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  #51  
Old 04-20-2017, 07:45 PM
mrswh mrswh is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ard View Post
Last car I paid cash (well, check) and we had a bit of a 'situation' with finance over my SSN. We went round and round. 'we ask everyone' 'its policy' 'in case the check bounces' (ill come back when the money clears). In the end they took my personal check for 67k.

Oh, if you DO pay off the note too soon, the dealer gets charged back that $350. Something like 3,4,5 months. Whatever. You can decide when to pay it off based on how nice they are.

Finally, I do recommend people get a PPI on ALL used cars, even a CPO. At the very least, you should not sign a single document until you have the CPO checklist, completed and filled out- and signed. And the carfax history.

Here is the checklist:

https://www.cstatic-images.com/image...inspection.pdf

Here is the actual guidelines: https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...5VTGSscdmOknew


note that the total tread dept on ALL tires, at ALL locations across the tire much be over 3mm from the top of the wear bars- total tread depth over 5mm. This is 50%. Some dealers play games with this number. Likewise, all brake pads need to be over 50% too.

I believe this checklist says 'this document to be given to the new owner' right on the face.
Thank you, this is good stuff. I already told the sales guy no go on the SSN and he didn't care. Probably figured he'd let me argue with the finance manager instead. There is zero reason they need my SSN if I am not financing. I already offered to bring a cashier's check and was told a personal check is fine.

What is a PPI? I do have the carfax history, as well as a vehicle service history, but not a completed CPO checklist. I will ask for that.

Last edited by mrswh; 04-20-2017 at 09:42 PM. Reason: typo
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  #52  
Old 04-20-2017, 08:07 PM
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Yinzer Yinzer is offline
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PPI is pre purchase inspection. Recommended to be done at a trusted independent shop or Bmw dealer that is not involved with the sale. Cpo cars can still have issues that the selling dealer won't disclose.
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  #53  
Old 04-20-2017, 10:01 PM
ard ard is offline
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There was just a recent thread somewhere that a buyer of a fresh CPO got a 'brake pad service' notice like 5k after he bought the car.

SInce the brakes are supposed to be AT LEAST 50%, it is virtually impossible the pads where meeting the CPO limit when he bought it, then round down 50% in 5k miles.

Dealer says 'tough crap'..BMWNA says 'this is between you and the dealer'.

I had another story where a CPO car had 'leaks' and wet carpeting. After much diagnosis the dealer told the owner "not covered by BMW'- turns out the car had had repairs to the A pillar (where the windshield and door and dash all meet, and they were done exceedingly poorly, parts misaligned. BMW refused to cover- dealer refused to cover, saying 'hey we missed it on the CPO- it happens'.

I usually recommend that a decent car guy just go through the CPO Guidelines document and make sure it's OK. Oil leaks, bad body repair, paint issues, etc, etc. 30 mintes, $100. Ideally you find someone close to the dealer- drive it over prior to closing the purchase.

Anyway- LOTS of people don't do this, and at least it IS a CPO. I would eyeball the tire tread, review the checklist- refuse to proceed without it- and if anything is questionable or blank, demand it be addressed.
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  #54  
Old 04-21-2017, 10:29 AM
mrswh mrswh is offline
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Well, that is disturbing. I will see if I can get a PPI from one of the other dealers in town. That is, if I ever find out when I the car will be ready. On Saturday I was told Tues or Weds. Today is Friday and I haven't heard a peep. I have left messages for three different people as well as an email, and nobody is responding. I hope this car lasts forever because the car buying experience is so not fun.
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  #55  
Old 04-21-2017, 11:11 AM
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TXPearl TXPearl is online now
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Be patient....maybe they'll drop the price another $2,500.
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  #56  
Old 04-21-2017, 11:53 AM
mrswh mrswh is offline
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Originally Posted by TXPearl View Post
Be patient....maybe they'll drop the price another $2,500.
Haha! I thought about that yesterday. If it's once a week, it should happen again this weekend!
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  #57  
Old 04-21-2017, 12:33 PM
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quackbury quackbury is offline
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My sister-in-law is an Episcopal priest and fond of saying "listen to God's signs in your life." As much as you like this particular car, God may be telling you to walk away from the deal.
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  #58  
Old 04-21-2017, 03:40 PM
Jerseyal Jerseyal is offline
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Originally Posted by quackbury View Post
My sister-in-law is an Episcopal priest and fond of saying "listen to God's signs in your life." As much as you like this particular car, God may be telling you to walk away from the deal.
I would walk away, OP. A transaction like this should be smooth. I feel like you're getting the run around. something just doesn't feel right. Trust your instincts.
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  #59  
Old 04-21-2017, 03:43 PM
Alpine300ZHP Alpine300ZHP is offline
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Originally Posted by quackbury View Post
My sister-in-law is an Episcopal priest and fond of saying "listen to God's signs in your life." As much as you like this particular car, God may be telling you to walk away from the deal.


