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X5 E70 (2007 - 2013)
E70 BMW X5 produced between 2007 and 2013. Discuss the E70 X5 with other BMW owners here.

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  #1  
Old 11-29-2005, 02:24 PM
teutonictrio teutonictrio is offline
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Test drive - Cayenne Turbo and X5 4.8iS - LONG

Well, I decided to take the two for a test drive today, as close to back to back as possible (20 minutes apart). I drove the X5 4.4i last night and was pretty impressed with the vehicle, for an SUV, but knew the 4.8 had to be something else, so...

First the 4.8iS - drove a new one, not broken in, so I'll give some leeway with that. First of all, it is indistinguishable from the 4.4i other than a slightly different set of bumpers and dual exhaust, and lower. Inside and outside, you paid the same for not much other than a .4 increase in the side-mounted badges. The seats are no longer alcantara, which is too bad, as that grips so much better. Anyway, the sound from the exhaust is the first thing I noticed - it is fantastic. Burble like crazy, and really sounds like a great V8.

It feels very solid, but not heavy - active steering helps that tremendously. The thick steering wheel is phenomenal, and boo to Porsche for such thin wheels (like my 987S). Acceleration is really nice, but I didn't notice much difference between it and the 4.4i - it's there, just not night and day. Handling was quite exceptional - tight, very little body roll - VERY little. The sport suspension is better than the sport on 4.4i, but rides similarly over bumps. Essentially a better controlled, more sporty and secure suspension with the same road feel - sans bone-shattering feedback.

The brakes on this thing RULE! Amazing.

I went back in a 4.4i and took it around to be sure I noticed the differences - biggest being exhaust note and brakes, with nods to handling and acceleration.

Then to the Cayenne Turbo - a CPO 2004 model. First thing I wondered about is the slippery (possibly overtreated with chemicals) leather of the black interior - seemed cheesy to me. Do other leathers age better than the black? Anyway, first off the ride seems lower, and the vision not as open as the X5, which has tall windows with deep bottoms.

Acceleration is night and day - the 4.8iS is not EVEN CLOSE! Nowhere near the same range as this monster - it was truly amazing.

The ride was definitely 'heavier' - felt more solid and heavy than the X5, yet it still handled well - you just felt the extra weight, which is too bad. Brakes are great, but not as good as the 4.8iS, as they are the same that stop my 987S, at half the weight. Doing a 'braking test' I discovered that ABS is quick to turn on, when you have to stop that many tons.

PASM gives it a much better ride than the 4.8iS in my opinion - even in sport mode. Comfort is quite nice overall.

I could see getting 8mpg average in this thing, hammering on the gas all the time.

(Please note I am NOT talking buying new, but CPO in both cases)

Break it down...

4.8iS - advantages: free service for 4 years, lighter weight, better mpg, better sounding exhaust, toys (bluetooth and ipod compatibility), more secure feeling handling, brakes, price (57k for a CPO 2005 model).

CTT - advantages: TURBO acceleration, nicer interior (except for that nasty shiny leather on the seats), some off-road capability, comfort.

While my reaction is that I like the Cayenne better because of that unreal acceleration, it does seem that being the pricier option (if I get 2004 CPO I have to pay still 65k or so and get CD-ROM navigation, etc.) it does not have as many advantages as the 4.8iS when I spell it out like that. My initial thought afterwards was leaning toward the CTT because the acceleration really is memorable, but when I write it out, it seems the 4.8iS might have more to offer, even though it does not have the blinding acceleration and smooth ride.

Essentially, after all that, I'm STILL not sure!
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  #2  
Old 11-29-2005, 02:31 PM
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AB AB is offline
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Great write-up, thanks. Helps me finally shelve those lingering thoughts on getting the 4.4 vs the 4.8.
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  #3  
Old 11-29-2005, 02:42 PM
teutonictrio teutonictrio is offline
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Don't get me wrong, there is a difference between the 4.8iS and the 4.4i, but acceleration is perhaps not as much of a change as one might expect. Handling and steering and brakes truly are worlds apart. I imagine if the 4.8iS was broken in a bit more (like the 4.4i I drove afterward), it would show better acceleration.
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  #4  
Old 11-29-2005, 02:49 PM
TurnAround TurnAround is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by teutonictrio
Then to the Cayenne Turbo - a CPO 2004 model. First thing I wondered about is the slippery (possibly overtreated with chemicals) leather of the black interior - seemed cheesy to me. Do other leathers age better than the black?

