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LQ9 into E39 Swap

131K views 491 replies 71 participants last post by  540 Hammer 
#1 ·
after seeing many awesome threads on here featuring E39s with LSX power, i decided to go ahead and do my own. i love the M62, but:

-not enough power
-too complicated
-too expensive to fix
-Vanos is knocking hard
-no potential for making easy cheap power

So, after researching, I've decided to go with a truck/SUV style motor due to price and availability over the more popular aluminum candidates. I like the idea of higher compression for NA application, so I will be going with an LQ9 (6.0 iron block, aluminum heads). seems that they are most readily available in 2002-2006 Escalade, so i'm searching for one now. tranny will be T56--anyone have any recommendations as to where to look for one besides car-part.com? maybe LS1Tech?

i have my eye on a local LQ9 from LKQ, but they want a $350 core charge. i obviously have no motor to give them to avoid that. for those of you who used LKQ, did you pay this charge?

i will be fabricating my own exhaust and mounts. will use Camaro SS manifolds and adapt them to the OEM exhaust, like rao did.

i have no clue where to start off with wiring. all i know is that i'll need the Escalade PCM (or can i use any fbody PCM?), and the harness. i'm stupid when it comes to electronics.

picked up a few parts to kick things off.



came off a 1998 Trans Am (guy upgraded to a F.A.S.T. or something)



it came with a drive by cable throttle body--i will probably have to use a drive by wire depending on the PCM i end up using. not sure yet, i guess it's based on compatibility/ease.

i'm in the process of cleaning the oil pan. this is "before". it sat for a long time. came off a 98-02 F body. not sure if it'll fit, with the crossmember, but i guess i can always modify it. (i have access to a full fabrication/sheetmetal shop at work). it was a good deal so i couldn't turn it down.



removed the baffle for cleaning...see anything unusual besides the dirt?





this is my first time inside one of these motors, so i will have questions about things as i go along. oil level sensor? the dark red cylinder on the end of the sensor is loose and flopping around. is that normal, or will i have to replace it? maybe i can snag the one off the LQ9 truck pan when i buy that.



can someone tell me more about the oil pan gasket? it is bent in a few places and the rubber has separated from the steel in a few places too. i'd replace it, but it looks to be riveted to the pan in 2 places. don't get it.



oh, and here's what it's going in.



hope to do many many more of these.

 
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9
#68 ·
Pictures of your car is like ****** And I want to see more of it
 
#70 ·
Slow bits of progress here and there. Had a cousin in from out of town so was busy with him all weekend.

Picked up the heads from Klispies and they look great. Ended up removing .026” to get chambers down to 66cc. Picked up new valve stem seals and threw those in. I installed the valve springs, keepers, and retainers on Saturday, so those are all set.

Painted the block gunmetal gray, will have to snap a few pics of that if I remember.

Had a line on a really nice built T56 and clutch/fw setup on St Catherines, but it fell through. I still need to sell the BMW trans.
 
#71 ·
Things are looking up!

found a T56 from a 2002 Camaro SS in Pittsburgh just 3 hours from me. It's said to be in good working condition and includes trans, bellhousing, crossmember (though i wont use that) and hydraulic slave.

best part is it's under $1000! so, my fiancee and i will be hopping in the station wagon and going on a day trip to grab it.

i will end up rebuilding the trans to be on the safe side, but this is great news because this means i can finally start mocking up the mounts and pan.

Also, heads are done. Klispie's shaved them down .026" (cc'd to put me at 66cc). They did a really nice job cleaning them up and repairing one of the exhaust bolt holes. I installed the LS6 yellow springs and retainers with my homemade tool (let me know if you'd like to borrow it) and they look good.



 
#72 ·
so, here's the trans i'm looking at. before i drive all the way down there i'd like to make sure it's LS1 application.

i don't think the case casting number can tell me the origin (1386-065-902).

i have the seller working on getting me pictures of the sticker and the metal tag under the bolt on the rear extension housing.

in the meantime, can anyone here with a trained eye tell me if this is LS1 application T56, and how can they tell? maybe the bellhousing?

i'm not a GM guy but the trans crossmember looks LS1 application.









 
#73 · (Edited)
Spend some time running around town yesterday picking up flange head metric bolts for the T56-motor connection. Fastenal and a local specialty contractors supply store did not stock them, but Sears Hardware did, go figure.

