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6 Series
The BMW 6 Series builds on BMW's sporty heritage with aggressive lines and an incredible motor to back the design up. Available in coupe and convertible trims with a standard 4.8 liter engine producing 360 horsepower and 360 lb-ft of torque, the 6-series is a popular choice that exceeds expectations.

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  #1  
Old 12-15-2005, 07:24 PM
SanDiego SanDiego is offline
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645 Engine Failure

My 645 failed at 10K. Symptoms were similar to head gasket failure. According to BMW engine is "toast" and they are replacing it. They have yet to give me any reason for the failure (keeping it all close to the vest notwithstanding the fact I have asked for details many times). Anyone else know of this problem?
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  #2  
Old 12-15-2005, 07:48 PM
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grahambishop grahambishop is offline
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Unhappy

Wow...what a PITA! you have my total sympathy and admiration because you are totally more cool about it than I think I would be. I hope you get back on the road soon and that BMW continues to stand by you.
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  #3  
Old 12-15-2005, 08:19 PM
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chuck92103 chuck92103 is offline
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The first I heard of it. I know there are several folks on this board with 645's in excess of 20k miles.

It is not a new engine, came from the 7 series I believe, so I tend to believe this is an isolated incident.

Do you have auto, stick, or SMG?
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  #4  
Old 12-15-2005, 10:34 PM
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bimmer7 bimmer7 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SanDiego
My 645 failed at 10K. Symptoms were similar to head gasket failure. According to BMW engine is "toast" and they are replacing it. They have yet to give me any reason for the failure (keeping it all close to the vest notwithstanding the fact I have asked for details many times). Anyone else know of this problem?
woooooooo thas so baddddd ....
man I would flip over if that happened to me ......and you are what at the 10K mark....damn thats too early....
but i guess its better for these things to happen earlier then after....
Well really sorry to hear about this again....I hope your dealership extends you the warmest regard and their co-operation ....jus keep your cool which I guess you have....and see what they have to offer....and how long it will take...you will jus have to drive a loaner for now....which they wud have provided you anyways.....

Let us know of any developments.......
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2002 745Li -- Sold
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  #5  
Old 12-16-2005, 07:38 AM
Malibubimmer Malibubimmer is offline
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I feel for you. I've had iDrive problems, but they're minor compared to this. I sure wish you could get the 4.8 litre engine as a replacement. In fact, why don't you ask?
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  #6  
Old 12-16-2005, 08:12 AM
SanDiego SanDiego is offline
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Thanks for the kind words. My car is an auto and pampered. I have a 2003 M3 SMG as well and have never had a problem considering the well documents engine problems in the early builds. Unfortunately the dealer has not been responsive in my opinion. The car set on the lot for 4 days before they evey looked at it (to busy, even after I told them the engine was likely full of water). They did get BWM approval for the engine switch quickly and the claim tha they receeived an engine in within a few days. However, it is going to take a week and 1/2 before they get around to installing the engine. Thus far the BMW has been responsive - the dealer - well - you decide.
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  #7  
Old 12-16-2005, 09:46 AM
Malibubimmer Malibubimmer is offline
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Lemon Law

Check out the lemon laws. You may be able to get BMW to buy it back and give you a new one if you have also had other problems with the car or if it is out of service for a lengthy period of time. Obviously you want to be nice to your dealer (who doesn't deserve it), but maybe you should also let the dealer know you're sniffing around for lemon law issues -- by asking for a copy of your complete service and warranty history (if there is one). If the dealer asks "why," tell the dealer you are thinking about having BMW buy the car back.

Good luck! Please tell us the status when you can. And if you can find out exactly what it was that failed (you said like a head gasket problem?), that would be helpful to all of us and possibly to you, too. You should tell the dealer that you are entitled to know what failed under the National Highway Transportation Act. (I don't know if this is true, but see what that does. Can't hurt.)
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  #8  
Old 12-16-2005, 04:13 PM
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bimmer7 bimmer7 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Malibubimmer
Check out the lemon laws. You may be able to get BMW to buy it back and give you a new one if you have also had other problems with the car or if it is out of service for a lengthy period of time. Obviously you want to be nice to your dealer (who doesn't deserve it), but maybe you should also let the dealer know you're sniffing around for lemon law issues -- by asking for a copy of your complete service and warranty history (if there is one). If the dealer asks "why," tell the dealer you are thinking about having BMW buy the car back.

