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DIY: ATF change GM A5S-390R

152K views 155 replies 59 participants last post by  Edwagon 
#1 · (Edited)
At 85K on the odometer I decided to service my transmission, id est change oil and filter.

I was following this wonderful DIY by james2538 from E46f:

http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=438667&highlight=atf+change

I took my own pictures and did the write-up below. Later I'll either update this thread or do a separate DIY on how to put the car on 4 jack stands.

My 02 325i is equipped with GM transmission, A5S 390R-ZP in the BMW nomenclature or 5L40E in the GM nomenclature. The pan has a blue sticker with the oil part #: 83220024359 which is Texaco ETL 8072B oil. I decided to use the original type of oil and did not regret it and let me explain why. First of all I need to say that getting hold of ETL 8072B oil is getting more and more difficult since dealerships do not carry it any more because it has been replaced with Dexron VI oil. Some dealerships still have some of 8072B in stock though. The closest to me in St. Louis is Plaza Motors and they had about 9 litres left in stock, $ 9,11 per half litre. Mark, the parts guy brought the 25 L container to the counter (and I had a chance to make sure the big container had the right label "Texaco ETL 8072B" and the correct part #) and sold me 6 litres by pouring it into my own containers (I had three 2L containers with me). No wonder they do not recommend mixing this oil with other types! The color of this oil is dark brown with a tint of gold and not red like most of the ATF I've seen before. The viscosity of it looked to me thicker than the Dex fluid and more like that of motor oil. Mark and me compared this oil and GM Dexron VI at the sales counter and they did look like 2 different types of fluid based on visual observation of color and viscosity. That's all I base my opinion on, I have neither time nor interest to investigate into chemical composition of BMW oil versus other ATF. I do not regret buying the original, more expensive oil for the peace of mind. If my transmission fails some time in the future at least I'll know it's not because of the wrong fluid in it.

The evening before starting on the process of ATF change I put the car on 4 jack stands. I put the front wheels on ramps and jacked up the rear under the U-brace in front of the differential. Put the jack stands under the rear jack points and lowered the rear of the car onto the jack stands. Then I jacked the front of the car up under the right front point of the "frame rail" and put 2 jack stands under the front jack points and lowered the front.

First thing to do was to unscrew the fill plug. I used a T-45 socket and an 8mm combination wrench. The torque of this plug is 15 ft. lb (20nm), so using the open end was not enough to loosen it up, it kept coming off the torx bit. But I was successful with using the box end of the wrench inserted onto the torx bit and an extension for the additional leverage. The drain plug (T-40) presented no problem to unscrew, so in 10 minutes the oil was partially drained. Some still remained in the pan and inside the filter. At this point I put the drain plug back in and torqued it to 15 lb. ft. The next step was to remove the pan (unscrew all the bolts using a 10mm socket and pry it with the flat screwdriver if it's stuck), let all the remaining oil drip into the pan, remove the filter by pulling down on it with both hands, drain the oil in the pan and inside the filter into the drain container for the final estimate of the amount of evacuated oil. A note on the condition of the drained oil. The old oil was not completely black as many report. Definitely looked like a used oil after 85K but still retained some of its golden brownish color. If you compare it to a bright red AFT like Dex III or VI, it does look bad, but comparing it to fresh 8072B the difference is not that dramatic. I'm not sure about lifetime, but I got the impression it could easily last till 100K when BMW recommends it to be changed.

The amount of oil I was able to evacuate is as follows. The car was absolutely cold when I was doing the procedure. About 1.5 L drained after opening the fill plug. About 2.5 L came out with the drain plug removed. That's 4 liters. 1 litre was in the pan after I dropped it and waited till all the oil dripped into it from the filter. That's 5 litres. The old filter still contained about 0.25 L of oil when I removed it and tilted in the drain container. So the total amount was 5.25 L of oil.

The pan needs to be cleaned thoroughly. Mine did not look awful after 85K but still needed a good cleaning job, especially around the magnet. I used paper towels and a rag. When I removed the old gasket there was some rubber stuck to the edge of the pan. I removed it with some brake cleaner and then wiped dry with a rag. The idea is to not introduce any debris, lint, etc into the transmission.