Mated up the motor just for fun. I***8217;m going to mock up the mounts once I settle on an oil pan (still need to think about that one) and while I***8217;m taking care of the harness and wiring, I***8217;ll have it sent out to have Jason @ TDP look over it. Super nice guy, by the way.



Laid the heads down on it just for mockup. The next step is to buy all the gaskets for reassembly, the motor is ready to be put back together.

I put it in the bay just for sh*ts and giggles. For some reason at the time (maybe it was the fact that I was tired from work all day, or had a few too many beers) I was convinced that the shifter was supposed to line up exactly with the hole. I didn***8217;t have an oil pan mounted at the time, but if I did, it would not have agreed with that idea. I***8217;ll get into the garage tonight and play with it some more.



Measuring driveline angles will be crappy, because the nose of the car only is on jackstands. The car is too low when it sits normally, the engine hoist legs hit the lower control arms when plopping the engine in. May just have to take the angle of the car and then subtract it from my measurements.
 
#76 ·
I went down to Home Depot on lunch a few days ago and bought (2) 2x6x8' planks, as well as a 2x2x8' strip. Cut up the planks into 1' lengths and doubled them up for 4" tall, 6" wide, 12" long "support spacers" as I like to call them. I also left a few of them loose for when I'm resting the motor on the crossmember for fitment.

I made a huge for sale thread on here and a few other boards, already sold the F Body oil pan, shipping that out today. Bought an LS1 Camaro water pump and starter from one person, a GTO oil pan from another, and ARP Headbolts/assembly lube from Summit Racing. Also grabbed the 6.0 MLS headgaskets from gmpartsdirect. Once I get the heads back on and torqued I can finally mock up the motor since I'll have the oil pan.
 
#77 ·
Nothing much to report, just little things I'm getting together.

Sold both my BMW diffs (2.81 and 3.15), both MAFs, the base rails of my roof rack, and the Camaro (rear sump) oil pan.

I received my ARP head bolts, GM MLS 6.0 headgaskets, LS1 harmonic balancer, starter, water pump, and GTO oil pan over the last week. The top end of the engine is ready to go back together, but the machine shop lost the dowels in the heads, so I had to special order 3 of those (1 was left in the block). Can't assemble it until they get in this weekend. Once I do get those I can finally put the heads back on and torque them down, as well as replace both front and rear main seals as well as a ton of other gaskets I bought. At that point I can put the intake manifold on, and it'll start to look like a real motor (good timing, because I need to know where I'll have issues for fabbing the motor mounts).

On Saturday, I put the car on some 2x6s I nailed together to raise the car off the ground at all 4 corners. I eyeballed the rough dimensions of the cut on the GTO pan and notched it, test fit, and found that I still need to notch the horizontal portion some more in order for the nose of the motor to come down a few more degrees. With the shifter roughly where it needs to be, the engine is pointing 6* down at the back--I am going for 3*. Having a digital inclinometer accurate to a tenth of a degree is awesome. The motor/pan is resting on a 1" board, so maybe it's a bit overkill as far as spacing from the crossmember, but I am assuming the new stock rubber engine mounts will squish down some when the weight of the drivetrain comes down onto them.

My right angle grinder backing plate fell apart, and Home Depot was already closed, so I wasn't able to finish trimming the pan. Today on lunch I went to the store and picked up the proper backing plate/ring along with an 11/32" drill bit, which I'll need to drill out the boss on the block for the alternator to mount to. I have the LQ4 truck alternator as it came with my motor, but is it the same type as the LS1 style? It looks like any old small car-style alternator. I'll have to see if there's a part number on it and cross reference to see if I can reuse it. I'm still on the hunt for a cheap OEM LS1 alternator bracket.

Buying a used LS1 power steering pump was ehhhhhhhhh, so I found a nice cheap one on Rockauto and grabbed that. I still have to find a pulley. Might yank the pulley off the truck PS pump (if I even still have that in the piles of parts) and see if it's the same diameter (I would assume so).

I had the sheet metal shop at work punch me out a few engine plates, bolted those to the motor. I also grabbed some short lengths of 2" square thick wall tube steel out of the scrap bin, those will be used to make up the driver's side mount around the steering box. I did a rough "from memory" sketch on CAD at work of the driver's side mount. The passenger side will be easier, should be just one length (straight shot from the engine plate to the rubber isolator). My little farmhand MIG welder is wayyyy too ****ty to actually weld all the way through and get full penetration so I'll just be tacking the **** out of it and having the shop at work weld it all up for me. exhaust should be okay to weld due to the thinner wall pipe, I'm just a crappy welder, but this will be good practice.

