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E90/E91/E92/E93 (2006 - 2013)
The E9X is the 4th evolution of the BMW 3 series including a highly tuned twin turbo 335i variant pushing out 300hp and 300 ft. lbs. of torque. BMW continues to show that it sets the bar for true driving performance! -- View the E9X Wiki

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  #51  
Old 07-21-2005, 08:26 PM
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wag-zhp wag-zhp is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Technic
I got you...

The problem that I have with this E90 straight line performance is that for the price it should be at least a better performer than the E46 ZHP, which is not. Yes, that was a Performance Package trim but then this car is only around 100 pounds heavier with 20 more horses and about the same torque at 750 rpm less. It is just marginally faster than a regular E46 330i, while everybody else is in the segment are putting more power on the ground.

The " but it handles better than anything else" quality is a given, the sucker is a BMW for God's sake. I was also in the Ultimate Drive and sure, the E90 was the supreme handler among the A4 and the G35, again that was a no brainer. But the power was dissapointing (it was a Steptronic, though).

When you factor the $6000-$10000 more than other cars in the Sport Sedan segment I personally want everything. And probably adding $5000 more to really smoke the competition when the proposed 335ti Turbo comes seems to me like a stupid move, IMO. The current E90 should be doing that, right now not for even more money. Of course, the 335ti -or whatever nomenclature it will be- will be the highest performing sedan in its class, for maybe some $11-15,000 more than everybody else it has to be...
That's my point too. When I bought my 330i (with the ZHP option) it was faster than the G35, offered far superior driving feel, and had much better materials, fit, and finish. At the time of my purchase, I bought the car that best suited my performance (combined with luxury) needs and wants. In that segment it was the top dog. At that time it also carried a $6k higher price tag, which to me was worth it.

If I were shoping for a new car today I would still be looking for the top dog in the segment. We all agree that the 3 series is the king of handling, and driving feel. There is an intangible something that beckons the true driving enthusiast to come out and play. My only reservation about the new 3 series is that if I am still spending more money for the Bimmer over the competion, it needs to be better in ALL of the catagories. And yes, that includes raw acceleration. I realize that there are cars out there, like the mustang, wrx, and even that big Dodge hotrod truck, that will hand a 3 series it's ass on a platter in a drag race. However, I don't consider them to be in the same segment. Am I expecting too much to ask BMW to give us a car that can out corner, out stop, out class, and out run the competition?
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Last edited by wag-zhp; 07-22-2005 at 08:25 AM.
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  #52  
Old 07-21-2005, 10:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Technic
I got you...

The problem that I have with this E90 straight line performance is that for the price it should be at least a better performer than the E46 ZHP, which is not. Yes, that was a Performance Package trim but then this car is only around 100 pounds heavier with 20 more horses and about the same torque at 750 rpm less. It is just marginally faster than a regular E46 330i, while everybody else is in the segment are putting more power on the ground.

The " but it handles better than anything else" quality is a given, the sucker is a BMW for God's sake. I was also in the Ultimate Drive and sure, the E90 was the supreme handler among the A4 and the G35, again that was a no brainer. But the power was dissapointing (it was a Steptronic, though).

When you factor the $6000-$10000 more than other cars in the Sport Sedan segment I personally want everything. And probably adding $5000 more to really smoke the competition when the proposed 335ti Turbo comes seems to me like a stupid move, IMO. The current E90 should be doing that, right now not for even more money. Of course, the 335ti -or whatever nomenclature it will be- will be the highest performing sedan in its class, for maybe some $11-15,000 more than everybody else it has to be...
Your view is right on the money.
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  #53  
Old 07-25-2005, 08:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Technic
I got you...

The problem that I have with this E90 straight line performance is that for the price it should be at least a better performer than the E46 ZHP, which is not. Yes, that was a Performance Package trim but then this car is only around 100 pounds heavier with 20 more horses and about the same torque at 750 rpm less. It is just marginally faster than a regular E46 330i, while everybody else is in the segment are putting more power on the ground.

The " but it handles better than anything else" quality is a given, the sucker is a BMW for God's sake. I was also in the Ultimate Drive and sure, the E90 was the supreme handler among the A4 and the G35, again that was a no brainer. But the power was dissapointing (it was a Steptronic, though).

