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Steering e36 greater than F30

15K views 318 replies 38 participants last post by  bmw325 
#1 · (Edited)
So I've had my F30 for about a month.

I was in denial about reading everyone whining about the steering, it couldn't possible be THAT bad, could it?

I have to say, when compared to my e36, I'm slightly let down.

You all know the story so I wont beat that horse.

I just wanted to share with you guys that the ultimate driving machine I thought I would be buying... I already owned.

The F30 has given me a new found respect for my e36.

While its slower, older and louder than the f30, its by far the car that is more fun to drive. When I get in the e36 my body just has a feeling of "now its time for some fun".

If you are a true bmw enthusiast you understand, other than name, these are completely different cars in every respect, so much has changed. Land vehicle Vehicle Car Coupé Sedan


My next bimmer WILL be an e30. When I'm driving down the road and see a well preserved one I get so excited, my friends think I'm nuts.

...or maybe an F23

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#7 ·
E36 = Great Car.
F30 = Great Car.

There are some changes in 15 years...
However BMW "fixed" the steering for the 4 series and for me, that change does the job and brought back that BMW feel, and advanced it into the future. F32 (I'm biased) is better than E36 and F30.
 
#12 · (Edited)
E30- raw BMW steering feel, love it as a driver's car. No tech wizardry all driver corrections.

E36- More refined but still raw. Early versions of the suspension nannies to make the driver better.

E46- IMHO, the best all around refined road feel and suspension nannies combination. Made the driver an extension of the machine w/o too much or too little interference from the nannies plus still being able to use driver skill for corrections; perfect balance.

E9x- overly stiffened suspension that removed the perfect balance between road feel & feedback along with precise/accurate steering. I actually love this stock suspension setup as it's what I have on my ZHP with adjustable Koni yellows + Hotchkis sways. Due to this increased suspension stiffness the nannies either over or under compensate similar to how the earlier gen E36 would react. However post-LCI E9x are much better dialed in vs the earlier versions.

F3x- EPS first gen implementation; enough said.


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#14 ·
There is a significant difference in weighting and perceived feel between the modes, comfort being the lightest, EcoPro with more weighting and Sport considerably better weighted than Comfort and I find quite good - and I'm comparing that to my '13 128i which has great steering.

When someone compares the steering feel of a 128i to something else, there's only one steering feel available so you know what they're comparing. With three different feeling steering modes in the F30, when anyone laments the steering in the F30 but does not state what mode they're referring to, I don't know what to make of the comment - were they aware of the different modes? are they comparing the different modes?
 
#15 ·
Hellrot - Are you on the original suspension, steering system, and suspension/steering bushings? Any upgrades?

I only ask because I've driven an e36 with significantly stiffer components in the suspension. It's steering was sublime, but it's ride quality was barely passable for a street car for my tastes.
 
#20 · (Edited)
Do not even get me started on this discussion:D

The new crappy steering of a thing they call in F30 or other newer BMW's with EPS.......... have just made me almost walk away from BMW. I did not turn my 7 series in for a newer 7 series because they ruined it and made it a barge to drive.....far less sporty then E65. Instead I moved to an E92 that still carried the banner of what BMW used to be well enough. Then again when it came time to turn in my 5 series I walked away from the newer 5 series because in RWD the horrible EPS and non sporty demeanor was a turn off. Seems like E92 would be my last one and I will hold on to it for as long as I can. I have been voting with my wallet. My money will not go towards the generic bland cars that they are making to appease the masses.

In my opinion........the early generations were more raw and connected. The E46 brought more of the medium ground and the E9x carried on the banner very well it brought huge power gains all around and a tons of more technology.

In comparison the F30 has been more generic and created to appease the masses.......more one step forward and two steps backward with only hints of what it could have been. Who would have thought we will have a day when the Cadillac will have a better feeling steering and more driver connected feel then a legendary BMW 3 series. Just utter embarrassment:tsk:.

