Un-freaking-believeable... - Bimmerfest - BMW Forums



Go Back   Bimmerfest - BMW Forums > BMW Model Discussions > 3 Series & 4 Series > F30 / F31 / F32 / F33 / F34 / F36 (2012 - current)

F30 / F31 / F32 / F33 / F34 / F36 (2012 - current)
The sixth generation BMW 3 Series Sedan F30/F31/F34 and the first first generation 4 Series Coupe F32/F33/F36. Get the latest 3 and 4 series pricing from our ordering and pricing guide sticky thread.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 11-12-2017, 10:01 AM
767_Captain's Avatar
767_Captain 767_Captain is offline
bimmerfest Supporting Member
Location: New Smyrna Beach, Florida
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 58
Mein Auto: '15 435i M Sport Convert.
Angry Un-freaking-believeable...

Recently my dealer serviced my 435i to include an oil and filter change. Unfortunately it turned out that they did not properly torque the drain plug so as a result, about two weeks after the fact while I was on the road it backed completely out and in very short order all the oil departed. I was on the freeway and the "add engine oil" message appeared in the information center. Within a minute the message changed from amber to red and displayed "No Oil Pressure! Shut off engine immediately and contact Roadside Assistance!" As I was approaching an off-ramp I exited the freeway, pulled into a service station at the nearest corner, parked and shut it off. I was met by a rapidly expanding puddle of oil beneath the engine and oil splattered on the back and sides.

Roadside Assistance had a towing company there in 2Ĺ hours and got us to the local dealer. The next day they discovered the drain plug resting on the underbody pan and (surprise) virtually no oil left in the engine. They reinstalled the plug, changed the filter and saw no indication of metal contamination, serviced the oil and started the engine. It sounded fine but I told them I wasn't comfortable driving it away. By now I had been in touch with my local dealer, brought them up to speed and told them the same thing. They understood completely and made arrangements to have the vehicle transported back where they will get into the engine to ascertain the extent of damage.

Your thoughts? Anyone?
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	File Nov 12, 11 54 31 AM.jpeg
Views:	441
Size:	477.7 KB
ID:	708929  
__________________
'15 435i M Sport Convertible | Estoril Blue | Oyster Dakota w/matte Estoril Blue accents | pretty much every option except LED lighting...

Last edited by 767_Captain; 11-12-2017 at 10:18 AM.
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #2  
Old 11-12-2017, 10:49 AM
jjrandorin jjrandorin is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: San Diego
 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 6,893
Mein Auto: 435 Grand Coupe MSport
Wow...

Avoiding things like this is exactly why someone takes the car to the dealer in the first place. I hope everything is ok with the car. I also hope if they find something wrong, they dont try to say "well that was two weeks ago, so we dont know what happened since then..." They shouldnt, but they could. Lets hope they dont.
__________________
2016 435 Grand Coupe Estoril Blue MSport |Hex. EB Trim-Blk. Dakota | MSoort | Technology | Drivers Asst. | Drivers Assist+|Lighting |Track Pack W/ 442 Wheels |Heated Frnt Seats | Smartphone Integration | HK Stereo (His)

2016 X5 XDrive35d Space Grey |Blk Dakota W/ Fineline Oak | MSport | Lighting Pack | Premium Pack | Drivers Assist | Drivers Assist + | ACC W Stop N Go | 20" Wheels| Smartphone Integration | Multi Contour Seats | HK Stereo (hers)

BMW CCA #477341
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 11-12-2017, 11:00 AM
namelessman namelessman is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: northern california
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 7,442
Mein Auto: bimmer
This was extremely unfortunate. If the engine still pulls for a few hundred yards and/or stays on for a few minutes, there probably will be considerable engine damage.

Do talk to the GM about this. Assuming there is no one else that touches the drain plug after the last dealer service, the dealer will need to step up on this.
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #4  
Old 11-12-2017, 11:04 AM
Jrill Jrill is online now
Registered User
Location: NC
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 10
Mein Auto: 320i xdrive
Should be fine. If the oil had just come out like you described there should be no damages. An engine could run on the residual oil for longer than you might think without damaging.