It's time to replace the gasket lubing it with some ATF and start assembling everything back together. First goes in the new filter. When the old one came out the orange sealing ring is likely to have remained stuck in the transmission in which case it needs to be pried with a screwdriver, removed and discarded. With the new filter in place reattach the pan using new bolts. The torque of the bolts is 8 ft. lb, so there is hardly any need for a torque wrench but I did return to each bolt at least 3 times to make sure everything was tight.

Filling the transmission with new oil. The amount of oil I used to fill the transmission was 5.5 L, but the actual amount that came in was about the same as I drained ***8211; 5.25 L. This is due to the fact that no matter how careful you are during the filling process, there will be some spillage.

This is how my filling process looked like. 5.25 L of oil came out. The transmission was still cold when I started pumping the fresh fluid in. I filled my pump bottle with a pre-measured amount of 2 litres of new fluid at a time. 4 litres came in and it began overflowing. Some spillage occurred at this point. I screwed the fill plug back in (hand tight), started the car and shifted through the gears 5 times to let the oil get sucked into the transmission from the pan. In about 5-10 minutes the pan became warm to the touch. I opened the fill plug and nothing came out (as I expected, remember 5.25 L came out and only 4 L came in so far). I started pumping the oil again. Taking into consideration the amount spilled and the amount that would be spilled when it overflows this time I poured 1.5 L in my pump bottle instead of 1.25 L. The pan was becoming a little bit warmer but still far from hot, so I was still good. I was right in my estimate of the amount of oil spilled because when I was almost done with my bottle filled with 1.5 L it started overflowing and I put the fill plug back and tightened it really good using the extension on my 8mm combination wrench for additional leverage. That's it. Not a difficult but messy project.

If there is a tricky part about this DIY, that definitely would be to be able to estimate accurately the amount of oil spilled during the filling process. Provided the transmission never leaked and still has the original (filled at the factory) amount of fluid, the same amount needs to filled into it as drained. When the transmission is at the right temperature and the oil overflows, it's the indicator it's ready to be plugged up. However when it happens you still want to be sure the amount filled is the same the amount drained, provided last time it was filled at the factory. Such a simple thing as a transmission dip stick would eliminate the need for any guess work, but alas.

After I'm done with this DIY I've come to a couple of conclusions for myself. First, now I do not share the opinion that some people have that the information BMW gives us on the type of oil to use and its changing interval is a marketing conspiracy. To me ETL 8072B did look different than the red colored Dexron ATF. So I personally would not mix it with Dexron unless I know how to displace all the oil to the last drop and replace it with a different type. And, second, regarding the changing interval, judging by the condition of the drained oil that still remained some of its original color, I'd say it is good enough at least till 100K without a change.























EDIT: Ok, after reading this diy at least one person was confused as to when you need to put the fill plug back in. I agree I should have made this point clearer in the write-up. So here we go. The transmission is at the operating temperature (30 ***8211; 50 Cº) and you are doing the final fill. As soon as it starts overflowing ***8211; you are done and need to put the fill plug back in. Yes, there will be some oil spilling out, making a mess. That's fine. It means you've reached the correct level providing the temperature is still between 30 and 50 Cº. My advice is to have the drain pan ready and fill plug handy when overflowing happens. It took me a little while to get everything together so I plugged it up when the overflow was reduced to dripping. To me it seems better to do it when the oil is still trickling rather then dripping out. Also when the oil started overflowing I still had some a small amount of ATF that had to (according to my calculations) go in. So I kept on pumping for a little longer despite the fact that it was already overflowing and then when all ATF was used I put the fill plug in.
Hope this edit helps to clarify this point.
 
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#39 · (Edited)
Excellent write up Starless:)
I finally did mine yesterday. At 99,340 miles and 10 years in desert heat, I was very pleased at how clean the fluid was. I used Casrtol Import Multi-ATF fluid. Everything seems fine, with basically no change, just that I feel better for having finally gotten it done. Now for the diff fluid and RTabs. (And another full brake job is coming up)
Here's a few pics:





 
#40 ·
Thanks for pictures, tamvegas. Your original fluid was Texaco ETL 7045E and it does not look that bad at all after 100K (unless it was changed before).

Good job!
 
