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E46 M3 (2001-2006)

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  #76  
Old 09-09-2005, 11:25 AM
Andre Yew Andre Yew is offline
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The GTR used a V8 that Porsche complained wasn't properly homologated, and even if it was, was against the spirit of the rules, which apparently only supported 6-cylinder engines. Or something like that.

Perhaps the most important reason was that the GTR was kicking Porsche butt left and right.

--Andre
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  #77  
Old 09-09-2005, 11:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andre Yew
The GTR used a V8 that Porsche complained wasn't properly homologated, and even if it was, was against the spirit of the rules, which apparently only supported 6-cylinder engines. Or something like that.

Perhaps the most important reason was that the GTR was kicking Porsche butt left and right.

--Andre
The other reason is that Porsche has an extensive customer racing program and BMW barely has one at all.
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  #78  
Old 09-10-2005, 10:22 PM
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Frank Rizzo Frank Rizzo is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EdCT
I understand your point and I agree (for the most part) many folks who attend drivers' schools are more likely to be somewhat cautious and appreciative of a car's limits. As a veteran of two Skip Barber schools I know I am.

However, your second point is perhaps the one to be concerned about; that is, the folks who'll buy these things who have no interest in schools and learning,only to stomp the gas pedal on the local parkways and back roads, feeling as if the car handles "like it's on rails" etc.

I just hope I'm not coming the other way, especially with teens behind the wheel or when these cars become cheap enough for their second and third owners.

The horsepower race, imo, is bad news, most amateurs can have plenty of fun with cars of far less power than what is currently the craze, I mean really, is the current M3 too timid, too "underpowered", too much of a poor handler? I don't think so, I think a lot of male testosterone and bravado is driving the "I need and must have a V8 in my next M3.....it's stupid.

Anyway, this is just my opinion and it makes no difference; the horsepower race will continue........

Ed

Me too!!!

I secretly pine for the days of 1981, when the Corvette had a respectable 165 HP.


..
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  #79  
Old 09-11-2005, 06:23 AM
99flhr 99flhr is offline
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Originally Posted by Frank Rizzo
Me too!!!

I secretly pine for the days of 1981, when the Corvette had a respectable 165 HP.


..
FWIW that was 1975, by 81 it was a stellar 190HP
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  #80  
Old 09-11-2005, 06:43 AM
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Originally Posted by Nick325xiT 5spd
The other reason is that Porsche has an extensive customer racing program and BMW barely has one at all.
The ACO was also unhappy that BMW did not run the cars at LeMans that year. However, if you remember the engine mapping wasn't really worked out at that point and they were putting fires out in the exhaust at the pit stops. The car wasn't ready for a 24 hour race at all.
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  #81  
Old 09-11-2005, 05:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andre Yew
The GTR used a V8 that Porsche complained wasn't properly homologated, and even if it was, was against the spirit of the rules, which apparently only supported 6-cylinder engines. Or something like that.

Perhaps the most important reason was that the GTR was kicking Porsche butt left and right.

--Andre
You mean like several cars and engiens that Porsche has raced without proper homolgation? There was no "spirit of the rules" there were the rules.
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  #82  
Old 09-11-2005, 05:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pinecone
You mean like several cars and engiens that Porsche has raced without proper homolgation? There was no "spirit of the rules" there were the rules.
I haven't seen anyone comment on David Haueter's (Seneca) article on the McLaren F1 GTR in the October issue of Bimmer Magazine. It's an excellent article with (of course) fine pictures of a beautiful car. His comments there are relevant here. David comments there about the changes in the 1996 European GT series where the "BPR rulemakers allowed the Porsche 911 GT1 to compete in the series. Unlike the clearly road-based McLaren, Ferrari F40 and the Lotus Esprit, the 911 GT1 was obviously a purpose-built race car that wasn't offered for sale to the public and had little in common with the 911 road car." This was what caused Gordon Murray to create the GTR. David quotes from Murray's book, "Driving Ambition". BTW, it's an excellent book I just got it from Amazon.

