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F30 / F31 / F32 / F33 / F34 / F36 (2012 - current)
The sixth generation BMW 3 Series Sedan F30/F31/F34 and the first first generation 4 Series Coupe F32/F33/F36. Get the latest 3 and 4 series pricing from our ordering and pricing guide sticky thread.

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  #26  
Old 11-30-2017, 02:16 PM
namelessman namelessman is offline
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Originally Posted by smak91 View Post
From C&D article on the Giulia review - "Too often, today’s sports sedans ride heavy on overly firm suspensions and befuddle with seemingly dozens of configurable driving modes. Even worse, many of Alfa’s competitors tune their sportiest modes with brutality, turning powertrains twitchy, erasing any semblance of compliance from the ride, and adding needless heft to the steering that does nothing for driving enjoyment.
This is barely satisfying on a racetrack and dastardly on a commute."

Translation - gone are the days of actually feeling the road and along with it a somewhat weighted steering feel. Forget about having a suspension that allows you to feel like you're sticking to the road, but rather a smooth ride (oh and don't worry about that body roll, you wont even notice any bumps though )
If AR can do it, why can't BMW?
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  #27  
Old 11-30-2017, 02:18 PM
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Wow the all-new Accord beats out all BMW's.
Doesn't mean it's better than all BMW's. That's not the criteria.
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  #28  
Old 11-30-2017, 02:19 PM
BobinIl BobinIl is online now
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a sign of the times I guess. A BMW did make C&D's 10 best truck and SUV list. The X1 (Subcompact Luxury SUV).
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  #29  
Old 11-30-2017, 02:19 PM
Michael Schott Michael Schott is offline
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Originally Posted by namelessman View Post
If AR can do it, why can't BMW?
I wish they would but BMW will sell about 100,000 3 series in 2017 and Alfa a small fraction of that.
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  #30  
Old 11-30-2017, 02:35 PM
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I wish they would but BMW will sell about 100,000 3 series in 2017 and Alfa a small fraction of that.
With BMW's treasure troves of expertise and data points, it probably won't be too difficult to sell 100k 3 series that matches Giulia.

My take is that the battle cries of all things electric are grabbing all attention at the mothership, to the extent that core competency becomes background noise.
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  #31  
Old 11-30-2017, 02:36 PM
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4 cylinder wouldn't cut it in an M2, would it?
Depends on the engine. The E30 M3 had a 4-cylinder. Honda has been building spectacular 4-banger engines for decades, for the street and for many racing series--many able to embarrass contemporaneous BMWs. The configuration is hardly new to Porsche, either.

Then of course, there's the (4-cyl.) BMW M12 engine in the late-'80s Brabham BT56 Formula One cars:

...which developed anywhere from 1,100 - 1,400hp in qualifying trim (no one is really sure, because accurate measurement of such high output was not possible at the time). A four-banger doesn't have to be a boring, buzzy, commuter-appliance motivator unless it's designed to be so.

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If AR can do it, why can't BMW?
They undoubtedly can--except BMW has chosen to pursue buyers who have indicated, clearly, that their priorities lie elsewhere.
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  #32  
Old 11-30-2017, 03:17 PM
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The 10 gen accord is Honda’s best accord since the 7th generation. 1.5t motor is a pretty good motor. The accord with the 2.0t should be in the dealer lots in the coming weeks. I will write another test drive once I take it for a spin. Honda’s first attempt at a turbo 4 was not a good one. It was the 2.2t in the first gen RDX which was a POS. This 1.5t motor is much better than it first attempt. Too bad Honda can not build a reliable 1.6 turbo v6 F1 motor.


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  #33  
Old 11-30-2017, 03:34 PM
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The accord with the 2.0t should be in the dealer lots in the coming weeks. I will write another test drive once I take it for a spin.
Thank you sir, eazy! The Bimmerfest community is looking forward to your review.

