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  #1  
Old 09-21-2005, 12:20 AM
BayAreaBMWFan BayAreaBMWFan is offline
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Question Is SMG a Marketing failure, rather than a technical failure

The news that US Spec E90s 330s will not come with SMG, was a big disappointment to me. Some dealers like SARAFIL have posted that there is little demand for it. However I see very little awareness about the SMG. Most people do not know what it is and what it can do. The reviews in the automotive press have been mixed. Based on the comments I have read, most people do not understand how an SMG is to be driven. I drive a Z4 SMG and will chose an SMG over anything else, any day. I think the lackluster performance of the SMG in the US is more to do with poor marketing than poor technology.

I have the following questions:

1. Why is there no instructional DVD which guides new buyers about the following:
- What is an SMG
- How is it different from an slush box and an H manual
- How to drive a car with an SMG transmission
- In the manual shift mode
- In the automatic mode
- How to maximize your driving experience (Sports Mode, Auto Mode etc.)
- How to have smooth shifts with minimal jerks

You go to driving school as a teenager to learn driving an auto; so why no instructional DVD for folks learning a manual transmission.

2. Why is there no mention of the SMG in the BMW advertising material?
I am sure there are a lot of folks out there who want to complete the "ultimate driving experience" by having the control of a manual shifter. However, like me, most of them do not want a traditional manual. Either they do not want to mess with a clutch after a lifetime of slush-box, or share the car with someone who can not drive a manual. Why not explicitly target that semi-enthusiast market?

3. SMG as a differentiator:
When I was cross-shopping, I did not consider the Honda S2000 or the Nissan Z roadsters, because they do not have the SMG. In fact the only choices were the Z4 and the Porsches. With Infiniti and Acura closing the gap between them and the Bimmer, why doesn't BMW use the availability of the SMG as a clincher? I know it was the clincher for me. To me it seems like a wasted opportunity to highlight the Bimmers technical superiority over the Japanese.
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  #2  
Old 09-21-2005, 01:36 AM
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tierfreund tierfreund is offline
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I agree. SMG was not a technical failure. It was a communications failure. Too many people went to it looking for a better automatic while it really was a better manual.
Personally I loved SMG and I miss it now that I´m back to a manual in my E90.

But I guess the point is moot. The double clutch trannys that are comming up will be better than any manual and any auto combining the best of both worlds. They are great allready and will become even better.

Little known trivia: Porsche raced the Le Mans 24 hours in 1986 with a 962C with a twin-clutch box (known as the PDK (Porsche DoppelKupplungsgetriebe)). The car retired after 42 laps though. . Then the electronics were not competent enough for adaption of the principle in a road car, but today the computing power is there to finally get twin-clutch setups working in daily and long-term use.
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  #3  
Old 09-21-2005, 09:09 AM
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Cowboy Bebop Cowboy Bebop is offline
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most of the rest of the world isn't burdened by the addiction to Testosterone that afflicts us here in the USA.
Hence the "Row My Own or Die" luddite mentality so prevelant here.
there is nothing wrong with the SMG/DSG ( or anyother chosen TLA) and they are every bit as interactive and engaging if driven correctly.
YMMV.
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  #4  
Old 09-21-2005, 09:18 AM
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Nick325xiT 5spd Nick325xiT 5spd is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cowboy Bebop
most of the rest of the world isn't burdened by the addiction to Testosterone that afflicts us here in the USA.
Hence the "Row My Own or Die" luddite mentality so prevelant here.
there is nothing wrong with the SMG/DSG ( or anyother chosen TLA) and they are every bit as interactive and engaging if driven correctly.
YMMV.
Bull****. SMG is every bit as functional, and in some case more so than a manual, but there is absolutely no justifiable way in hell that you can claim it's as interactive. And I'm actually happy with SMG again, now that it's working properly.
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  #5  
Old 09-21-2005, 09:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cowboy Bebop
there is nothing wrong with the SMG/DSG ( or anyother chosen TLA) and they are every bit as interactive and engaging if driven correctly.
YMMV.
Actually, SMG had many bad reviews from car magazines. It wasn't the concept they hated, but the execution. My next new car will probably have some variation of an automated manual, but the current variation offered in 330's and Z4's wasn't advanced enough for me.
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Old 09-21-2005, 03:41 PM
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probally would have been more successful in the e46 & e85 had they recieved the same version that is in e46 m3's