When you factor the $6000-$10000 more than other cars in the Sport Sedan segment I personally want everything. And probably adding $5000 more to really smoke the competition when the proposed 335ti Turbo comes seems to me like a stupid move, IMO. The current E90 should be doing that, right now not for even more money. Of course, the 335ti -or whatever nomenclature it will be- will be the highest performing sedan in its class, for maybe some $11-15,000 more than everybody else it has to be...
I just feel lucky that they didn't jack up the price ( only around $500 more) over the E46 like many were afraid of despite a lot of improvements and a very weak dollar.
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  #54  
Old 07-25-2005, 11:36 PM
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I try to stay out of discussions that end up involving an E90 and E46 comparison, but I have to say that I am disappointed with what I am hearing out of this comparo. When I got my 330i, at the time it felt like held and shoulders above its class. But I decided to lease it as I really wanted to purchase the redo that was scheduled to come out in just a few years. I figured that when the redo came, the car would just blow the competition away like the E46 once had. Well, the new G has been out for a couple of years now and the new 3 can't blow it out the water in a comparo? That's disappointing. Unless we get another ZHP like situation here, we are probably stuck with this 3 for the next 7 years or so. That's plenty of time for BMW to fall behind the competition. This is why I am going to keep my E46 when the lease is up (barring major mechanical problems). I am not trying to take anything away from E90 owners. If I was in the market today, I'd be seriously looking at the E90, and I'd probably get it. I don't like the G35 and I certainly don't like the Caddy, but I do like the G35C. I just had higher hopes for the redo vis-a-vis the competition, that's all.
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  #55  
Old 07-26-2005, 08:01 AM
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I really don't like the E90 dashboard, it makes me feel uncomfortable.
It handles nicely, but the steering road feel is more filtered than the E46.

The G35 coupe has better resale value numbers, it has been in the top ten for years now.
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  #56  
Old 07-26-2005, 02:49 PM
Scorp76 Scorp76 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick330i
I try to stay out of discussions that end up involving an E90 and E46 comparison, but I have to say that I am disappointed with what I am hearing out of this comparo. When I got my 330i, at the time it felt like held and shoulders above its class. But I decided to lease it as I really wanted to purchase the redo that was scheduled to come out in just a few years. I figured that when the redo came, the car would just blow the competition away like the E46 once had. Well, the new G has been out for a couple of years now and the new 3 can't blow it out the water in a comparo? That's disappointing. Unless we get another ZHP like situation here, we are probably stuck with this 3 for the next 7 years or so. That's plenty of time for BMW to fall behind the competition. This is why I am going to keep my E46 when the lease is up (barring major mechanical problems). I am not trying to take anything away from E90 owners. If I was in the market today, I'd be seriously looking at the E90, and I'd probably get it. I don't like the G35 and I certainly don't like the Caddy, but I do like the G35C. I just had higher hopes for the redo vis-a-vis the competition, that's all.
Some of you people are just laughable. It's not enough to win a comparo (which in itself is a hollow and pointless 'victory'), to be called the best in class or 'still the one to beat', the E90 has to 'blow the competition away'. Tooooo funny.

And when exactly did the E46 ever blow anything away? It won a few comparos, just like Im sure the E90 will, but the numbers it put down were right in line with the competition, it didn't 'blow them away'.
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  #57  
Old 07-26-2005, 03:28 PM
adc adc is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scorp76
Some of you people are just laughable. It's not enough to win a comparo (which in itself is a hollow and pointless 'victory'), to be called the best in class or 'still the one to beat', the E90 has to 'blow the competition away'. Tooooo funny.

And when exactly did the E46 ever blow anything away? It won a few comparos, just like Im sure the E90 will, but the numbers it put down were right in line with the competition, it didn't 'blow them away'.
You can laugh all you want - but the joke might be literally at your expense...

I distinctly recall several comparisons where the overriding impression was that other manufacturers should just clone the 3 series and be done with it. And yes, for those who care, a BMW should blow the competition away - not just slightly nudge on top.

What some people are worried about is the no-longer-inconceivable notion that BMW will start loosing these comparos even in the fun-to-drive category, given it's lengthy product cycles compared to some of it's competitors.

And this was an easy comparison - there was no 255HP Audi, no IS350 Lexus, no C350 Benz, etc. But if the car makes you happy and there are no regrets, by all means feel free to disregard the laughable opinions...

adc
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  #58  
Old 07-26-2005, 04:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adc
I distinctly recall several comparisons where the overriding impression was that other manufacturers should just clone the 3 series and be done with it. And yes, for those who care, a BMW should blow the competition away - not just slightly nudge on top.

What some people are worried about is the no-longer-inconceivable notion that BMW will start loosing these comparos even in the fun-to-drive category, given it's lengthy product cycles compared to some of it's competitors.

And this was an easy comparison - there was no 255HP Audi, no IS350 Lexus, no C350 Benz, etc. But if the car makes you happy and there are no regrets, by all means feel free to disregard the laughable opinions...

adc
03 330 ZHP
Its very easy for the competition to just increase displacement & get more horsepower.
That is really the only point to all of those newer models that you mentioned.
The rest of their characteristics are just what the mags mentioned: CLONES. And while they still haven't even got that right just yet, (and they ARE catching up), the E90 has ALREADY taken those characteristics a step further. It drives like a larger, more luxurious car, yet still has all the nimbleness of the old car.

