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E90/E91/E92/E93 (2006 - 2013)
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  #1  
Old 06-18-2005, 01:09 PM
BigDog008 BigDog008 is offline
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Talking Just came back from JMK BMW in NJ

Negotiated a brand new...


325i 6 speed manual
Sport Package
Xenon Lights
Heated Seats
Satellite Prep
Arctic Silver Metallic Paint...


the best part about the whole thing?????


$575 over invoice!!!!!

I gotta say, its probably the BEST car buying experience I've EVER had... I bought a E46 from them before, adding this to the stable too!
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  #2  
Old 06-18-2005, 01:31 PM
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ihavedrivenanm1 ihavedrivenanm1 is offline
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Hmm...

At $575 over invoice and after salesman's commission, prep, lot allowance, and advertising the dealer itself is making nothing. They will have to wait for year-end givebacks to realize any money from this sale.

$575 over invoice for a lightly equiped car [even less profit to the dealer on options/accessories] would suggest that the e90 is in fact selling like a cold turd.
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  #3  
Old 06-18-2005, 01:41 PM
BigDog008 BigDog008 is offline
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invoice was $31,790, i paid $32,365

i guess i got a bit of a break too because they just got exactly what i wanted the other day and is sitting in their warehouse
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  #4  
Old 06-18-2005, 01:42 PM
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will-san will-san is offline
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3 posabilities as i see it.

lots of "fees"
dog is lying
dog is jedi
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  #5  
Old 06-18-2005, 01:45 PM
BigDog008 BigDog008 is offline
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dog doesn't lie

Chuck Patrie was my salesman
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  #6  
Old 06-18-2005, 02:16 PM
RedStripe RedStripe is offline
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How many miles does it have on it?
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  #7  
Old 06-18-2005, 03:19 PM
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Any fees paid? Advertising ? MACO? Doc Fees? Floor assist? Please elaborate
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  #8  
Old 06-18-2005, 04:10 PM
BigDog008 BigDog008 is offline
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its a brand new car, no miles on it

Fees are as follows:
Registration/Title Fee (Estimated) 4yrs NJ: $199.00
Documentary Fee (Process, Delivery, Clerical): $125.00


Thats it
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  #9  
Old 06-18-2005, 05:53 PM
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will-san will-san is offline
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then you are cleary a Jedi.

well done!
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  #10  
Old 06-18-2005, 05:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ihavedrivenanm1
Hmm...

At $575 over invoice and after salesman's commission, prep, lot allowance, and advertising the dealer itself is making nothing. They will have to wait for year-end givebacks to realize any money from this sale.

$575 over invoice for a lightly equiped car [even less profit to the dealer on options/accessories] would suggest that the e90 is in fact selling like a cold turd.

I agree. The discounts on the E90 has to be a sign that the car is not miving as well as BMW hoped for.

I think the bloated design is turning off allot of people.
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  #11  
Old 06-18-2005, 05:54 PM
BigDog008 BigDog008 is offline
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oh you don't know how excited I am....


tuesday can't come fast enough for me
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  #12  
Old 06-18-2005, 06:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigDog008
its a brand new car, no miles on it

Fees are as follows:
Registration/Title Fee (Estimated) 4yrs NJ: $199.00
Documentary Fee (Process, Delivery, Clerical): $125.00


Thats it
Holy Sh*t. With Doc fee, you are just 800 over invoice. That's a helluva deal. Where are you located? Cause in SoCal Los Angeles, every dealer is selling the 3 series like hotcakes. Most have 1 or 2 including their demo car on the lot. I bought my car for $1500 over invoice, no fees. You are Jedi indeed.
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  #13  
Old 06-18-2005, 06:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigDog008
its a brand new car, no miles on it

Fees are as follows:
Registration/Title Fee (Estimated) 4yrs NJ: $199.00
Documentary Fee (Process, Delivery, Clerical): $125.00


Thats it
Actually......
with that deal you are not only a Jedi,
but also Master & Commander of The Far Side of The World.
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  #14  
Old 06-18-2005, 06:50 PM
BigDog008 BigDog008 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spaceman
Holy Sh*t. With Doc fee, you are just 800 over invoice. That's a helluva deal. Where are you located? Cause in SoCal Los Angeles, every dealer is selling the 3 series like hotcakes. Most have 1 or 2 including their demo car on the lot. I bought my car for $1500 over invoice, no fees. You are Jedi indeed.

I live in Berkeley Heights, NJ

about 10 min away from JMK BMW on Route 22 in Springfield, NJ
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  #15  
Old 06-18-2005, 07:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spaceman
Cause in SoCal Los Angeles, every dealer is selling the 3 series like hotcakes. Most have 1 or 2 including their demo car on the lot.
???