Should have some spare time tomorrow on my day off to finish trimming the GTO pan, maybe start to cut up the tube steel to make the mounts.
 
#79 ·
:rofl: i like the plate idea
 
#80 ·
ask and ye shall receive...snapped this one after wrestling with the motor



i was thinking about this for a plate when i'm done...



finished cutting up the pan, it clears the crossmember now.







slapped it on the block.

placed a 1" thick piece of wood under the pan to simulate space between pan and crossmember, and a 1"x1" piece under the pan on top of the steering linkage.





unfortunately, the motor needs to be forward enough to make the oil pan happy above the crossmember, but this makes the shifter pissed off. it's about 3" forward of the shifter hole in the unibody. had to modify the stock shifter to allow the rear of the trans to come up vertically as much as possible, to give me the right driveline angle. it was hitting the inside of the trans tunnel, making the rear of the trans point down at a 8* angle. i might use a GTO shifter (offset to the rear by a bit compared to the Camaro one).

stock:


moved the shifter rod down "one hole"


cut a top inch or so off, bought me some room.
 
#81 ·
what do you mean? it's all set as far as cutting it up so i'll have the guys at work cut out aluminum patches and TIG it for me.

---------- Post added at 08:43 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:34 PM ----------

slapped the inclinometer on the bottom of the car on the frame rail, only place where the car was parallel with the ground.





that's with the nose pointing up.

after cutting the shifter i got this.



rough height in the bay. rotation along the crank axis is a bit off obviously but i'll fix that the next time i work on the car.

 
#82 ·
so, let's begin with tonight's pleasant atmosphere! before i fired up the heater it was 32, as i finished up for the evening i snapped this.



i really wasn't happy with the pinion angle, and the only thing that could give was the shifter moving up into the tunnel. so i enlarged the shifter hole forward about 3-4".

fun fact....burning tunnel insulation smells like pickles



so this places the engine fore/aft roughly where it will be, give or take half an inch.

head to AC line:


tight spot by the steering box, 2" square tube is very very tight, i will end up notching the mount around there to avoid any contact if/when the motor moves back and forth.



this gave us a better angle than last night. remember that i'm subtracting 1.2 degrees of the car's nose pointing up.



grabbed some stock from the scrap bin at work and put a 90* bend in it with the vise. cut up the stock shifter rod (where the knob threads on) and welded on the threaded portion to the stock. i purposely left it tall so i can cut it down later to my liking. i actually really like it tall, gives it that old muscle car feel.



with das boot on it:



tomorrow i'd like to finalize the location of the motor and start to make the mounts.
 
#83 ·
It's looking sharp man! Keep up the good work :)

What's your anticipated time of completion of this project? I'm trying to get anything I'm working on wrapped up by end of spring so that I can enjoy them during the summer... Though I admit I'm not doing anything as ambitious as an engine swap ;-)
 
#86 ·
appreciate the nice comments guys. doing the best i can with what i have, i'm fully self taught.

decided to not use a GTO shifter since using a steel bar gives me the flexibility to bend the shifter however i want as well as shorten and lengthen it.

final engine placement. measured pinion angle for the final time, centered motor left to right both at the crank snout and at the trans output.



compound angle i'll have to cut


beginning of driver's side mount. the notch is to clear the steering box bolts. it's 2" tube steel.

 
#87 ·
been busy over the last few days.

3 cutoff wheels, a lot of 2" tube steel, lots of trial and error, and we have mounts!

everything as of now is just tacked into place for 2 reasons:

1: my 115V welder doesn't have the balls to penetrate the thick wall steel
2: i'm a really ****ty welder

i will be grinding down the mounts and wirewheeling them to prep them for full welding, which i'll have one of the guys at work do.



looking at it now, that trans mount looks a bit crooked. tomorrow i will realign it and re-tack.



 
#88 ·
Looks great man. Questions I had

Cost so far? My engine is most likely fried so I might be in the market for a swap.

Estimated HP?

Forced Induction in the future?
 