BMW is smart. They may not get those that bought the E46 330 already, but they'll get PLENTY of those who didn't, as well as prior 323/325 owners. When they feel the time is right, then they'll bring in turbos or 335s or ZHPs or whatever. The mags just expect what the mags expect 'cause all they do is drive cars all day long & they have a little insight into where this is all going. To me, just because the mags have high expectations, that doesn't make the G35 a better car.

Last edited by RichReg; 07-26-2005 at 05:41 PM.
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  #59  
Old 07-26-2005, 05:26 PM
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Who cares about horsepower and all that crap, bottomline, a G35 doesn't have nearly the pimp factor of a brand new E90.

Drive both and see which one gets more looks. It's a no brainer.
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  #60  
Old 07-26-2005, 05:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tehkao
Who cares about horsepower and all that crap, bottomline, a G35 doesn't have nearly the pimp factor of a brand new E90.

Drive both and see which one gets more looks. It's a no brainer.
Pimp factor?
You mean I can get chicks with this car? I must be dating the wrong girls....
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  #61  
Old 07-26-2005, 05:56 PM
mgorze mgorze is offline
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re: my impressions on e90

I couldn't agree more. I just brought my 330i home from the Perf. Delivery in Spartanburg and I'm 100% satisfied. The car performs flawlessly. My last BMW was a 97 M3 and I feel the E90 surpasses it completely.
I've driven the G35 Infiniti and its a nice car but I wouldn't buy one. Exterior styling is boring, looks like an upside down turtle. The Cad CTS? not in the same class, maybe in another 30 years GM may??? maybe not......
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  #62  
Old 07-26-2005, 06:16 PM
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I love the styling of the new E90, and the extra boost in HP would have made me a convert had they launched this car last year.

However, the hyperbole surrounding the wonderfulness of the vehicle is reaching stratospheric proportions.

Of course the competition is catching up to BMW. BMW sells 400k of these things in the US in a year, would you expect other car companies not to notice? And of course they are still on top, after spending years and years getting the driving dynamics right, it will be a few years more before GM, Infiniti, Lexus et. al. catch up.

That said, the CTS beat the 525i, MB 320, Audi A6 et al. in a comparo last year in Road and Track. It's not a direct competitor to the 3 series due to it's disadvantage in weight. However, to say that it 'wallows in turns like an american car' is rubbish. And I notice on these boards, that the closer the competitiion gets, the uglier their interior/exterior/wheels/rearview mirrors get.

The CTS-V, with approx a 2k upgrade in suspension parts over the base CTS, beat the M3 and M5 Times at the Ring. Course, it also had a 400hp V8, but the point is that the Sigma architecture of the Cadillac is on par with the best BMW has to offer.
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  #63  
Old 07-26-2005, 06:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thertorch
I love the styling of the new E90, and the extra boost in HP would have made me a convert had they launched this car last year.

And of course they are still on top, after spending years and years getting the driving dynamics right, it will be a few years more before GM, Infiniti, Lexus et. al. catch up.

That said, the CTS beat the 525i, MB 320, Audi A6 et al. in a comparo last year in Road and Track. It's not a direct competitor to the 3 series due to it's disadvantage in weight. However, to say that it 'wallows in turns like an american car' is rubbish. And I notice on these boards, that the closer the competitiion gets, the uglier their interior/exterior/wheels/rearview mirrors get.

The CTS-V, with approx a 2k upgrade in suspension parts over the base CTS, beat the M3 and M5 Times at the Ring. Course, it also had a 400hp V8, but the point is that the Sigma architecture of the Cadillac is on par with the best BMW has to offer.
Well, they are definitely trying VERY hard, and especially now with all of these employee discounts.
But as many will agree, the mags have high expectations, and what they or you or I expect to be the best qualities of a car, someone else might find ridiculous. Add to that the fact that ALL of these cars have been taken up just a few notches further these days, and it just makes the job of an R&T test driver that much more difficult.

That being said, winning a mag comparo these days is really not much of a victory. It is those 'intangibles' that the competition has been trying to replicate that tell the story.
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  #64  
Old 07-26-2005, 06:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RichReg
Well, they are definitely trying VERY hard, and especially now with all of these employee discounts.
But as many will agree, the mags have high expectations, and what they or you or I expect to be the best qualities of a car, someone else might find ridiculous. Add to that the fact that ALL of these cars have been taken up just a few notches further these days, and it just makes the job of an R&T test driver that much more difficult.

That being said, winning a mag comparo these days is really not much of a victory. It is those 'intangibles' that the competition has been trying to replicate that tell the story.


The CTS was projected at 30k units per year.

It has sold well over 150k in 3 years, with sales increasing on a month over basis for most of that time. Without discounts.