As of today between about 10AM and 8PM, between Santa Monica, Beverly Hills, Century West, and Center there are, by my count, about 25 e90's on the lots and for sale; not exactly flooded with e90s but not scarce either.
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  #16  
Old 06-18-2005, 07:11 PM
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Wolf359 Wolf359 is offline
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I have a question about this "price over invoice" practice that takes place in the U.S. I'm from Canada and here, well, the prices you see on the internet are the ones you pay, and I don't see any equivalent to that concept here. The dealers really stick to the official prices to avoid having people cross-shopping and having the dealers themselves competing for the best price (They can play on resale value of your car though).

In my case after adding the 800$ preparation fee, the dealer subtracted 1400$, so my question is, does that equate to 600 below invoice or am I really far off the track?
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  #17  
Old 06-18-2005, 07:32 PM
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ihavedrivenanm1 ihavedrivenanm1 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolf359
I have a question about this "price over invoice" practice that takes place in the U.S. I'm from Canada and here, well, the prices you see on the internet are the ones you pay, and I don't see any equivalent to that concept here. The dealers really stick to the official prices to avoid having people cross-shopping and having the dealers themselves competing for the best price (They can play on resale value of your car though).

In my case after adding the 800$ preparation fee, the dealer subtracted 1400$, so my question is, does that equate to 600 below invoice or am I really far off the track?
It's all just a big game down here.

I doubt any consumer, no matter how savvy, really knows what a dealer actually pays, net, net, net, for a given car.

While "invoice" is supposed to be the price a dealer pays you also have to take into consideration that the manufacturer gives the dealer co-op advertising money, financing incentives, lot allowances for carrying cars, to-dealer rebates, and end-of-quarter/year give backs.

Rest assured that no dealer is going to let a car off of his or her lot without making some type of profit.

As for the American consumer it is simply a game to see how little the individual buyer can leave on the dealers table. There is no set process, it is truly a free-for-all and just about anything goes.
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  #18  
Old 06-18-2005, 08:39 PM
RedStripe RedStripe is offline
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I just wanted to add my brief car buying experience I had when I was in Toronto on vacation two years ago or so. Anyways, I was asked by extended family to buy a car.

Man, you Canadians have it tough. First of all, I'm obsessive when it comes to information, and us Americans don't know how good we have it. Have you ever tried getting Canadian invoice prices (or any other country for that matter)? I looked and looked, but couldn't find anything that was free or publicly available. I had to buy it from this one online source which specifically sold Canadian invoice pricing for different cars makes and models. Maybe things have changed since then, so hopefully you guys have a Canadian version of Edmunds.com, KBB.com, etc.

But for those in Canada, the business model of car dealerships work the same. You have your MSRP or "Sticker" price. And you also have your invoice (also known as wholesale) price. As mentioned in the previous post, dealerships often times get special incentives, paybacks, rebates and whatnot.... but for the most part, each specific vehicle you see is purchased by an authorised dealership from the auto manufacturer at wholesale (invoice) prices. Like other retailers, the displayed "sticker" price is the retail price. But buying a automobile is obviously different than buying clothing at the mall or food at the grocery store. So, there is usually some negotiating.

So, to answer your original post, though you may not have had personal experience of negotiating from invoice, that doesn't mean you cannot, or that it is not done in Canada. Dealerships here in the USA will also start from the MSRP price, because it's in their best interest. Though obviously, savvy and informed consumers will have their preferred way of negotiating the best deal for them.

Also, you the example you stated in your last sentence is probably not the "price over invoice" method we are talking about. It sounds to me like it's the price under retail method.

Oh, and I wanted to add this since we are swapping "Jedi car buying stories". I was buying a Toyota Corolla, the current generation that at that time had only recently come out (kind of like the e90 right now). Anyways, Toyota dealerships are usually notorious about how much you have to "roll up your sleeves" to get some good negotiating work done, but man, the Toronto dealerships were a whole other story. They all acted like you were doing THEM a favor by coming into the dealership. And the dealerships were tiny with limited selection(compared to the mammoth acre upon acre dealerships we have here in the US). Anyways, the end of the story is that I was able to buy the new Corolla for $200 over invoice. And at that time, for the market I was in, I really thought that was some Jedi skills at work there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolf359
I have a question about this "price over invoice" practice that takes place in the U.S. I'm from Canada and here, well, the prices you see on the internet are the ones you pay, and I don't see any equivalent to that concept here. The dealers really stick to the official prices to avoid having people cross-shopping and having the dealers themselves competing for the best price (They can play on resale value of your car though).

In my case after adding the 800$ preparation fee, the dealer subtracted 1400$, so my question is, does that equate to 600 below invoice or am I really far off the track?

Last edited by RedStripe; 06-18-2005 at 09:11 PM.
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  #19  
Old 06-18-2005, 09:32 PM
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spaceman spaceman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ihavedrivenanm1
???

As of today between about 10AM and 8PM, between Santa Monica, Beverly Hills, Century West, and Center there are, by my count, about 25 e90's on the lots and for sale; not exactly flooded with e90s but not scarce either.
Well, maybe now. When I went 2 weeks ago to put test drive the 325, there were 2 cars in Center BMW, Van Nuys. 4 at Bob Smith, Woodland Hills and 2 only at Calabasas BMW. A couple of days later, I dropped by Bob Smith to make my purchase, and all they had was a silver 330. I ended up buying one that was on the boat en route to Oxnard VPC.