My only hope in BMW is left with the M3/M4/M2 or 2 series now. However, with ever increasing prices of the M cars and imminent horrible EPS setup on horizon in all of them. I am quickly losing whatever remaining faith I have in BMW. This horrible EPS setup has been out now for more then 2 plus years and it is still no where near good.


I think it is time to go buy a GM bang for the buck C7 stingray at least their engineers have been busting butt and the management is on track with what most enthusiast want. The new offering all are pretty good ATS, CTS, and the best of all C7.
 
#22 ·
In comparison the F30 has been more generic and created to appease the masses.......Who would have thought we will have a day when the Cadillac will have a better feeling steering and more driver connected feel then a legendary BMW 3 series. Just utter embarrassment

I think it is time to go buy a GM bang for the buck C7 stingray at least their engineers have been busting butt and the management is on track with what most enthusiast want.
If there were more enthusiasts BMW would cater to them.

Don't blame BMW; blame your little clique whose numbers are so small they aren't a market segment any more.

BJ
 
#21 ·
I had an E90 335 RWD Sport with 6MT and pound for pound I like my new F30 335 MSport xdrive 6MT with DHP better. Such a smooth car and beautiful to look at (which the E90 was not). For the street, it handles great and is so relaxed doing it. I do keep it on Sport almost all the time (chassis and drivetrain) for the better throttle response more so than the steering. I like that on a 6MT, you can get the enhanced throttle response without having to live with the raised shift points of the auto (no I wouldn't paddle shift).

The E46 is still my favorite exterior style BMW but the overall package that the F30 offers (at least how I have it optioned) is tough to beat.


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#30 · (Edited)
BJ drops the mic and exits stage...

Every head explodes....Everything they thought they knew about the joy of driving or of a car being built for the pure drivers joy is nil and void because they were just all told that sales are all that matters.

I for one will now view my BMW as only something that shows the world where I rank... I'm number 254,567,321.00 of 7 billion and change. Got my BMW to prove it in case anyone ever tried to question it! Face world!
 
#31 ·
BMW is one of the 100 biggest companies in the world and you think that sales don't matter?

And don't miss the small picture: BMW still makes a car for enthusiasts. You just have to pay for it now, no longer is standard equipment. Those who are truly upset at the F30's handling and steering are only rustled over one thing: Money. And if you can't afford the extra $3,000 to make your $50,000 car handle like an E46, well, you shouldn't have been in a BMW to begin with.

BJ
 
#87 · (Edited)
The E9x with sport package was not perfect from the factory. It was not even close to perfect. As a matter of fact it sucked. The sports suspension was very poorly sorted out and the car was borderline undrivable on anything but pristine road surfaces. The E9x was plagued by harsh ride, bouncing around on bumpy roads, bubbled tires and bent rims. This has been well documented on this forum.

I was able to rectify the suspension and ride issues on my 335 but I had to go aftermarket to do it. The average car buyer is not going to be interested in going that route.




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#89 · (Edited)
The E9x with sport package was not perfect from the factory. It was not even close to perfect. As a matter of fact it sucked. The sports suspension was very poorly sorted out and the car was borderline undrivable on anything but pristine road surfaces. The E9x was plagued by harsh ride, bouncing around on bumpy roads, bubbled tires and bent rims. This has been well documented on this forum.

I was able to rectify the suspension and ride issues on my 335 but I had to go aftermarket to do it. The average car buyer is not going to be interested in going that route.

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Thank you. It's like everyone forgot how harsh the E90 Sport drove (oh wait now we will hear about the LCI).

When I was first deciding which car to get next I was all over the F30 for soft steering, etc but overall the styling, interior, and availability of a manual were enough to get me to roll the dice on this magic DHP option which doesn't exist anywhere in our area in hopes that it would fix parts of the 3 that I wasn't happy about. Now that I've had the car for a few weeks I am finding it more enjoyable every day. The combination of looks, engine, comfort, sportiness, and technology is what sets it apart from its competitors. Its competitors all had one or two qualities that I just couldn't accept. Cadillac - cue, interior feel; Audi - steering too light, older model (still awesome though), Merc C - no manual on the 350, interior still looks cheap to me, etc. That is why the 3 ends up on the 10 Best lists each year even if it doesn't win every car comparison.