CTT - advantages: nicer interior (except for that nasty shiny leather on the seats)
You're saying the P-car was used? Chances are, someone screwed the leather up by putting the wrong product on it. No way to undo this. What's done is done. Leather care is a one way door.

If they didn't; In general Porsche uses a lower quality leather finish than BMW. It's too bad, because they do use full grain leathers. They're just not finished very nicely. Stiff. "Sheeny". I've never seen one I like. In Porsche's defense, it would be easy to find and line up people that would argue the exact opposite as what I just said. But, for what it's worth.. go to a Porsche show room and handle the leather samples they'll have hanging there. Now go sit in a BMW 3 series, X5, or 5er or 7, or 6. And also, check out the Nappa leather in the M's. BMW leather....


Cayenne.. nicer interior?? You gotta be kidding me?

Just teasing man. Style is one of those things. Individuality plays the dominant roll. IMHO, the X5 has the nicest interior .. by a long shot. It's one of the coolest looking interiors of any car out there, new or older.
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  #5  
Old 11-29-2005, 02:57 PM
alpinewhite325i alpinewhite325i is offline
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Your comments about BMW's leather surprises me. BMW's Dakota and Montanna leather has never impressed me. In all honesty, I think it's a joke for what you pay.

The Nappa leather is a whole different story...very nice.
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  #6  
Old 11-29-2005, 08:08 PM
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Emission Emission is offline
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I've driven the 3.0i, 4.4i, and 4.8i.

The jump between 3.0i and 4.4i is huge.

The jump from 4.4i to 4.8i is nearly unnoticable.

I'd never buy the 4.8i, though I feel the 4.4i is worth every penny over the 3.0i if you can swing it.

Cayenne TT vs. 4.8i.... I'd lean towards the Cayenne as some sucker will always buy it off you for premium dollar, and you can kick everyone's tail in the beast!
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  #7  
Old 11-30-2005, 09:44 AM
Dennis215 Dennis215 is offline
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When My X was in the shop recently, they gave me a loaner 3.0. VERY much slower acceleration! Often I would put my foot flat down and go for a coffee, I guess it could have been the car?

Happy to hear about the .4 difference though, there really doesnt seem that many CPO about which used to make me sad.

Just a note to Tommy... Santa is bringing me up to S1 for Christmas! I sooo excited!
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  #8  
Old 11-30-2005, 11:03 AM
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Emission Emission is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dennis215
When My X was in the shop recently, they gave me a loaner 3.0. VERY much slower acceleration! Often I would put my foot flat down and go for a coffee, I guess it could have been the car?
Yeah, but the $10,000 in 3.0i owners pockets makes them feel much better about it.

I had the 3.0i, and never regretted it.
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  #9  
Old 12-01-2005, 08:53 AM
x54.4blue x54.4blue is offline
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Porsche off road at a price.

The Porsche is way to heavy.

It tried to be a off rode truck and is to heavy. Who wants to go off roading with a $60,000 new truck?


The BMW X5 is a much better design. I think the 4.4 is the sweet spot for value and drive.

Wait untill next year and get a improved BMW X5.
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  #10  
Old 12-01-2005, 10:47 PM
rss4.8is rss4.8is is offline
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I just drove both CTT and 4.8is as well...Bought the new 4.8is for same reasons as noted above....

X5 4.8 felt much better on a daily basis and around town, lighter on its feet, better steering and better brakes....Better iterior fit and finish with way more room in backseat...I had my 2 friends ride in back of both test drives....

CTT is awesomely fast but did not feel that much better especially for 25k more...comparing new...

4.4 is the best deal forsure but coming out of an 05 997 Carerra...i needed a little fun factor so felt the extra $ was worth it over the 4.4...

