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European Delivery
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  #1  
Old 07-27-2005, 05:52 PM
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Recommended Negatioation sttrategies?

Ok Guys

Let's hear your best stories on getting the deal where you want - it

How do you introduce the invoice price knowledge to the sales guy

Has anyone used a fax out your configuration and here's how much I am willing to pay strategy? If you do - how do you present this in a document?

Anyone got any examples?

Sorry if this has been posted iun numberous places - I just want to consolidate this topic.

thanks
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  #2  
Old 07-27-2005, 06:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turpiwa
Ok Guys

Let's hear your best stories on getting the deal where you want - it

How do you introduce the invoice price knowledge to the sales guy

Has anyone used a fax out your configuration and here's how much I am willing to pay strategy? If you do - how do you present this in a document?

Anyone got any examples?

Sorry if this has been posted iun numberous places - I just want to consolidate this topic.

thanks
You may want to read this post. http://www.bimmerfest.com/faq/rizzo.html
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  #3  
Old 07-27-2005, 06:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by closer2pin
You may want to read this post. http://www.bimmerfest.com/faq/rizzo.html
For the record, I am NOT a fan of Rizzo method. It is impersonal and makes it seen like you (the Rizzoer) as a jerk. If anything i'd rather let the dealers being the jerk and not me.
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Old 07-27-2005, 06:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turpiwa
Ok Guys



Sorry if this has been posted iun numberous places - I just want to consolidate this topic.

thanks
By starting another thread, you create more threads, not consolidate them.

after looking at the FAQ, search for rizzo and/or negotiate.
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  #5  
Old 07-27-2005, 06:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beewang
For the record, I am NOT a fan of Rizzo method. It is impersonal and makes it seen like you (the Rizzoer) as a jerk. If anything i'd rather let the dealers being the jerk and not me.
I'm not supporting it, or endorsing it. Just posting it for this Fester as information. Dont shoot the messenger....
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  #6  
Old 07-27-2005, 07:50 PM
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Why not just start with a Bimmerfest sponsor? I know at least one of them that will cut you a deal that will make it worth going out of state for...
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  #7  
Old 07-27-2005, 08:34 PM
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Hey - can you give me the details then?

Whatever works
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  #8  
Old 07-27-2005, 10:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Me530
Why not just start with a Bimmerfest sponsor? I know at least one of them that will cut you a deal that will make it worth going out of state for...
I agree with ME530, I'd talk to a dealer in your area that has been recommended on this site. You can do a search for a thread called 'dealers who like to do ED' or something similar. If you can't find someone nearby, consider one out of state....perhaps one of the site's sponsors. They should be willing to offer you a fair deal. I can recommend someone that falls into the latter category if you'd like.

Last edited by Ci2Eye; 07-27-2005 at 11:09 PM.
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  #9  
Old 07-28-2005, 06:37 AM
dkulp dkulp is offline
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I'm not a fan of the Rizzo method either, I'm just not good at being a jerk.

The method I used:
I faxed requests to all the dealers within 2 hours drive of my house EXCEPT the closest one asking for their best quote. I listed out the complete specs and options along with the INVOICE price of each and the total invoice price of the requested car. It's very important to NOT mention MSRP at all when dealing with a dealer. In the Fax I also stated that "according to internet research, $1500-$2000 over invoice is not unreasonable, especially considering ED cars are not taken from dealer allocations and is thus a "bonus" car." Request they respond via fax. (get a free efax number or similar) That way, you have a hardcopy of the offer in hand. Then I waited a day. Only 1/2 the dealers responded (which actually impressed me, I expected less than that).

I had one offer right at the $1500 over invoice. In retrospec, I probably should have asked for offers in the $1200-$1800 range or so. In anycase, I took that offer to my nearest dealer and basically asked them to match it. They didn't QUITE match it, but they came close enough to make it not worth the drive to the other dealer to order it. I probably could have haggled more to get it down to an exact match, but it was close enough to be acceptable.

Car dealers, in general, hate informed buyers and comparison buyers as it's hard for them to negotiate with them and screw them over. If the dealer sees this, the dealer usually respond in one of two fasions:
1) Explicitly say something like "won't budge off of MSRP". These dealers don't want to deal with you at all. Go else where.

2) They recognize that some money (like $1.5k over invoice) is better than no money and quickly reach a deal so you get out of there fast to not tie up the salesman or worse: infect other buyers with your knowledge.

Again, the most important part is NEVER MENTION MSRP. My dealer started to sit down and run some numbers based off of MSRP. I explicitly said "I refuse to talk about MSRP, lets run the numbers based off invoice pricing."

Enjoy!
Dan
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  #10  
Old 07-28-2005, 06:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turpiwa
Hey - can you give me the details then?

Whatever works
I purchased from Adrian at Nalley BMW in Atlanta, I found him in the "Ask a dealer" forum here on Bimmerfest.
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  #11  
Old 07-28-2005, 07:47 AM
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Thanks Guys. Great info. :-D
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  #12  
Old 07-28-2005, 08:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dkulp
I'm not a fan of the Rizzo method either, I'm just not good at being a jerk.