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#95 ·
Kayani- I mostly agree with you but vss is very different than the old active steering. Active steering used a motor to increase the amount the wheels turned (almost like an eps like augmentation in the basic hydraulic system). Vss is just a variable ratio rack - the gear teeth at the edges are cut at a greater angle so the more you turn the wheel the lower the ratio. Various carmakers have used this strategy for years. In fact I could swear bmw did this as a standard practice at one point.

Given what vss is though I doubt it makes any difference in feel - good or bad. Probably helps the most in low speed maneuvers- so kind of strange that its marketed as "variable sport". I also think that people see the word "variable" and assume it means adjustable. All F30s come standard with "servotronic" which is bmw speak for being able to adjust the assist level. With eps it's just a software thing.

I'm still hopeful that they'll continue to refine their eps. The 991 I drove with eps was sublime.


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#100 · (Edited)
SO much hating on the base-line F30 going on in this forum. I got a base-line with DHP and as far as I can tell, I think it was a pretty economical way to achieve optimal performance. As my car is still on a boat, I am not yet positive about this. Also, what is the deal with Sport+? Does it only come on Sportline and MSport, and if so, is it just Sport mode with DTC off? (sorry for being a little off topic)

Like CaptinAudio has pointed out, I think there is some mythological reminiscing about older chassis mixed with some bitterness about pkg optioning that is plaguing these threads about F30 performance. Talk to any old-timer and they will be quick to tell stories about how they were highschool legends on the court... My point is that memories tend to sweeten the pot and the easiest comparison is the one that cant really be made... let alone supported ( something like say--- past Vs present). But hey, maybe in a month or so I will be singing a very different tune. I just know that I did A LOT of research before buying my car and a manual 328i (Or 335, but that was out of my price range) makes a lot sense when you take everything into account. Its not about being perfect, its just about being better than everyone else.
 
#101 ·
SO much hating on the base-line F30 going on in this forum. I got a base-line with DHP and as far as I can tell, I think it was a pretty economical way to achieve optimal performance. As my car is still on a boat, I am not yet positive about this. Also, what is the deal with Sport+? Does it only come on Sportline and MSport, and if so, is it just Sport mode with DTC off? (sorry for being a little off topic)

Like CaptinAudio has pointed out, I think there is some mythological reminiscing about older chassis mixed with some bitterness about pkg optioning that is plaguing these threads about F30 performance. Talk to any old-timer and they will be quick to tell stories about how they were highschool legends on the court... My point is that memories tend to sweeten the pot and the easiest comparison is the one that cant really be made... let alone supported ( something like say--- past Vs present). But hey, maybe in a month or so I will be singing a very different tune. I just know that I did A LOT of research before buying my car and a manual 328i (Or 335, but that was out of my price range) makes a lot sense when you take everything into account. Its not about being perfect, its just about being better than everyone else.
No matter what anyone says about the F30 on here, you will love the car.

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#108 ·
I know to a BMW owner this tends to be the least important...However in the looks department F30/F32 > E90/E92 by a mile....Kayani, I just did back to back drives on the snake in an E46, E92, and my new F32, Everyone of the car owners drove the cars, no one felt that the F32 was in anyway behind the E92 in the actual driving department... We aren't pro's and we don't pretend to be know it alls, but we found the F32 to be a great drive and very similar to the previous two coupe generations.
 
#110 · (Edited)
Solving the "pothole explosion" issue requires more than a tire replacement.
Well I don't know about E93 (which is +400lbs) but it solved mine. The trick was to update the tire's height +1. I went from 225/40/18 to 225/45/18 (like the F30), minor displayed speed difference. Problem solved and I didn't change my shocks for something else than OEM. I bent and had to repair three 18" wheels in my first 3.5 years and *none* since I made the change, more than 2 years ago.
 
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