I think Porsche has had way more issues with CTT than the X5...
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  #11  
Old 12-02-2005, 12:39 PM
Steved Steved is offline
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It sounds like you drove a 'very' tight 4.8is. I have driven 8 of them and owned two, and my second 4.8is is much quicker than my first one. I also ran a 4.8is given to me by BMW for a few months and that was the quickest I've ever driven (even quicker than my current one). The 4.8is really responds to a very deliberate running in period, using 75% of the acceleration at full throttle as frequently as possible during the first few hundred miles. If they're pussied around, they just don't seem to lug like a well run-in example.

To say the 4.8is doesn't feel noticeably quicker than the 4.4i is not typical. All of my 4.8is have been noticeably quicker than the 4.6is I used to own, which was likewise quicker than the 4.4i I ran before that.

I've driven the Cayenne TT many times, often back to back with the 4.8is and I've met Cayenne TT's out on the road and the 4.8is is quicker off the line than the Cayenne and only gets passed once up to 100mph, then they seem to accelerate pretty evenly up beyond this point. That's another area where the 4.8is is significantly quicker than my 4.6is, accelerating beyond 100mph (on german autobahns of course). Yes, the Cayenne is quicker but there was not enough of an advantage (and in some cases there is a disadvantage) to convince me to buy one.
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Old 12-03-2005, 01:14 AM
z356 z356 is offline
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Steved, I believe you have told us your 4.4 was a pre-2004 model, as was your 3.0. I have heard from many others on this board and X5 World that post-2004 X5 4.4 are faster, and closer to the 4.6 and 4.8. Now, I don't doubt for a minute that the 4.8 is faster than the current 4.4, but the difference has narrowed according to many that have driven both current models back to back. I have just ordered a 2006 4.4 Sport with Adjustable Ride Height, (your nemesis in your first 4.8) rather than a 4.8, simply because I couldn't justify the compromised stiffer ride with the standard 20 inch wheels. I needed to insure that my wife would not object, like she did to the harsh ride of my recent 2003 Audi RS6. I am pretty familiar with the 4.4 engine since it is basically the unit in my current 2004 745 and its pretty strong. I special ordered my X5 Sport with ARH because I think that is the key to "special ride" of the 4.8, and it should be even better with the optional 19 inch style 132s w/performance tires for the summer and 18" wheels w/snow & ice tires in the winter. Price wise, the 4.8 is rarer and thus less likely to be discounted as of this early date in the MY2006 model year. I am getting the 4.4 at $2K over invoice. So the price difference would have been over $10,000 for a similarly optioned 4.8. So, in addition to the stiffer ride, I had a hard time justifying the price difference between the two, given the smaller performance differences. Having said all of this, I chose the 4.4 X5 over the Cayenne S or Cayenne Turbo. I drove the Cayenne Turbo minutes before I test drove the X5 4.4 Sport, and like the X5 better. I am a Zuffenhausen enthusiast dating back to my first Porsche in 1974 and I am a dedicated fan of that marque (like you) to this day. But the Cayenne was a disappointment. First, the skinny steering wheel, most with a plastic-like wood veneer rim. Ugh! It felt heavier (because it is) and with a taller center of gravity. Although a Panoramic roof is a Cayenne option, I have never seen one with it. After driving the X5 with its incredible Pano roof, nothing else would be acceptable. Finally, the engineers at BMW have mastered "Sport" in their suspension for the true enthusiast. So when they offer a "Sport" suspension in their products, it is truly a unique arrangement that delivers on its promise, but without the stiffer characteristics that often make "sport suspension" offerings from Porsche or Audi unacceptable for real world driving conditions in our country. Thus it is no accident that I have been gravitating increasingly towards recent offerings from BMW, from a 745 Sport, a Z8 and a Mini Cooper S Convertible. I hope the engineers at BMW keep up their good work!

