Croatia

We're considering a 2nd ED. My wife has been looking at Slovenia. She also has found some amazing sites in Croatia. The BMW site says you can only drive in EU countries because the temp tag is only accepted in the EU. Croatia is not in the EU yet. Has anyone tried going outside of the EU? I would assume there is a way to get a tag that you could use in Croatia. Anyone have experience traveling in Croatia? From the sites she's looked at it sounds like it's safe and not "Discovered" yet.

Originally Posted by Sawbonz

We're considering a 2nd ED. My wife has been looking at Slovenia. She also has found some amazing sites in Croatia. The BMW site says you can only drive in EU countries because the temp tag is only accepted in the EU. Croatia is not in the EU yet. Has anyone tried going outside of the EU? I would assume there is a way to get a tag that you could use in Croatia. Anyone have experience traveling in Croatia? From the sites she's looked at it sounds like it's safe and not "Discovered" yet.

The Europeans have discovered it quite well already; it's we Americans who think we found it first.

If you go outside the listed countries, the Allianz insurance will also not cover you. That's not only a big risk, but it's also probably illegal in the country you're visiting.

Originally Posted by Sawbonz

The BMW site says you can only drive in EU countries because the temp tag is only accepted in the EU.

Not completely correct; several non-EU countries are on the permissible list.

Originally Posted by Sawbonz

I would assume there is a way to get a tag that you could use in Croatia.

Don't assume as it's not possible.

Originally Posted by Sawbonz

Anyone have experience traveling in Croatia?

My wife and I just returned from a non-ED vacation that included Slovenia and Croatia. We chose to avoid potential problems with taking an ED car to non-EU countries by renting this year, although that had it's own downsides. You do go through a modest border check going into Croatia, where you show passports, but nothing else (in our case). I can't say whether a zoll plate would have created an issue, but based on our experience it seems unlikely.

It turns out that the rental companies will not allow any German-built rental into any of the former eastern sector countries, including the Czech Republic, where we were also going. So our choices were limited. I selected based on economy. Our rental car was a new Fiat Bravo diesel - a decent, economical, slow and non-attention getting 4-door hatch. Not altogether bad in countries where you can't drive fast anyway.

Slovenia was delightful, but we only saw a small part. We spent two days at Lake Bled and one touring the Julian Alps before heading south into Croatia. There we visited Opatija, Plitvice Lakes, Split and Cavtat (a small coastal resort south of Dubrovnik). Croatia is rapidly rebuilding and upgrading its infrastructure, but it has a way to go to reach EU standards. There is a new freeway as far as Split, but two incomplete tunnels brought the traffic to a dead stop for an hour each. We took a lot of back roads, and they were fair at best but culturally interesting. Many homes in rural Croatia seem to be part-time body shops and junk yards. It appeared that cars that had been wrecked or couldn't pass EU safety tests were brought to Croatia to be repaired or parted out.

Every person we encountered in both countries spoke some English, including a woman at a roadside farm stand on a dirt road in inland Croatia. This part of the world is a true European crossroads of cultures. We routinely saw restaurant menus translated into at least four languages. The record we saw was seven languages on one menu.

Opatija was quite nice - very much like the French Riviera in style, but cheaper. It was crowded, frenetic, high-energy, and noisy. We spent only one night there, and wished we could have stayed longer.

Plitvice Lakes National Park was an unexpected joy. The hotel was OK, with retro decor. The park was amazing, with beautiful lakes and hundreds of waterfalls. We weren't expecting to have to hike as much as was required, but it was worth it. Highly recommended if you are the outdoor type.

Split was somewhat of a disapointment to us, compared to the tourist book hype. Worth a visit, but not as interesting as we expected.

Cavtat (pronounced "Sovtot") was our favorite place in Croatia. We chose it to avoid the crowds and expense of Dubrovnik, and it was a good call. Dubrovnik was beautiful and interesting, but overflowing with tourists in July. We walked the old city, then escaped back to our peaceful Cavtat. We stayed at the Haus Am Meer, a German-run hotel with modest rates and all the cleanliness and efficiency you would expect back in the fatherland. Go to www.snufie.de or email: zora.joksimovic@du.t-com.hr .