I agree...


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  #60  
Old 04-21-2017, 06:26 PM
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Again, to me, the dealer seemed shady from the start
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  #61  
Old 04-21-2017, 06:32 PM
mikeriley mikeriley is offline
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Originally Posted by mrswh View Post
Haha! I thought about that yesterday. If it's once a week, it should happen again this weekend!
can you tell us why this particular x5 is so desirable to you? not trying to be critical of it at all but aren't there a ton of these around? were there particular options on it that are really rare that you really want?

walk away. there are so many of them you can find a similar vehicle without the slime factor.
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  #62  
Old 04-21-2017, 08:18 PM
1968BMW2800 1968BMW2800 is online now
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I'm gonna be a contrarian here. I think the OP has hung tough and negotiated a good deal on a car she wants.

The BMW Center, which is part of a mega-corporate chain of dealers, knows how to deliver customer satisfaction.

The OP clearly has the skills to make them do it. I'd ride this pony a little farther down the trail unless something really funky happens with the certification or the final contract phase.

The CPO certification will happen and, if an abundance of caution is desired, an independent inspection can satisfy any lingering concerns.

Lets face it, a used car ALWAYS carries additional risks. The best one can hope for is anything obvious can be detected.

But BMW will stand behind its CPO products should issues arise. Especially if they are dealing with an owner who can talk that attorney talk, nicely, of course.

I think the impulse to walk away from this deal is understandable because the CA is not what we are used to dealing with (we've been spoiled by the exceptional professionalism of Bimmerfest CA's). But many of the car deals I've done over the years required dealings with less-than-desirable salespeople. I always focused on the outcomes I wanted and it's usually worked out well.

A minor additional point if I may -- this can be a phase of the process wherein intentional foot-dragging by the dealer is used to wear down a customer -- it's been known to be used to "soften up" the customer. I always counsel customers to remember time is on your side, no matter what the dealer does to try to make you feel otherwise.
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  #63  
Old 04-21-2017, 08:33 PM
mrswh mrswh is offline
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I don't know . . . I feel like buying a car is always annoying, but these guys really take the cake. So last Saturday, I gave them the deposit and told them I will pick up the car and pay the balance when the windows are tinted and the trunk latch is fixed.

Fast forward to today. Six days later. I get a call from someone in the service department asking when I can bring in my X5 to get the windows tinted.

Where is the face palm emoji?
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  #64  
Old 04-21-2017, 08:37 PM
mrswh mrswh is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeriley View Post
can you tell us why this particular x5 is so desirable to you? not trying to be critical of it at all but aren't there a ton of these around? were there particular options on it that are really rare that you really want?

walk away. there are so many of them you can find a similar vehicle without the slime factor.
There are two other similar cars within 50ish miles that I would be interested in, but they are priced WAY higher - after this most recent price drop, to the tune of $5000. One of them is at a no haggle dealer that honestly will. not. negotiate. The other one I could try to negotiate but not sure I could get them anywhere near this price. It did occur to me that I could use the Sonic price as a negotiating tool, but then I would have to not only negotiate a new deal but unwind the current one which sounds like a pain in the rear.

I don't know, though, it's getting ridiculous, isn't it?
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  #65  
Old 04-23-2017, 10:37 AM
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tturedraider tturedraider is offline
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  #66  
Old 04-23-2017, 11:17 AM
1968BMW2800 1968BMW2800 is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tturedraider View Post
Don't give up yet.
I agree.

