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The sixth generation BMW 3 Series Sedan F30/F31/F34 and the first first generation 4 Series Coupe F32/F33/F36. Get the latest 3 and 4 series pricing from our ordering and pricing guide sticky thread.

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  #1  
Old 04-15-2017, 02:51 PM
Morpheus991 Morpheus991 is offline
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Purchasing in CA (SULEV Help!)

My current car is out of commission after a very boring 10+ years (2001 Toyota Solara). I've been without a car for two weeks and my motorcycle isn't cutting it.

I've been hunting and researching a lot about cars recently. With my budget, I think I can squeeze in a little fun (BMW).

I've been looking into the 2014 328i CPO's and I'm learning a lot about them. Every time I think I've figured it out something new pops up that changes everything. I think I've got a handle on most of the options available BUT I just started noticing while checking CARFAX for all potential cars that 95% of them are SULEV. I tried reading up the best I could about it. It seems like a lot of fuss was going on about the earlier ones but I cant seem to get any info on the newer ones. From what I read the warranty isn't as good as it used to be if it exists at all for SULEV. I really don't want a car thats stuck in the shop all the time (for free or not).

I thought it might be time to reach out and ask you guys for guidance. It's kind of time sensitive but I'm making sure not to make a rash decision based on urgency. Any and all info is appreciated. Thank you.
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Old 04-15-2017, 04:10 PM
namelessman namelessman is offline
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Most 328i 8AT are N26 PZEV, which carries a 15-yr/150k-mile warranty on emission parts. The list of emission parts is kind of long, e.g. DOR radiator, mechatronics, ECU, turbo, torque converter, vacuum pump, VANOS, charge air cooler, fuel systems, cat, misc. sensors, valve cover gaskets, manifolds, etc, etc. Many of these are big ticket items that cost $$$$$ to fix. Online forums are extremely quiet of any failure specifically related to PZEV(or F30 in general), so it would appear PZEV components work out OK so far.
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Old 04-15-2017, 04:47 PM
Morpheus991 Morpheus991 is offline
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That's good to know. I thought more recent models had less of a warranty, I read 100k for some and even less on others. My hunt continues then. I appreciate it.
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Old 04-15-2017, 05:45 PM
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Sounds good here http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=927931
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Old 04-15-2017, 06:18 PM
Morpheus991 Morpheus991 is offline
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Yeah, I'm almost ok with the SULEV but the posts I've seen seem to relate to cars up to 2013, not 2014. I think they changed the warranty after that.
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Old 04-15-2017, 06:38 PM
imtjm imtjm is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Morpheus991 View Post
Yeah, I'm almost ok with the SULEV but the posts I've seen seem to relate to cars up to 2013, not 2014. I think they changed the warranty after that.
Well, there's a lot of old and new information all mixed up, so just go with the Warranty Manual for the car you intend to purchase and it will spell it out for you. The confusion mostly involved whether or not the vehicle had to be registered, purchased, leased, etc in SULEV state. Previously, there was an "and/or" which meant it didn't matter so long as you vehicle at some point was originally purchased/leased/registered in one of the SULEV states. For the 2014 you are considering, it has to be currently registered in the SULEV state to be covered under the extended 15/150k. You can look at the warranty book to see what is covered and for how long. I actually think that getting a SULEV so long as you are registered in a SULEV state is a very beneficial.

I'm not sure what information you are looking at that said they changed warranty after 2013. 2013 is the same as current.
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Old 04-15-2017, 06:48 PM
namelessman namelessman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by imtjm View Post
Well, there's a lot of old and new information all mixed up, so just go with the Warranty Manual for the car you intend to purchase and it will spell it out for you. The confusion mostly involved whether or not the vehicle had to be registered, purchased, leased, etc in SULEV state. Previously, there was an "and/or" which meant it didn't matter so long as you vehicle at some point was originally purchased/leased/registered in one of the SULEV states. For the 2014 you are considering, it has to be currently registered in the SULEV state to be covered under the extended 15/150k. You can look at the warranty book to see what is covered and for how long. I actually think that getting a SULEV so long as you are registered in a SULEV state is a very beneficial.