Sent from my XT1585 using Bimmerfest mobile app
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 11-12-2017, 11:04 AM
bimmerbingo bimmerbingo is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Oregon
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 344
Mein Auto: 2015 435i x-drive F32
Same thing happened to a friend of mine with her Mitsubishi Lancer, was driving on the highway when the engine shut off completely. In her case the engine was a total loss and had to fight her insurance and dealership to buy her a new one. I really hope you're out of the woods.
Free maintenance on my 435 expires next year and I'm planning to do the oil changes myself, really hard to trust anyone these days.
__________________
2015 435i X-Drive M-Sport, Sapphire Black, MPPK, MPE, Style 624M M-Performance wheels
2015 328i X-Drive M-Sport, Alpine White
2007 328i RWD E92 (traded)
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 11-12-2017, 12:16 PM
NYMEX NYMEX is offline
Registered User
Location: Minnesota
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Posts: 2
Mein Auto: 428i xdrive
Unfortunately, I'd expect that engine to be junk.

In my 428i the timing chain guide failed and got ground up into little pieces. These then proceeded to plug up the oil pick up tube and starved the engine of oil. The only indication I got was the "shut down engine immediately" (warning as you described) and I did just that.


My car was a 2014 428i with just over 20,000 miles; still under warranty. BMW NA replaced the engine after finding score marks on the crankshaft/rod bearings.

I'd get an attorney to write that dealership a letter of they don't go good for an engine replacement. Getting sued in court for something they obviously caused is last thing they want publicised.

Sent from my SM-G955U1 using Bimmerfest mobile app
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 11-12-2017, 12:19 PM
namelessman namelessman is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: northern california
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 7,442
Mein Auto: bimmer
The interesting thing is OP said the drain plug was completely unscrewed and rest on the underside panel. This sounds odd as it takes quite a few turns to fully remove the drain plug, even when the plug was not properly torqued.

If the drain plug is completely "dislodged", it will only take a few minutes to completely drain all oil(no residual oil left), and OP's picture in post#1 seems to indicate just that.

If the drain plus is not torqued correctly, the oil loss in those 2 weeks should be gradual, and OP should not have gotten a catastrophic "no oil pressure" red light on the freeway.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 11-12-2017, 12:29 PM
767_Captain's Avatar
767_Captain 767_Captain is offline
bimmerfest Supporting Member
Location: New Smyrna Beach, Florida
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 58
Mein Auto: '15 435i M Sport Convert.
Quote:
Originally Posted by namelessman View Post
The interesting thing is OP said the drain plug was completely unscrewed and rest on the underside panel. This sounds odd as it takes quite a few turns to fully remove the drain plug, even when the plug was not properly torqued.

If the drain plug is completely "dislodged", it will only take a few minutes to completely drain all oil(no residual oil left), and OP's picture in post#1 seems to indicate just that.

If the drain plus is not torqued correctly, the oil loss in those 2 weeks should be gradual, and OP should not have gotten a catastrophic "no oil pressure" red light on the freeway.
The first indication I got was the "low engine oil" caution message just before the "No Oil Pressure!..." message. Your conclusions seem plausible. I know little about the specifics of this car's drain plug.
__________________
'15 435i M Sport Convertible | Estoril Blue | Oyster Dakota w/matte Estoril Blue accents | pretty much every option except LED lighting...
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 11-12-2017, 12:35 PM
Doug Huffman's Avatar
Doug Huffman Doug Huffman is online now
Nuclear engineer
Location: Washington Island, Wisconsin, thru Death's Door
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 5,764
Mein Auto: 2012 Feb 11 X5 35d (E70)
@767_Captain; do you happen to know the hourly rate for your servicing A&P Mechanics, and how that compares with BMW Certified Technicians?

We had a pizza-ing contest with our inspectors once, and in retaliation they would not accept a lockwired fastener with the slightest nick or scraping of the SS lockwire. The mechanics used a twisting-pliers hand tool to twist the lockwire. I put on a couple of extra layers of cotton glove liners under my rubber gloves, taped the cuffs so that the red 'sweat' would not run out, and spent eighteen hours lockwiring a reactor head by hand, no tools, with no rejections.