The method I used:
I faxed requests to all the dealers within 2 hours drive of my house EXCEPT the closest one asking for their best quote. I listed out the complete specs and options along with the INVOICE price of each and the total invoice price of the requested car. It's very important to NOT mention MSRP at all when dealing with a dealer. In the Fax I also stated that "according to internet research, $1500-$2000 over invoice is not unreasonable, especially considering ED cars are not taken from dealer allocations and is thus a "bonus" car." Request they respond via fax. (get a free efax number or similar) That way, you have a hardcopy of the offer in hand. Then I waited a day. Only 1/2 the dealers responded (which actually impressed me, I expected less than that).

I had one offer right at the $1500 over invoice. In retrospec, I probably should have asked for offers in the $1200-$1800 range or so. In anycase, I took that offer to my nearest dealer and basically asked them to match it. They didn't QUITE match it, but they came close enough to make it not worth the drive to the other dealer to order it. I probably could have haggled more to get it down to an exact match, but it was close enough to be acceptable.

Car dealers, in general, hate informed buyers and comparison buyers as it's hard for them to negotiate with them and screw them over. If the dealer sees this, the dealer usually respond in one of two fasions:
1) Explicitly say something like "won't budge off of MSRP". These dealers don't want to deal with you at all. Go else where.

2) They recognize that some money (like $1.5k over invoice) is better than no money and quickly reach a deal so you get out of there fast to not tie up the salesman or worse: infect other buyers with your knowledge.

Again, the most important part is NEVER MENTION MSRP. My dealer started to sit down and run some numbers based off of MSRP. I explicitly said "I refuse to talk about MSRP, lets run the numbers based off invoice pricing."

Enjoy!
Dan
My method was very simiilar to this except that I gave the local dealer the first shot. I even offered them $XXXX. over the range I posted in my emails, just because they were the local dealer and had shown me the vehicles and given the test drive. They acted like I would put them out of business at that price. Within a few hours of sending 4-5 emails I had three offers. Two of them were in the range of $XXXX. less than offered to the local dealer. One of those dealers is within about 30 miles from my home and offers valet delivery of a loaner vehicle to your door when they do service.

I didn't feel like a jerk using this method. It's just doing business. The salesman is a wonderful guy and helpful in every way.

Edmunds lists a target price of about $350. off of MSRP for my zip code. By buying ED and using a "soft" version of the "Rizzo" method I save about $6500. off of U.S. delivery MSRP. I will also save about $1500. off car lease fees I would have spent on our 3 1/2 week trip to Europe this coming October. Five months ago I would have never dreamed of a deal like this.

Last edited by beewang; 07-28-2005 at 05:22 PM.
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  #13  
Old 07-28-2005, 11:37 AM
tksung tksung is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dkulp
In anycase, I took that offer to my nearest dealer and basically asked them to match it.
This is probably the reason why many dealers don't reply to fax. I wouldn't, unless I know I'll get the business if I meet your number.

Here is TK's method:

1) research and determine your best number (eg, $1000 over invoice)
2) call the dealer that you've been working with and give him the FIRST shot at it
3) if he doesn't meet your number, note his best price and call the next dealer
4) repeat till someone agrees your price, or you have what you think is the best offer

When you call, make it clear that you are putting down the deposit that day if he agrees to your price, and that you already have an offer for $$$$.
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  #14  
Old 07-28-2005, 12:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tksung
Here is TK's method:

1) research and determine your best number (eg, $1000 over invoice)
2) call the dealer that you've been working with and give him the FIRST shot at it
3) if he doesn't meet your number, note his best price and call the next dealer
4) repeat till someone agrees your price, or you have what you think is the best offer

When you call, make it clear that you are putting down the deposit that day if he agrees to your price, and that you already have an offer for $$$$.
That is essentially what I did (with a couple of deviations that I attribute to the learning process) with my dealer and it worked out well. I toted up the invoice prices, added a profit number and said "this is my offer for the car, including destination, handling and dealer charges, excluding taxes".

Unfortunately we then learned that we couldn't order 2005 X3's for Euro delivery , so I am now back in the process with 2006 numbers (and painted bumpers ).

I really liked the employee purchase plan experience when I bought my Ford - the biggest decisions were color and option - no hidden junk, no haggling.

But if you do your homework (which I had to do when buying the truck, too) this approach can be pretty straightforward, too.

Oh well, such is life - if everything was straightforward, it wouldn't be interesting!