#43 · (Edited)
i did used fully synthetic oil of dexron VI instead the original (and i dont know what was in it 7045E/8072)
at the dealer they wanted 46$ for a liter of original bmw oil (you can buy only 20 liter) - SUX so i bought dexron VI fully synthetic for 13.5$ a liter - also very expensive but bare-able.
oils are so expensive and rare here and cost alot to import.
i wanted D4ATF they wanted:
D4-gallons $41.95 each (i wanted 3 ) so ...125.85$
Shipping $180.00

Total(Redline D4ATF) : 305.85$
Total(Dexron VI hicksoils) : 155$
 
#45 ·
Leaks and the correct level (quantity) of trans fluid is pretty much all you can check. Change it again when you get the opportunity. They make aftermarket drain plug kits that make fluid draining much easier. You may want to look into that. :thumbup:
 
#49 ·
I think the flash made my old ATF fluid look much cleaner than it was. I took a couple pics of A/B (old ATF from the drain container vs fresh Castrol Import Multi ATF).



 
#51 ·
What a great thread! Thanks to all who have contributed. I agree with Starless's reasoning as to why he used the original type ATF. However, since you can't get anywhere near all the ATF out with a single drain, wouldn't a reasonable, cost-effective yet safe alternative be to drain the original fluid, fill with Dexron VI, drive it for a short time (maybe a week or two), then repeat the process once or twice? This way, you'd replace most of the original fluid with the Dexron VI, which is probably better ATF, and minimize the compatibility concerns by doing the multiple flushes (which you'd probably want to do even if you're using the original type fluid to thoroughly replace the old with the new). The only thing I'm not sure of is whether to replace the filter during the first flush, or the last.
 
#60 ·
When I did this, for the final fill you'd start the car and go through P=>D and let it stay in each position for a few seconds before going to the next for about 10-15 times. Make sure the car is still running when you do the final fill. And I left mine in park.
 
#63 ·
First, I would like to thank Starless for a great writeup. Very informative and helpful.

I have a '99 232i (8/1998 build date) that started having transmission problems. It would intermittently go into safe mode for what seemed like no apparent reason. I would shut of the car, wait a minute, and start it back up and everything would be fine. Over time this got more prevalent until it was happening quite often. There was also sometime a lag when putting the car into gear that seemed to be occurring more frequently.

The car has 127,000 miles and was still on the original transmission fluid. After much research and debating with myself, I finally decided to go ahead and do a fluid/filter change. The transmission is an A5S 360R (GM 5L40E). The green sticker on the pan called for Dexron III fluid (not the Texaco stuff), and I double checked with the dealership and they confirmed any Dexron III fluid. So...more research about GM transmissions and transmission fluid to use. After a lot of reading, and more debating with myself, I finally settled on trying Castrol Dexron VI.

I just changed out the fluid yesterday, which thanks to Starless's writeup (and having access to a lift so I did not need to crawl underneath the car) was fairly easy, and and it now seems like a whole new car. There is no longer a delay putting the car into gear, shifts are smoother, and no matter how much I try I cannot get the transmission to go into safe mode. Time will only tell if the issue is truly fixed or if I have only temporary covered up the problem, but so far so good.
 
#64 ·
Congratulations! I'm glad it worked out for you.

I have another write-up concerning early GM automatics. I'm hoping you will never need it or at least will not need it for a very long time. But they are known for losing the reverse gear. The problem is the thin aluminum of their valve body casting. Just something to keep in mind and the write up can be found here: click on me
 
#65 ·
Fellas,

Just wanted to contribute and let everyone know that I just changed my ATF using this tutorial -- I used Castrol Import Multi-Vehicle ATF and the Meisterstatz kit. No problems at all thanks to the great tutorial. I had 52,860 miles on the car and after a week I'd say it drives exactly the same. Probably a little early to change the ATF, but I was eager to do it. Thanks again Starless.

-Brian
 
#66 · (Edited)
You are welcome. I'd also do a couple of more drain and fill changes to displace most of the old fluid. I think Castrol Import is a good choice of the alternative ATF. It apparently contains the bouquet of friction modifiers quite similar to those in the original Texaco fluid.

A little off bmw topic but I've just finished ATF change for our van. It's so much easier to have a dipstick and be Dex III compatible. I did it without dropping the pan and filter change and it took 10 minutes :) I also used Castrol Import since it's recommended for the original Nissan Matic D fluid which is basically Dex 3 with some boutique friction modifiers.
 
#72 ·
Hello all.

First of all thanks for the great write up Starless.