"Quite a few turns," the sump drain on my 62 hp racing engine took just a few laps to come out, but I saved the engine.
__________________
I am responsible for what I write, not for your understanding of it.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 11-12-2017, 12:47 PM
767_Captain's Avatar
767_Captain 767_Captain is offline
bimmerfest Supporting Member
Location: New Smyrna Beach, Florida
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 58
Mein Auto: '15 435i M Sport Convert.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug Huffman View Post
767_Captain; do you happen to know the hourly rate for your servicing A&P Mechanics, and how that compares with BMW Certified Technicians?...
Hmm...don't know. I'm headed out on the road tomorrow so when I speak to a mechanic I'll ask.
__________________
'15 435i M Sport Convertible | Estoril Blue | Oyster Dakota w/matte Estoril Blue accents | pretty much every option except LED lighting...
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 11-12-2017, 01:25 PM
BLT's Avatar
BLT BLT is offline
.
Location: Sierra foothills
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 7,929
Mein Auto: 330i, R90/6, R60/5
Quote:
Originally Posted by 767_Captain View Post
Hmm...don't know. I'm headed out on the road tomorrow so when I speak to a mechanic I'll ask.
I suspect that your main bearings are toast. A detailed oil analysis is the only way to tell without dismantling the engine.
But since any oil in your engine will be fresh you will have to wait a couple of thousand miles before you know. The only thing you can check today is your oil filter (if it hasnít been replace already), take out the filter element and store it in a safe place. If there are any shards of metal in the folds you know your engine needs to be rebuilt.
__________________
Drama queens don't wear panties.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 11-12-2017, 01:27 PM
767_Captain's Avatar
767_Captain 767_Captain is offline
bimmerfest Supporting Member
Location: New Smyrna Beach, Florida
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 58
Mein Auto: '15 435i M Sport Convert.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BLT View Post
I suspect that your main bearings are toast. A detailed oil analysis is the only way to tell without dismantling the engine.
But since any oil in your engine will be fresh you will have to wait a couple of thousand miles before you know. The only thing you can check today is your oil filter (if it hasnít been replace already), take out the filter element and store it in a safe place. If there are any shards of metal in the folds you know your engine needs to be rebuilt.
That's what I suspect as well.
__________________
'15 435i M Sport Convertible | Estoril Blue | Oyster Dakota w/matte Estoril Blue accents | pretty much every option except LED lighting...
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 11-12-2017, 01:33 PM
767_Captain's Avatar
767_Captain 767_Captain is offline
bimmerfest Supporting Member
Location: New Smyrna Beach, Florida
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 58
Mein Auto: '15 435i M Sport Convert.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NYMEX View Post
...BMW NA replaced the engine after finding score marks on the crankshaft/rod bearings.
So how exactly did that go? Did the dealership perform the engine change? I would have a hard time trusting them with something like that when they screwed up something as simple as an oil change. I've had many oil changes performed, not just by dealerships but by $19.95 "Jiffy Lube" down on the corner and never had this happen and yet this BMW dealership couldn't get it right...

Quote:
Originally Posted by NYMEX View Post
I'd get an attorney to write that dealership a letter of they don't go good for an engine replacement. Getting sued in court for something they obviously caused is last thing they want publicized.
Right there with you. I have one briefed and ready to do precisely that.
__________________
'15 435i M Sport Convertible | Estoril Blue | Oyster Dakota w/matte Estoril Blue accents | pretty much every option except LED lighting...

Last edited by 767_Captain; 11-12-2017 at 01:36 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 11-12-2017, 01:37 PM
Wgosma's Avatar
Wgosma Wgosma is online now
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: California
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 2,608
Mein Auto: 2000 528i M-sport 5spd
Best of luck on getting this resolved- if it were me Iíd be pushing for partial engine disassembly and inspection.

Iím a bit surprised you kept the motor running long enough to exit freeway and park after the Ďno oil pressureí warning...might have been better idea to get in right lane ASAP, shut off motor and pull onto shoulder.

Good luck/Bill


Sent from my iPhone using Bimmerfest
__________________
Bill / 00 528i 5-spd M-Sport
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 11-12-2017, 01:41 PM
767_Captain's Avatar
767_Captain 767_Captain is offline
bimmerfest Supporting Member
Location: New Smyrna Beach, Florida
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 58
Mein Auto: '15 435i M Sport Convert.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wgosma View Post
Iím a bit surprised you kept the motor running long enough to exit freeway and park after the Ďno oil pressureí warning...might have been better idea to get in right lane ASAP, shut off motor and pull onto shoulder.
Yes, I've considered that, trust me...
__________________
'15 435i M Sport Convertible | Estoril Blue | Oyster Dakota w/matte Estoril Blue accents | pretty much every option except LED lighting...
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 11-12-2017, 02:37 PM
Wgosma's Avatar
Wgosma Wgosma is online now
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: California
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 2,608
Mein Auto: 2000 528i M-sport 5spd
The shop ought to at least pull the oil pan and valve cover to inspect the crankshaft and cams, bearings, etc.
good luck/Bill


Sent from my iPhone using Bimmerfest
__________________
Bill / 00 528i 5-spd M-Sport
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 11-12-2017, 03:00 PM
tturedraider's Avatar
tturedraider tturedraider is offline
Freedom isn't free!!
Location: Chicago, Edgewater (via Tennessee & Texas)
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 19,604
Mein Auto: '06 Sonora/Beige 330i :-)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jrill View Post
Should be fine. If the oil had just come out like you described there should be no damages. An engine could run on the residual oil for longer than you might think without damaging.