The OP has reported a productive contact with the SM.

A simple follow up call to the SM with a simple question: "I'm looking forward to the delivery on my BMW. When would be a good time for me to plan to come in and take delivery?"

And, of course, once that question is answered, a simple restatement of the understood terms and a request that the SM be available at delivery time, just to make sure all goes as planned.

"Great, I'm looking forward to seeing you on the Xth of April at X:XX AM to take delivery, The only issues were the window tint and the latch repair which I understand you will see to before delivery happens. If you can give me the exact amount due, I'll have the check prepared. It should be $xx,xxx for the car plus tags, taxes and fees, less the $2,500 deposit you already have. Also, fax or email me a copy of the completed CPO inspection. That would be great."

And done.... hopefully.
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  #67  
Old 04-23-2017, 05:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1968BMW2800 View Post


"Great, I'm looking forward to seeing you on the Xth of April at X:XX AM to take delivery, The only issues were the window tint and the latch repair which I understand you will see to before delivery happens. If you can give me the exact amount due, I'll have the check prepared. It should be $xx,xxx for the car plus tags, taxes and fees, less the $2,500 deposit you already have. Also, fax or email me a copy of the completed CPO inspection checklist which is required by BMWUSA to be given to the buyer. That would be great."

And done.... hopefully.
Edit

This is an odd one. Dealers DO NOT delay closings.... I'm getting a chitty vibe.

Then again, it could have been a 5 hr closing and mrshw is out drowning her sorrows!
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Last edited by ard; 04-23-2017 at 06:00 PM.
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  #68  
Old 04-23-2017, 07:45 PM
1968BMW2800 1968BMW2800 is online now
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Originally Posted by ard View Post

Then again, it could have been a 5 hr closing and mrshw is out drowning her sorrows!
I'm hoping she's out driving her new BMW and is having too much fun to bother to update us.
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  #69  
Old 04-24-2017, 07:04 AM
mrswh mrswh is offline
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Originally Posted by 1968BMW2800 View Post
I'm hoping she's out driving her new BMW and is having too much fun to bother to update us.
Nope! I guess I will be inquiring today. I'm still having fun driving my 4-series convertible though (I have three days left on the lease).

I don't know why the dealer is dragging feet . . . maybe because they're not making any money on the deal? Regardless, I need to get on this today - I don't want to be at their mercy when my lease ends on Weds and I'm faced with carlessness.

Last edited by mrswh; 04-24-2017 at 08:32 AM. Reason: grrr autocorrect
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  #70  
Old 04-24-2017, 07:15 AM
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quackbury quackbury is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrswh View Post
Nope! I guess I will be inquiring today. I'm still having fun driving my 4-series convertible though (I have three days left on the lease).

I don't know why the dealer is dragging feet . . . maybe because they're not making any money on the deal? Regardless, I need to get on this today - I don't want to be at their mercy when my lease ends on Weds and I'm faced with carelessness.
Call BMWFS, explain the situation, and ask for a courtesy extension on the lease. They should give you 10 days, no questions asked. That puts you in a better position, regardless of whether you walk away from the X5 deal.

I've never known a dealer that wasn't in a hurry to get cars out the door before the last day of the month. The fact these folks don't have any sense of urgency certainly has my Spidey sense up.

Remember, you do have leverage since you can ding them on the CSI survey. I wouldn't be afraid to mention that in your next conversation with the sales manager. I imagine that CPO works similar to new car sales, in that the CSI score drives part of the CA's comp, and the dealership's profit. Club them over the head with your the CSI, like they were baby seals.
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  #71  
Old 04-24-2017, 08:13 AM
mrswh mrswh is offline
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Originally Posted by quackbury View Post
Call BMWFS, explain the situation, and ask for a courtesy extension on the lease. They should give you 10 days, no questions asked. That puts you in a better position, regardless of whether you walk away from the X5 deal.

I've never known a dealer that wasn't in a hurry to get cars out the door before the last day of the month. The fact these folks don't have any sense of urgency certainly has my Spidey sense up.

