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E60 (2004 - 2010)
BMW 5-Series (E60 chassis) was first seen in the Unites States in the fall of 2003 with a 2004 Model Year designation. The E60 is now available as a 528i, 528xi, 535i, 535xi, 550i and a 535xi sports wagon! -- View the E60 Wiki

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  #1  
Old 11-15-2005, 07:01 PM
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Thumbs down BMW 5 series (V8) amongst worst sedans as rated by Consumer Reports

Wow...did not know abou this...
http://autos.msn.com/advice/CRArt.as...LP%20Passenger

Of course includes 7 series and other German cars...also incudes my Cayenne in the SUV category
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  #2  
Old 11-15-2005, 07:05 PM
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chuck92103 chuck92103 is offline
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Yep 5 and 7 series are one of the top 15 worst according to forbes a few months ago.

Consumer report is basically saying the same thing.

ON the list is also, Porsche Cayenne, every model of merecedes (or so it seems), jaguar, Land Rover, and a few others.

It is all relative too. All of these cars are great. The quality level in all cars has come up quite a bit in the last 20 years. Somebody has to be the worst, but I would venture to say, the race is very close.

I would like to see the actual score numbers rather than general characterizations.

Last edited by chuck92103; 11-15-2005 at 07:08 PM.
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  #3  
Old 11-15-2005, 07:05 PM
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I wonder why just the V8? Is it just the 4.5L that is just really unreliable?
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  #4  
Old 11-15-2005, 07:08 PM
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not sure...maybe they tested the 04 545...1st year production..had bugs just like my Cayenne....but after all is fixed things are just fine...
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  #5  
Old 11-15-2005, 07:09 PM
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The additional options included in the V8 add to the things that can go wrong.
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  #6  
Old 11-15-2005, 07:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jaro
not sure...maybe they tested the 04 545...1st year production..had bugs just like my Cayenne....but after all is fixed things are just fine...
That's the problem, all is not fixed, even on the 06's
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  #7  
Old 11-15-2005, 07:15 PM
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you mean on the 5 series right?
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  #8  
Old 11-15-2005, 07:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jaro
you mean on the 5 series right?
Yep, the 5
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  #9  
Old 11-15-2005, 07:17 PM
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that sucks...and here I'm thinking of getting out of the Cayenne and ordering a 550i ED....will hold off for a bit more..
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  #10  
Old 11-15-2005, 07:19 PM
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Correct, most of the tests were from customers with 04 or early 05 models. BMW did a model change and worked out most of the issues.

Manufactuers typically get hammered the first model year on customer surveys except for the Japanese. They tend to change sheet metal but leave everything else alone or so it seems.

Cars that fair better tend not to push the envelope in terms of style or performance.

Note toyota and honda (lexus and acura) scored higher. THEY SHOULD. They leverage the same cars across multiple platforms and sell a lot more cars to the general masses so the bugs are worked out sooner.

BMW does not share platforms with anyone. So it will take longer to work out the bugs.

I am not even sure you can compare a honda accord customer satisfaction survey to a BMW 5 series. The survey should be broken down by car class/price range to be realistic.

Plus I think someone buying a car like a 7 series is going to be more picky than someone buying a civic. And of course, since the 7 series has boatloads more technology there will be more issues.

I am on my 5th bimmer and yes I have had issues, but I had issues with all my cars regardless of brand. Have the bimmer's been more problematic, I suppose yes, but the problems are far outweighed by the driving experience and safety systems.
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  #11  
Old 11-15-2005, 07:22 PM
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you made some good points there...
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  #12  
Old 11-15-2005, 07:35 PM
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Thanks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jaro
you made some good points there...
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  #13  
Old 11-15-2005, 07:38 PM
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The stroller-pushing, tree-hugging, politically-correct, fun-hating, driving-is-a-chore, speed-kills, stop-smiling vegans at Consumer Reports are also embracing the Prius as the second coming of the automobile. And right now the Prius is turning out to be a reilability disaster for Toyota, at a time when gas prices are at their peaks! Look at the adulation, right next to a picture of the car that looks like a partially dissolved suppository:
Quote:
Originally Posted by ConsumerReports
The Prius is one of three Toyotas to be ranked in the most reliable small cars segment.
Allow Consumer Reports to propagandize the unwashed in the vast midwest to keep the demand for Bimmers (and prices) down.

