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F22 / F23 2 Series (2014 - Current)
The 2 Series coupe is the replacement for the E82/E88 1 series coupe. Production starts in November 2013 on the 228i (N20) and M235i (N55) coupes. Look for them in dealerships in February 2014. The convertible F23 2 series will follow in the fall of 2014.

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  #26  
Old 10-31-2017, 02:37 PM
Northwest240 Northwest240 is offline
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I really do not see the fascination people have w/ a moon-roof....yeah, back in the day it was a novelty, but I find them to be more trouble than they are worth.
In defense of moonroofs, I love them and can't imagine wanting a car without one. It's great to be able to look up occasionally and see the sky. If I could get a panoramic moonroof, that's even better. Of course we ordered a convertible so it doesn't matter, but my other car is an Audi A4 and all models have one without a delete option. I only wish it were a bigger panoramic version.

I've always had one in my cars save for the Nissan Sentra I inherited from my sister back when I was a teen as my first car ever, and have never had problems with them. And if I didn't want the sun on me, I'd just slide it shut on the inside (the inside cover, not the moonroof itself). To me, that gives maximum flexibility. You can hide the moonroof if you don't want one and slide it back open when you do.

The only reason I could ever see to not having a moonroof is if you're overly tall, like 6' 8", and have your head bumping up against the roof, but that would affect a very small percentage of the population in the front seats. You'd gain a couple of inches of headroom with a moonroof delete. The back seats are rather pointless to me, so I think of it as a 2-seater car with some emergency seats just in case.

But saying all that, I recognize everyone has different needs and wants and sympathize with all of you who didn't get what you want. I told my wife, when I encouraged her to try an M240i after she placed the initial order for a 230i, that if we were going to spend over $50K on a car, she should get what she wants, and not worry about a few thousand here or there because the difference will be dwarfed by the base price of the car. You spend an extra $5K so you won't regret having spent $50K. She took her test drive and promptly changed our order to the M240i.
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  #27  
Old 10-31-2017, 03:31 PM
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I've had a couple of cars with the moon roofs that leaked. With the M240i the extra 90+lbs that high in a car doesn't help handling. That being said, I begrudge no-one their opinions or choices. I think it's great to have them and a shame if we lose some of that flexibility.

There apparently is a disconnect between the configuration tool on the BMW website, the dealer's ordering program and the manufacturing plant. If I had to accept the M240i w/ a moon-roof w/ the other options I want, I would. However, I would exhaust other options or would look for other cars in their line where moon-roof could be eliminated before settling.
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Old 10-31-2017, 03:38 PM
Autoputzer Autoputzer is offline
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I use mine in Florida in the winter, spring, and fall. I opened mine this week, for the first time since April. In the summer, it's MAX AC when I first get in, followed by AC with the temperature set at 66F and the fan(s) on the third dot.

I suspect the big market for "sunroof delete" were people who wanted to track their cars, to get rid of weight and to make more headroom necessary when wearing a crash helmet. But, with the advent of the M2, most people would buy that car for the track instead of an M240i. Since there's no credit for deleting the sunroof, dealers don't want to get stuck with a moonroof-less car on their lot.

The new X3 supposedly is going to give a $1000 credit for deleting the sunroof. It's in the price guide, but not on BMWUSA.com's configurator.
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Old 11-01-2017, 07:50 AM
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Originally Posted by Northwest240 View Post
The only reason I could ever see to not having a moonroof is if you're overly tall, like 6' 8", and have your head bumping up against the roof, but that would affect a very small percentage of the population in the front seats. You'd gain a couple of inches of headroom with a moonroof delete.
I am only 6'2" - 6'3", depending who measures it, but with very long torso. I anxiously waited for the first F22s to show up at the local dealer to go and try to sit in one with seat all the way down. It was a 228i at the time, but, with moonroof, I had EXACTLY the same headroom as in my E92. And one of the main reasons to get rid of E92 was not being able to sit normally with helmet on. I would even hit the roof with my head without the helmet if I wanted to sit abnormally straight to stretch my spine in that E92.

So, no, you really do not need to be higher than 6'3" to have issues with moonroof. It was a very good thing when it was an option. I truly do not understand why they have to monkey around and force things that have nothing to do with federalization instead of making them a la carte options and price them accordingly.