I wonder why it was not- most articles I read on the m3 raved about it, and those on the z4 denigrated it

two more things held it back:

1) need for the sport package- if someone didn't want zsp, then smg becomes a $3k+ option, quite pricey...should have been offered in any config just like step (why wasn't it? I suppose the same reason M seats need the sport package in the z4...to force you to buy more options and raise more $)
2) price in general. smg is more $ than step. thus those who only really want an auto will still get the auto and save a couple hundred $, and those that want to get out the door as cheap as possible won't want to spend an extra $2k when they would just as soon drive a manual
perhaps if it was cheaper

now I wonder if it did better/worse in the 5er & 6er, as it's a no cost option, thus eliminating both of the above. though I think the average buyer of those vehicles is probally much dif. than those whom buy z's & 3's, and likely less prone to even want to drive a smg (or manual)...
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Old 09-21-2005, 04:15 PM
BayAreaBMWFan BayAreaBMWFan is offline
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Sometimes I wonder with those automotive reviewers.
Did they actually spend time to understand how the SMG operates? Or did their status automatically gave them all the knowledge they needed.

Some of them would pine that while driving a couple of thousand miles, the SMG behaved oddly (went into neutral) once or twice. What I wonder is that if the same driver had missed a shift while driving the manual would they have complained as much? Even the best drivers, will miss an occasional shift or two.

Education and awareness about the SMG is severely lacking. A part of the reason may be that BMWNA felt that the SMG is not ready for prime-time and hence held back their marketing dollars.

Also, when compared to a steptronic, the SMG is just a few hundred dollars more, not much. I guess the requirement of the ZSP makes it more expensive. But frankly, dont most manual drivers get the ZSP any way?
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  #8  
Old 09-21-2005, 04:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BayAreaBMWFan
3. SMG as a differentiator:
When I was cross-shopping, I did not consider the Honda S2000 or the Nissan Z roadsters, because they do not have the SMG. In fact the only choices were the Z4 and the Porsches....
you know the porsche is a standard automatic right?????
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  #9  
Old 09-21-2005, 04:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BayAreaBMWFan
But frankly, dont most manual drivers get the ZSP any way?
doubtful

In the last 3 years my family has purchased 6 bmws, 4 of them manuals. Out of those only 1 has had the sport package.

& I only added it to my 3.0i b/c it was necessary to get the M seats
If I could have gotten the seats w/o the sport package, I would have done so.
so in my instance I suppose BMW's strategy worked and they made a few more dollars off of me.
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  #10  
Old 09-21-2005, 04:33 PM
BayAreaBMWFan BayAreaBMWFan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whiskey.org
you know the porsche is a standard automatic right?????
Nope did not. I had heard that Porsche's had their version of SMGs. But I have never checked them out since they were well beyond my budget.
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  #11  
Old 09-21-2005, 07:12 PM
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I suspect if SMG was priced the same as a manual, more people would choose it. A buyer looking to the automatic is going to pay for the Step and probably not the SMG. The manual driver is not going to pay the extra since they can row their own. Anyhow SMG will probably remain in the M models since they command a premium price.
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  #12  
Old 09-21-2005, 07:31 PM
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IMO a good SMG box would be a perfect fit for a E90 330, it is a shame they will not be offering one.
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  #13  
Old 09-21-2005, 09:16 PM
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For the 2005 E60s, the SMG was a NO COST option. I dunno if that will still be true for the 2006 E60s. Hence, I picked up the SMG on my 545i and while it was frustrating for the first couple of days, I now love it. It DOES take some time to learn how to use this tranny.... A 30-minute ride from the dealer's lot is, unfortunately, an unfair test of the SMG...most will come away sour on this new piece of technology. I agree...BMW messed up marketing this transmission.
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  #14  
Old 09-21-2005, 09:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BayAreaBMWFan
Nope did not. I had heard that Porsche's had their version of SMGs. But I have never checked them out since they were well beyond my budget.
Porsche autos have been slushies and not SMG. The most affordable SMG-type trans offered in the U.S. was in the last generation Toyota MR2. It would have been neat if that car has more power.
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Old 09-21-2005, 09:44 PM
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  #16  
Old 09-22-2005, 05:28 AM
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JFI in Europe (non-M) SMG was priced between manual and step not above step (MT nocost, SMG 1200€ atep 2400€)
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Old 09-22-2005, 06:22 AM
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I read a bit of an interview with Helmut Panke or Goeschel or one of the BMW bigwigs that their big mistake with SMG was that they offered an automatic mode at all. They basically said that they should have just made the SMG manual-mode only. That would have eliminated all of the criticisms that it got for being a crappy automatic tranny.