Autonation Honda 385 in Memphis told me they expect their first allocation of 2.0 liter Accords to arrive December 11.
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  #34  
Old 11-30-2017, 03:51 PM
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Is Car and Driver, Motor Trend and others starting to read more like Consumer Reports? Maybe BMW missed the cut because of not enough cup holders. Most enthusiasts who actually read the "buff" books know, they're blatant revenue-generating scams masquerading as achievements worthy of gravitas. It's a dance that has deep roots in this business, and it all started decades ago at Motor Trend. Peter DeLorenzo recalls a time in his previous life in advertising:

"I distinctly remember having to muster my creative troops to "pitch" Motor Trend executives on the notion that the 1986 Dodge Lancer (yeah, I know, what a joke) should be considered for their COTY. We spent a full week mounting a creative presentation to show them how Dodge would advertise the award on TV and in print, with all the proper M/T "caliper" award logos properly positioned. This was combined with a media presentation delineating how much Dodge would be spending should the award be bestowed on the Lancer. Thankfully, the car didn't "win" but I will never forget what an absolute joke it was, a blatantly fraudulent pursuit to line Petersen Publishing's pockets.

Why did they get away with it? Because the auto companies were so eager for validation, no matter where it originated, that they were perfectly willing to hand over fistfuls of cash so that they could tout their Belchfire 8 as the COTY. The whole thing made you want to take a shower to wash the slime off. Since those halcyon days of blatant quid pro quo, the number of "awards" handed out by the media has exploded exponentially to an almost comical degree, except none of it is the least bit funny as obscure publications and websites come up with more and more dumb-ass awards full of sound and fury signifying absolutely nothing.

Fast forward to today, right this very minute. Now, let me make it very clear that the powers that be at Motor Trend have taken great pains over the years to distance the publication from its bad old days, touting its rigorous standards and due diligence in evaluating vehicles with ruthless objectivity. And I actually thought that maybe, just maybe, the dark days of Motor Trend's "bought-and-paid-for" past had been relegated to the dustbin of history.

Until now.

When the news came out that the Motor Trend editors named the Alfa Romeo Giulia the COTY I did a spit take of coffee all over my keyboard. This was followed by a flurry of emails from readers, saying, basically, WTF? And to say that all hell has broken loose since the announcement is an understatement.

Do you want to know why the overwhelming feeling out there in the autoverse is WTF? It's because after the auto journalists were flown to a bucolic location to test-drive the Giulia and wined and dined endlessly, the reports began filtering back that the Giulia was the greatest thing since, well, sliced bread.

But then, a funny thing happened. When the journalists actually got to drive the Giulia back on home soil virtually every road test of the car reported myriad problems, everything from annoying electrical malfunctions to actual pieces falling off the cars. True to form and as is their wont, too many journalists simply glossed over those piddling little details and praised the Italianate BMW to high heaven.

Yes, we have all seen this sort of syrupy bootlicking by auto journo-types countless times before, and everyone goes away feeling full and happy. The journalists because they get an endless supply of free cars to drive and the manufacturers who are just craving the kind of jump-start boost that a strong review might give them.

So here we are."

Last edited by Rusty34; 11-30-2017 at 04:13 PM.
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  #35  
Old 11-30-2017, 03:59 PM
Michael Schott Michael Schott is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by namelessman View Post
With BMW's treasure troves of expertise and data points, it probably won't be too difficult to sell 100k 3 series that matches Giulia.

My take is that the battle cries of all things electric are grabbing all attention at the mothership, to the extent that core competency becomes background noise.
The core competency as I see it is making German luxury cars that support the BMW brand. It’s interesting that you seem to think electric power is a distraction. We had a big thread recently saying BMW doesn’t spend enough time on this technology.
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  #36  
Old 11-30-2017, 04:43 PM
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openwheelracing openwheelracing is offline
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The F30 does not deserve a spot on the list.
I know, I've had two.
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  #37  
Old 11-30-2017, 05:11 PM
Mark K Mark K is offline
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A four cylinder Porsche made the list????

Sorry, but this list is total marketing hoopla. I wonder how much they were paid to stick this abomination on the list?
Preach, brother

All truth be told, minus the sound, 718 is way more capable machine than 981 will ever be. That said, who cares. Anybody buying those for 0-60 run or even a lap time on XYZ track missed the point by about Jupiter's radius order of magnitude.



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  #38  
Old 11-30-2017, 05:19 PM
namelessman namelessman is offline
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The core competency as I see it is making German luxury cars that support the BMW brand. It’s interesting that you seem to think electric power is a distraction. We had a big thread recently saying BMW doesn’t spend enough time on this technology.
BMW brass did believe they are behind on electric tech. While redirecting resources to all things electric, BMW brass could have maintained the old school attributes with relatively minimal efforts.