Good luck! Please tell us the status when you can. And if you can find out exactly what it was that failed (you said like a head gasket problem?), that would be helpful to all of us and possibly to you, too. You should tell the dealer that you are entitled to know what failed under the National Highway Transportation Act. (I don't know if this is true, but see what that does. Can't hurt.)
I agree with the dealership not being responsive to something serious....like this is jus not acceptable....I mean when I want something done to my cars... I walk into BMW and they take my cars in right away ...and now even better because I will have service and repairs done under warranty for my 745Li....and since they get paid from BMW canada for that....means even more responsive service......plus Im tight with my SVC rep ....I guess that also helps too.....
On top of that our family has bought over 6 cars in the last year....X5's 7's & 3's....mostly new and some CPO's....
But I agree with Malibu on this one ....get this stuff about lemon law issues into their ears...so they take your problem seriously... I mean probably have a quick chat with the SVC managers as well...if that may help...
I know you mus be feeling really down....but theres nothing to worry about it...BMW will stand behind their cars...and get you back on the road soon enough...otherwise you may have to infact GO into litigation as Malibu said....

Keep us posted....on any developments...
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2002 745Li -- Sold
2000 750iL -- Sold

Last edited by bimmer7; 12-16-2005 at 04:15 PM.
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  #9  
Old 12-16-2005, 06:51 PM
cobradav cobradav is offline
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Another one was reported in this thread :

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=117606

And a replacement before total failure:

http://bimmer.roadfly.com/bmw/forums/e63/7216724-1.html
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  #10  
Old 12-19-2005, 07:39 PM
SanDiego SanDiego is offline
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Thanks for the links on the other engine failures. I was told last week that I would get my car back on Wednesday. I talked to BMW NA on Friday. They said the replacement would be a “new” engine with a 2-year warranty. Of course, they acknowledged that was meaningless because my car already has a 4-year warranty. I will keep you posted.
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  #11  
Old 12-29-2005, 01:27 PM
SanDiego SanDiego is offline
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FYI, still have had this car returned.
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  #12  
Old 12-29-2005, 01:53 PM
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chuck92103 chuck92103 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SanDiego
FYI, still have had this car returned.
???

What do you mean? Do you mean you are still waiting on your car to be repaired?
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  #13  
Old 12-29-2005, 07:19 PM
SanDiego SanDiego is offline
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Finally called at 4:59 pm (it is already dark in San Diego), after I left a call with the service manager (who did not even know about my car; notwithstanding it has been in the shop since Dec. 3). The car is "ready". I also heard, for the first time, the fix is a remanufactured engine! And, since they only send a short block, the dealer has had to essentially rebuild the engine. So, BMW sells a car that fails at 10,000 miles and the dealer gets to experiment at my risk. Everytime I have asked about the delay, the service rep has told me this is the fist time they have done this work. Gives me a lot of confidence.

I told them I would wait until daylight to pickup the car.

Last edited by SanDiego; 12-30-2005 at 07:17 AM.
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  #14  
Old 12-29-2005, 07:22 PM
Malibubimmer Malibubimmer is offline
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You Are Being Screwed With

You are being screwed with, San Diego. Time to screw back. Under the California Lemon Law, BMW and your dealer have 30 days to repair your vehicle, or buy it back. Here is what the applicable provision of the California Civil Code provides:

Quote:
§ 1793.2(b) Where those service and repair facilities are maintained in this state and service or repair of the goods is necessary because they do not conform with the applicable express warranties, service and repair shall be commenced within a reasonable time by the manufacturer or its representative in this state. Unless the buyer agrees in writing to the contrary, the goods shall be serviced or repaired so as to conform to the applicable warranties within 30 days. Delay caused by conditions beyond the control of the manufacturer or its representatives shall serve to extend this 30-day requirement. Where delay arises, conforming goods shall be tendered as soon as possible following termination of the condition giving rise to the delay.
There are some exceptions, but jerking you around does not constitute one of them. Has the car ever been in for any other repairs? I think (but I am not sure) that you can add whatever number of additional days the car was out of service for other repairs, too, especially if they were safety-related.

You first posted here on December 14. We're 15 days beyond that now. When did your engine fail and you deliver the car to your dealer? Was it the same day? I bet it wasn't.

At this point you can be a wallflower and let them continue to screw with you, and then tell them on day 31 you want a new car (or your money back). Or, you can wave this section of the Lemon Law in someone's face (probably best to do to someone at BMW NA, since your dealership sounds like a bad joke) and tell them your sense of humor has expired.