-MrB
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  #18  
Old 09-22-2005, 06:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrbelk
I read a bit of an interview with Helmut Panke or Goeschel or one of the BMW bigwigs that their big mistake with SMG was that they offered an automatic mode at all. They basically said that they should have just made the SMG manual-mode only. That would have eliminated all of the criticisms that it got for being a crappy automatic tranny.

-MrB
That´s what I allways thought (and actually stated once in another thread about SMG)
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Old 09-22-2005, 06:33 AM
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I agree. People stick it in Auto mode and expect it to act like an automatic. That's where a lot of the bum rap came from. The auto mag reviews were bad partly because the reviewers went in to the test with a bad attitude about the technology - "another electronic 'nanny' from BMW", or "NOTHING can replace true manual". The Z4 SMG review was one of the worst car reviews I have seen. Unfortunate. In a year of driving my SMG I have never had a single problem with it
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  #20  
Old 09-22-2005, 10:25 AM
BayAreaBMWFan BayAreaBMWFan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrbelk
I read a bit of an interview with Helmut Panke or Goeschel or one of the BMW bigwigs that their big mistake with SMG was that they offered an automatic mode at all. They basically said that they should have just made the SMG manual-mode only. That would have eliminated all of the criticisms that it got for being a crappy automatic tranny.

-MrB
Hmm. That kills the biggest USP of the SMG. See the latest Roundel article on the SMG on the 6er. The problem here is customer education and setting the right expectations on what to expect from the tranny.
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  #21  
Old 09-22-2005, 12:26 PM
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Cowboy Bebop Cowboy Bebop is offline
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I would tend to disagree with you there.
The Auto suckshard, beside, how hard is it to push a knob or pull a paddle even in Rush hour traffic?
I NEVER use the Auto and would not miss it one bit.
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  #22  
Old 09-22-2005, 03:41 PM
BayAreaBMWFan BayAreaBMWFan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cowboy Bebop
I how hard is it to push a knob or pull a paddle even in Rush hour traffic?
I NEVER use the Auto and would not miss it one bit.
Neither do I but I would not have the SMG if the Auto mode was not there. Very few people are lucky to have a car they never have to share. Most cars will have a second driver who will drive the car on some occassion.
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  #23  
Old 09-22-2005, 08:40 PM
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some of us are just lucky I guess in that we have SO's that can drive a stick!
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  #24  
Old 09-22-2005, 09:45 PM
BayAreaBMWFan BayAreaBMWFan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cowboy Bebop
some of us are just lucky I guess in that we have SO's that can drive a stick!
Truly lucky indeed....
Let me guess she likes football and loves hockey too?
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Old 09-22-2005, 09:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ObD
I suspect if SMG was priced the same as a manual, more people would choose it. A buyer looking to the automatic is going to pay for the Step and probably not the SMG. The manual driver is not going to pay the extra since they can row their own. Anyhow SMG will probably remain in the M models since they command a premium price.
I agree with this statement, if SMG was the same price (free!) as the manual, I'd definitely give it a go...

still, i'm quite interested in the SMG, i've toyed with the idea for my next car... maybe the M version of the 1 series...
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