POLL: Am I The Only One Who Likes Their F30? - Page 3 - Bimmerfest - BMW Forums



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F30 / F31 / F32 / F33 / F34 / F36 (2012 - current)
The sixth generation BMW 3 Series Sedan F30/F31/F34 and the first first generation 4 Series Coupe F32/F33/F36. Get the latest 3 and 4 series pricing from our ordering and pricing guide sticky thread.

View Poll Results: Am I The Only One Who Likes Their F30?
Yes, You're the only one. You're on your second F30. Whats wrong with you? 7 6.42%
NO, I love my car. Its all a bunch of hype! 88 80.73%
Sort of but I can't wait until my lease is up so I can jump ship. 8 7.34%
Bro, do you even Cadillac? 6 5.50%
Voters: 109. You may not vote on this poll

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  #51  
Old 04-08-2017, 11:20 PM
namelessman namelessman is online now
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Originally Posted by Michael Schott View Post
His description is not 100% accurate. There is still a belt that turns the rotary motion of the electric motor into the linear motion of the steering rack. And I would argue that simpler isn't always better. More efficient yes, Better at actual steering, I guess it depends on your definition.
The current gen of EPS does have belt driven components, since that's only used during steering, the wear and tear of that belt should be a lot less than that the power steering belt in HPS.
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  #52  
Old 04-09-2017, 07:20 AM
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Originally Posted by Kafkaesque328 View Post
Serious poll. I am starting to think I am the only one based on how so many people talking on here. Bitching about the 'numb' steering, about the infotainment, the Nav, the suspension, you name it.
Lots of peeps bitching about stuff after they made the choice to buy or lease. Either fix or get rid of it.
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  #53  
Old 04-09-2017, 07:57 AM
Michael Schott Michael Schott is offline
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Originally Posted by namelessman View Post
The current gen of EPS does have belt driven components, since that's only used during steering, the wear and tear of that belt should be a lot less than that the power steering belt in HPS.
As I intimated above, I really could care less. I am willing to give up some life and fuel economy to get the steering BMW is famous for. BMW's iteration of EPS is a disaster and they don't seem to care.
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  #54  
Old 04-09-2017, 09:41 AM
namelessman namelessman is online now
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Some said BMW engineers quoted that customers want isolation when journalists asked about numb steering at G30 launch events.

After 45k on this F30 EPS, my feeling is that the steering feedback is still there, but not as raw as HPS, so drivers need to process differently.

The significant drop in aligning torque(which is related to linear force?) probably can be good for steering rack and drive belt reliability too. That is a good thing as that steering rack is not cheap to fix(probably has to replaced as one unit).
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  #55  
Old 04-09-2017, 10:34 AM
Kafkaesque328 Kafkaesque328 is offline
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I have just never had much of a problem with the steering in this car. As a daily driver around the city, parking lots, etc. it is significantly easier than the E90 steering which in my opinion felt great at speed but sort of too much at low speeds. I really loved the steering in my GTI. I think the Mk6 still had hydraulic steering but I could be mistaken. Steering feel in that car blew away my F30's, but again, I just don't have much of an issue with it. Ive driven this car at high speeds on twisting back roads (Angeles crest, Big Tujunga canyon, Mulholland, Topanga) and in sport or sport + mode, it is just fine albeit, the weight feels pretty artificial. Still, in terms of performance, it is very precise and driving in comfort to and from work etc. is a breeze.
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  #56  
Old 04-09-2017, 12:10 PM
namelessman namelessman is online now
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F30 EPS has been popular with female drivers, and even first time drivers, in the family. The EPS is light enough yet responsive enough in DD and non-limit spirited driving. The feedback is not that great at limits but with experience of the tires + car the drivers usually develop the gut feel anyway.

Another interesting data point is, a coworker with a 10-year A3 hatchback commented that my 328i has better steering feedback than his A3(with HPS), while the A3 has better chassis feedback than 328i(that makes sense given A3's weight).
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  #57  
Old 04-10-2017, 04:26 PM
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Electric steering does not have to feel numb as it does n the F30. In this class, the Jaguar XE incorporates electric steering with superb feel. BMW deliberately chose to dampen the feel.
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  #58  
Old 04-10-2017, 06:08 PM
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I don't have much issue with the steering in this car. Is it as "I just drove over a pebble" sensitive like my old E46, or go-kart like? No. But I enjoy it nevertheless. I still look for reasons to drive this car, like my older BMW's, The only issue I may have, oddly enough, is it is competent to the point of boring. Everything seems easy. But, when my wife and I got back from an errand this afternoon I parked in the garage and firmly blipped the throttle. The engine roared a bit and the exhaust "blatted" and popped, a subtle reminder this car beat the crap out of everything else in our price point we test drove. Carry on with the angst but I'm pretty satisfied
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  #59  
Old 04-11-2017, 06:27 AM
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Originally Posted by motorwerkeman View Post
That's my beef though - my F30 feels less nimble, while riding more harshly than my brother's ATS.