Sent from my XT1585 using Bimmerfest mobile app
+1 - Iím in agreement with this. Based the the events as described it sounds unlikely the motor sustained damage.
__________________

Present - '06 E90 330i sport; Past - '04 E46 ZHP, '00 E46 328i
www.bmwcca.org
member #388003 - Use me as a referral & you could win a one day ///M Driving School!!
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 11-12-2017, 03:09 PM
jparnes1 jparnes1 is online now
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Rochester, NY
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 745
Mein Auto: 2011 Z4 35i, 2006 525xi
Quote:
Originally Posted by jjrandorin View Post
Wow...

Avoiding things like this is exactly why someone takes the car to the dealer in the first place.

Nope. This is exactly why many of us do our own oil changes.



Sent from my iPhone using Bimmerfest mobile app
__________________
2016 340i XDrive, Estoril Blue / Black, 6 MT, M Sport, Track, Lighting, Technology, Driver Assistance Plus, Cold Weather.

2012 Z4 35i, ED 2/24/12, Melbourne Red Metallic, Black leather, 6 MT, ///M Sport, Premium Package, Premium Sound Package, Cold Weather Package, Nav, Comfort Access, LED Angel Eyes, BMWPedals pedal covers, stubby antenna, Luxon strut bar, CF engine cover, LCI side marker, powder coated calipers, Extra Enjoyment Package
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 11-12-2017, 03:19 PM
namelessman namelessman is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: northern california
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 7,442
Mein Auto: bimmer
This is an interesting video of running engine without oil. Since drain plug was dislodged, the oil pan and crankcase would become dry quickly(how quick is quick?).

So the diagnostics should be to look for metal particles in the oil, and wear grooves on connecting rod caps and such.


Last edited by namelessman; 11-12-2017 at 04:09 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 11-12-2017, 03:37 PM
NYMEX NYMEX is offline
Registered User
Location: Minnesota
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Posts: 2
Mein Auto: 428i xdrive
Quote:
Originally Posted by 767_Captain View Post
So how exactly did that go? Did the dealership perform the engine change? I would have a hard time trusting them with something like that when they screwed up something as simple as an oil change. I've had many oil changes performed, not just by dealerships but by $19.95 "Jiffy Lube" down on the corner and never had this happen and yet this BMW dealership couldn't get it right...



Right there with you. I have one briefed and ready to do precisely that.
The dealership swapped in a new engine (factory reman). I had to go back in a couple times for them to track down and fix a coolant leak but it all seems to be working well now after 3,500 miles. The dealer was excellent to work with but BMW NA had to authorize the initial warranty work.

I'd be concerned that the dealer takes a look at that engine and then says "everything's fine". There is no way that engine survived unscathed after running with no oil. I would personally want to inspect the crank, rod bearings, cylinders, turbo and valve train. Better yet, and after your inspection, get an independent mechanic working with your attorney to inspect their findings if they aren't going to replace it. A replacement with a factory reman (from the head to the oil sump) is the only way to ensue they don't skimp on the work that needs to be done.

This is not your problem. It is theirs. They need to keep you whole on the value and long term reliability of your vehicle.

Sent from my SM-G955U1 using Bimmerfest mobile app
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 11-12-2017, 04:15 PM
namelessman namelessman is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: northern california
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 7,442
Mein Auto: bimmer
Quote:
Originally Posted by 767_Captain View Post
I would have a hard time trusting them with something like that when they screwed up something as simple as an oil change.
If engine swap is authorized there is no reason not to do it at dealer. It is such a big-ticket item that the best techs and foremen will be on the job, so no worries.
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 11-12-2017, 04:54 PM
Rusty34's Avatar
Rusty34 Rusty34 is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Charlotte, NC
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 678
Mein Auto: 2016 550i M-Sport~2015 X1
Sounds like the lube tech spun the drain plug back in and before he could get it torqued got interrupted or sidetracked and it managed to leave the shop without being tightened. Possibility of engine damage would depend upon how long it was under power with no oil pressure. The first item to fail would be the rod bearings because they generate so much heat due to high pressures and high surface speeds; main bearings will be second to go. Residual oil on most other parts of the engine will help but not on the crankshaft bearings. At a bare minimum you should insist on pulling the pan and disassemble each rod to inspect the bearings and crankshaft journals.
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 11-12-2017, 04:54 PM
jjrandorin jjrandorin is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: San Diego
 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 6,893
Mein Auto: 435 Grand Coupe MSport
Quote:
Originally Posted by jparnes1 View Post
Nope. This is exactly why many of us do our own oil changes.