But I do know they were shipping them out from Germany by large quantities this month... so maybe supplies are finally catching up with demand?

- spaceman
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  #20  
Old 06-18-2005, 09:37 PM
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spaceman spaceman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigDog008
Negotiated a brand new...


325i 6 speed manual
Sport Package
Xenon Lights
Heated Seats
Satellite Prep
Arctic Silver Metallic Paint...

Forgot to ask.. is it a 2006 325i E90? Or a new 2005 325i older design?
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  #21  
Old 06-18-2005, 10:29 PM
RedStripe RedStripe is offline
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Great question spaceman, let's never assume the obvious. But since he said Arctic, I have to imagine it can only be the new e90.

Quote:
Originally Posted by spaceman
Forgot to ask.. is it a 2006 325i E90? Or a new 2005 325i older design?
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  #22  
Old 06-18-2005, 11:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RedStripe
Great question spaceman, let's never assume the obvious. But since he said Arctic, I have to imagine it can only be the new e90.
yeah.. I know RedStripe... I guess I just wanted to be 100% sure. Not to be malicious or anything, but a tiny part of me was almost hoping he would say the price was for the 2005 325.. Because his price is really good, makes me look like a fool paying $1500 above invoice

But seriously, BigDog, I am happy for you! You definitely set the bar.
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  #23  
Old 06-19-2005, 06:14 AM
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Wolf359 Wolf359 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RedStripe
Man, you Canadians have it tough. First of all, I'm obsessive when it comes to information, and us Americans don't know how good we have it. Have you ever tried getting Canadian invoice prices (or any other country for that matter)? I looked and looked, but couldn't find anything that was free or publicly available. I had to buy it from this one online source which specifically sold Canadian invoice pricing for different cars makes and models. Maybe things have changed since then, so hopefully you guys have a Canadian version of Edmunds.com, KBB.com, etc.
We still have it tough, because there is no law as in the U.S. forcing the dealers to display their invoice price (Whatever that means - Your post clearly indicates that a lot of factors are not taken into account with regards to the way it should be calculated). There were rumors we could end up with a similar law but I'm guessing the dealerships lobby got it canned for good because I haven't heard of it for years now.

Also, we do not have a lemon law. You're unlucky with a frequently broken car, you stick with it and it's your problem.


Quote:
Originally Posted by RedStripe
Oh, and I wanted to add this since we are swapping "Jedi car buying stories". I was buying a Toyota Corolla, the current generation that at that time had only recently come out (kind of like the e90 right now). Anyways, Toyota dealerships are usually notorious about how much you have to "roll up your sleeves" to get some good negotiating work done, but man, the Toronto dealerships were a whole other story. They all acted like you were doing THEM a favor by coming into the dealership. And the dealerships were tiny with limited selection(compared to the mammoth acre upon acre dealerships we have here in the US). Anyways, the end of the story is that I was able to buy the new Corolla for $200 over invoice. And at that time, for the market I was in, I really thought that was some Jedi skills at work there.
I'll grant you that, Toyota dealers have the reputation for being extremely independant here. That would be enough to have me walk out the door, but none of their products raised my interest enough to walk through it in the first place.

More than five years ago when I was car-shopping I entered a Honda dealership and wanted to try their Accord Coupe (I knew they made reliable cars and with a V-6 that one had decent numbers as well). It was raining cats and dogs that day, I don't know if that was the main factor or the fact that I was rather young-looking (I was 26 back then), but the salesman never wanted me to test drive the car. He had no idea I could pay more than 3/4 of its value cash.

So speaking of Jedi stories, I'm guessing the Force wasn't strong enough with me that day. Therefore, I ended up with a Y2K 323i (No problem having a test-drive there!). In the end, I'm guessing that was a pretty good turn of events.

One sure thing though, I will never step in a Honda dealership for the rest of my life!
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  #24  
Old 06-19-2005, 07:12 AM
BigDog008 BigDog008 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RedStripe
Great question spaceman, let's never assume the obvious. But since he said Arctic, I have to imagine it can only be the new e90.

hello again

it is a 2006 E90, I hopefully plan to pick it up this week after I submit the VIN number to insurance and everything is cleared


I will most definitly have pictures also once i get it
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  #25  
Old 06-19-2005, 07:29 AM
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njbimmerman njbimmerman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigDog008
I live in Berkeley Heights, NJ

about 10 min away from JMK BMW on Route 22 in Springfield, NJ

BigDog did you only go to JMK or did you check out prices at Morristown BMW, Denville BMW or the dealers in Wayne (Rt 23 I think) Essex BMW or Open Road BMW? Maybe others?h

I live in Morris Plains and closest to me are Morristown or Denville but I'm willing to travel a little for a great deal.
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