It's a great car and very practical in daily use, but I am not as thrilled with it as I thought I would be.
That's my #1 disappointment--suspension. You get the heaving ride of a large luxury car while also feeling the harshness over bumps/impacts that you'd get with a very small car.
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  #60  
Old 04-11-2017, 07:02 AM
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I had an e90 335 and now an f30 335. While I can agree the steering is not as fun as the e90, I prefer the f30 in every way. Of course having a tune and dp have elevated this car to being pretty damn fun.

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  #61  
Old 04-11-2017, 08:04 AM
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Originally Posted by namelessman View Post
F30 EPS has been popular with female drivers, and even first time drivers, in the family.
I'm seeing that exact same thing. Wife prefers the F30 over the heavy steering of my previous car.

I personally prefer the "I just drove over a pebble" sensitivity. I also like hearing some wind noise and outside ambient noise in the cabin so I know what's going on around me while driving.
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  #62  
Old 04-11-2017, 09:26 AM
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Originally Posted by Michael Schott View Post
Better at actual steering, I guess it depends on your definition.
My definition: when the driver turns the steering wheel, the steering system responds quickly and smoothly. Car and Driver's data indicates that F30's steering system is better in this context than E90's:

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  #63  
Old 04-11-2017, 09:45 AM
namelessman namelessman is online now
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Originally Posted by anotheran View Post
I'm seeing that exact same thing. Wife prefers the F30 over the heavy steering of my previous car.

I personally prefer the "I just drove over a pebble" sensitivity. I also like hearing some wind noise and outside ambient noise in the cabin so I know what's going on around me while driving.
As far as wind noise, my coworker's 2014 320i just had a new windshield installed by CCRC, and surprisingly the wind noise has been significantly reduced! Mine(2013) is kind of noisy too starting 80mph, so maybe my windshield is not installed right from the factory ....
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  #64  
Old 04-11-2017, 09:47 AM
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Originally Posted by gkr778 View Post
My definition: when the driver turns the steering wheel, the steering system responds quickly and smoothly. Car and Driver's data indicates that F30's steering system is better in this context than E90's.
That is great data, and that correlates with my coworker's comments when he said my 328i EPS has better steering response than his 10-year A3 hatchback HPS.
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  #65  
Old 04-11-2017, 09:53 AM
Michael Schott Michael Schott is offline
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Originally Posted by gkr778 View Post
My definition: when the driver turns the steering wheel, the steering system responds quickly and smoothly. Car and Driver's data indicates that F30's steering system is better in this context than E90's:

There's more to the article than just the graph. Post the whole thing. They don't agree with your assessment.
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  #66  
Old 04-11-2017, 11:32 AM
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Originally Posted by Michael Schott View Post
There's more to the article than just the graph. Post the whole thing. They don't agree with your assessment.
It's a paradox. Car and Driver whines incessantly that F30's steering system is disappointing. Yet objective data posted in that magazine clearly indicates that F30's steering is superior according the definition I mentioned in post #62. It's best just to ignore the Car and Driver editorial team's subjective pontification on this subject.

The Car and Driver article you alluded to is Still the Magic Number? 2012 BMW 328i 40,000 mile test by Don Sherman, pp. 72 - 76 of the October 2013 issue. Link: http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...wrap-up-review
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  #67  
Old 04-11-2017, 12:32 PM
Michael Schott Michael Schott is offline
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Originally Posted by gkr778 View Post
It's a paradox. Car and Driver whines incessantly that F30's steering system is disappointing. Yet objective data posted in that magazine clearly indicates that F30's steering is superior according the definition I mentioned in post #62. It's best just to ignore the Car and Driver editorial team's subjective pontification on this subject.

The Car and Driver article you alluded to is Still the Magic Number? 2012 BMW 328i 40,000 mile test by Don Sherman, pp. 72 - 76 of the October 2013 issue. Link: http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...wrap-up-review
Objective vs subjective. Graphs don't tell the entire story. I like C and D's editorial take as it jibes with mine. More to the point, I spent 6 years in E90's and 3 in an F30. I liked a lot about the F30 more than I did the E90 but the steering feel in the F30 is absent.
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  #68  
Old 04-11-2017, 01:33 PM
Kafkaesque328 Kafkaesque328 is offline
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Originally Posted by gkr778 View Post
It's a paradox. Car and Driver whines incessantly that F30's steering system is disappointing. Yet objective data posted in that magazine clearly indicates that F30's steering is superior according the definition I mentioned in post #62. It's best just to ignore the Car and Driver editorial team's subjective pontification on this subject.