We also enjoyed two car-ferry excursions. The first was the Dubrovnik-Split day ferry, which stopped at Korcula and Hvar islands. The second was the Split-Ancona overnight ferry to Italy. We reserved staterooms for both ferry trips.

Here are some photos from our trip:

1. Bled - the famous church on the tiny island in Lake Bled
2. Vrsic Pass in the Julian Alps of Slovenia
3. Plitvice Lakes - just a few of the many lakes and waterfalls
4. Dubrovnik - the old city
4. Cavtat harbor

It is more than an issue of the Zoll plates and insurance. On pick-up you sign a statement that you will not take the car to countries that are not on the "permitted" list. In US-speak, that means you will also be violating a contractual agreement if you take your ED car to the "wrong" countries. Several of us think the statement is overly restrictive in that it does not list the "micro-states" such as San Marino, Andorra, etc. as permitted. But it is clearly meant to exclude Croatia at this time.

We did go to Slovenia twice during our June trip. Once was to Lipica and the regions near Friuli, coming in from Italy, and the other time a longer trip from Austria to Ljubliana via Bled. (See photos and descriptions at: http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=292289 .)

You didn't ask, but we also did a day trip to Bratislava in Slovakia, and there are photos in the same thread.

A few additional comments:

1. Let me know if you want me to scan or fax the paper with the country list.
2. The list of countries is still not in alphabetical order.
3. I think Norway has now been added, even though it is not in the EU.
4. I guess you can always violate the terms of the Zoll plates, the insurance, and any agreement you sign, but why would you want to do so?

Originally Posted by b-y

It is more than an issue of the Zoll plates and insurance. On pick-up you sign a statement that you will not take the car to countries that are not on the "permitted" list. In US-speak, that means you will also be violating a contractual agreement if you take your ED car to the "wrong" countries. Several of us think the statement is overly restrictive in that it does not list the "micro-states" such as San Marino, Andorra, etc. as permitted. But it is clearly meant to exclude Croatia at this time.

I don't recall signing a statement regarding the permitted countries. I looked in my papers and I see a page with a list of permitted countries (incidentally it does not include Norway nor Monaco, though both have been added to the list in bmwusa.com). With respect to insurance, the green insurance paper still had HR (Kroatia) as a valid country.

I seem to recall that a 'fester tried to drive into Croatia but decided against it when the border guards apparently wanted some kind of payoff from him (him being a former Croatian resident, I may be wrong in my recollection), but OP should try to search for it if it is of further interest.

Originally Posted by L Seca

It turns out that the rental companies will not allow any German-built rental into any of the former eastern sector countries, including the Czech Republic, where we were also going...

This should tell you something. What you are suggesting to do on an ED isn't exactly the smartest plan.

Sometimes I'm a little shocked about the cavalier "break the rules" attitude of people here that have no idea about life, laws, customs in Europe (well, German's actually call this American arrogance). Do you really want to drive a car that is worth $80,000 - $100,000 Dollars (in Europe) into eastern block countries? You will stick out like a sore thumb.

You are right, Croatia is a beautiful (!) place to visit, but certainly not with a brand new BMW. Shoot, I have seen cars broken into in France and Italy just because they were big expensive German cars with German plates (yeah, Opel and VW fall into this category - I'm not even talking BMW).

I know the American attitude often is "I'm going to do it my way, to heck with local regulations," but take a minute to think how little you know about what you are doing. Would you really park that car in Mexico city? Would your insurance even let you drive across the boarder into Mexico?

Sure, you could do it, but WHY?

Originally Posted by chaz58

I know the American attitude often is "I'm going to do it my way, to heck with local regulations," but take a minute to think how little you know about what you are doing. Would you really park that car in Mexico city? Would your insurance even let you drive across the boarder into Mexico?

I've never been to Mexico city (only 45 minutes to Tijuana), but I would regard Croatia as far less dangerous. Many Germans go on vacation to Croatia.

But nevertheless: It seems that BMW rules out driving to Croatia, so if I had a new ED-BMW which is not insured in Croatia: I would definetely not drive there.

Anyway. Here some pics:

Hey Chaz,
Lighten up. That would be why I'm posting here to get information. We haven't made plans. We're looking at possibilities. Seems to be a bit of EU arrogance here.

