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6 Series
The BMW 6 Series builds on BMW's sporty heritage with aggressive lines and an incredible motor to back the design up. Available in coupe and convertible trims with a standard 4.8 liter engine producing 360 horsepower and 360 lb-ft of torque, the 6-series is a popular choice that exceeds expectations.

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  #1  
Old 01-30-2006, 10:56 PM
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Nevervana Nevervana is offline
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650 "Sport" mode - Lost Control

Something pretty disturbing happened today ....

Having learned how to drive in Manhattan, I consider myself a pretty good driver. Very aggressive yet still in control. Despite this, I have never owned a car with this much power before.

I've been acclimating myself to the "Sport" mode recently, and have been doing well, but something really dangerous happened today, and I am still not sure what to make of it.

I was rolling down a hill towards a fairly open turn with the sport option "on" ... and as I rounded the corner and gently accellerated ... the car literally thrust me forward three times.... so strongly that I was thrown back against the seat and literally lost grip of the steering wheel. The car shot straight out into the middle of the road, obvoiusly, because I could not turn with my hands off the wheel. I hit the brakes and grabbed the wheel pretty quickly ... but I would not be here if there were cars coming from the other direction.

As we have all discussed, the car tends to jerk forward and "revv" too high when downshifting .... and accellerating. But until now, it has been only a minor "loss of control" ... today was just plain dangerous.

Aside from the possibility that I suck as a driver, it will be interesting to see if reports like these ever appear in the future.

-N-

Last edited by Nevervana; 01-30-2006 at 11:00 PM.
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  #2  
Old 01-30-2006, 11:00 PM
Malibubimmer Malibubimmer is offline
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I had a "triple surge" the day before the 6erfest. I was writing it off to "driver error" though I didn't think I had done anything, or an anomaly . . . but now that you mention it I wonder if this is yet another iDrive issue. We'll know, if anyone else reports it.
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  #3  
Old 01-30-2006, 11:02 PM
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Nevervana Nevervana is offline
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If something this dramatic happens to others, I smell a recall. Mine was extreme. Like scary extreme. It was as if I had slammed the pedal to the metal three times in a row... when I was supposed to be coasting slowly around a corner.

-N-
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  #4  
Old 01-30-2006, 11:05 PM
Malibubimmer Malibubimmer is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nevervana
If something this dramatic happens to others, I smell a recall. Mine was extreme. Like scary extreme. It was as if I had slammed the pedal to the metal three times in a row.

-N-
I was also in Sport. The surge was not as dramatic as yours, but it was strong. Each time, within perhaps a total of a second, the car revved and lurched forward. I was driving straight ahead.
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  #5  
Old 01-30-2006, 11:17 PM
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I'm not exactly understanding what happened but i really want to know for my own safety. Were you hitting the throttle while the jerking happened? What about your steering wheel, how hard left or right was it turned? How deep into the turn did the jerking happen? After it happened the first of three times did you take your foot off the throttle or maintain the same throttle pressure? At what point in the turn did you accelerate? Do you know the basics of how to attack a turn? I'm thinking the car doesn't have any problems with it, most likely you just took the turn too hard or accelerated at the wrong area of the turn. It happens to everyone no matter how good of a driver you are. That being because most of the time we're driving we are assessing the turn right before we approach it as well as the entire duration of the turn as oppossed to having a proper practice run at a lower speed to understand the layout. Ranting i know..but that's how i look at it. But give me some additional info N so i can avoid making the same mistake..that is if it's avoidable and not a defect in the car.

Last edited by Steve645; 01-30-2006 at 11:21 PM.
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  #6  
Old 01-30-2006, 11:37 PM
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Nevervana Nevervana is offline
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I would be the first to say it was driver error, trust me. But this was ridiculous. Ive never been thrown back into my seat and lost grip of the steering wheel before.

What basically happened is that jerking you experience when coasting and then lightly hitting the gas ...

Times 10.

I think we all agree that in sport mode, this car is anything but smooth in its shift changes when gently speeding up. Mine isn't.

It quite honestly feels like a monster in a box wanting to get out. I apologized to a friend who was getting jerked around a bit the other day and she said "Dont apologize, this is a powerful car, thats what they do" ...

This was dangerous however. Not sure how to answer all your questions ... I coasted halfway into the turn and halfway into the turn I gently accellerated ... and it is at this point that it shot forward three times.

Malibu mentioned a similar experience. I've had it before too. Never this strong though.

I'll see if I can duplicate it tomorrow at the same turn.

By the way - these things always are worse after I've been really racing around ... and just a few blocks back, I was doing that.

-N-
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  #7  
Old 01-31-2006, 12:12 AM
Malibubimmer Malibubimmer is offline
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Now that I think about it, I had it happen once before, the day after I got the car. I thought I had hit a bump or dip on Mulholland Highway and that my right foot hit the accelerator pedal as a result, and as the car surged, that I had tapped it again twice. Sh!t. We need to find out about this. On that occasion I had turned the wheel ever so slightly. One thing to ask is whether your cars have AS. Also, we should look at the SIBs to see if this issue has previously been addressed. Does someone want to read this and find out. (Past my bedtime.) This may not be good.
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  #8  
Old 01-31-2006, 12:16 AM
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Nevervana Nevervana is offline
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"After vehicle has been programmed with CIP 13.x, the customer complains of altered shifting characteristics of the automatic transmission. Earlier up shifts, delayed downshifts when accelerating. 530i w/ ZF 6HP19 transmission produced 9/03 7/04."

