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Keeping Your 3 Series Origami Top in Tip Top Shape

743K views 564 replies 155 participants last post by  guaporas 
#1 · (Edited)
A special thanks to fun2drive for his huge contribution :thumbup::thumbup:

Okay folks, you asked for it, here it is. In response to everyone who has asked for a Sticky on how to maintain the seals and keep the moving parts of the convertible hardtop lubricated, fun2drive and I have put our heads together and assembled a DIY. Much of this is based on experience, but we have also tried to get as much input as possible from dealership service techs and the photo documentation included is the direct result of my E93 having just been in for a full dealership hardtop lubrication and adjustment.
We welcome contributions of tips and tricks picked up along the way. As always, comments and questions are great. The intent is to have a one-stop resource for people looking for information on keeping the folding hardtop well maintained and problem free.

Probably one of the greatest concerns of any E93 owner is how to keep their folding hardtop free of creaks, squeaks, wind noise and heaven forbid water leaks. If you own one, you are at least marginally aware that there are literally hundreds of parts in the form of seals, hinges, locks, hydraulics, and microswitches that must all work in perfect harmony to deliver the 22 seconds to nirvana top down experience. So, how to keep things running smoothly:

• Keep the rubber seals lubricated and moisturized.
• Secondly, but equally important is to keep the moving joints well lubricated and dust free.
• Listen to your top. For those who acquired their E93s new, think back to what the top sounded like when the car was brand new. If you acquired your car second hand, go to your local dealership and ask them if you can observe (that is listen) to the top of a brand new E93. It should be silky smooth with no squeaks, no jolts and no stickiness.
So, here are some tips and tricks to keeping your top in great shape.

Seal Lubrication:
There are two products routinely discussed when this topic comes up.

Gummi Pflege (which in German, literally translates to "Rubber Care") made by Einzett.

http://www.amazon.com/einszett-914806-Gummi-Pflege-Rubber/dp/B004B8GTQG

Krytox - specifically the GPL205 Grease made by Dupont. This is expensive stuff, but well worth every penny.

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias=aps&field-keywords=Krytox+gpl205



A couple of words about products to use on rubber seals: Silicon is a natural enemy of rubber. It makes rubber swell and fracture. Whether your tires or your door seals - do your car a favor, spend the few extra dollars to get good products.

Rubber Seal Lubrication:

The rubber seals on your top are very similar to your skin. They need moisture and protection or they will dry out and eventually crack. At the very least they will shrink with dehydration, or prematurely break down due to UV damage.

Gummi Pflege: The applicator is a little bulky. I found the on board applicator to be overkill for the narrow strips of rubber that make up the E93 lateral top seals (those rubber seals running from driver to passenger side).
As an alternative, I use "foam lollipops" available from either Autogeek or Detailed Image. I moisten the lollipop with the Gummi Pflege then run it along the length of the seal including the grooved area. I follow with a microfiber wrapped sponge to help spread the Gummi evenly and mop up any puddles.

Krytox:
This is best applied using your fingers and a little really does go along way. The best description I can use here is watch your wife or girlfriend the next time she applies lip balm or lip gloss. She will take a little tiny bit on the tip of her finger and smooth it all the way over her lips. Same thing applies here. It takes just a little bit to be smoothed the length of the seal.
You need to keep going over the area until you have a uniform thin coating over the entire seal area.
If you live in a cold area of the country and are trying to do this at temperatures below 60F, take a terry face cloth and get it wet with hot water. Wring it out then wrap it around the syringe applicator and let it sit for a few minutes. This will gently warm the Krytox and make it easier to apply. Alternatively, if it is in the tube, let it sit in a coffee mug of hot water for a few minutes to SOFTEN it.
DON'T stick it in the microwave. If you liquefy it, you may alter its properties.

So now that you know what to use and how to apply it, where does it go? For the seals that is pretty easy. If it's black and rubbery (soft and slightly squishy) and it's on either the front or rear edge of one of the top panels or it is between the front and rear passenger windows it is fair game. Pictures do a far better job of explaining it so here they are. Don't forget to use a little Krytox along the area where the side view mirrors mate with the A pillar.

















A quick word about the tensioning cords. While these are not something that can be lubricated or treated per se, it is of value to inspect them for wear. It seems that around MY 2011, the cords were upgraded to a more robust version as earlier cars exhibited fraying of these cords. My 2009 had the cords replaced under warranty in August 2011.
This is what the frayed cords look like and the points where they are the most visible.









The replaced cords are not as silky looking and are holding up much better.



Now for the hinges, locks, pins and slides: fun2drive is going to explain about lubricants and application techniques. We had a fortuitous photo -op in that my E93's top had developed a nasty little squeak and a bit of a catch or sticky spot when being returned to closed from the stowed (top open) position. It went to the dealership for a full lubrication. The photos were taken the day after the service visit, so we have a pretty clear understanding of the lube points as specified by BMW.
 