Remember, you do have leverage since you can ding them on the CSI survey. I wouldn't be afraid to mention that in your next conversation with the sales manager. I imagine that CPO works similar to new car sales, in that the CSI score drives part of the CA's comp, and the dealership's profit. Club them over the head with your the CSI, like they were baby seals.
Great advice, thank you! I didn't know I could do that. Thought I could only get it extended if I had a new BMW on order. Just called and I did get an additional seven days with no charge. Phew.

I am close to feeling sour enough about this whole thing that I'm not even sure I want this car anymore. I may go see if I can work a deal with another dealer. It may be worth it even if I have to pay more. I just don't trust these people at all now.
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  #72  
Old 04-24-2017, 09:00 AM
mrswh mrswh is offline
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I found a couple of possibilities at CarMax . . . if I find one there, do you guys think I can just cancel the deal with the local dealer and walk away? I mean, it's only been nine days since I gave them the deposit . . .
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  #73  
Old 04-24-2017, 09:36 AM
jjrandorin jjrandorin is offline
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Originally Posted by mrswh View Post
I found a couple of possibilities at CarMax . . . if I find one there, do you guys think I can just cancel the deal with the local dealer and walk away? I mean, it's only been nine days since I gave them the deposit . . .
I think everyone who is following this thread is wondering "WTF" in relation to the dealer and the car you want.

I am wondering if there is something else wrong with it and they dont want to tell you (and are scrambling to fix it before they have to tell you.. so they can say "it had XXX problem but we addressed that).

Every fiber of my being is telling me that you should walk away from that dealer and that car, and yours is too (in my opinion). You know you should (in your head) but your heart is trying to make you hold on to it when there are all these warning signs.

I would get my money back from them and move on (and I certainly would not buy anything else from them, nor would I go to them for service... if they treated me the way they are treating you that is).

I sometimes draw a line in the sand over such things. I am not a female, but I AM a minority and many times get treated differently because of it when shopping for luxury goods. Not "look at the room in the trunk for all the groceries you need to buy" but a "different" stereotype gets applied to me sometimes.

Anyway, this isnt about me, its about you, and you should walk away and find another car in my opinion.
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Last edited by jjrandorin; 04-24-2017 at 10:29 AM.
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  #74  
Old 04-24-2017, 10:06 AM
rhite95 rhite95 is offline
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Originally Posted by jjrandorin View Post
i think everyone who is following this thread is wondering "wtf" in relation to the dealer and the car you want.

I am wondering if there is something else wrong with it and they dont want to tell you (and are scrambling to fix it before they have to tell you.. So they can say "it had xxx problem but we addressed that).

Every fiber of my being is telling me that you should walk away from that dealer and that car, and yours is too (in my opinion). You know you should (in your head) but your heart is trying to make you hold on to it when there are all these warning signs.

I would get my money back from them and move on (and i certainly would not buy anything else from them, nor would i go to them for service... If they treated me the way they are treating you that is).

I sometimes draw a line in the sand over such things. I am not a female, but i am a minority and many times get treated differently because of it when shopping for luxury goods. Not "look at the room in the truck for all the groceries you need to buy" but a "different" stereotype gets applied to me sometimes.

Anyway, this isnt about me, its about you, and you should walk away and find another car in my opinion.
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  #75  
Old 04-24-2017, 11:02 AM
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tturedraider tturedraider is offline
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I'm still the one who says don't quit yet. Most situations like this are better handled in person than through phone calls and emails. I say make some time and go to the dealership. I'm sure their lack of urgency is affected by the fact they are holding your $2,500 deposit. In their mind you're not very likely to go somewhere else.

Don't ask them when they'll have the car ready. Call the GM and tell him/her you're coming to get the car. In this business nobody gets in a hurry taking care of a passive customer.

Tell them to forget tinting the windows. Get it done yourself. With an appointment at a tinting shop it'll probably take less than an hour. Use www.llumar.com or www.formulaone.com, Pinnacle series, Llumar's ceramic brand. 35%.
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Last edited by tturedraider; 04-24-2017 at 11:04 AM.
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