That about sums it up, right from the horse's mouth. Except its a 530...

-N-

Last edited by Nevervana; 01-31-2006 at 12:20 AM.
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  #9  
Old 01-31-2006, 12:19 AM
Malibubimmer Malibubimmer is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nevervana
"After vehicle has been programmed with CIP 13.x, the customer complains of altered shifting characteristics of the automatic transmission. Earlier up shifts, delayed downshifts when accelerating. 530i w/ ZF 6HP19 transmission produced 9/03 7/04."
Not our car, or symptoms. It would be a repeated surge or acceleration of some kind.
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  #10  
Old 01-31-2006, 12:22 AM
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Nevervana Nevervana is offline
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All that crap happens when I drive.
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  #11  
Old 01-31-2006, 04:49 AM
richschneid richschneid is offline
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The throttle is very sensitive in the sport mode and the steering effort is increased. Seems like a lot of people are complaining about the "jerky" downshifting when slowing in the sport mode. The car is just downshifting and using engine braking to assist the brakes. This is what one does manually with a stick. You're supposed to feel the car decelerate further with each downshift. The car will not do it in non sport mode. I think your problem was driver error because you had been going fast and your foot inadvertantly pushed too hard on the accelerator as you came out of the turn. I have never had a problem. The auto has been almost perfect.
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  #12  
Old 01-31-2006, 05:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve645
I'm not exactly understanding what happened but i really want to know for my own safety. Were you hitting the throttle while the jerking happened? What about your steering wheel, how hard left or right was it turned? How deep into the turn did the jerking happen? After it happened the first of three times did you take your foot off the throttle or maintain the same throttle pressure? At what point in the turn did you accelerate? Do you know the basics of how to attack a turn? I'm thinking the car doesn't have any problems with it, most likely you just took the turn too hard or accelerated at the wrong area of the turn. It happens to everyone no matter how good of a driver you are. That being because most of the time we're driving we are assessing the turn right before we approach it as well as the entire duration of the turn as oppossed to having a proper practice run at a lower speed to understand the layout. Ranting i know..but that's how i look at it. But give me some additional info N so i can avoid making the same mistake..that is if it's avoidable and not a defect in the car.

You do realize you have a manual and i do believe the people reporting this issue have automatics.
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  #13  
Old 01-31-2006, 06:48 AM
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beewang beewang is offline
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This is not intended as a flame so don't take it the wrongway.

It sure sounds like you fellas needs to spend some time and invest on a performance car clinic. The 6er driving expeince would be a good starter, and perharps a few more on the track w/ a (be it BMWCCA or others). This is a powerful car, .... yeah... I know you may have other "AMG" "S4" type of car and may be "trained" in Manhatan or "Century City" but seriously.... That aint driving.

Also, you need to spend more time and learn your car by driving it, and I don't mean to be stuck on Wilshire Blvd for 30 mins as driving.

One of the first thing you will learn on performamce driving is your seating position. I know exactly how you are sitting and why you car thrusted forward 3 times and you lost control of your steering wheel.

If you ever show up on the next meet I can show you what you are doing wrong. In short there is an inverse relation w/ performance driving and seating position comfort.

cheers,

beewang
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  #14  
Old 01-31-2006, 07:09 AM
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chuck92103 chuck92103 is offline
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I have not had the issue. However, I rarely use sport mode.

I use the step when needed as I find sport mode to be a little to jerky.

I think driving school is a good suggestion.

Last edited by chuck92103; 01-31-2006 at 07:37 AM.
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  #15  
Old 01-31-2006, 07:15 AM
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LmtdSlip LmtdSlip is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chuck92103
I use the step when needed as I find sport mode to be "jerk mode".
Just because you don't use it dosent mean you aren't one....
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  #16  
Old 01-31-2006, 07:33 AM
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AriciU AriciU is offline
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I don't think your car has any problems. You just need to learn to drive it better and be more sensitive with your right foot. Sport mode sharpens up the throttle response. You probably came in the corner with a high gear at like 2000 revs or so and then mashed the throttle too hard, causing the car to down**** mid corner and reach something like 5000rpm. All would have been good, but since you were'n expecting it you probably lifted off the throttle fastly causing the car to engine brake witch would explain the lurch forward. You need to have a more sensitive right foot IMO.
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  #17  
Old 01-31-2006, 08:25 AM
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This is what happens when you recline your driver's seat all the way back, sit cocked to the left, with the cell phone up to one ear, and the other hand caressing the stereo volume knob.

Sit up, pay attention, and drive. Problem solved.