I just saw your reply. If the rebuilt engine has problems, then you should follow my advice, above. Don't accept anything less than an engine as good as yours was (or should have been) before it failed. If you have any problems with the engine, bring it back. And bring it back as often as you must. Remember - 30 days.

Good luck.

Last edited by Malibubimmer; 12-29-2005 at 07:26 PM. Reason: San Diego's reply crossed my post
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  #15  
Old 12-29-2005, 07:25 PM
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chuck92103 chuck92103 is offline
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I would like to know what dealership this is since I live in San Diego. If you don't feel comfortable posting this information, please PM me..

Last edited by chuck92103; 12-29-2005 at 07:34 PM.
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  #16  
Old 12-29-2005, 07:32 PM
Malibubimmer Malibubimmer is offline
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I just read all of your prior post. Your car has been in the shop since December 3. Today is the 26th day. If you have to bring it back and it spends more than 4 days at this pitiful dealership, you have a Lemon law claim, my friend. And BMW will have to eat the 6er. Remember, do not accept it unless it is perfect.

If, tomorrow morning, there is something wrong, determine what it is and reject it. BMW will then have to fix it on the spot (unlikely based on the sloth of this dealership), or it will sit there until at least January 2 or 3. And, January 2 (which I think is an observed National Holiday) is 30 days to the day since you brought the 6er in. Unless you don't want a new 6er you should not remind the dealer that the clock on the 30 days is running . . .

You have been screwed with. Time to assert your rights.

Good luck.
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  #17  
Old 12-29-2005, 07:37 PM
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chuck92103 chuck92103 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Malibubimmer
I just read all of your prior post. Your car has been in the shop since December 3. Today is the 26th day. If you have to bring it back and it spends more than 4 days at this pitiful dealership, you have a Lemon law claim, my friend. And BMW will have to eat the 6er. Remember, do not accept it unless it is perfect.

If, tomorrow morning, there is something wrong, determine what it is and reject it. BMW will then have to fix it on the spot (unlikely based on the sloth of this dealership), or it will sit there until at least January 2 or 3. And, January 2 (which I think is an observed National Holiday) is 30 days to the day since you brought the 6er in. Unless you don't want a new 6er you should not remind the dealer that the clock on the 30 days is running . . .

You have been screwed with. Time to assert your rights.

Good luck.
You know, If I had 40k miles on my car and the engine blew, I would settle for a rebuilt. 10K miles and I would be demanding a new engine. That engine could be coming from an 03 645 that is close to two years old. No telling how much mileage is on it. The only other way I would be happy is with a CPO warranty thrown in.
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  #18  
Old 12-29-2005, 07:42 PM
Malibubimmer Malibubimmer is offline
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Bad Idea - Chuck92013

Quote:
Originally Posted by chuck92103
You know, If I had 40k miles on my car and the engine blew, I would settle for a rebuilt. 10K miles and I would be demanding a new engine. That engine could be coming from an 03 645 that is close to two years old. No telling how much mileage is on it. The only other way I would be happy is with a CPO warranty thrown in.
Right now I think San Diego has to proceed very carefully. If he gets an extended warranty, he may be giving up his rights to get a new car.

Before he accepts it tomorrow morning he needs to go over it with a fine tooth comb. He needs to spend some time with it -- at the dealership -- checking everything, listening to it idle, revving the engine, checking over the iDrive, etc., etc. And then he needs to take it for a drive. He should ask the service manager to come with him. These people seem so arrogant and incompetent that the Service Manager will probably say no. Ditto his SA. So, he should take it out and try it out -- and let's hope he can bring a friend -- not a relative. If there is anything wrong with it, he should bring it back immediately, have a new work order filled out, and leave the car until it is perfect.

And he should stop reminding the dealer that he wants his car back. The clock is ticking. Let the dealer blow it.
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  #19  
Old 01-15-2006, 05:51 PM
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chuck92103 chuck92103 is offline
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Whatever happened to your car engine issue?
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  #20  
Old 01-17-2006, 05:49 PM
SanDiego SanDiego is offline
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Sorry for the delay in getting back, I have been out of town. The dealer said it was a new engine, valve train, etc. The only parts from the old engine are the water pump, alt, etc. Thus far I have not noticed any problems. The dealer was apologetic regarding the delays. Said the installation was much harder than they expected. But I don’t think I was treated as well as one would expect under the circumstances (by the dealer or BMWNA). The engine was crated and shipped back to BWM to try to determine the problem. At least two valves broke and pieces fell in the cylinders. They don't know what caused it. I will report if I have other problems.
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  #21  
Old 01-17-2006, 07:23 PM
Malibubimmer Malibubimmer is offline
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Lemon Law