Last edited by z356; 12-03-2005 at 01:29 AM.
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  #13  
Old 12-03-2005, 03:51 AM
Steved Steved is offline
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I guess the main point of my post was to say that I'd driven lots of 4.8is (many of them provided from BMW's own fleet) and found quite a performance disparity between them. Reading between the lines I can fully understand why someone would drive a 4.4i back to back with a 4.8is and not feel the difference was night and day, I've driven ones that felt that way too. But of the really quick 3 or 4 that i drove, the performance was truly outstanding for a vehicle of its size. These were 4.8is that were as quick as a Mitsubishi EVO 8 (320bhp in a 1400kg body), notably quicker than my brother's 300bhp tuned Audi S3 and able to keep pace with a Ferrari 355GTS (that was trying to shake us off on a clear open French autoroute at the time). My guess is that a 4.8is with all of it's ponies in place will turn a 0-100mph time in around 13 seconds, whereas a 4.4i will be nearer 16-17 seconds. Not significant in day to day driving, but it just enables the 4.8is to feel the more thrilling to drive. A good friend of mine though has a 2005 4.4i Sport and he views it as the best car he's ever owned.

I've also driven the 4.8is back to back several times with the 645Ci and found both cars to be broadly similar in performance, but the 4.8is feels like it has noticeably more torque than the 645Ci, with the Coupe only regaining ground once the speed has increased and the X5's aerodynamics taken it's toll. If the power advantage of 4.8is over 645Ci is noticeable, then logically it should also show if comparing 4.4i and 4.8i X5s (namely stronger low to mid range torque surge).

Having said that, when I costed a 4.4i Sport to the same spec as my first 4.8is, the 4.8is was only another £6k more (4.4i Sport was £54k compared to £60k for the 4.8is), and that's not taking into account things like the bodykit, unique instruments, exhaust note, 20" wheels etc. I reckon that in reality there's probably only a £2-3k premium charged for the bigger engine.

Whereas I was dissapointed in the 4.6is and didn't feel it offered a worthwhile advantage over the 2005 4.4i Sport, I have none of those doubts with the 4.8is, not because the 4.4i is lacking in any way but because 'finally' BMW polished up their spanners and actually made the 4.8is worth the premium. But the 4.8is is a little more firm and hard-edged than the 4.4i. I've run the 4.8is with smaller 18" wheels and to be honest, it doesn't feel 'that much' softer.

I suspect that just as there are some quick and some average performing 4.8is, there are probably a similar disparity in 4.4i X5s depending on how they are run-in, but even so, I'm pretty sure the difference between the best of each breed should be noticeable enough for someone to make a reasoned buying decision.
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Old 12-03-2005, 09:59 AM
z356 z356 is offline
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Thanks for the reply. Just to clarify price differences in the US between the 4.8 and the 4.4 Sport. I have ordered my 04 to full 4.8 specs, meaning with Servotronic and ARH, but with the 4.4 engine and 19 inch optional style 132 wheels, nav, heated wheel, etc. But it has Comfort seats, which is a No Charge option in the 4.8, but a hefty $1,200 on the 4.4. The full MSRP on my loaded 4.4 Sport is $65,745 and the invoice is $60,070, including destination charge. A 4.8 with navigation, heated wheel and comfort seats (n/c) would add up to a MSRP of $73,745 and an invoice of $67,350. So the difference apples to apples on an equivalent optioned SAV is $8,000 MSRP and around $7,280 in invoice. My deal is $2K over invoice for the 4.4. But that deal is not available to me on the rarer 4.8. Assuming a Edmunds TMV "target" price of around $72K for that spec of a 4.8, the price difference to me is about $10K over my $62k deal (invoice + $2k) on the loaded 4.4. In addition, the 4.8 doesn't give me a full color choice. I have selected a Kalahari exterior with a Truffle brown interior, which in my opinion is a very striking color combination. I am suffering a somber grey interior in my otherwise perfect 745 Sport because at the time (2004) BMW wouldn't allow me to order a lighter "natural brown" interior. To many of us, these color restrictions are a major negative in the way BMW specs its "sport" choices. By the way, I had the "enhanced sport exhaust" option on my RS6 and it could get a little tiring on long 5 hour drives, typical of our commute between Carmel and Reno-Tahoe. A button (a like Porsche 911) to turn it on and/or mute would be appreciated. Having said all of that, if the wife would have been more "sport suspension" oriented, I would have ordered a 4.8. But in a world full of terrible compromises that we all have to make, this 4.4 Sport doesn't rate very high on that list. Finally, your experiences with your first 4.8 point out that your full enjoyment could be easily spoiled by a less-than-perfect example. It could perhaps happen with the 4.4 but the chances are probably greater with the specialized nature of the more edged 4.8. What do you think?