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  #18  
Old 01-31-2006, 08:30 AM
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Right, if you we're using the "gangsta" position for driving it's no wonder you lost the damn steering wheel in the process
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  #19  
Old 01-31-2006, 08:44 AM
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credit777 credit777 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nevervana
I consider myself a pretty good driver.
But then you said:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nevervana
I was thrown back against the seat and literally lost grip of the steering wheel. The car shot straight out into the middle of the road, obvoiusly, because I could not turn with my hands off the wheel.

Just a few things to help you out - don't get pissed. Ironically if you asked 100 people, 99 would say they are good drivers - and for the cars most of them drive, ok... we'll give them the benefit of the doubt. But these cars are a different animal - and there is no gray area.

I think its simple driver error due to unfamiliarity with throttle sensitivity in Sport. First you were "thrown back against the seat" - that tells me you were leaning forward. Mistake. You need to be able to reach any size turn on the wheel without your shoulders coming off the seat back.

Then you said you lost the grip on the wheel. The likely cause was your body movement due to your seat being too far back.

If you had been driving a manual - you'd have been prepared for the downshift and wouldn't have hit the gas at the higher RPM. My guess is that the Sport mode downshifted just at the moment you hit the gas. The excess torque surprised you - and sitting too forward on the seat exaggerated everything.

No worries.


EDIT: As I was posting I see that ff and Ariciu said basically the same thing. No redundancy intended.
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Last edited by credit777; 01-31-2006 at 08:48 AM. Reason: Additional Comments
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  #20  
Old 01-31-2006, 08:45 AM
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Nerdvana is probably the same girl who complained that the 6 series didn't have enough power. No she's complaining that it has too much.

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  #21  
Old 01-31-2006, 09:48 AM
richschneid richschneid is offline
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BMW invites 650 owners to the driving course in South Carolina. The 650 is a very high performance machine and one needs to learn how to drive it correctly. I suggest N goes. It's also a lot of fun, I suspect. I hope to go this summer.
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  #22  
Old 01-31-2006, 09:56 AM
Choson1 Choson1 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nevervana
Something pretty disturbing happened today ....

Having learned how to drive in Manhattan, I consider myself a pretty good driver. Very aggressive yet still in control. Despite this, I have never owned a car with this much power before.

I've been acclimating myself to the "Sport" mode recently, and have been doing well, but something really dangerous happened today, and I am still not sure what to make of it.

I was rolling down a hill towards a fairly open turn with the sport option "on" ... and as I rounded the corner and gently accellerated ... the car literally thrust me forward three times.... so strongly that I was thrown back against the seat and literally lost grip of the steering wheel. The car shot straight out into the middle of the road, obvoiusly, because I could not turn with my hands off the wheel. I hit the brakes and grabbed the wheel pretty quickly ... but I would not be here if there were cars coming from the other direction.

As we have all discussed, the car tends to jerk forward and "revv" too high when downshifting .... and accellerating. But until now, it has been only a minor "loss of control" ... today was just plain dangerous.

Aside from the possibility that I suck as a driver, it will be interesting to see if reports like these ever appear in the future.

-N-
that same phenomenon happens in my M3 with sport button on. the folks over at M3forum.net call it the jerking horse syndrome.
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  #23  
Old 01-31-2006, 10:09 AM
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Steve645 Steve645 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beewang
This is not intended as a flame so don't take it the wrongway.

It sure sounds like you fellas needs to spend some time and invest on a performance car clinic. The 6er driving expeince would be a good starter, and perharps a few more on the track w/ a (be it BMWCCA or others). This is a powerful car, .... yeah... I know you may have other "AMG" "S4" type of car and may be "trained" in Manhatan or "Century City" but seriously.... That aint driving.

Also, you need to spend more time and learn your car by driving it, and I don't mean to be stuck on Wilshire Blvd for 30 mins as driving.

One of the first thing you will learn on performamce driving is your seating position. I know exactly how you are sitting and why you car thrusted forward 3 times and you lost control of your steering wheel.

If you ever show up on the next meet I can show you what you are doing wrong. In short there is an inverse relation w/ performance driving and seating position comfort.

cheers,

beewang

So you're attributing this jerking to "seat position".....okay "Mario"
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  #24  
Old 01-31-2006, 10:16 AM
Choson1 Choson1 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve645
So you're attributing this jerking to "seat position".....okay "Mario"
i agree it's not the seating position that causes this occurrence. it's the way your foot modulates the throttle. however, seating position can affect the way your foot modulates the pedal, and therefore, can indirectly attribute to this happening. the jerking horse syndrome happens in every E46 M3 - it's a well documented "glitch" that BMW has failed to address. and i guess it also happens in the 6
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  #25  
Old 01-31-2006, 10:24 AM
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BahnBaum BahnBaum is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Choson1
i agree it's not the seating position that causes this occurrence. it's the way your foot modulates the throttle. however, seating position can affect the way your foot modulates the pedal, and therefore, can indirectly attribute to this happening
I agree 100%.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Choson1
. the jerking horse syndrome happens in every E46 M3 - it's a well documented "glitch" that BMW has failed to address. and i guess it also happens in the 6
It's never happened to me, but I never use sport mode.

Alex
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