Final Word on "Paint Sealers"

I own a brand new 650i Coupe.

Jet Black.

I have not washed it yet. I've had it 2 days.

I had to pick it up in LA and drive it home to San Diego.

Lucky me, that was on the one day out of the year that it rained.

I am terrified to wash the thing, out of fear of beginning the swirling process.

It currently has NO SWIRLS AT ALL.

I can't even rinse the thing down with water because Im told it has to be deionized water.

So....

1) Dealer offered me "Resistal Appearance Protection".

"Protects against permanent damage caused by oxidation, fading, loss of gloss, permanent hard water etching, industrial fallout, bird droppings, insects, tree sap, and acid rain. Protects Fabric, Vinyl, and Leather against permenant damage caused by fading, chewing gum, loose seam stitches, and permenant staining caused by food, drink, ink, dye, lipstick, makeup, crayons, urine, vomit, and oil based stains. Additionally, coverage against punctures less than 1/4" in diameter and rips or tears less than one inch."

Its something they apply to the car once, and takes about 4 hours he said.

Cost is $600.

2) I have a mobile detailer who lives next door who says "YOU SHOULD DEFINITELY PUT THAT ON YOUR CAR NOW, IN THE BEGINNING, IT WILL HELP RESIST SWIRLING!"

Everyone else says "Don't bother. Its a dealer markup. They're making money. Its just a wax job. Its nothing special".

So whats the final word here? Im at an important point right now. Zero swirls. Possible I could put a sealant on it and reduce them. Should I just have the detailer "hand wipe" (and cause swirling!) the car? Or should I drive my ass back up to LA and have them put this magical sealant on it?

Please advise.

Dealer wants $600 for a wax job, no thanks. It's a huge waste. The only way to prevent swirling is to be extra careful at wash and dry time. Micro-swirls are caused by grit in your wash sponge/water. Search around for proper washing technique, generally involves using two buckets (one for soapy water, one for fresh to rinse the sponge), proper "sponge", and proper drying technique.

Having a good coating of wax/sealant will certainly help. Popular choices are Zaino and Klasse with a topper of Carnuba.

I will say though, you picked the absolute hardest color to keep swirl free. But, if you use extra caution when washing, keep it out of the sun, and keep a good coat of wax on the finish, you should be successful.

I might consider getting one of these things:
http://crspotless.com/

It'll let you wash your car without having to dry it (which is when a lot of swirling happens). I'm dubious on any paint protectant or sealant- especially when it costs $600.

Also, I know its a new car and you want to preserve it in its current state-- but realistically it'll get dings, chips etc within a year unless you never drive it.

Lifetime Paint Protection:
There is no polymer, synthetic or natural wax, or after-market product available that can provide a (2 or 5 year) lifetime protection to a paint film surface.

The primary protection provided for a modern water-based colour coat is a polythene paint that has a thickness of 2-3 Mils (0.002-0.003") this is protected by a sacrificial barrier of wax or synthetic polymer sealant.

This barrier is all that stands between the environmental contaminants (ultra violet radiation, acid rain, ozone, industrial pollution, rain, road dirt and tar, etc) and the paint film surface. This renewable barrier is less than 0.000001" thick. While it's true that a polymer paints melting point is 350+oF, it is still subject to evaporation and erosion by the elements and vehicle washing. However its durability is approximately five or six months.

The technology for a lifetime protection for a vehicles paint film surface does not currently exist.

Most dealerships rely on the fact that few customers read the fine print on the contract; most tell you it must be reapplied every 6 months and every 3 months on darker coloured cars.

While it will not provide 'lifetime' protection go to a Chrysler or Dodge dealer and get them to apply the Daimler-Chrysler Master Shield sealant, this product provides both real protection and a real warranty for any make of vehicle.

Whoa I'm very surprised your neighbor the mobile detailer actually recommends that. It's a complete waste of $$$ according to most detailers, at least the ones that post on internet bulletin boards

Buy 1 share of Google instead.

Originally Posted by robg

I might consider getting one of these things:
http://crspotless.com/

It'll let you wash your car without having to dry it (which is when a lot of swirling happens). I'm dubious on any paint protectant or sealant- especially when it costs $600.

Also, I know its a new car and you want to preserve it in its current state-- but realistically it'll get dings, chips etc within a year unless you never drive it.