I'm not sure what information you are looking at that said they changed warranty after 2013. 2013 is the same as current.
Actually the parts listed on Service and Warranty booklet are the major emission parts, BMWNA published separate parts lists per SULEV model. E.g. "2004 BMW SULEV(PZEV) Parst List"(for 2004 E90) shows that ignition coil is covered, and even cylinder head cover gasket is covered.

The SA has not yet provided me the SULEV part list for my F30 N26.
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Old 04-15-2017, 07:11 PM
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tturedraider tturedraider is offline
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As nameless mentioned N26 SULEV problems reported on forums such as this have been very few. I don't think you're going to have any reason for worry. And since you're in an SULEV state, where not incidentally BMWNA sells OODDLES AND OODDLES of cars with the N26 motor, you should be fully covered by the extended emissions equipment warranty. I say shop with confidence! Pics will be required when you get your new ride. It's only fair to warn you that BMWs can quickly become an incurable disease.
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  #9  
Old 04-15-2017, 07:17 PM
imtjm imtjm is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by namelessman View Post
Actually the parts listed on Service and Warranty booklet are the major emission parts, BMWNA published separate parts lists per SULEV model. E.g. "2004 BMW SULEV(PZEV) Parst List"(for 2004 E90) shows that ignition coil is covered, and even cylinder head cover gasket is covered.

The SA has not yet provided me the SULEV part list for my F30 N26.
Well, considering OP is looking for a 2014 with an N26 not a 2004 with a M56, I don't know how germane looking up a 2004 M56 SULEV(PZEV) parts list is. The warranty book from pages 28-29 list what is covered and under the 15/150k specifies: "Your emission control system may include parts such as the fuel injection system, the ignition system, catalytic converter, and engine computer. Also included may be hoses, belts, connectors and other emission-related assemblies." followed by "any emission-related part on your vehicle is
defective" Operative word being "any". You'll note ignition system and cylinder head cover gasket are also listed in the warranty manual.

But I get your point.

Last edited by imtjm; 04-15-2017 at 07:20 PM.
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Old 04-15-2017, 07:24 PM
Kafkaesque328 Kafkaesque328 is offline
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I have SULEV on n20 engine, covered for the super long fuel system and emissions warranty
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Old 04-15-2017, 08:10 PM
Morpheus991 Morpheus991 is offline
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This is all pretty confusing, looking at the actual online warranty seems like coverage is at most 100k....anyway, I think I'm going to risk it.
I'll probably be looking at some of these 4 cars tomorrow. I'm not sure if the Sports line is worth the additional future tire costs headaches. I'm very open to advice!:

http://cpo.bmwusa.com/certified/BMW/...m?geoZip=90027

http://cpo.bmwusa.com/certified/BMW/...m?geoZip=90027

http://cpo.bmwusa.com/certified/BMW/...m?geoZip=90027

http://cpo.bmwusa.com/certified/BMW/...m?geoZip=90027
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  #12  
Old 04-15-2017, 08:29 PM
imtjm imtjm is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Morpheus991 View Post
This is all pretty confusing, looking at the actual online warranty seems like coverage is at most 100k....anyway, I think I'm going to risk it.
I'll probably be looking at some of these 4 cars tomorrow. I'm not sure if the Sports line is worth the additional future tire costs headaches. I'm very open to advice!:

http://cpo.bmwusa.com/certified/BMW/...m?geoZip=90027

http://cpo.bmwusa.com/certified/BMW/...m?geoZip=90027

http://cpo.bmwusa.com/certified/BMW/...m?geoZip=90027

http://cpo.bmwusa.com/certified/BMW/...m?geoZip=90027
what do you mean, "actual online warranty seems like coverage is at most 100k"? Don't confuse the CPO warranty with the emissions related warranty. They are entirely separate things. If you buy the 2014 328i SULEV(PZEV) and register it in CA where you are, any emissions related components are covered under the CA Emissions SULEV(PZEV) warranty.