Many think it is stupid, but I like the idea to be able, if I want to, choose color of my seatbelts - and pay $600 for the privilege. No, I didn't But I could have if I wanted to and had thought it to be important to me.
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  #30  
Old 11-01-2017, 08:44 AM
GrandMasterKhan GrandMasterKhan is offline
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wow that would have been a nightmare for me. I ordered mine w/o sunroof and I would have been super disappointed if it had one. It was the #1 thing I was worried about when ordering the car.
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  #31  
Old 11-01-2017, 09:26 AM
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So, has anyone taken delivery on a 2018 w/ the premium pkg and the moon-roof delete and gotten their car w/o the moon-roof?
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  #32  
Old 11-01-2017, 11:01 AM
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This is a bummer. Even with the F30 cars, with almost any reasonable configuration, one ends up with a moonroof (and delete is not even an option there).
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  #33  
Old 11-01-2017, 11:58 AM
yanks1 yanks1 is offline
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Wow, l wouldn't own a car without a moonroof, love light & fresh air 90% of the time
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  #34  
Old 11-01-2017, 12:03 PM
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Originally Posted by yanks1 View Post
Wow, l wouldn't own a car without a moonroof, love light & fresh air 90% of the time
Where I live, it's usually too hot, too cold, too much UV, and/or bad air quality. When I had a moonroof I used it maybe 10 times a year. Now that I have a car without one, I'm going to do my best to not get one in my next car.

The Giulia is the only decent choice without a sunroof now (aside from M cars), but one would have to give up MT.
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  #35  
Old 11-01-2017, 12:32 PM
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Where I live, it's usually too hot, too cold, too much UV, and/or bad air quality. When I had a moonroof I used it maybe 10 times a year. Now that I have a car without one, I'm going to do my best to not get one in my next car.

The Giulia is the only decent choice without a sunroof now (aside from M cars), but one would have to give up MT.
SW Florida is like an oven most of the year. I have AC on 100% of the time. Moon-roof open lets cool air out and noise in.

Moon-roof closed unless you have a sunshade is like sitting under a french fry lamp.

For me, moon roof doesn't make any sense.

Was looking at the 440i as my next purchase (a couple years from now). Can't tell by the website whether it comes w/ a moon roof by default or not. Hate to have to spend the extra for an M car as i do not need all that extra HP and the suffering MPG's.
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  #36  
Old 11-01-2017, 01:12 PM
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and for me the ONLY use of a sunroof is to search for CHP aircraft. Dead serious, never open it otherwise.
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  #37  
Old 11-01-2017, 03:50 PM
TYP 9R6 TYP 9R6 is offline
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Recent ED and moonroof story

I have a recent experience to add. I placed an order for a MY2018 M240i, I had waited for the LCI. After deliberating, I had the dealer put the ZDM moonroof delete option on the car. While I wasn't adamantly opposed, I thought if it wasn't there, it couldn't cause issues.

I did call BMW Genius and ask what the weight difference was with vs. without moonroof. Answer was about 35 lb. (U.S.)

I get to Munich in August, and arrive at the Welt several hours before my delivery. The ground floor has all the models on display, stores, etc., as many of you know. The next floor up has the turntables for car delivery, and then the customer lounge on the next floor. The elevator has windows, and as I'm going up to do the paperwork, I see an M240i on the delivery floor, but as the elevator climbs, I see it has a moonroof so I assume it's someone else's, as I'm early.

It takes maybe 10 minutes to do the paperwork, and off to the lounge I go. As I have time to kill, I'm reading through all the stuff, much of which is in German. In the green folio, there's the German title to the car. It also includes the plate number. I read it, and then walk around until I can see the cars on the delivery floor.

Uh-oh. The number on the title matches the car with the moonroof. My next thought is, "Okay, what else is wrong with the order?"

So when my pickup time arrives, I'm rather unhappy. I get the briefing and then we walk down the stairs to the car the BMW AG rep asks me if I've seen the car yet, and I tell her yes, and there's a problem. I don't believe she's used to having unhappy people at what is usually a very happy event.

She asks me, "Is this okay?" referring to the moonroof I ordered deleted. I said no, because it's not what I ordered and didn't come 2,000+ miles to be surprised.

She says something to the effect of "Perhaps the dealer made a mistake?" I said no, he didn't, as I watched his screen as he did it, and as a matter of fact I have a printout from your computer system that shows the car with status of 176 - Workshop Exit and the ZDM moonroof delete code is intact.

She looks a the sheet, looks at the moonroof and says, "Let me check with my colleagues." While she's doing this, I check the rest of the car and it matches my build. As I know it takes 10 days for Leipzig to build a car, I'm either going to have to take this one, or the ED will be a bust.

She comes back from the desk and says, "Is this okay?"

I respond not really, but it's not as if I have a choice. In fact one has to sign for the car before ever inspecting it, so I don't know how that figures in.