Last edited by z356; 12-03-2005 at 10:16 AM.
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Old 12-03-2005, 03:36 PM
x54.4blue x54.4blue is offline
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$2000 over Dealrs Cost

Do you have a special relationship or is the $2,000 a normal street deal?

Best I could do in July was Full Retail less $2,000.

I am in the market for a second X5 4.4 or a X3.

Which way would you go?
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Old 12-03-2005, 05:51 PM
z356 z356 is offline
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No special relationship since this is first BMW I will buy from my local dealer, but I am a pretty good negotiator. But I don't think that $2000 over invoice is that difficult to do here in California. This will be my first X vehicle so I don't yet have the experience to advice anyone on an X3. But my other dealer friend in Southern California told me (he has sold me an M3, the Z8 and the 745 Sport) that, knowing my taste in cars, he knows that I would not be happy or satisfied with the X3, including the 3.0 (well, that is all they sell now). So I didn't even considered it. I test drove a 3.0 X3 Sport about five months ago for a friend and found the engine a bit gutless (and the ride pretty stiff). But that was the same feeling I had about the BMW 5 series AWD wagon I test drove a few weeks ago, and that came with the new BMW six cylinder engine (not yet on X5 or X3). It left me totally unimpressed! So I would not do a six cylinder X vehicle myself, given the MPG abilities of the current 4.4 V8 engine. What an efficient engine this thing is! I have it on my 745 and can vouch for it. Steved mentioned in an earlier post that the V8 Porsche engines are such gas guzzlers that, on that basis alone, it should give pause to any prospective buyer. The Turbo's is particularly outrageous and over-the-top regarding gas consumption!!! You can't go wrong with the 4.4 X5, unless the the lower price considerations are paramount.
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Old 12-03-2005, 08:52 PM
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LeMansX5 LeMansX5 is offline
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z356, When I was in market to replace my 4.4 with a new one I loaded it up and then looked at 4.8is.The difference was $6k. Once I heard the exhaust growl of 4.8 I decided on 4.8. I got $1200 off the MSRP last year around this time. Also I don't have to worry about adding a 4.8 bumper kit and 4.8 exhaust tips as most are doing on X5world and I can still sell it in future as a 4.8 not as a 4.4 or 3.0 with 4.8 kit. Also the suspension is better. You should be able to get alteast $2000 off these days. My dealer told me last week that if I need another 4.8 he will do better than $2000.
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Old 12-04-2005, 08:17 AM
rss4.8is rss4.8is is offline
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I just got 5k off msrp on mine!!!!
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Old 12-04-2005, 09:54 AM
z356 z356 is offline
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rss4.8. Did you get that off on a left-over '05 or a new '06 4.8? Either way, congratulations.
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Old 12-06-2005, 02:56 PM
Steved Steved is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by z356
. Finally, your experiences with your first 4.8 point out that your full enjoyment could be easily spoiled by a less-than-perfect example. It could perhaps happen with the 4.4 but the chances are probably greater with the specialized nature of the more edged 4.8. What do you think?
You could well be right. I drove many 4.8is until I found one that worked as I believe they should. The difference is between an awesome car and one that's just so-so. The 4.8is is a fab car but I know I would be just as happy with a 4.4i Sport (provided I hadn't experienced how good the 4.8i could be) . Genie out of a bottle and all that!
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Old 12-06-2005, 06:59 PM
z356 z356 is offline
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Thankfully my dealer had just traded a new '06 4.8 for two other BMWs from another dealer. So I never got to test ride the 4.8. Maybe I could have been tempted. But they had a used 4.6 which I took for a spin. My principal issue was not dissappointing my wife, who has been so patient with me and my car hobby. So after she objected to the Audi RS6, I just couldn't afford to take a chance with the stiffer suspension and 20 inch wheels of the 4.8. So on my special order X5, I have tried to duplicate some of the best of the 4.8 on the 4.4 (Sport Suspension and ARH) and pray that this formula works for us. We will drive half the time on the 18 inch winter wheels (replicas 87s) with Pirelli 255/55/18s Snow & Ice. That will also lessen the harshness on the road. This will be our first SUV- type vehicle. So we will see how we both like its ride quality (we know we will like the higher ride height and visibility) vs our other road car, the 745i Sport. Finally, we are at the last year of the e53 body style. Within one or two years they will introduce the new Alpha Dog X vehicle, with a 5.0 engine and all the toys not currently available on the X5. I am looking forward to Heads Up Display, Adaptive Cruise Control, Adaptive High Beam, Night Vision Infra-Red, etc. Air-conditioned seats would also be welcomed. So we will wait out the next two years while this sorts itself out and the bugs are out of the new systems. My last year of production RS6 was totally bug-free. I am hoping that this X5, after six years of X production, will be equally bullet-proof. And I will be saving $10,000 by ordering the 4.4 rather than the 4.8. Not a small consideration.