Last edited by Malibubimmer; 11-15-2005 at 07:43 PM.
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  #14  
Old 11-15-2005, 11:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chuck92103
Correct, most of the tests were from customers with 04 or early 05 models. BMW did a model change and worked out most of the issues.

Manufactuers typically get hammered the first model year on customer surveys except for the Japanese. They tend to change sheet metal but leave everything else alone or so it seems.

Cars that fair better tend not to push the envelope in terms of style or performance.

Note toyota and honda (lexus and acura) scored higher. THEY SHOULD. They leverage the same cars across multiple platforms and sell a lot more cars to the general masses so the bugs are worked out sooner.

BMW does not share platforms with anyone. So it will take longer to work out the bugs.

I am not even sure you can compare a honda accord customer satisfaction survey to a BMW 5 series. The survey should be broken down by car class/price range to be realistic.

Plus I think someone buying a car like a 7 series is going to be more picky than someone buying a civic. And of course, since the 7 series has boatloads more technology there will be more issues.

I am on my 5th bimmer and yes I have had issues, but I had issues with all my cars regardless of brand. Have the bimmer's been more problematic, I suppose yes, but the problems are far outweighed by the driving experience and safety systems.

valid points indeed

on a related note, a famliy friend of ours has an '04 545i and he hasn't had any issues with it whatsoever. BMW's have been in my family since I was a kid and I know they have issues, but really, I don't ever remember any of them being THAT drastic.

Besides, these cars actually have soul, which I personally see as something most all Japanese cars lack. I'll take a car with personality over another bland "luxury" sedan anyday, thanks....


just my $.02
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  #15  
Old 11-16-2005, 12:53 AM
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I don't know why Consumer Reports continues to compare Cessnas to F16's

I stopped getting the mag years ago. Altough their toaster oven comparison seems to be worthwhile.
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  #16  
Old 11-16-2005, 03:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Malibubimmer
The stroller-pushing, tree-hugging, politically-correct, fun-hating, driving-is-a-chore, speed-kills, stop-smiling vegans at Consumer Reports are also embracing the Prius as the second coming of the automobile. And right now the Prius is turning out to be a reilability disaster for Toyota, at a time when gas prices are at their peaks! Look at the adulation, right next to a picture of the car that looks like a partially dissolved suppository:

Allow Consumer Reports to propagandize the unwashed in the vast midwest to keep the demand for Bimmers (and prices) down.

My sentiments, EXACTLY!!
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  #17  
Old 11-16-2005, 05:37 AM
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In the December 2005 issue of CR, the 5 series 6 cylinder vehicles have been upgraded to "average or better" in reliability.
This implies that the 545 is still below average in reliability.
It could also be that they don't have enough of a representative sampling of 545 owners to make a prediction this time around.
I somehow don't think 545 owners make up a large part of CR's subscription base.
They probably appeal more to the Honda/Toyota crowd.
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Last edited by hpowders; 11-16-2005 at 05:42 AM.
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  #18  
Old 11-16-2005, 05:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Malibubimmer
The stroller-pushing, tree-hugging, politically-correct, fun-hating, driving-is-a-chore, speed-kills, stop-smiling vegans at Consumer Reports are also embracing the Prius as the second coming of the automobile. And right now the Prius is turning out to be a reilability disaster for Toyota, at a time when gas prices are at their peaks! Look at the adulation, right next to a picture of the car that looks like a partially dissolved suppository:

Allow Consumer Reports to propagandize the unwashed in the vast midwest to keep the demand for Bimmers (and prices) down.

I simply can't wait for the warranty to end on all the Priuses in the hands of the hole-in-the-ozone, self-hating American, rainforest is disappearing, automobile is evil tool of BIG OIL crowd, to start needing horrific amounts of mega bucks parts and service on their ****-box tuna cans. They'll have one more thing to wring their hands over.
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  #19  
Old 11-16-2005, 05:56 AM
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  #20  
Old 11-16-2005, 06:32 AM
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did anyone check where 5 series stands with JD Power?
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  #21  
Old 11-16-2005, 07:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chuck92103
Correct, most of the tests were from customers with 04 or early 05 models. BMW did a model change and worked out most of the issues.

Manufactuers typically get hammered the first model year on customer surveys except for the Japanese. They tend to change sheet metal but leave everything else alone or so it seems.

Cars that fair better tend not to push the envelope in terms of style or performance.