That's pretty cool, and it's not too expensive either.

Well I opted to bail on the ResistAll paint sealant offer from BMW Beverly Hills, and instead have a local luxury car detailer come by and wash my car and give it its first wax.

To my chagrin (ive always wanted to use that word), at night, in the parking lot under the lights, I could see swirl marks from his cleaning.

I was pissed.

This guy is supposedly good. I assume he's not a freakin idiot. He's got new porsche's and benz's parked in front of his house every week that he works on. I even watched him wash the car, and he was barely applying *any* pressure at all. He was being very careful. Took him nearly 3 hours, and it wasn't even very dirty.

But there it was, clear as day, swirl marks that clearly were the result of one or two brand new swipes of the cloth.

So basically its IMPOSSIBLE to wipe ANYTHING on a jet black car without causing swirling, or is this guy just completely inept at doing his job???

Originally Posted by Nevervana

So basically its IMPOSSIBLE to wipe ANYTHING on a jet black car without causing swirling, or is this guy just completely inept at doing his job???

My opinion is that yes, its almost impossible to not swirl a jet black car. I know some here may claim that they can do it-- but I really doubt its possible. I gave up on "swirl free" w/ my jet black car a few years ago.

Maybe if you washed it in "clean room" conditions under bright fluorescent lights, going very slowly (maybe a few square inches at a time) and constantly checking to see if you're scratching the paint it *might* be possible to not swirl.

I think that all most people mean when they talk about "swirl free" is a good wax job that hides the sins to some extent.

It is difficult to but not impossible to do a swirl free wash and wax on a black car. Not sure what application this guy did. Was it just wash and wax?

On a new car I would.

1. Wash using two buckets, one with soap and water and one with water for rinsing. Carefully dry with a blotting technique.
2. Clay Bar
3. Cleaner/Sealant application
4. Wax, changing to clean MF towels frequently.

robg is right I would take the car to a detail shop indoors, there would be less chance of dirt landing on the surface while detailing.

I believe that polishing is always detrimental to paintwork, and should not be necessary
with a modern car. My Mercedes is kept permanently outside and is only washed 2/3
times a year, and although more than 15 years old ( 49,500 miles covered so far ),
the bodywork still shames most new cars.
Not impressed with the pronounced orange-peel effect in the paintwork of BMW's seen
in dealers showrooms over here. Are right-hand cars assembled in South Africa?.
However I am still tempted by the E90 Touring, and if BMW condescends to make this
available in the U.K with X drive ( after all we Brit's have to pay nearly 50% more than
in the U.S. where X drive is fitted as standard ), then I will have my cheque book ready.

Originally Posted by P.Chas

I believe that polishing is always detrimental to paintwork, and should not be necessary
with a modern car. My Mercedes is kept permanently outside and is only washed 2/3
times a year, and although more than 15 years old ( 49,500 miles covered so far ),
the bodywork still shames most new cars.
Not impressed with the pronounced orange-peel effect in the paintwork of BMW's seen
in dealers showrooms over here. Are right-hand cars assembled in South Africa?.
However I am still tempted by the E90 Touring, and if BMW condescends to make this
available in the U.K with X drive ( after all we Brit's have to pay nearly 50% more than
in the U.S. where X drive is fitted as standard ), then I will have my cheque book ready.

If you don't wash, clay, polish and wax/seal your car you are willing to live with major imperfections in the way it looks. For your ungaraged car, you definitely have metal shavings, bird crap, water spots and who knows what imbedded and etched in the paint. It's a fact of life, the environment and manufactured crap will eat away the clear coat and the paint no matter the make or age of the car. Detailing essentially cleans the paint and adds a sacrificial layer of protection that gets attacked isntead of your paint.

Polishing by definition is "detrimental" to paint per se, or at least the clear coat layer atop the paint. When you get swirls, or scratches, you now have a very uneven surface level with sharp angles which reflect the light in such a way you can clearly see them. Polishing essentially removes a very thin layer of the clear coat or paint if you have no clear coat, to round out the edges around the scratches so they're less visible (don't need to worry about running out of clear coat tho, unless you use a heavy duty machine and burr the hell out of the car). There are other products called glazes that temporarily fill in the scratches which smooths out the surface again and effectively hides the scratches - but the problem is when it rains or you wash the car you wash the glaze away and you see swirls/scratches again.