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#331 ·
Hardtop Stuck in the down position

Any one familiar with the problem of the hardtop getting stuck in the down position because it is not retracting completely LEVEL? As a result the side behind the drivers side is dipping inward toward the body of the car and getting stuck and has to be manually lifted by hand so the motor can continue it's operation. :)
 
#335 ·
Yes there is. There is a site glass that shows the fluid level. It is beyond this forum to try to explain how this can be checked but it requires taking most of the trunk floor out to gain access. Jerkiness caused by low fluid level causing the pump to cavitate is very possible. It would be more likely that the pulsing on opening since that is the largest load on the electro-hydraulic pack. Regardless there is site (E90) that had a member posting pdf's for downloading of the entire top system. I can't help my hard drive crashed and so long pdf's.

Others have replaced the electro-hydraulic pack so what we are talking about BMW would charge huge money for but if you are handy and can top the fluid level up (assuming the fluid is something that can be obtained- betting it is some Pentosin fluid). First order of business is to see if it is low. If it is that would also indicate a leak since the system is a closed system.
Sorry I can't help more but the pdf's were pretty informative...
 
#338 ·
I just had my roof motors replaced on my 2009 335i a few months ago. I bought the car from Vegas in 2013. It had 29K miles on it at the time I bought it and it was a lease that was bought by Tobin Motors - a high end Rolls, Bentley, Aston Dealer... I believe they knew the car had many issues just sprayed the paint job with a layer of clear coat which ended up encasing the previous scratches and I had to get the car repainted.

As for the roof, I used it way more than normal since I like is so much and I find excuses to drive the car for the most trivial things. So the motors went out. I got an extended warranty up to 100K and it was covered. The SA told me if I didn't have the warranty, I should just sell the car because it was not worth the cost of fixing the motors.

Basically, they replaced both hydraulic motors...which is apparently thousands of $$$.

Also, I just got a brand new engine replaced on warranty due to metal shards being pushed by back pressure into the engine...by the time I got to the dealership to have them inspect the noise, the car sounded like a construction crew doing road work.

Anyways, the car is basically brand new now all parts replaced except for the transmission. And in a couple of months after the break in period, Dinan Stage 3 will be installed.

I think I will be keeping her for a few more years!

Good luck with your repairs!
 
#346 ·
I just had my roof motors replaced on my 2009 335i a few months ago. I bought the car from Vegas in 2013. It had 29K miles on it at the time I bought it and it was a lease that was bought by Tobin Motors - a high end Rolls, Bentley, Aston Dealer... I believe they knew the car had many issues just sprayed the paint job with a layer of clear coat which ended up encasing the previous scratches and I had to get the car repainted.

As for the roof, I used it way more than normal since I like is so much and I find excuses to drive the car for the most trivial things. So the motors went out. I got an extended warranty up to 100K and it was covered. The SA told me if I didn't have the warranty, I should just sell the car because it was not worth the cost of fixing the motors.

Basically, they replaced both hydraulic motors...which is apparently thousands of $$$.

Also, I just got a brand new engine replaced on warranty due to metal shards being pushed by back pressure into the engine...by the time I got to the dealership to have them inspect the noise, the car sounded like a construction crew doing road work.

Anyways, the car is basically brand new now all parts replaced except for the transmission. And in a couple of months after the break in period, Dinan Stage 3 will be installed.

I think I will be keeping her for a few more years!

Good luck with your repairs!
Matreyia
Just out of curiosity, whose warranty did you get?
 
#339 ·
We've got a really good BMW dealership here, and I've gotten to know the techs and head mechanic. Although he told me there is no regularly scheduled maintenance on the retractable top, it's very complex and routine lubrication would seem to be in order. The head mechanic also told me that the tolerances on this complex piece of engineering are tiny. He had to do a whole series of classes just for that top! His advice: if you're ever hit from behind, sell the car.... the top will never work right again.
 
#344 ·
As expensive as the top is I would NOT take a change on anything but what BMW sells. Once you have the fluid you can research if there is a source that would be acceptable.
As I said before Pentosin is a likely fluid. Typical hydraulic fluid is usually 5 weight so that it still flows at low temps but has antifoam in it to keep it from foaming all over the place.
Once you find out please ad to our knowledge base and post all you can about this....
 
#348 ·
Matreyia, I know you think that all of the problems will be gone now, but I would bet they are just starting . I had a certified Porsche and it was in the Porsche shop 15 times the first year & I kept thinking the same thing. Sometimes , one car out of a model, either was treated poorly by the previous owner or is just a lemon. When you have the service advisor tells me "that's the way German cars are, they break" and then Porsche NA said that my issue was with the original dealer that certified and sold me the car, that's just crap. I could have got a lawyer and won , but just decided my time and sanity was worth more than the trouble. Those were pretty major issues you had with the car. Replacing the engine is as major as it gets. I hope your issues are over, but I think they are not. It's time for a new car !!! How much is your time worth? How long has the car been parked at the dealer? Has it ever left you stranded ? Do you have faith that the car will not break down again? Did they put a new box engine in your car or a rebuilt one? I would not think it would be worth the worry and stress .
 
#350 ·
Nothing last forever. I use my roof multiple times perday so I expected it would not be able to keep up.