Aw, no worries. Nothing against you – there are just a subset of ED people who break the rules and then get all bent out of shape when faced with the consequences.

Croatia is gorgeous, and its not like it is a dangerous place. Your question is certainly valid. Croatia was the first spot on my list of possible destinations. However, it doesn't make sense for an ED; a new BMW will stick out over there (in a bad way). If a rental car company won't let you take your car over, that should raise a red flag.

Originally Posted by chaz58

Sometimes I'm a little shocked about the cavalier "break the rules" attitude of people here that have no idea about life, laws, customs in Europe (well, German's actually call this American arrogance).

I know the American attitude often is "I'm going to do it my way, to heck with local regulations," but take a minute to think how little you know about what you are doing.

For that I refer you to this thread.

Originally Posted by chaz58

Do you really want to drive a car that is worth $80,000 - $100,000 Dollars (in Europe) into eastern block countries? You will stick out like a sore thumb.

Let's not block all former Eastern block countries together. A new BMW does not really stick out like a sore thumb in Preßburg, Budapest, Praha, etc. In other countries, perhaps.

Originally Posted by L Seca

It turns out that the rental companies will not allow any German-built rental into any of the former eastern sector countries, including the Czech Republic, where we were also going. So our choices were limited.

Not true!

I've just returned from European vacation and visited Germany, Austria, Slovenia, Croatia and Bosnia with car rented in Frankfurt. We asked for permit to drive to Croatia and Bosnia and we got it. I think my rental cost went up a bit, but I was given a car.

www.autoeurope.com is the website we used to book our rental car.

Originally Posted by DTER

We asked for permit to drive to Croatia and Bosnia and we got it.

You asked for a permit or for permission?

We had permission on our contract with rental company to travel to Croatia and Bosnia. Crossing from Croatia into Bosnia we were asked to show registration and insurance (green paper) and it was fine, thank you and have a nice trip.

We made multiple border crossings and we had no difficulties at all in non EU countries with German rental car and US passports/drivers licence.

I'm planning ED for next summer and will buy additional insurance coverage for non EU countries if needed and there should be no issue going to Croatia with all other tourists from all over the Europe and there were many of them this year. It will be my car and I see no reason why coudn't I go for a great show off im my new BMW.

It is great to be an American, I can tell you that!

Originally Posted by DTER

.

I'm planning ED for next summer and will buy additional insurance coverage for non EU countries if needed and there should be no issue going to Croatia with all other tourists from all over the Europe and there were many of them this year.

Not possible to purchase additional coverage. And yes there IS an issue - you are agreeing to the terms of doing e.d. and that includes the fact that you are PERMITTED only to go into the countries listed.

Originally Posted by DTER

It will be my car and I see no reason why coudn't I go for a great show off im my new BMW.

It is great to be an American, I can tell you that!

I'm just quoting the above because it's so funny.

Originally Posted by DTER

...
We made multiple border crossings and we had no difficulties at all in non EU countries with German rental car and US passports/drivers licence.

I'm planning ED for next summer and will buy additional insurance coverage for non EU countries if needed and there should be no issue going to Croatia with all other tourists from all over the Europe and there were many of them this year. It will be my car and I see no reason why coudn't I go for a great show off im my new BMW.

...

Look...we don't work for BMW or the US or German governments or for any insurance company. We are just trying to give sensible advice to you and others who may read these threads. But please consider these points:

• The terms of the licensing and insurance for your new ED car do not depend on any rental car deal you may of had in the past.
• I seriously doubt you will find any respectable insurance company that will write a policy to cover you and your car for countries not allowed as part of the standard ED arrangement. The BMW ED people certainly do not sell such a "rider" or its equivalent.
• Even if you do find such a company, the temporary "Zoll" license plates are not valid outside of the listed countries. (I doubt that your rental car had these Zoll plates.)
• You will be notified of all this writing, and you do have to sign a statement accepting all the relevent terms of the ED program.

The bottom line is that there is nothing any of us can do to stop you from (a) violating a legal agreement and (b) acting in a foolish manner. Furthermore, I truly don't understand why--if you do plan on this course of action--you would broadcast (in the true sense of that word) your planned actions on the 'net.