I'm not sure what discounts have to do with the quality or driving feel of the vehicle, nor how they impact the decision of the Auto mag editors.
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  #65  
Old 07-26-2005, 07:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thertorch


The CTS was projected at 30k units per year.

It has sold well over 150k in 3 years, with sales increasing on a month over basis for most of that time. Without discounts.

I'm not sure what discounts have to do with the quality or driving feel of the vehicle, nor how they impact the decision of the Auto mag editors.
There is no direct correlation, but someone like an Auto mag editor may easily put price into an evaluation of any automobile. I did not mean to make any direct connection to the car's dynamics, other than to say they are working harder to sell cars: be it by price or by better engineering.

As far as sales, yes I do see quite a few of them out on the roads. But I think it was on Autoline Detoit that I heard that the majority of Cadillac's cars are sold to their employees in the first place....is this not correct?
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  #66  
Old 07-26-2005, 07:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RichReg
There is no direct correlation, but someone like an Auto mag editor may easily put price into an evaluation of any automobile. I did not mean to make any direct connection to the car's dynamics, other than to say they are working harder to sell cars: be it by price or by better engineering.

As far as sales, yes I do see quite a few of them out on the roads. But I think it was on Autoline Detoit that I heard that the majority of Cadillac's cars are sold to their employees in the first place....is this not correct?
I've never heard that. That would be a helluvalot of Cadillac Employees, as they sell about 250k per year.
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  #67  
Old 07-26-2005, 07:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tehkao
Who cares about horsepower and all that crap, bottomline, a G35 doesn't have nearly the pimp factor of a brand new E90.

Drive both and see which one gets more looks. It's a no brainer.
If it were looks I wanted, I wouldn't buy a 4 door! I'd buy a low, sleek, 2 door sports car.

adc
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  #68  
Old 07-26-2005, 09:46 PM
tehkao tehkao is offline
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Thumbs down

The CTS only got popular because of Matrix Reloaded....
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  #69  
Old 07-26-2005, 09:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tehkao
Who cares about horsepower and all that crap, bottomline, a G35 doesn't have nearly the pimp factor of a brand new E90.

Drive both and see which one gets more looks. It's a no brainer.
Pimp factor...dude, the e90 is a common mass produced car that costs less than most of the suvs rolling around.

If you get any looks in either car that's sad. what sort of pisspoor gold digger sets her sights on a car with $400 lease specials?
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  #70  
Old 07-27-2005, 03:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tehkao
The CTS only got popular because of Matrix Reloaded....

So I assume we'll see an increase in sales of the Cien because of the Island?






























































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  #71  
Old 07-27-2005, 05:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thertorch
So I assume we'll see an increase in sales of the Cien because of the Island?



There was an increase of Navigator sales after Are we there yet?...
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  #72  
Old 07-27-2005, 06:36 AM
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There was an increase of Navigator sales after Are we there yet?...
You mean they sold another one?
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  #73  
Old 07-27-2005, 06:54 AM
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xspeedy xspeedy is offline
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People, it isn't about how much wine you get in a bottle, it is about how fine the wine tastes.

If you simply want more power and a cheap price, then go ahead and buy the gallon jug of wine for $5. If you want something that has a higher level of precision, and delights the senses, then go for the BMW.

I drove a G35 when they came out, and that thing was incredibly boring to drive. Plus, the interior is cheaper than a Kia. I'd take a 325 over the G35 any day of the week.
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  #74  
Old 07-27-2005, 07:03 AM
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Listen BMW has got the e90 just right. A little more performance, increased fuel consumption, and perfect balance. Anyone that cares about the total package will buy a e90.

There is a lot more to a car then 0-60. I would have loved it even more if it was a beast. Remember that BMW's are sold to many different types of people. Since we are all on a message board I would guess we all love speed, all around performance, and cars in general. BMW makes the M3 for us even if we cant afford them or in my case dont have four doors. If the e90m comes in four doors I most likely order one. Then I can kick ass at a traffic light also.
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  #75  
Old 07-27-2005, 12:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xspeedy
People, it isn't about how much wine you get in a bottle, it is about how fine the wine tastes.

If you simply want more power and a cheap price, then go ahead and buy the gallon jug of wine for $5. If you want something that has a higher level of precision, and delights the senses, then go for the BMW.

I drove a G35 when they came out, and that thing was incredibly boring to drive. Plus, the interior is cheaper than a Kia. I'd take a 325 over the G35 any day of the week.
Some people aren't getting that many e46 owners don't see a big enough difference between the e90 and e46 ZHP. The handling is better and...um well the handling is better.

Not a major fan of the G35 but after the problems my e46 330i has enountered it's becoming easier and easier to look elsewhere. I personally wouldn't touch a 325 - even if it were 28k loaded. I'm not big on them as the car doesn't offer the kind of power I want WITH my handling. I find the 325i boring to drive (I drive my bro-in-law's quite a bit). He loves it. To each his own.
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