And of course if you wash, dry and polish in a dusty area you are in fact scraping dust particles across your clear coat or paint since it gets stuck in the towels you use.

Orange peel is very common nowadays on almost every car available. It may have something to do with emissions regulations and the kinds of chemicals used as carriers of the paint.

That's all we do for our cars, one of which is a jet black 325iT. And actually, we only polish and wax 2-4x a year. And before I get flamed, the next time it's washed I'll post pics

Originally Posted by Artslinger

It is difficult to but not impossible to do a swirl free wash and wax on a black car. Not sure what application this guy did. Was it just wash and wax?

On a new car I would.

1. Wash using two buckets, one with soap and water and one with water for rinsing. Carefully dry with a blotting technique.
2. Clay Bar
3. Cleaner/Sealant application
4. Wax, changing to clean MF towels frequently.

An old saying that still holds so true...:


"All good things must come to an end."
Damn sad, but true. Even with the hottest, sexiest babes i've ever had the pleasure of dating. Damn.
325ic a beer

Originally Posted by Nevervana

Well I opted to bail on the ResistAll paint sealant offer from BMW Beverly Hills, and instead have a local luxury car detailer come by and wash my car and give it its first wax.

To my chagrin (ive always wanted to use that word), at night, in the parking lot under the lights, I could see swirl marks from his cleaning.

I was pissed.

This guy is supposedly good. I assume he's not a freakin idiot. He's got new porsche's and benz's parked in front of his house every week that he works on. I even watched him wash the car, and he was barely applying *any* pressure at all. He was being very careful. Took him nearly 3 hours, and it wasn't even very dirty.

But there it was, clear as day, swirl marks that clearly were the result of one or two brand new swipes of the cloth.

So basically its IMPOSSIBLE to wipe ANYTHING on a jet black car without causing swirling, or is this guy just completely inept at doing his job???

I wouldn't be so fast to blame your detailer (though it's certainly possible he's inept). If your dealer applied a wax or a glaze prior to delivery, that could both conceal pre-existing swirls and be removed at first wash. Message boards are filled with stories from people whose cars "became" terribly swirled after the first wash.

Originally Posted by Nevervana

I own a brand new 650i Coupe.

Jet Black.

I have not washed it yet. I've had it 2 days.

I had to pick it up in LA and drive it home to San Diego.

Lucky me, that was on the one day out of the year that it rained.

I am terrified to wash the thing, out of fear of beginning the swirling process.

It currently has NO SWIRLS AT ALL.

I can't even rinse the thing down with water because Im told it has to be deionized water.

So....

1) Dealer offered me "Resistal Appearance Protection".

"Protects against permanent damage caused by oxidation, fading, loss of gloss, permanent hard water etching, industrial fallout, bird droppings, insects, tree sap, and acid rain. Protects Fabric, Vinyl, and Leather against permenant damage caused by fading, chewing gum, loose seam stitches, and permenant staining caused by food, drink, ink, dye, lipstick, makeup, crayons, urine, vomit, and oil based stains. Additionally, coverage against punctures less than 1/4" in diameter and rips or tears less than one inch."

Its something they apply to the car once, and takes about 4 hours he said.

Cost is $600.

2) I have a mobile detailer who lives next door who says "YOU SHOULD DEFINITELY PUT THAT ON YOUR CAR NOW, IN THE BEGINNING, IT WILL HELP RESIST SWIRLING!"

Everyone else says "Don't bother. Its a dealer markup. They're making money. Its just a wax job. Its nothing special".

So whats the final word here? Im at an important point right now. Zero swirls. Possible I could put a sealant on it and reduce them. Should I just have the detailer "hand wipe" (and cause swirling!) the car? Or should I drive my ass back up to LA and have them put this magical sealant on it?

Please advise.

====================
I was offered the same idea when I purchased my previous vehicle from a different dealer. This wax job was to be the most fantastic wax job since cars were invented. I checked with the person who details my vehicle. He said there is no such animal. Therefore, I did not go ahead.

Jet Black=Have another clear coat added when neew!

Jet Black=Have another clear coat applied when new!

That will swirl too.