Originally Posted by DTER

Not true!

I've just returned from European vacation and visited Germany, Austria, Slovenia, Croatia and Bosnia with car rented in Frankfurt. We asked for permit to drive to Croatia and Bosnia and we got it. I think my rental cost went up a bit, but I was given a car.

www.autoeurope.com is the website we used to book our rental car.

I suspect you may both be right. The original distinction had to do with a rental car built in Germany not renting a car in Germany. Just curious, was your rental a BMW, Mercedes, Audi, Opel or VW?

I know of my friend who went with a X3 to Bosnia, Croatia, Slovakia, Austria, and Slovakia with his ED BMW and nothing happened. Although he told me of some few close calls with traffic.. as traffic over there is crazy.

But nothing was said to him? Is it only a problem if something were to happen or is it like go at your own risk, not abiding the contract but if nothing happens then your off scot-free?

Thanks.

Bosnia, Croatia, Serbia, Slovakia etc... erm.... why do I have images of neo-nazi racists in my mind when these countries are mentioned? Not to mention scenes from that movie Hostel.

..... add the russian mafia to the picture too...

Originally Posted by vocalthought

Bosnia, Croatia, Serbia, Slovakia etc... erm.... why do I have images of ...

Just to clarify for others reading this thread: Slovakia is part of the EU (although not yet on the Euro), is in the Schengen zone, and is an acceptable destination for ED travels.(*)

We did a day trip to Bratislava (nee Preßburg) in June. I don't know about more rural locales, but our X3 only stood out because of its color. Below are three photos, chosen because of the variety of cars in the background. There is even another X3 in one of them. (L to R: two of downtown parts of Bratislava, then Devin castle ruins.)

*NOTE: Bee's nav disk even found us good central underground parking.

People commute from Bratislava to Vienna for work. I too wondered why Slovakia was put on that list.

Originally Posted by Dino335

But nothing was said to him? Is it only a problem if something were to happen or is it like go at your own risk, not abiding the contract but if nothing happens then your off scot-free?

Thanks.

Naturally it's possible nothing could happen so it is AYOR but I have heard legitimate reports of people being asked to post bond before bringing a car into a non EU country and, of course, if the car breaks down and you call from Croatia, do you think BMW E.D. service is going to come and get you?

I'm pretty adventurous but I mostly stick to countries which are on the ROADSIDE ASSISTANCE list, nevermind the approved list.

First of all let me be clear:

I will not break the law and make stupid decisions to ruin my vacation. If I'm not able to take ED car into Croatia legally I will obey the law.

Now:

You have no clue about Zoll Kennzeichen and you don't understand that almost all of the cars (used cars) are imported from Germany into Croatia, Bosnia and most other non EU and EU countries with Zoll Kennzeichen that are valid for 15 or more days. So talking that they are not valid is out of question. Insurance is the only and most important thing that is not valid and I'm aware of that. Croatia and Bosnia recognize Zoll licence plates like any other European country.
There are custom laws in all non EU countries and JSpira is right when he talks about posting a bond or such because authorities want to make sure that car will make it where it belongs or pay the custom fees for keeping the car in that country.

So, I'm not broadcasting my plan I'm only researching my options. Till summer 09, I'll have an answer for you.

Now follow this link and see likelihood of your car being stolen in EU country or you being robbed:

http://www.politicalarticles.net/blog/tag/auto-theft/

And this one:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti....html?ITO=1490

You are funny community!

PS.
My rental car was Opel!

Originally Posted by DTER

First of all let me be clear:

I will not break the law and make stupid decisions to ruin my vacation. If I'm not able to take ED car into Croatia legally I will obey the law.

A lot can change in a year, incl. BMW's regulations. I suppose the point is that, as it now stands, you are agreeing to all of BMW's rules when you sign the paperwork for e.d. This includes abiding by the list of "permitted" countries.

So today, legally, you cannot take your car into Croatia because you agreed not to. This has nothing to do with Croatia's laws per se but the law that governs the contract with BMW NA and BMW AG.

As I said, that could change tomorrow.

After all, it's a nice place to visit.