Second, I have a question. I had my ATF fluid changed by a reputable local indy (Curry's Auto, Falls Church, VA) at 95K miles. They used a trans flush machine, so the pan was not dropped and the filter not changed. They also used BG Universal ATF. Details at http://www.bgprod.com/blendr/syntheticATF.html. I have not been able to find much detail on this fluid.

While researching the issue of idle dipping when changing from Park/Neutral to Reverse/Drive, I ran across the large number of threads reporting reverse failure on the ZF 5HP19, which is what I believe I have. I have a 2001 330i (produced June 2000). And I am becoming partially paranoid about the transmission.

I was contemplating replacing the fluid again with one of the appropriate fluids listed by forum members. I was thinking about draining the fluid from the fill/drain plugs and dropping the pan, replacing the filter, but refilling through the trans cooler lines using a hand operated air pump, in order to replace all of it at once. I have not seen any one on here taking that approach.

I just wanted to run it by everyone else here to get their opinions about what they thought. If not this, then I would have to drop the pan and replace the fluid at least 3 times to get close to all new fluid in there.

Please advise. Thanks in advance.
 
#74 ·
I have heard about this way of doing this (thru the lines) and about the people who have done it this way but I'd really need to research it more to do it myself, however theoretically it make sense and so on. But instead of your idea of hand operated pump it's usually done by starting the car and letting the transmission pump circulate the atf untill fresh fluid comes out. Well, I've never tried it and I'm not sure I want to mess with it.

However what I am going to do next time is disconnect both lines from the transmission cooler and let the ATF drain from them and from the cooler with the purpose of draining still more fluid.

And by the way, you do have ZF I believe, my write up is for GM, but Torquewrench has an awesome write up for ZF in DIY section of the forum. ZFs are known for weak reverse drum. There is a Reverse Drum Replacement DIY on fanatics. GMs' reverse problem is the wear and failure of certain valve body components due to the thin aluminium used for making the GM valve body. The replacement of the valve body and/or installation of the Sonnax valve body kits solve this problem in case of the GM transmission. ZFs often need a reverse drum though.
 
#73 ·
If u get a chance could u put up a pic or something pointing these lines out? I'm planning on doing the fluid in the next few days. Already have the ATF and filter/gasket. Prolly gonna get to it Saturday.
 
#75 ·
moiz21,

please refer to the images below.

GM Transmission - http://www.realoem.com/bmw/diagrams/u/v/54.png

ZF Transmission - http://www.realoem.com/bmw/diagrams/e/e/25.png

The lines I am referring to are parts 4 and 5. The are connected to the heat exchanger, which cools the fluid.

Alex,

I thought about that, but I was skeptical about draining the fluid from the pan, and then starting the car. Wouldn't that starve the fluid pump? I am not sure how exactly the fluid is pumped around in the trans. Is it a pump with vanes, or some other kind of vacuum suction system. Also, I was a little concerned that the fluid may flow too fast if I used the trans pump itself, didn't wanna make a mess.

Although I am doubtful if any hand operated pump would be able to create enough pressure to completely circulate through all the nooks and crannies of the valve body.

I also read up about the types of failures and recently ran into the ZF rebuild thread. It gave me a lot of relief to see that.

BTW, has anyone heard of/used the BG Universal ATF? Experiences?

Thanks a lot guys.

--Kiran.
 
#76 ·
if you were to do this via the trans cooler lines, you wouldn't first drain the ATF, because you have no way of knowing how much fluid is pumped back in and you would be sucking air anyway. Unless of course you open the fill plug in which case, why bother with the lines in the first place. There is a Youtube video where some guy changed his Honda Accord ATF using this method. From memory, he just disconnected the lines, put the return in a bucket of new ATF and the output into a catch bucket and watched for the change in color. He also had a dipstick though to check the ATF levels when he was done, which our cars do not have. I would also think it would require more new ATF because you wouldn't know exactly how much new would need to be available before it starts to run clear. So, quite a bit of waste there.
 
#77 ·
I want to drop the pan, because I want to replace the fluid filter and clean out the gunk from the pan and magnets. This will allow me to change about 60-65% of the total fluid in the system. Which means I will have to drain/drop pan, refill, atleast 3 times to get almost 100% clean new fluid in the trans. I don't wanna do it that many times, I can't spare the time. And the fluid isnt exactly cheap.