One misstep appears to be the 2+ billion euros on CFRP expertise, which has not materialized to significant tech edges for BMW in general for now.
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  #39  
Old 11-30-2017, 05:20 PM
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The F30 does not deserve a spot on the list.
I know, I've had two.
That's not the surprising part -- it's that the M240i and M2 which were previously highly praised have dropped off. I think this may be due to their experience with long term testing. Seems to have been replaced by the RS3.
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  #40  
Old 11-30-2017, 05:21 PM
Mark K Mark K is offline
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Originally Posted by Arthurrs View Post
BIG price difference between a 328ix and a Porsche 918, no? If I'm going to spend more than $70k on a car, you better believe it wont be a 4 cylinder!! That said, for the price I paid for my 4 cylinder, I'd say my expectations were realistic. BMW makes a very good 4 cylinder engine! This is not to say that Porsche can't do the same, but if I'm driving around in a car with Porsche name on it, I would want an appropriately sized engine to match. 4 cylinder wouldn't cut it in an M2, would it?
Oh, Gee, where to start here ...

First, 918 is not $70k, it is more like $1,870k - providsd you get one couple of years old at original MSRP. Dream on.

Second, 6 cylinders in itself will not make that much of a difference as you might think. If you want a new Porsche with old feel (no snails in engine bay), it is minimum $150k for another 6-8 months until 982 Spider and GT4 come out.

If you want a new REAL Porsche with flat 6, no turbos, air cooled, MT - that will be around $500k and up.

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  #41  
Old 11-30-2017, 05:29 PM
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captainaudio captainaudio is offline
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Oh, Gee, where to start here ...

First, 918 is not $70k, it is more like $1,870k - providsd you get one couple of years old at original MSRP. Dream on.

Second, 6 cylinders in itself will not make that much of a difference as you might think. If you want a new Porsche with old feel (no snails in engine bay), it is minimum $150k for another 6-8 months until 982 Spider and GT4 come out.

If you want a new REAL Porsche with flat 6, no turbos, air cooled, MT - that will be around $500k and up.

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6 is a larger number than 4.

I think that makes it obvious that any 6 cylinder car will be a better car than any 4 cylinder car.













6
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  #42  
Old 11-30-2017, 05:42 PM
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6 is a larger number than 4.

I think that makes it obvious that any 6 cylinder car will be a better car than any 4 cylinder car.













6




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  #43  
Old 11-30-2017, 05:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Rusty34 View Post
Is Car and Driver, Motor Trend and others starting to read more like Consumer Reports? Maybe BMW missed the cut because of not enough cup holders. Most enthusiasts who actually read the "buff" books know, they're blatant revenue-generating scams masquerading as achievements worthy of gravitas. It's a dance that has deep roots in this business, and it all started decades ago at Motor Trend. Peter DeLorenzo recalls a time in his previous life in advertising:

"I distinctly remember having to muster my creative troops to "pitch" Motor Trend executives on the notion that the 1986 Dodge Lancer (yeah, I know, what a joke) should be considered for their COTY. We spent a full week mounting a creative presentation to show them how Dodge would advertise the award on TV and in print, with all the proper M/T "caliper" award logos properly positioned. This was combined with a media presentation delineating how much Dodge would be spending should the award be bestowed on the Lancer. Thankfully, the car didn't "win" but I will never forget what an absolute joke it was, a blatantly fraudulent pursuit to line Petersen Publishing's pockets.

Why did they get away with it? Because the auto companies were so eager for validation, no matter where it originated, that they were perfectly willing to hand over fistfuls of cash so that they could tout their Belchfire 8 as the COTY. The whole thing made you want to take a shower to wash the slime off. Since those halcyon days of blatant quid pro quo, the number of "awards" handed out by the media has exploded exponentially to an almost comical degree, except none of it is the least bit funny as obscure publications and websites come up with more and more dumb-ass awards full of sound and fury signifying absolutely nothing.

Fast forward to today, right this very minute. Now, let me make it very clear that the powers that be at Motor Trend have taken great pains over the years to distance the publication from its bad old days, touting its rigorous standards and due diligence in evaluating vehicles with ruthless objectivity. And I actually thought that maybe, just maybe, the dark days of Motor Trend's "bought-and-paid-for" past had been relegated to the dustbin of history.