Quote:
Originally Posted by SanDiego
Sorry for the delay in getting back, I have been out of town. The dealer said it was a new engine, valve train, etc. The only parts from the old engine are the water pump, alt, etc. Thus far I have not noticed any problems. The dealer was apologetic regarding the delays. Said the installation was much harder than they expected. But I don’t think I was treated as well as one would expect under the circumstances (by the dealer or BMWNA). The engine was crated and shipped back to BWM to try to determine the problem. At least two valves broke and pieces fell in the cylinders. They don't know what caused it. I will report if I have other problems.
I posted a lot in this thread about the Lemon Law. Too bad you didn't see it before you helped your dealer give you back your car without invoking your Lemon Law rights. If you have any more problems, make BMW NA buy back the car!
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  #22  
Old 01-17-2006, 07:26 PM
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chuck92103 chuck92103 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Malibubimmer
I posted a lot in this thread about the Lemon Law. Too bad you didn't see it before you helped your dealer give you back your car without invoking your Lemon Law rights. If you have any more problems, make BMW NA buy back the car!
Pardon my ignorance. Does an engine failure make the car a lemon? I thought you had to have the same issue three or more times to qualify as a lemon. Are there stipulations I am missing?
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  #23  
Old 01-17-2006, 08:28 PM
Malibubimmer Malibubimmer is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chuck92103
Pardon my ignorance. Does an engine failure make the car a lemon? I thought you had to have the same issue three or more times to qualify as a lemon. Are there stipulations I am missing?
The car was in the shop for almost the 30 day maximum. SanDiego kept calling his dealer to remind the dealer he was waiting for his car. Bad call. He should have let the dealer "forget" and then asked for a new one on day 31. I think he picked it up on day 29 or 30. Go upthread. Advice which ignored the 30 day maximum under the Lemon Law was not good advice. People should not have encouraged SanDiego to urge the dealer to finish the car. Around about day 25, when his dealer was moving in slow motion, SanDiego should have been salivating over thoughts of sugar plums (it was Christmas time) and new 650is.

If the car is in the shop for at least another day or two during the warranty period, I think SanDiego should contact a lawyer and inquire about the Lemon Law.

Quote:
California Civil Code sec. 1793.2(b) Where those service and repair facilities are maintained in this state and service or repair of the goods is necessary because they do not conform with the applicable express warranties, service and repair shall be commenced within a reasonable time by the manufacturer or its representative in this state. Unless the buyer agrees in writing to the contrary, the goods shall be serviced or repaired so as to conform to the applicable warranties within 30 days. Delay caused by conditions beyond the control of the manufacturer or its representatives shall serve to extend this 30-day requirement. Where delay arises, conforming goods shall be tendered as soon as possible following termination of the condition giving rise to the delay.

Last edited by Malibubimmer; 01-17-2006 at 08:35 PM.
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  #24  
Old 01-17-2006, 08:43 PM
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chuck92103 chuck92103 is offline
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*******>********>

So really the time frame is more than 30 days. If BMW does not have an engine and had to wait for one, that would be a reasonable delay to me, although frustrating. The question is how long of a delay is reasonable for such a major repair.

Last edited by chuck92103; 01-17-2006 at 09:18 PM.
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  #25  
Old 01-17-2006, 09:14 PM
Malibubimmer Malibubimmer is offline
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Chuck923103 - The Board is doing weird things with posts - putting in asterisks. Can you re-edit so we can figure out what you were writing?

I don't believe you are correct. The statute doesn't talk about a "reasonable delay." It talks about a circumstance beyond the control of the dealer or manufacturer -- such as a strike, war, earthquake, or other act of God. (These "act of God" or "force majeure" clauses have a long history and there are many cases interpreting them. They are different from "reasonable delay" or actually, "reasonable extension" provisions.) If BMW doesn't have enough engines available, or a dealer doesn't have enough trained technicians, that's all within BMW's control. So, it's 30 days unless San Diego gets hit with a hurricane.

Here is a good, concise discussion of "force majeure" clauses. Force Majeure Clauses Link

Sadly, SanDiego pops on to the Board only occasionally. I don't think he'll read this thread again until it's too late - again.

Last edited by Malibubimmer; 01-17-2006 at 09:21 PM.
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