Last edited by z356; 12-06-2005 at 08:59 PM.
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Old 12-06-2005, 09:40 PM
rss4.8is rss4.8is is offline
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5k off of left over 05.....
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Old 12-07-2005, 12:14 PM
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That is a nice discount ($5,000), even for a left-over '05. I doubt I could have done anywhere near that on an '06. Perhaps $2k. That is what I factored into my calculations vs the 4.4. Yesterday I went back to the Roadfly Cayenne forum and did a search there on the X5 vs Cayenne. The misinformation spread about the X5 was hilarious. Most are comparing early bug-proned editions of the X5 vs later Cayennes. Our own SteveD did an outstanding job in applying some reason to the arguments, but perhaps to no avail. As a long time Porsche fan, I guess it is nice that there are now dedicated Cayenne devotees that will not let facts get in the way of exulting the virtues of their marque over the X5. I came into this "battle" with an open mind. If the Cayenne would "wow" me over, so be it. So I started the test with a drive of a Cayenne Turbo, not the S. The Turbo has every suspension option so, if this truck doesn't do it for you, nothing in the Cayenne repertoire will suffice. And it just didn't "click". After all of the glowing reports in the automotive press, I have to ask myself "Why don't you feel what they feel?". But after some 33 years of real life experience behind the wheels of all kinds of vehicles, I now trust my gut feelings after a test drive better than reading one hundred articles in the press. For example, a 2004 Motor Trend comparo had a non-Sport X5 take on the SUV competition, the latter mostly with Sport and Air suspension options. Why would BMW even allowed this to happen in the first place? Or the English BMW "press vehicle" 4.8 which SteveD found was faulty and not representative of the best this SAV can do! So in the final analysis, do your own intensive test drives and trust your instincts!

Last edited by z356; 12-07-2005 at 05:12 PM.
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  #24  
Old 12-08-2005, 05:32 PM
J.El J.El is offline
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Location: Switzerland
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 25
Mein Auto: 2003 Mercedes-Benz ML
If you want power wait for the new ML63 AMG. Faster then a Cayenne turbo...
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  #25  
Old 12-08-2005, 08:19 PM
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Emission Emission is offline
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Location: North of Los Angeles, CA
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Posts: 10,688
Mein Auto: Schnelle Autos
Quote:
Originally Posted by J.El
If you want power wait for the new ML63 AMG. Faster then a Cayenne turbo...
Don't take this personally (I see you own one), but the ML is nothing to be impressed with. It does nothing extraordinary, just everything well (read that "boring"). The Cayenne and BMW both excel in areas, and suck in others (read that "personality").

We looked at the ML500 last month. Test drove three (just to confirm our opinions), then walked away...
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I am fortunate to have unique press cars delivered weekly, but I own:

'13 Audi Q5 2.0T Quattro 8AT
'86 Porsche 911 Turbo 4MT


Gone, but never forgotten... my E70 X5 35d, E90 335i, E46 330i, E36 328i, E70 X5 3.0si, E53 X5 3.0i.
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