Later I contact the dealer, and he had no idea this was happening, and he wasn't happy, either. After I got back, he went though the log and saw that at some point after the car was finished someone in N.J. (I assume this was BMWNA) removed the ZDM to make the computer match the car. The Maroney sticker doesn't have the ZDM on it, either.

So it does not surprise me that you guys are not able to delete the moonroof. I would be okay with that had I been told up front, but it really made for a disappointing experience. There should be no way their SAP system allows a car to be built that's different than the order.

I'm not tall nor will I wear a helmet in the car, so it's not a functional issue. I did try the moonroof and it manages airflow well.

As for the weight, I don't think there's any way you could ever tell, especially with the EPAS steering calibration (the Achilles' Heel). While a topic for a different thread, I could tell no difference between the M235i's steering I test drove and my car. To me, there isn't enough weighting, though it does get a bit better above 80 MPH (not too relevant in the U.S.)

The real problem is that the steering wheel doesn't contain any contact patch information, what's going on up front. Some people have called it "numb," but that's not right. It goes where you point it, and it's not dull. I would say "mute" describes it more precisely. It just doesn't say much of anything. That makes sense for say, an X-series buyer, or a buyer coming over from Lexus, but to me, a BMW car with an "M" in the name should have good to very good steering feel. It doesn't. A Mk VII Golf has better EPAS, and Porsche's EPAS is far superior, so it is possible.

At any rate, good luck with your ZDM attempts.
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Old 11-01-2017, 04:43 PM
yanks1 yanks1 is offline
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Moonroof delete option no long available?

Hmmm.., to each their own

We have places in NJ & SC; when hot I close shade. If cold in NJ I have heat on, but pop moonroof open for fresh air. Open in morning or evening is great while Sun is lower in sky

Last edited by yanks1; 11-01-2017 at 04:45 PM.
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  #39  
Old 11-01-2017, 07:41 PM
Northwest240 Northwest240 is offline
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Many think it is stupid, but I like the idea to be able, if I want to, choose color of my seatbelts - and pay $600 for the privilege. No, I didn't But I could have if I wanted to and had thought it to be important to me.
I'll agree with you that every feature should be available ala carte or with minimal packages. It really stinks when you choose an option and it makes it impossible to get something else that isn't remotely related to the feature you chose, e.g. give me my moonroof delete without package XYZ dragging it back in.

Here's another example. We ordered the M240i but also wanted the adaptive cruise control. It isn't available at all on the M240i. Our original order was for a 230i and did have the option. But there's a package, I think track handling (all features of which are standard on all M240i's), that takes the adaptive cruise control off the table. Why?!!!?!??!

If you think BMW is bad for that, just look at Mercedes. They're the worst I've seen. They'll have comfort features and tech features, allowing you to choose one or the other in gigantic packages with 15 or more features in them, but not both. How dumb is that when they won't let you have comfort AND tech?

At least Audi has minimal options. You choose a trim level and you get very few options to add, but some of their choices are also maddening. Why can't I get ventilated seats without having to drag in an entire sports package that includes an uncomfortable sports suspension? So in order to get a comfort feature, I have to change my comfortable suspension to a much firmer one. Hmm. Here's another mind boggler from Audi. On the S4, you can only get ventilated seats in black. Huh? Black is the worst color for heat, but if you don't get ventilated seats, you can choose from a decent variety of colors including brown and beige. But if you want to be cool, you have to choose black seats!?!?!?

Last edited by Northwest240; 11-01-2017 at 08:20 PM.
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  #40  
Old 11-01-2017, 08:20 PM
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Hmmm.., to each their own

We have places in NJ & SC; when hot I close shade. If cold in NJ I have heat on, but pop moonroof open for fresh air. Open in morning or evening is great while Sun is lower in sky
I agree — to each their own!

The moonroof probably wouldn’t bother me as much if it weren’t for the grating at the front which reminds me it’s always there.
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  #41  
Old 11-02-2017, 07:16 AM
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My two cents on moonroofs (not the OP's trouble with moonroof delete - sorry you are having such problems - I believe if you order moonroof delete, you should receive what you ordered). I love moonroofs, and one of the nicest surprises for me when test driving the M240i is that unlike many modern vehicles, the moonroof is not located so far back that the driver can not enjoy it. Here in Georgia, we have a mild climate, so I keep the moonroof open on my M240i most of the time (with the exception of summer days). It adds a lot to the driving experience for me.
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  #42  
Old 11-02-2017, 01:42 PM
Mark K Mark K is offline
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Here's another example. We ordered the M240i but also wanted the adaptive cruise control. It isn't available at all on the M240i. Our original order was for a 230i and did have the option. But there's a package, I think track handling (all features of which are standard on all M240i's), that takes the adaptive cruise control off the table. Why?!!!?!??!
Strange, just dodging flying objects on a Porsche forum for the same reason/question.