I want to use the lines, because it gives me access to all the fluid in the first try, including the fluid in the torque converter as well. The fluid that will come out of the fill hole, the drain hole, the pan drop, the filter and the transmission lines can all be measured, thats not really a problem. If you are concerned about the correct fluid level then thats not so hard either. The system is supposed to be a closed system. Even if I introduce air into it by droping the pan, disconnecting lines, because I will be using pressure, all the air will be replaced by fluid. And I will make sure to add exactly as much fluid as come out.

The only time fluid level would be a problem, if the equipment I use has leaks or cannot create/deal with the pressure. Which should not be too much since I plan on using a manual pump.

What do you guys think of this: MV7201 - http://www.mityvac.com/pages/products_fee.asp#07201

--Kiran
 
#78 ·
Kiran, these are my considerations why I would not do it the way you are planning to do it.

So, you plan to drop the pan, change filter and start manually pumping fluid thru the transmission via lines...Correct?

First, I'm not even sure the ATF will come all the way through without the internal transmission pump moving.

Second, you will most likely overfill the unit which is a bad thing.

Third, by pumping the ATF through the transmission with Mityvac pump, I do not think the ATF will run the route it usually runs inside the transmission, thus creating the risk of damage inside the unit.

Me personally, I'd totally not do it like this. Just my 2 cents worth though.

This is the way I'd do it. But it will use 2 times more ATF.

1. Before dropping the pan and changing the filter, I'd disconnect the lines, put the supply line in the big bucket with plenty of fresh ATF, connect the return line to some clear tubing and put it in the drain container

2. Let the helper start the car and tell him/her to shut it off as soon as clean ATF begins coming out of the return line. Now the unit is flushed (naturally so to say, not power flushed). Reconnect the lines.

3. Drop the pan and change filter. (Yes, the drawback is that you lose half of the fresh ATF that you just put in).

4. Fill using the standard procedure making sure the level is where it should be.

In the case of the complete flush you do not need to use the super expensive OEM fluid (because you are replacing all the fluid), in case of GM, Dex VI would sound like a good idea to me.

Let us know what you decide to do and how it will have worked for you.
 
#80 ·
I am sooo glad I have a manual trans now. 2 qts of any one of a dozen brands of lube and a hand pump, 10 minutes later I am done. And Starless is correct, if you don't have the car running and the pump working, your method of fluid exchange wont work.
 
#82 ·
Outstanding writeup. A question for Starless. I have the same tranny filled with ETL8072B. I'm guessing I won't be able to find it since the fluid has been superseded by BMW. So any thoughts about what I should use? From what I've read, I don't like the idea of mixing fluids, but I'm not sure I'll have any choice. Thank you.
 
#83 ·
You know what...I hate mixing fluids too, but that's what I'm going to do soon. Drain fluid, disconnect AT cooler lines to drain even more fluid, leave over night to drain even more fluid and then fill with Dex VI, drain after a couple of days and fill with Dex VI again and be happy.

Dex VI is the fluid :thumbup:
 
#85 · (Edited)
My car is 2004 330xi automatic, GM A5S390R P/N on the transmission is the 8320024359 Texeco ETL 872B This part number has been superceded by 83-22-0-397-114 which is nothing more than Dexron VI. ANy high quality Dexron VI will be fine for the XIs GM tranny (discussion with the dealer). My question to you, I still have the original fluid in my tranny never been changed and my car currently at 125K. What do you think about mixing the fluids. Old ETL 872B (left in the torque converter) with the new Dexron VI. I know you have a similar car and you've already completed this job. Did you have any issues, problems, concerns? Did you use the synthetic Dexron and what type, the dealer suggested the valvoline?! How many time should I change the mixed fluid to get rid of all the old fluid? Where did you get the filter kit and how much? Thanks for sharing your experience.

How long since you changed the fluid?! did you change it once or multiple times?

The bolt you mentioned that made it easy, is it on the driver side or the passenger side and did you use the Allen torx T45, or the socket?

I've been looking and searching all over the internet for an answer, you're the first one who experienced the AT oil change with an XI and 2003 and an automatic.

Oh, the Dealer told me that they will use Dexron VI if I had to service the car at their dealer and they will charge $500.00, just drain and not a complete flush !!!!!

Thanks Again and sorry for the too many questions!
 
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