The 2014 CPO warranty: Up to 2-Years/50,000-Miles plus balance of original warranty (4-Year/50,000-Miles), 6 years/100,000 miles.
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Old 04-15-2017, 08:40 PM
namelessman namelessman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by imtjm View Post
Well, considering OP is looking for a 2014 with an N26 not a 2004 with a M56, I don't know how germane looking up a 2004 M56 SULEV(PZEV) parts list is. The warranty book from pages 28-29 list what is covered and under the 15/150k specifies: "Your emission control system may include parts such as the fuel injection system, the ignition system, catalytic converter, and engine computer. Also included may be hoses, belts, connectors and other emission-related assemblies." followed by "any emission-related part on your vehicle is
defective" Operative word being "any". You'll note ignition system and cylinder head cover gasket are also listed in the warranty manual.

But I get your point.
My MY13 booklet pg. 28-29 is titled "California Emission Warranty Parts List". My interpretation is that it is not the PZEV parts list, but as noted, "any" emission part should include all that are listed on pg. 28-29.

On my table there is no listing of ignition system/ignition coil .... If it is listed out in your booklet, what year is your car?

Mine does say "cylinder head cover gasket set", that probably refers to the valve cover gasket. My hope is that PZEV covers cylinder head gasket, which is a BIG job.

As far as the word "any" goes, my local SA said it is up to manufacturer to interpret what are considered as emission related. E.g. even though DOR radiator is covered, the radiator hoses are not covered by BMWNA. In comparison, MB PZEV covers the instrument panel, and even the shift knob with P/D/R/N lit indicators! The MB rationale probably is that if P/D/R/N is out, the drivers won't know what gear they are in, and will waste gas and cause extra exhaust.

If anyone has experience getting BMWNA to pay for DOR radiator + all hoses, or instrument panel, under PZEV warranty, please share the experience.
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Old 04-15-2017, 08:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Morpheus991 View Post
This is all pretty confusing, looking at the actual online warranty seems like coverage is at most 100k....anyway, I think I'm going to risk it.
I'll probably be looking at some of these 4 cars tomorrow. I'm not sure if the Sports line is worth the additional future tire costs headaches. I'm very open to advice!:

http://cpo.bmwusa.com/certified/BMW/...m?geoZip=90027

http://cpo.bmwusa.com/certified/BMW/...m?geoZip=90027

http://cpo.bmwusa.com/certified/BMW/...m?geoZip=90027

http://cpo.bmwusa.com/certified/BMW/...m?geoZip=90027
You're in Cali! The Sport line is worth it!!!


EDIT: the last one, white M Sport, looks nice but it doesn't have the premium pkg, which means it does not have leather or lumbar support or several other very nice features, and it does not have xenon headlights. Everyone here will tell you to get xenon headlights. I will tell you to get leather and the premium pkg. I'll say more, but I have to hit the sack for tonight.
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Last edited by tturedraider; 04-15-2017 at 09:06 PM.
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  #15  
Old 04-15-2017, 08:51 PM
namelessman namelessman is offline
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It's only fair to warn you that BMWs can quickly become an incurable disease.
It is fair to say BMWs have enough embedded science to intrigue the inquisitive minds.
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Old 04-15-2017, 08:55 PM
Morpheus991 Morpheus991 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by imtjm View Post
what do you mean, "actual online warranty seems like coverage is at most 100k"? Don't confuse the CPO warranty with the emissions related warranty. They are entirely separate things. If you buy the 2014 328i SULEV(PZEV) and register it in CA where you are, any emissions related components are covered under the CA Emissions SULEV(PZEV) warranty.

The 2014 CPO warranty: Up to 2-Years/50,000-Miles plus balance of original warranty (4-Year/50,000-Miles), 6 years/100,000 miles.
I'm not mixing them up. I was looking at the online warranty info (Attached the PDF). The diagrams are confusing. It seems like the SULEV only has a 7yr 70k and the regular 328i has a 10yr 100k warranty for emissions related parts. Regardless it seems like the 150k is for older vehicles as far as I can tell. Hopefully I'll get a car that's content with running forever with no issues!
Attached Files
File Type: pdf 2014 3_5_7Series.pdf (1.69 MB, 19 views)
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Old 04-15-2017, 09:38 PM
Kafkaesque328 Kafkaesque328 is offline
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I looked at my warranty section in my owners manual packet for my 2016 SULEV and my car has the super long emissions and fuel systems warranty, 15 year/150k coverage, CA vehicle. In my case, if I actually keep the car past the lease term, there is no way I will have it long enough for it to matter. I mean its nice all that stuff would be covered at the 6-8 year mark, but driving 12k miles per year or so, it would take me ages to reach 150k miles. Ages. There will be flying cars by that time and the F30 will be like a model T
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Old 04-15-2017, 11:49 PM
namelessman namelessman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Morpheus991 View Post
I'm not mixing them up. I was looking at the online warranty info (Attached the PDF). The diagrams are confusing. It seems like the SULEV only has a 7yr 70k and the regular 328i has a 10yr 100k warranty for emissions related parts. Regardless it seems like the 150k is for older vehicles as far as I can tell. Hopefully I'll get a car that's content with running forever with no issues!
Do read what is said in the PDF:

California Emission Warranty —
SULEV (PZEV)
Certain 2014 328i models are certified to
California’s stringent Super Ultra Low Emission
Vehicle (SULEV) standards and also qualify as a
Partial Zero Emission Vehicle (PZEV) under the
California Air Resources Board Zero Emission
Vehicle program. In addition to very low tailpipe
and zero-evaporative emissions, this PZEV
certification includes a unique warranty when the
vehicle is registered in California, Connecticut,
Maine, Maryland, Massachusetts, New Jersey,
New York, Rhode Island or Vermont
. The SULEV
(PZEV) models registered in Delaware, Oregon,
Pennsylvania and Washington
are covered by the
California Emissions Warranty; this coverage is
described beginning on page 26.
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Old 04-16-2017, 10:03 AM
imtjm imtjm is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Morpheus991 View Post
I'm not mixing them up. I was looking at the online warranty info (Attached the PDF). The diagrams are confusing. It seems like the SULEV only has a 7yr 70k and the regular 328i has a 10yr 100k warranty for emissions related parts. Regardless it seems like the 150k is for older vehicles as far as I can tell. Hopefully I'll get a car that's content with running forever with no issues!
No, you skipped pages 40-42 of the file you attached.
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Old 04-16-2017, 10:08 AM
imtjm imtjm is offline
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Originally Posted by namelessman View Post
As far as the word "any" goes, my local SA said it is up to manufacturer to interpret what are considered as emission related. E.g. even though DOR radiator is covered, the radiator hoses are not covered by BMWNA. In comparison, MB PZEV covers the instrument panel, and even the shift knob with P/D/R/N lit indicators! The MB rationale probably is that if P/D/R/N is out, the drivers won't know what gear they are in, and will waste gas and cause extra exhaust.

If anyone has experience getting BMWNA to pay for DOR radiator + all hoses, or instrument panel, under PZEV warranty, please share the experience.
any means any. What part of hoses isn't understood in this direct quote, "Your emission control system may include parts such as the fuel injection system, the ignition system, catalytic converter, and engine computer. Also included may be hoses, belts, connectors and other emission-related assemblies." followed by "any emission-related part on your vehicle is
defective"
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Old 04-16-2017, 11:24 AM
namelessman namelessman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by imtjm View Post
any means any. What part of hoses isn't understood in this direct quote, "Your emission control system may include parts such as the fuel injection system, the ignition system, catalytic converter, and engine computer. Also included may be hoses, belts, connectors and other emission-related assemblies." followed by "any emission-related part on your vehicle is
defective"
An E90 poster who got PZEV repair shared the experience. Does that match your experience utilizing PZEV warranty too?

Let's say any does mean any, then "may include" and "may be" can still be up to interpretation by manufacturer, right?

E.g. if BMWNA can prove a broken radiator hose does not affect emission, then it will be not considered as an emission part.

E.g. MB interprets instrument panel as emission part, but BMW does not.

Quote:
Originally Posted by namelessman View Post
Just curious, does PZEV warranty cover DOR radiator AND all radiator hoses, or just the radiator itself?

Quote:
Originally Posted by NoahO View Post
My radiator wasn't replaced, but they still replaced all of the hoses. The reasoning being that the hoses are likely to leak soon after repairs if not replaced.

Last edited by namelessman; 04-16-2017 at 09:26 PM.
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Old 04-17-2017, 12:42 AM
imtjm imtjm is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by namelessman View Post
An E90 poster who got PZEV repair shared the experience. Does that match your experience utilizing PZEV warranty too?