Sent from my iPhone using Bimmerfest mobile app

I dont see what that has to do with what I said. Sure, some people change their own oil, but for those that dont want to, or dont know how, thats why someone would take it to the dealer instead of jiffy lube or pep boys.
__________________
2016 435 Grand Coupe Estoril Blue MSport |Hex. EB Trim-Blk. Dakota | MSoort | Technology | Drivers Asst. | Drivers Assist+|Lighting |Track Pack W/ 442 Wheels |Heated Frnt Seats | Smartphone Integration | HK Stereo (His)

2016 X5 XDrive35d Space Grey |Blk Dakota W/ Fineline Oak | MSport | Lighting Pack | Premium Pack | Drivers Assist | Drivers Assist + | ACC W Stop N Go | 20" Wheels| Smartphone Integration | Multi Contour Seats | HK Stereo (hers)

BMW CCA #477341
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 11-12-2017, 05:30 PM
CALWATERBOY DUE's Avatar
CALWATERBOY DUE CALWATERBOY DUE is offline
Reregistered User
Location: Fog City, California
 
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 9,345
Mein Auto: 09 E93 335i somewhat mod
Quote:
Originally Posted by 767_Captain View Post
Your thoughts? Anyone?

Thought: Dealer carries liability insurance - you're good.

Thought: Happened to me! Not all oil leaked out after visit to Pennziol quick oil change - I just torqued w/new crush washer, added oil; drove another 100k mi. New owner cut the hard op off; made soft top convertible out of it.

Saw my ride at a movie theater parking lot....knew it by a thing on the upolstery I'd done....noted about 90k less miles on the OD than when I sold it....yep a model from the 80's.

Left my card in wiper asking how he rolled it back - had not realized he'd sold it after top install!

Har! Guess what goes around really does come around....
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 11-13-2017, 11:20 AM
lamb00j lamb00j is offline
Registered User
Location: Orlando, FL
 
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 32
Mein Auto: 2017 330i
Quote:
Originally Posted by 767_Captain View Post
Recently my dealer serviced my 435i to include an oil and filter change. Unfortunately it turned out that they did not properly torque the drain plug so as a result, about two weeks after the fact while I was on the road it backed completely out and in very short order all the oil departed. I was on the freeway and the "add engine oil" message appeared in the information center. Within a minute the message changed from amber to red and displayed "No Oil Pressure! Shut off engine immediately and contact Roadside Assistance!" As I was approaching an off-ramp I exited the freeway, pulled into a service station at the nearest corner, parked and shut it off. I was met by a rapidly expanding puddle of oil beneath the engine and oil splattered on the back and sides.

Roadside Assistance had a towing company there in 2Ĺ hours and got us to the local dealer. The next day they discovered the drain plug resting on the underbody pan and (surprise) virtually no oil left in the engine. They reinstalled the plug, changed the filter and saw no indication of metal contamination, serviced the oil and started the engine. It sounded fine but I told them I wasn't comfortable driving it away. By now I had been in touch with my local dealer, brought them up to speed and told them the same thing. They understood completely and made arrangements to have the vehicle transported back where they will get into the engine to ascertain the extent of damage.

Your thoughts? Anyone?
Curious, why did you decide to take the time to back into the parking spot if you were in such a dire need to stop the car? seems like taking a little too much time for this. But sorry to hear about the oil coming out, wife had a car that this happened to while we were dating, car was shot. Dealer replaced the engine, but this happened within mins of leaving the dealer, not weeks.
Reply With Quote
Reply

See More Related BMW Stories


Forum Navigation
Go Back   Bimmerfest - BMW Forums > BMW Model Discussions > 3 Series & 4 Series > F30 / F31 / F32 / F33 / F34 / F36 (2012 - current)
Today's Posts Search
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On



Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 03:30 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
© 2001- VerticalScope Inc. All rights reserved.