#89 · (Edited)
i have funded a majority of the swap from selling BMW parts that were in good shape; this was the plan from the very beginning (as it gets very expensive!)

i probably earned over $2000 from selling my M62, 2 differentials, a few MAF sensors, roof rack, winter wheels, and a few other trinkets.

on the flip side, the whole motor, harness, intake system, etc from a 2003 Chevy Express cost me $900 delivered (bought it privately on CL from a guy who tears down wrecked vehicles).

T56 in "said to be ok" condition for $900, but i plan on having TDP look over it and rebuild if necessary (budgeted $1000 for this)

new Diamond clutch and OEM flywheel for $300.

Rebuilt the LQ4 top end--this cost me probably $500-$700 in parts, gaskets, and machine work

Other odds and ends, probably $1000 (valvesprings, LS2 cam, manifolds, etc)

I do still have my BMW 6 speed 540 trans for sale, so that well help offset future expenses.

Of course, none of this includes labor--I have done everything on my own so far. Completely disassembly of car, removal of M62, prep for new motor, measurements, all fabrication of mounts from scratch (I got the steel from my job for free, so factor that in as well). I have all kinds of goodies in the garage-grinders, saws, cutoff wheels, a MIG welder, so if you plan on putting together your own mounts and headers, you'd need fabrication equipment too.

I probably have many hours wrapped up in this already.

Estimated power will be maybe between 325 and 350whp. Only "mods" are higher compression due to milled heads, some sort of cold air intake, and custom headers (since I couldn't use the factory truck cast iron manifolds).

Looking at the size of the engine bay, a turbo is definitely doable. Perhaps in the next few years. I am buying a house in the next 6 months, and getting married next year, so money isn't exactly growing on trees.

More than likely once it's all running correctly, I will slap a nice 150 shot on it for fun in the summer.
 
#90 ·
cleaned up the front cover, valve covers, and the coil brackets.



shot them with wrinkle black. just threw them on, it looks ok. i was shooting for a more wrinkly finish, but they may still be curing.



got the shifter all situated. i like the height of it, if it proves to be a PITA to drive with it's 2 bolts to remove it and cut/reweld. the weld ring underneath the knob will be ground down. i also want to use round rod instead of the square stock that i used for a cleaner look in cabin. this was for mock up.

the shifter height and knob is certainly yeehaw!







good news, the hood closes over the intake.





 
#91 ·
I admire your skills. Is the shifter awkward that high? I don't know why but I like the OEM shifter better. Maybe like most OEM stuff it was designed for that specific car.
 
#95 ·
Halfway through building manifolds/headers now. 2-1/4” mandrel bent mild steel that will be welded to the OEM BMW ball flange for compatibility with the stock exhaust. The 1 piece BMW headerback exhaust is staying almost nearly stock, with the exceptions of the modifications I made to it over the last year or two, which includes a 3” QTP cutout y –pipe before the Y-res, deleted scuba tanks, and Y-res converted to M5 style by adding a turndown in the “dead end” portion (dual dumps now instead of single). If you count the cutout pipe, I actually have 3 dumps underneath the car. I plan on welding a 3 bolt flange (have a few laying around) to the Y-res dumps so that I can tune the exhaust sound to my liking by simply adding a cap-off plate where necessary.

I was searching for a stock LS1 fuel rail/injectors online, and stumbled upon a screaming deal for an LS6 intake, throttle body, higher flowing Ford injectors, and OEM fuel rail for $300 shipped. Can’t beat that. It’ll be here tomorrow.

Took the day off on MLK Jr day. Bundled up with my fiancée (only about 20*F here this week) and drove out to the metal yard to scrap the BMW pre-cats in the headers. $75 for both.

Next stop was the junkyard. Grabbed a set of 8 EV1 injector pigtails and 90* intake elbow off a 1998 Cadillac Deville, a set of slim(ish) cooling fans out of a 2005ish Monte Carlo (along with mounting brackets, rubber isolators, and harness/pigtails), and a M60 intake manifold off an E32 that I will sell. I may be back to grab a few more things off the E32, namely the magnesium valve covers, the OEM HID headlights, a sidemarker, and anything else that I can sell. What an odd design throughout that engine bay. Brake booster by the headlights, coolant tank by the cowl, front hinged hood. Cool stuff.

Wish we had more euro-based u-pull yards locally, I forgot how much fun (and how cheap) it was to go “pickin”.
 
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