Greg
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  #15  
Old 07-28-2005, 01:03 PM
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beewang beewang is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Liverman
......Unfortunately we then learned that we couldn't order 2005 X3's for Euro delivery , so I am now back in the process with 2006 numbers (and painted bumpers )..........
Painted bumpers looks much better
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  #16  
Old 07-28-2005, 01:12 PM
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When ordering for ED, what is the generally accepted practise for amount of deposit at order time?
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  #17  
Old 07-28-2005, 01:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turpiwa
When ordering for ED, what is the generally accepted practise for amount of deposit at order time?
I provided a cc # and authorized $500 for a deposit, but the dealer was kind enough not to put it through.....
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  #18  
Old 07-28-2005, 01:21 PM
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And the next payment was full payment/signing 1 month before pickup?
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  #19  
Old 07-28-2005, 01:54 PM
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Originally Posted by turpiwa
And the next payment was full payment/signing 1 month before pickup?
I purchased, so I did the down payment ~1 month before pickup, and my first loan payment (BMW FS) just last week (pickup on June 27th). The car should be at the dealer any day now, the wait is brutal!
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  #20  
Old 07-28-2005, 02:27 PM
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Yeh - that part is going to be tough. But then I am not planning to do the trip until Thanksgiving so the waiting game has already started - and that's proving pretty tough too

Given my scenario - I want to order soon for a Thanksgiving pickup. If I gave a deposit in a week from now, is that generally enough to set the ball rolling and when would I next have to pony up - 1 month before delivery?

Thanks for all your comments - this is immensely helpful to people starting up the process.
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  #21  
Old 07-28-2005, 03:32 PM
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I agree with beewang o nthe painted bumpers and am super-siked about my ED in October. I tried the Rizzo method, faxing and emailing all of the dealerships and got 3 out 20 dealerships to reply. Then I started calling. I was very frustrated wit hthe whole process. I got one semi-local dealership to make an offer I was slightly interested in and then I finally called Joern at Passport. Whew! What an awesome guy. He was upfront, easy to work with, and after a day I had placed a deposit. (Incidentally, I was so fed up with the other dealer I was working with that I just wanted to walk away from him, but my husban emailed the guy to see if he would match Joern's offer. He didn't.)
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  #22  
Old 07-28-2005, 03:52 PM
bphunter1972 bphunter1972 is offline
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I basically did the Rizzo method and got $XXXX over invoice on a new 330xi, ED. I don't care if faxing to somebody is considered impersonal or rude: the dealer is making pure profit on what is essentially paperwork. He's not a friend of mine and, if given the opportunity, would probably try to screw me. In fact, many of them did try to screw me by telling me I needed to pay MACO. The one guy who didn't got my business and an easy sale.

The dealership is kinda far away, so that's the downside. But I'm going to Europe for a $40k car anyway, driving a bit to get a good deal seems worth it to me.

That's my story and I'm sticking to it. Bravo Rizzo.

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Last edited by beewang; 07-28-2005 at 05:20 PM.
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  #23  
Old 07-28-2005, 04:14 PM
am_ver am_ver is offline
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This is how I bought my car

I got mine XXXX (or is it XXX?) over ED invoice. I sent out requests for quotes on aaa.com, costco.com and a few other websites. The first response was unfortunately the highest. then another dealer sent out an absurd quote but promised to give me the lowest price if I agreed to work with him and him only. In the mean time dealer X sent me an email to call him - I said 'send me your quote' since I am looking at a non-haggle approach, so I am assuming that your quote is the final figure. He said that I should send him the best quote and he will beat it. The next day, a different dealer sends their quote of XX over invoice (34,160). So I sent a mail to dealer X and said if he gave it for 33,750 - I would come on Sunday and cut him a check for it. It worked.

Last edited by beewang; 07-28-2005 at 05:19 PM.
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  #24  
Old 07-28-2005, 04:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turpiwa

Given my scenario - I want to order soon for a Thanksgiving pickup. If I gave a deposit in a week from now, is that generally enough to set the ball rolling and when would I next have to pony up - 1 month before delivery?
Yup, you should be good to go.
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  #25  
Old 07-29-2005, 06:08 AM
drfred drfred is offline
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deposit

My fun with Burdick never ends. I fedexd a $5k check to them in March for my june 20 delivery which they wrote down on their paperwork and sent the completed forms back to meback to me. My car arrived in the New York port on July 20th and I received a call from them. The salesman asked whether I ever sent in the check. I pointed out that he wrote the $5k deposit on the paperwork, he never would have ordered the car without it and I have my overnight receipt from them. He then said that he was sure that he saw the check on his desk and that the sales manager had seen it on his. However to be sure, would I fax down a copy
of the bank check so they could be sure. I dug out the flimsy second sheet of the bank check, thought what a bunch of idiots and faxed it down to them. A week later I get another call from the salesman. We expect your car any day now he said and we are going to clean it all up so it glistens. Hmmm, I thought. HOWEVER, he continued-we called your bank using the check numberof the copy and they never cashed the $5k check.
He then said that the people upstairs (bookkeeping) finally admitted that they tore up the check. Tearing up a $5000 check-must be nice. He asked me to put a stop payment on the check and send down another one which I did.
I feel so stupid having discovered this site after placing my ED order just using the BMW ED web site. I was given $800 off of ED MSRP and I thought -wow saving thousands plus an extra $800. Thinking about it, for just doing paperwork and screwing that up. Next time down the Thruway to Carbones in Utica.
Fred


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When ordering for ED, what is the generally accepted practise for amount of deposit at order time?
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