Until now.

When the news came out that the Motor Trend editors named the Alfa Romeo Giulia the COTY I did a spit take of coffee all over my keyboard. This was followed by a flurry of emails from readers, saying, basically, WTF? And to say that all hell has broken loose since the announcement is an understatement.

Do you want to know why the overwhelming feeling out there in the autoverse is WTF? It's because after the auto journalists were flown to a bucolic location to test-drive the Giulia and wined and dined endlessly, the reports began filtering back that the Giulia was the greatest thing since, well, sliced bread.

But then, a funny thing happened. When the journalists actually got to drive the Giulia back on home soil virtually every road test of the car reported myriad problems, everything from annoying electrical malfunctions to actual pieces falling off the cars. True to form and as is their wont, too many journalists simply glossed over those piddling little details and praised the Italianate BMW to high heaven.

Yes, we have all seen this sort of syrupy bootlicking by auto journo-types countless times before, and everyone goes away feeling full and happy. The journalists because they get an endless supply of free cars to drive and the manufacturers who are just craving the kind of jump-start boost that a strong review might give them.

So here we are."


What wrong with consumer reports? They will rip a car apart. One example is the Lexus IS. CR does not go on car company sponsored vacations.


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  #44  
Old 11-30-2017, 06:27 PM
Michael Schott Michael Schott is offline
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What wrong with consumer reports? They will rip a car apart. One example is the Lexus IS. CR does not go on car company sponsored vacations.


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Enthusiast mags are just that. They focus on the fun in driving. That's not CR's focus. And if being hosted by car companies for intros means they can be bought, BMW must do a terrible job at these events.
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  #45  
Old 11-30-2017, 06:39 PM
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eazy eazy is offline
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Originally Posted by Michael Schott View Post
Enthusiast mags are just that. They focus on the fun in driving. That's not CR's focus. And if being hosted by car companies for intros means they can be bought, BMW must do a terrible job at these events.


Fun to drive is a component in CR reviews. The 2 series, boxer, and corvette have extremely high road test scores says they are fun to drive. The difference is that test drive cars with options that people tend to buy not cars that the manufacturer gives to them that have all the bells and whistles that you rarely see on the dealer lots.


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  #46  
Old 11-30-2017, 06:40 PM
namelessman namelessman is offline
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Originally Posted by eazy View Post
What wrong with consumer reports? They will rip a car apart. One example is the Lexus IS. CR does not go on car company sponsored vacations.


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CR is a nice break from the auto-centric publications.

E.g. it rated 2001 E39 530i(my old bimmer) as best car tested ever at that time.

CR also rated Model S as best car tested ever, but then tore that down due to reliability issues.

CR deserves respect as they cannot be bought.
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  #47  
Old 11-30-2017, 07:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by namelessman View Post
CR is a nice break from the auto-centric publications.

E.g. it rated 2001 E39 530i(my old bimmer) as best car tested ever at that time.

CR also rated Model S as best car tested ever, but then tore that down due to reliability issues.

CR deserves respect as they cannot be bought.


And the E39 had terrible cup holders. I do admit out of all the bmw’s I have driven, the 6 cylinder e39’s had the best steering. I think it Uses the same steering rack as the e36 M3


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Last edited by eazy; 11-30-2017 at 07:03 PM.
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  #48  
Old 11-30-2017, 07:10 PM
Michael Schott Michael Schott is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by namelessman View Post
CR is a nice break from the auto-centric publications.

E.g. it rated 2001 E39 530i(my old bimmer) as best car tested ever at that time.

CR also rated Model S as best car tested ever, but then tore that down due to reliability issues.

CR deserves respect as they cannot be bought.
I respect how CR tests but I don't use them as a reference when car shopping. I'm not particularly focused on reliability.
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  #49  
Old 11-30-2017, 07:36 PM
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mr_clueless mr_clueless is offline
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So 3-series get outclassed by Giulia then, right?
Have you driven a Giulia? Try it just for kicks. It really shines in the steering/suspension department.
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Old 11-30-2017, 07:37 PM
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If AR can do it, why can't BMW?
The engineers that did it for BMW now work for AR.
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