Many people (including BMW) had absolutely no sympathy for Porche's whining about the V8 in the M3 GTR.

Thanks David for a great article.
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Last edited by SteveT; 09-11-2005 at 05:57 PM.
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  #83  
Old 09-13-2005, 07:08 AM
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Personally, I admire BMW for sticking with the straight 6 for as long as they have, and they could still be competitive with it in the M3 if they wished. They could go turbo, a la Toyota's 3.0L 2JZ-GTE (Supra) or Nissan's 2.6L RB26DETT (Skyline). Both are straight 6's and can handle obscene amounts of horsepower for the displacement. I'm sure everybody here knows how much power you can get with ridiculously few mods on those engines. 500whp is no big whoop for a turbo Supra or Skyline. BMW could engineer a turbo solution that would compare favorably with both of those...the long stroke plus forced induction would meet horsepower requirements and be *just* torquey enough to compete against larger V-8's, and it would be lighter. Apparently weight reduction isn't a priority anymore, and I have to admit that the Supra and Skyline were both heavy cars (luxury features, AWD gear on the Skyline, etc). I wish BMW would at least explore the option but apparently they want to leave forced induction to the aftermarket, which I understand (to a point).

All IMHO.
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  #84  
Old 09-13-2005, 07:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theslik1
Personally, I admire BMW for sticking with the straight 6 for as long as they have, and they could still be competitive with it in the M3 if they wished. They could go turbo, a la Toyota's 3.0L 2JZ-GTE (Supra) or Nissan's 2.6L RB26DETT (Skyline). Both are straight 6's and can handle obscene amounts of horsepower for the displacement. I'm sure everybody here knows how much power you can get with ridiculously few mods on those engines. 500whp is no big whoop for a turbo Supra or Skyline. BMW could engineer a turbo solution that would compare favorably with both of those...the long stroke plus forced induction would meet horsepower requirements and be *just* torquey enough to compete against larger V-8's, and it would be lighter. Apparently weight reduction isn't a priority anymore, and I have to admit that the Supra and Skyline were both heavy cars (luxury features, AWD gear on the Skyline, etc). I wish BMW would at least explore the option but apparently they want to leave forced induction to the aftermarket, which I understand (to a point).

All IMHO.
Do some research before you suggest that an I6 saves weight. It doesn't. It worsens weight distribution and weighs more than the V8s BMW has designed. There's absolutely no reason for BMW to keep using an I6 other than to satisfy the traditionalists.
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  #85  
Old 09-13-2005, 06:46 PM
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But the S54 is an iron block, versus aluminum blocks in the V8s. That makes a BIG difference.
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  #86  
Old 09-13-2005, 07:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pinecone
But the S54 is an iron block, versus aluminum blocks in the V8s. That makes a BIG difference.
What's the designation for the new engines in the E90? That engine is a lighter I6 with it's magnesium/aluminum block.
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  #87  
Old 09-14-2005, 09:40 AM
Andre Yew Andre Yew is offline
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The E90 engines are N52.

--Andre
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  #88  
Old 09-14-2005, 02:33 PM
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Cool i have a ?

Hello all,

I have a question i know that the current 2005 m3's dont have i drives and the new ones do so the main thing is will i be able to tubo the new ones cuz it has an i drive?

-Pwned
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  #89  
Old 09-17-2005, 04:58 AM
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Why would the radio and heater controls ahve anything to do with whether you can turbo it or not????

BTW the i-Drive is an option in the E90 3 sereis, not standard like the 5 and 7 series.
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  #90  
Old 09-17-2005, 05:23 PM
DaKine DaKine is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick325xiT 5spd
Do some research before you suggest that an I6 saves weight. It doesn't. It worsens weight distribution and weighs more than the V8s BMW has designed. There's absolutely no reason for BMW to keep using an I6 other than to satisfy the traditionalists.
Not only that, but I would much rather have a well engineered naturally aspirated V8 than a force-fed inline 6.
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