The Car and Driver article you alluded to is Still the Magic Number? 2012 BMW 328i 40,000 mile test by Don Sherman, pp. 72 - 76 of the October 2013 issue. Link: http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...wrap-up-review
I try to ignore Car and Driver as much as possible with the exception of basic instrument tests for 0-60, 1/4 mile times, braking, skid, etc. Beyond that, I don't really care what their subjective opinions are considering they wish every car came with a manual transmission, roll up windows and wishbone suspension for that truly connected, enthusiast feel. Thankfully, the vast majority of the car buying public couldn't care less what C&D has to say either.
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  #69  
Old 04-11-2017, 02:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Kafkaesque328 View Post
the vast majority of the car buying public couldn't care less what C&D has to say either.
I have a subscription to C&D that expires in June (paid $5/year on Amazon.com since 2013). I'm not planning to renew, as even though a 1 year renewal costs about the same as a pizza lunch combo from Little Caesars, the magazine really doesn't offer anything worthwhile to me. I've noticed that C&D magazine has become notably thinner in the past year, with fewer in depth reviews and comparison tests. It wouldn't surprise me at all if the magazine's subscriber base is shrinking rapidly.

The one thing that Car and Driver does well is instrumented testing, and their test sheets are readily available at no cost on their website anyway.
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  #70  
Old 04-11-2017, 02:41 PM
namelessman namelessman is online now
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Originally Posted by gkr778 View Post
It's a paradox. Car and Driver whines incessantly that F30's steering system is disappointing. Yet objective data posted in that magazine clearly indicates that F30's steering is superior according the definition I mentioned in post #62. It's best just to ignore the Car and Driver editorial team's subjective pontification on this subject.

The Car and Driver article you alluded to is Still the Magic Number? 2012 BMW 328i 40,000 mile test by Don Sherman, pp. 72 - 76 of the October 2013 issue. Link: http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...wrap-up-review
It is hard to argue against objective data. This is similar to the comparison of surging power band of M54(e.g.) of the E46/E39 days versus the flat power band of N20(e.g.), the I6 NA feels fast, but the I4 turbo is fast.
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  #71  
Old 04-11-2017, 02:49 PM
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It is hard to argue against objective data. This is similar to the comparison of surging power band of M54(e.g.) of the E46/E39 days versus the flat power band of N20(e.g.), the I6 NA feels fast, but the I4 turbo is fast.
My thought as well.

But in the objective data category, F30 gives up on skidpad and braking performance.

I don't have a problem with steering performance. I do have a problem with numbness. But really, my biggest problem is the the F30 does not "handle like it is on rails" like I felt my E46 did. It feels floaty & yet more harsh at the time time. I think that is probably a suspension issue rather than a steering one.

They got the engine, transmission, and design right, though.
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  #72  
Old 04-11-2017, 03:20 PM
imtjm imtjm is offline
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Well in about a week we will both be switching to Michelin PSS, so in the interest of science I think we should
that and you would have to get the same suspension setup and wheelbase....you might as well just get two BMWs.
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  #73  
Old 04-11-2017, 03:25 PM
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My thought as well.

But in the objective data category, F30 gives up on skidpad and braking performance.

I don't have a problem with steering performance. I do have a problem with numbness. But really, my biggest problem is the the F30 does not "handle like it is on rails" like I felt my E46 did. It feels floaty & yet more harsh at the time time. I think that is probably a suspension issue rather than a steering one.

They got the engine, transmission, and design right, though.
um, where are you getting that the F30 gives up on skidpad and braking performance?

you cannot separate steering and suspension. Actually, "handle like it is on rails" is a function of suspension not steering.

your E46 had shorter wheelbase, narrower stance, lighter, and different suspension without all the computerized advances as the F30.
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  #74  
Old 04-11-2017, 03:27 PM
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um, where are you getting that the F30 gives up on skidpad and braking performance?

you cannot separate steering and suspension. Actually, "handle like it is on rails" is a function of suspension not steering.

your E46 had shorter wheelbase, narrower stance, lighter, and different suspension without all the computerized advances as the F30.
same article linked above:
Quote:
The new 328i's greater mass (82 pounds more) and low-rolling-resistance tires resulted in significant braking- and cornering-performance degradation: 70–0 stopping stretched from 160 to 172 feet while skidpad stick fell from 0.92 to 0.88 g.
My uneducated guess is that BMW went with a cheaper suspension design on the F30 and it shows.
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Last edited by mr_clueless; 04-11-2017 at 03:30 PM.
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  #75  
Old 04-11-2017, 04:12 PM
Michael Schott Michael Schott is offline
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Originally Posted by mr_clueless View Post
same article linked above:


My uneducated guess is that BMW went with a cheaper suspension design on the F30 and it shows.
No. It's clearly the low rolling resistance tires not the suspension.
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