I have no idea how it ended, but there was a story circulating around that BMWCCA was banning vehicles with adaptive cruise from participating on the track weekends (HPDE). This turned out into counter-sotry where this was just Internet BS. Then I believe I read somewhere that some chapters DID, in fact, turn some people away. I have no idea how much of that is truth and how much isn't, but I can tell you this - when on track, the LAST thing you want is having around vehicles that act unpredictably. Just because you are at 500 marker doing 130 mph and cars at 100 marker are doing half that, there is no reason to apply brakes before 400 marker for leisurely braking. Treshold braking is at about 250 marker. Car behind you is 2 feet away doing the same speed - you MUST be predictable otherwise there will be a lot of pain and money to pay.

So, long sobbing story short, I do see a perfect reason why cars going on the track should not have that option - even if it is possible to enable/disable. Consequences of simply forgetting that are too much. Ask me how many times did I forget to turn AC off after leaving hot pits or my DRLs. Yeah, same difference except for possible consequences.

I hope that cleared it up a bit.

Quote:
Why can't I get ventilated seats without having to drag in an entire sports package that includes an uncomfortable sports suspension? So in order to get a comfort feature, I have to change my comfortable suspension to a much firmer one. Hmm. Here's another mind boggler from Audi. On the S4, you can only get ventilated seats in black. Huh? Black is the worst color for heat, but if you don't get ventilated seats, you can choose from a decent variety of colors including brown and beige. But if you want to be cool, you have to choose black seats!?!?!?
Just yesterday I was in a car with two colleagues going back home after visiting local customer. 1 hour 45 minutes drive. At one point the discussion started about how smart municipalities could use data from Google to figure out wait on traffic lights and operate them accordingly at least during rush hour. To which I had to comment that U.S. has Silicon Valley which encourages such thinking. France and Italy do not have Silicon Valley, so they have roundabouts that work better than any traffic light no matter how it is managed

What has that to do with seats? Well, in France and Italy I am sure you can have your Audi with cloth seats - they need no heating nor ventilation
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Last edited by Mark K; 11-02-2017 at 01:44 PM.
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  #43  
Old 11-02-2017, 09:05 PM
Northwest240 Northwest240 is offline
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Strange, just dodging flying objects on a Porsche forum for the same reason/question.

I have no idea how it ended, but there was a story circulating around that BMWCCA was banning vehicles with adaptive cruise from participating on the track weekends (HPDE).
The problem with that is that 99.9999% of people driving M240i's or 230i's are not taking their cars to the track, one reason why I wouldn't think of needing a helmet clearance when considering a moonroof. Why would they take away a valuable feature that would never be used on a track from all the people who don't go to the track, ever?

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Originally Posted by Mark K View Post
Just yesterday I was in a car with two colleagues going back home after visiting local customer. 1 hour 45 minutes drive. At one point the discussion started about how smart municipalities could use data from Google to figure out wait on traffic lights and operate them accordingly at least during rush hour. To which I had to comment that U.S. has Silicon Valley which encourages such thinking. France and Italy do not have Silicon Valley, so they have roundabouts that work better than any traffic light no matter how it is managed

What has that to do with seats? Well, in France and Italy I am sure you can have your Audi with cloth seats - they need no heating nor ventilation
Cloth seats... yuck. Cloth seats and luxury cars just don't mix. I know there are animal rights activists and such who don't like leather, or people who wear shorts, but most people associate luxury with leather. Why it's a challenge for Audi to dye perforated leather a different color than black is beyond me.

Last edited by Northwest240; 11-02-2017 at 09:06 PM.
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  #44  
Old 11-02-2017, 09:12 PM
Mark K Mark K is offline
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Originally Posted by Northwest240 View Post
The problem with that is that 99.9999% of people driving M240i's or 230i's are not taking their cars to the track, one reason why I wouldn't think of needing a helmet clearance when considering a moonroof. Why would they take away a valuable feature that would never be used on a track from all the people who don't go to the track, ever?
Yes, agreed, but your "Why?!?!???!?" was about Track Handling Package automatically deletes ACC and I was trying to explain that it actually makes sense. If you don't ever intend taking that car on track, pass on Track Handling Package and get ACC no problem. Right?

In any case, bundling options into packages will always create problems one way or another - on that I do agree 100% .