Note toyota and honda (lexus and acura) scored higher. THEY SHOULD. They leverage the same cars across multiple platforms and sell a lot more cars to the general masses so the bugs are worked out sooner.

BMW does not share platforms with anyone. So it will take longer to work out the bugs.

I am not even sure you can compare a honda accord customer satisfaction survey to a BMW 5 series. The survey should be broken down by car class/price range to be realistic.

Plus I think someone buying a car like a 7 series is going to be more picky than someone buying a civic. And of course, since the 7 series has boatloads more technology there will be more issues.

I am on my 5th bimmer and yes I have had issues, but I had issues with all my cars regardless of brand. Have the bimmer's been more problematic, I suppose yes, but the problems are far outweighed by the driving experience and safety systems.
Some good points but BMW has 7 years between new models. Instead of focusing on facelifts, how about focusing on tech stuff and getting the product right on the next models. It really is a joke that we drop 40K+ on a car and end up as the guinea pigs for the first few years.

I'm on my 3rd one and love the drive, but this is the first time looking ahead that I cant say for sure that BMW is my next car.
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  #22  
Old 11-16-2005, 07:35 AM
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WOw- a lot of hatred of Consumer Reports here. Like it or not, German cars have more problems-- dont' shoot the messenger. We can make all the excuses in the world- but there really is none. Its not like a BMW is much more technologically advanced than a Lexus (in some ways, less so). Yeah, BMWs drive better and that's why we put up w/ it. But, BMW should really try harder to improve. That being said, atleat they're better than Mercedes, Audi and Land Rover.

And, dont' forget Consumer Reports rated the 2001 530i as the "best car ever tested". So, its not like they have a hatred of BMws. In fact, we've had a few people who work at CR on the board over the years-- adn guess what-- a fwe of them drive BMWs!
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  #23  
Old 11-16-2005, 07:36 AM
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You bring up a good point.

However, do you think BMW suffers a bit in quality in order to keep ahead with cutting edge technology?

I am not sure they can keep up the pace and maintain Lexus level quality. I do think it could be done, just costs more money and time to achieve that level.

If they are selling everything than can build I suppose they don't have the incentive to do so. In a way, we created this issue because we are willing to accept lower quality rather than passing and buying a Lexus or Acura.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HGilmore
Some good points but BMW has 7 years between new models. Instead of focusing on facelifts, how about focusing on tech stuff and getting the product right on the next models. It really is a joke that we drop 40K+ on a car and end up as the guinea pigs for the first few years.

I'm on my 3rd one and love the drive, but this is the first time looking ahead that I cant say for sure that BMW is my next car.
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  #24  
Old 11-16-2005, 07:45 AM
bmw325 bmw325 is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chuck92103
You bring up a good point.

However, do you think BMW suffers a bit in quality in order to keep ahead with cutting edge technology?

I am not sure they can keep up the pace and maintain Lexus level quality. I do think it could be done, just costs more money and time to achieve that level.

If they are selling everything than can build I suppose they don't have the incentive to do so. In a way, we created this issue because we are willing to accept lower quality rather than passing and buying a Lexus or Acura.
We always talk about BMW's cutting edge technology. It seems that BMw actually does a good job (from a reliability standpoint) on their so called "cutting edge" stuff like active steering, roll stabilization, valvetronic. Where they fall apart is on the in-car electronic stuff (iDrive). Or, they have stupid issues like suspenion parts failing, cooling systems, door seals,etc. Leuxs and others have as good or bettre nav/computer systems, and there's no reason why BMW cant' do a better job on the more mundane parts.
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  #25  
Old 11-16-2005, 08:06 AM
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all good points here again...I think BMW continues to take advantage of their brand and the appeal associated with it. They are cutting costs in order to stay competetive and we the consumers put up with the issues becasue we want to drive BMW's. Labor costs are high in Germany and so where they cut corners is quality. If you look at today's BMW's and compare then even with the 01-04 models you can tell that the 05's and 06's are just of lower quality. That applies to the finish of the interior, exterior, trim etc. Company like BMW should be able to do better testing before they release their cars. Like Honda and Toyota BMW is mass produced. BMW is no longer a car like Porsche still seems to be where the cars are produced in lower quantities and QA and testing is important. ike it or not BMW is no longer the luxury and butique brand it once was. Anyone can afford to dive a BMW.
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