Just got new engine with new turbos, new hpfp, oil pump, new cats, dinan oil cooler, water pump and thermostat...etc.... And will change tranny fluid next week to get ready for the Dinan stage 3 install. So far solid as a rock and zero issues. They would have shown up by now with the way I drive.
 
#351 ·
Thanks for posting this DIY. I just bought my wife a 2011 328 convert to go alongside my 06 650i vert. I have had my car for a year and a half and have not really paid much attention to my top, since it has worked just fine. I will be ordering the lubricants and looking at both car's tops this weekend.
 
#352 ·
I have been reading this thread and other info on the web and I am not sure about what product to use on rubber seals. This sticky suggests to stay away from silicon based products/grease but does mention using einszett Gummi Pflege Stick. However when you look at the msds for this product, http://www.1z-usa.com/content/msds/Gummi-Pflege-Stick-914806.pdf, we see that is silicon based, ie, Polydimethylsiloxane 5 - 10 %. Reading on the web suggests that this type of Polydimethylsiloxane grease is good for lubricating your rubber components, I have a jar of this which is labeled as Silicon Paste which I use to lubricate my brake caliper slide pins. Many products of this type list lubrication of rubber seals as a use, which we are well aware of here at bimmerfest. Other info suggests to stay away from silicon based products as suggested in this thread but then goes on to say use einszett Gummi Pflege. One suggestion I found was to use Glycerin, I think this is what is used by people in the restoration trade. So what to use. Seems maybe glycerin or Krytox which is mentioned here. Krytox msds: http://www.idealvac.com/files/MSDS/Krytox_LVP_Grease_MSDS.pdf, Perfluoropolyether 55 - 85 % PTFE 15 - 45 % ; does not seem to be silicon based. So what to use. A lot of info on web seems to indicate silicon based product such as einszett Gummi Pflege is fine, while other swear by --not. Maybe Krytox is the safe alternative. Kat, and others, what do you think?
 
#355 ·
mrjones,

You certainly cannot go wrong using Krytox. I have been using both Krytox and Gummi Pflege routinely and religiously for 6+ years on my E93 seals and they still look and feel as good as the day I brought the car home from the dealership. I think some of the confusion about "silicone based products" has more to do with hydrocarbon based silicones. Those are the ones that are bad as they can cause all sorts of swelling and ultimate breakdown of the rubber. Gummi Pflege is a water based product. What causes rubber to crack is just like our skin, it gets dehydrated (literally). Products which can help retain moisture in the seals keep them soft squishy and pliable. Polydimethylsiloxane also commonly known as Dimethicone, is very commonly found in hair styling products, lotions, face cream etc. - in fact it is even in some brands of toothpaste. Bottom line - Gummi Pflege isn't going to trash out the seals. If you only want to treat the seals 4 times a year - definitely go the Krytox route.

Back when I was driving the car daily and washing it weekly, I used the Gummi Pflege every time I washed the car and then once in the fall and once in the late spring, I'd do an intensive job with Krytox. For the last nine months, the E93 has become a garage queen and so the need to be as vigilant has diminished a bit. Now, I'm more inclined to do the Krytox quarterly and still do the Gummi Pflege when I wash the car - just not as often.
 
#356 ·
Thanks All. I ordered 2 tubes of Dupont ATA grease (http://store.tmcindustries.com/DuPont-Essential-AT-Grease-2-oz-tube_p_260.html). This is the virtually the same as GPL Krytox seems to me but about 4x cheaper, ie, both are synthetic PFPE oil and PTFE thickeners. Should be more than fine I think, Krytox maybe has a little more stringent specs for temp. and viscosity but for use as a rubber lube AT/ATA probably more than fine. Composition of PFPE oil to PTFE thickner looks within the same ballpark for both. Thanks again Kat for the great write-up.
 
#359 ·
-328iblack - I got 2 tubes of the ATA grease and I think it works fine. The consistency is that of, say, white Lithium grease, or maybe a little bit thicker than that. Similar to regular Krytox sounds like. Tried it on my e93 weatherstriping and seals. Applying with finger, rubbed in, then wiped down with a lint free cloth and seals looked good. Note that I bought the ATA version which has a rust inhibitor just in case I find a use for it as a bearing lubricant or similar application. The AT version does not have the rust inhibitor and if using for just seal conditioning would work well. The thicker consistency is nicer to work with when compared to my Gummi Phledge Stick which is very thin (water based).

On my seals I also tried some Silicon paste that I have for brake calipers and this also seems to work nicely (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B016E5E59G?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s01). Since this is just polydimethylsiloxane oil with a quartz/amorphous silica thickner, ie non-hydrocarbon (as in petroleum) based it would seem to me that this would also be a good candidate for seal conditioning. It is a little thicker than the ATA but applies very nicely and is cheaper than even the AT/ATA Dupont grease. I would defer/ask Kat what she thinks about possibly using this product since most concerns with Silicone products is the hydro-carbons (petroleum base) in them destroying the rubber as she mentioned above.

Anyway, the ATA grease seems to work very nicely and looks to be almost the same as Krytox. And one tube is probably going to last pretty long if just using for conditioning your seals. :thumbup:
 
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