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Old 11-02-2017, 09:35 PM
Northwest240 Northwest240 is offline
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Yes, agreed, but your "Why?!?!???!?" was about Track Handling Package automatically deletes ACC and I was trying to explain that it actually makes sense. If you don't ever intend taking that car on track, pass on Track Handling Package and get ACC no problem. Right?

In any case, bundling options into packages will always create problems one way or another - on that I do agree 100% .

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Actually it is a problem because you can't get rid of a package on the M240i. All those features are standard, so there's no way to get ACC on any M240i, no matter how you configure it.

And ACC is not a standard feature. If you intend to go to a track with your car and your track doesn't allow ACC, then don't get the option. I could understand it if ACC were standard, but it's not.

My wife had a comment on that... they ran out of plugs. lol. Basically she was joking that they can only have a certain number of features before they have to start removing some.
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Old 11-02-2017, 10:01 PM
Autoputzer Autoputzer is offline
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Originally Posted by Northwest240 View Post
The problem with that is that 99.9999% of people driving M240i's or 230i's are not taking their cars to the track, one reason why I wouldn't think of needing a helmet clearance when considering a moonroof. Why would they take away a valuable feature that would never be used on a track from all the people who don't go to the track, ever?


Cloth seats... yuck. Cloth seats and luxury cars just don't mix. I know there are animal rights activists and such who don't like leather, or people who wear shorts, but most people associate luxury with leather. Why it's a challenge for Audi to dye perforated leather a different color than black is beyond me.
Cloth seat were fairly common on high-end cars in Europe well into the 1980's. The current M3/4 offers cloth (in the center) with leather bolsters (that get the heavy wear). I've spent some time driving one of these cloth-seat M3's and I prefer it over the leather.

I was looking at a limousine from 1950 in a museum years ago. It had leather seats for the driver's seat. But, the back seat for the passenger was wool broadcloth.

I admit that leather looks better. But, after a day in my leather car seat... I stink... not as bad as before ventilated seats... but I still stink. A hotel clerk was flirting with me when I was checking in. She complimented me on my M3, asked if she could go sit in it, and said she love the smell of leather car seats. I told her my car was ten years old, so now it smells like me instead of like a new BMW. (She wasn't my type, and she lost interest in sitting in my car.)

My biggest gripe about Southwest Airlines is their leather seats. Well, second biggest after the missing screws I saw on the engine cowl on one flight.
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  #47  
Old 11-02-2017, 10:04 PM
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mr_clueless mr_clueless is offline
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Originally Posted by Autoputzer View Post

My biggest gripe about Southwest Airlines is their leather seats.
Most domestic airlines are moving in that direction when they refurbish or buy new aircraft.
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  #48  
Old 11-03-2017, 08:47 AM
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USA-RET USA-RET is offline
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Soooo, back to the moon roof subject................

Anyone get a 2018 w/o a moon-roof?

http://www.2addicts.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1393845

Interesting to see Moon-roof included in the sport pkg ZMP w/ a delete option later in the options list w a -$900 cost. M240i has the sport pkg as standard equip incl w/ car, No?
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Last edited by USA-RET; 11-03-2017 at 09:08 AM.
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  #49  
Old 11-03-2017, 07:35 PM
alpinweiss alpinweiss is offline
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Originally Posted by Northwest240 View Post
The problem with that is that 99.9999% of people driving M240i's or 230i's are not taking their cars to the track, one reason why I wouldn't think of needing a helmet clearance when considering a moonroof. Why would they take away a valuable feature that would never be used on a track from all the people who don't go to the track, ever?
Remember that to some of us, the moonroof is not a “valuable feature”. To me, a moonroof is unwanted. I am almost 6’4” tall, and I do not have a spare 2” of headroom to give up for a moonroof. I will do what is necessary to delete the moonroof, even if it means ordering another model or another brand of car.

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  #50  
Old 11-03-2017, 07:39 PM
Northwest240 Northwest240 is offline
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Mein Auto: M240i
Quote:
Originally Posted by alpinweiss View Post
Remember that to some of us, the moonroof is not a "valuable feature". To me, a moonroof is unwanted. I am almost 6'4" tall, and I do not have a spare 2" of headroom to give up for a moonroof. I will do what is necessary to delete the moonroof, even if it means ordering another model or another brand of car.

That quote was actually in reference to the loss of the adaptive cruise control option from even being a possibility in all M240i's, one of numerous features I mentioned that you may have difficulty getting due to packages, missing options, etc. I sympathize with everyone not being able to get what they want, including a moonroof delete option. Hopefully they didn't take it away from those who don't want one.
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