show you how to properly drive MT and, above all, EXPLAIN and demonstrate WHY you should do it that way.

I am grateful to my BMW CCA HPDE instructors for teaching me theory and helping me practice techniques for getting the most from a manual transmission car. I'm still practicing the heel and toe maneuver every opportunity I get in my F30. For me, this has been the most difficult manual transmission driving technique to master.
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Old 04-19-2017, 12:27 PM
jparnes1 jparnes1 is online now
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[QUOTE=Mark K;10122937]OK, let us go by Cliff Notes and be very brief and to the point.

1. Car is rev matching BEFORE you can slowly engage the clutch to use engine to slow down.

2. Car has brakes for a reason, I would suggest using those. Much cheaper than either clutch or engine.

^THIS
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Old 04-19-2017, 12:33 PM
Robert A Robert A is offline
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I think the OP has a valid characteristic that is specific to his engine that should be addressed. I've driven his setup and know what he's talking about. It's not a matter of not knowing how to drive a MT.

[QUOTE=jparnes1;10123021]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark K View Post
OK, let us go by Cliff Notes and be very brief and to the point.

1. Car is rev matching BEFORE you can slowly engage the clutch to use engine to slow down.

2. Car has brakes for a reason, I would suggest using those. Much cheaper than either clutch or engine.

^THIS
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Old 04-19-2017, 12:38 PM
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[QUOTE=Robert A;10123034]I think the OP has a valid characteristic that is specific to his engine that should be addressed. I've driven his setup and know what he's talking about. It's not a matter of not knowing how to drive a MT.

Fair enough. I can't engine brake in my 340 and Z4 either and I always assumed it's because the torque overwhelms the transmission's ability to slow the car down.
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Old 04-19-2017, 12:44 PM
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I think the OP has a valid characteristic that is specific to his engine that should be addressed. I've driven his setup and know what he's talking about. It's not a matter of not knowing how to drive a MT.
Could you be more specific? OP was complaining of car not slowing down when he engages 2nd gear. If downshift is rev-matched, the car will not slow down nowhere close on engine compression as it will whrn you release the clutch slowly from almost idle.

Are you telling me that B48 somehow magically knows that you are about to slow down with engine compression and will raise rpm to prevent it but only in 2nd gear? What happens if you engage the second gear, then keep the clutch down for 3-4 seconds after that and then release the clutch? Still no compression braking?



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Old 04-19-2017, 12:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark K View Post
Could you be more specific? OP was complaining of car not slowing down when he engages 2nd gear. If downshift is rev-matched, the car will not slow down nowhere close on engine compression as it will whrn you release the clutch slowly from almost idle.

Are you telling me that B48 somehow magically knows that you are about to slow down with engine compression and will raise rpm to prevent it but only in 2nd gear? What happens if you engage the second gear, then keep the clutch down for 3-4 seconds after that and then release the clutch? Still no compression braking?



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The 340 has automatic rev matching so yes, the second you shift into a lower gear and before you release the clutch, the rpms go up. In all gears, not just 2d.
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Old 04-19-2017, 03:01 PM
Jhilton68 Jhilton68 is offline
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Is the rev-matching feature not present in the 335 with a manual transmission? My car definitely slows down when I downshift. I go from 6 to 4 then 4 to 2 or 3 ... I never do it dramatically so the RPM's jump up too much or the car gets squirrelly. If the clutch is disengaged (not depressed), I'm pretty sure you're not wearing it out.

I have always downshifted when driving a manual car or when riding / racing dirt bikes.


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Old 04-19-2017, 06:14 PM
Michael Schott Michael Schott is offline
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Is the rev-matching feature not present in the 335 with a manual transmission? My car definitely slows down when I downshift. I go from 6 to 4 then 4 to 2 or 3 ... I never do it dramatically so the RPM's jump up too much or the car gets squirrelly. If the clutch is disengaged (not depressed), I'm pretty sure you're not wearing it out.

I have always downshifted when driving a manual car or when riding / racing dirt bikes.


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The rev matching feature was not part of the 2014 model year.
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Old 04-19-2017, 06:26 PM
Jhilton68 Jhilton68 is offline
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The rev matching feature was not part of the 2014 model year.


Good, because it sounds like I wouldn't like this feature.


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Old 04-20-2017, 07:50 AM
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Properly executed down shifts should include rev matching. Auto rev matching will rev match better than manual rev matching just as a DCT will execute gear shifts faster than an MT.

The question is whether you want to rev match (or operate the clutch in the case of a DCT) yourself.

When I am driving an MT I like to heel and toe downshifts. I realize that there is no advantage of heel and toe over auto rev match - it is strictly a matter of preference. That being said I don't understand why auto rev match on BMWs can not be turned off in all modes.
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Old 04-22-2017, 03:39 AM
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Downshifting without rev matching, whether done automatically or by the driver, will cause the car to slow down rather violently. Not only does this put strain on the drive train it unsettles the car and causes a rapid transfer of weight to the front tires. If the car is near the limits of adhesion it can result in a spin out (Trailing Clutch Oversteer).


Clutch kick!


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