Let's say any does mean any, then "may include" and "may be" can still be up to interpretation by manufacturer, right?

E.g. if BMWNA can prove a broken radiator hose does not affect emission, then it will be not considered as an emission part.

E.g. MB interprets instrument panel as emission part, but BMW does not.
I will say if it were a few years ago where there was much confusion, less enforcement, and wording problems, it was an issue; however, if you are in a SULEV(PZEV) state it's not even a fight...especially since 15/150k if your vehicle fails emissions test, it's pretty much a no brainer. Moreover, there is plenty documentation from BMW itself as well as all the other car manufacturers in what parts are covered and aren't. I don't find problems these days on the emissions warranty. Maybe there are, but I haven't seen widespread issues these days in getting warranty coverage.

wrt, MB, it isn't the entire instrument panel, it is Malfunction Indicator Lamp (MIL) which is covered, which is MB's version of BMW's SES/CEL.
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Old 04-17-2017, 01:22 AM
Morpheus991 Morpheus991 is offline
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Slightly off topic but still about my car purchase:
I'm still hunting for "my" car. Today didn't work out. I live really close to a dealership that everyone raves about called Pacific BMW. I'm dealing with a nice little guy named Troy but everyone seems to have a hard on about Greg Poland. What's the etiquette here? I stick with my guy right? Ultimately, finances are tough and I don't have much cash to play with so I need a decent deal. Should I try asking Greg to keep an eye out? This is my first dealership purchase. I'm looking far and wide for a car.
I'm also getting pretty worn out having to stable way of getting groceries home for the past 3 weeks...

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Old 04-17-2017, 09:53 AM
namelessman namelessman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by imtjm View Post
I will say if it were a few years ago where there was much confusion, less enforcement, and wording problems, it was an issue; however, if you are in a SULEV(PZEV) state it's not even a fight...especially since 15/150k if your vehicle fails emissions test, it's pretty much a no brainer. Moreover, there is plenty documentation from BMW itself as well as all the other car manufacturers in what parts are covered and aren't. I don't find problems these days on the emissions warranty. Maybe there are, but I haven't seen widespread issues these days in getting warranty coverage.

wrt, MB, it isn't the entire instrument panel, it is Malfunction Indicator Lamp (MIL) which is covered, which is MB's version of BMW's SES/CEL.
The 2016 warranty and service booklet on mbusa.com does say "Instrument Cluster(MIL)", that seems to imply MIL itself(which usually requires replacing whole cluster) is emission part, and needs to fixed under PZEV warranty(how to diagnose the MILL itself malfunctioning?).

Or maybe it should be interpreted as MIL becoming lit as a chargeable event under PZEV warranty?

At least BMW's booklet does not have instrument cluster on its list.

Also MB lists out ignition coil and spark plugs as emission parts, while BMW says spark plugs are wear and tear every 60000 miles. Also MB does not list radiator, while BMW does.

So if my PZEV 328i is brought in for spark plug job, can PZEV be quoted to get that job done for free, since other manufacturers(e.g. MB) say spark plugs are emission parts? That question was brought up, and the SA said since BMW does not list spark plugs, those are not emission parts.

The same SA also said a radiator hose leak by itself is not covered by PZEV. My hope is a radiator leak can also include radiator hoses.

Last edited by namelessman; 04-17-2017 at 10:57 AM.
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  #25  
Old 04-17-2017, 11:47 AM
imtjm imtjm is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Morpheus991 View Post
Slightly off topic but still about my car purchase:
I'm still hunting for "my" car. Today didn't work out. I live really close to a dealership that everyone raves about called Pacific BMW. I'm dealing with a nice little guy named Troy but everyone seems to have a hard on about Greg Poland. What's the etiquette here? I stick with my guy right? Ultimately, finances are tough and I don't have much cash to play with so I need a decent deal. Should I try asking Greg to keep an eye out? This is my first dealership purchase. I'm looking far and wide for a car.
I'm also getting pretty worn out having to stable way of getting groceries home for the past 3 weeks...

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you go with whomever you feel most comfortable. You have zero, no, zilch, nada, nil loyalty to any single person.
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