Just a random thought about 335i

now being the first twin turbo engine from BMW, how reliable you think its going to be?
Personally, after giving it many thoughts, i am going to go for the 328 cuz i really want to keep this vehicle for a lonnnngg time.
i have no doubt the quality of vehicles from BMW, but I am just a little skeptical.

This is not BMW's first run on turbo design. Try a look up on the early 328i's. So be sure, the first group of bi-turbos will do fine but with anything new some issues will come up in a car (Not necessarily the bi-turbo).

Every other vehicle in Europe is a Turbo. Even though most are diesels there are tons more turbo gasoline engined cars in Europe than America. Do you hear any Europeans complaining about turbos? I might get flamed for this but it’s only the paranoid Americans that are worried about turbos. Turbo technology has advanced big time in the last twenty years. The rest of the world has moved on but it’s much harder for Americans to forget anything negative, even though there are plenty of turbo changed vehicles being operated around them trouble free every day. I’ve had three Turbo charged vehicles in the past and I wouldn’t hesitate to get another. Get over the paranoia and enjoy your car. I’m sure there are some folks still out there that refuse to purchase an Audi because they are afraid that the car may accelerate by itself.

Originally Posted by Spoonie G

Every other vehicle in Europe is a Turbo. Even though most are diesels there are tons more turbo gasoline engined cars in Europe than America. Do you hear any Europeans complaining about turbos? I might get flamed for this but it’s only the paranoid Americans that are worried about turbos. Turbo technology has advanced big time in the last twenty years. The rest of the world has moved on but it’s much harder for Americans to forget anything negative, even though there are plenty of turbo changed vehicles being operated around them trouble free every day. I’ve had three Turbo charged vehicles in the past and I wouldn’t hesitate to get another. Get over the paranoia and enjoy your car. I’m sure there are some folks still out there that refuse to purchase an Audi because they are afraid that the car may accelerate by itself.

Yes yes. That being said, the VW group is probably the biggest manufacturer of turbo engines, for both gasoline and diesel. But the 97 Audi A4 1.8T had an issue with oil coking up in the turbo bearing due to it's proximity to the hot exhaust manifolds. A simple heat shield fixed this problem, but a few owners have had to have their turbos replaced.

My NA 2003 ZHP had it's own teething problem, all software related due to the new programming for the "hotter" cams.

2001 and some 2002 M3's have had notorious bigtime engine problems.

I bet a case of beer that first year production 335's will have engine related problems. Anybody wants to take me up on that?

adc
03 330 ZHP

Not sure where people get the idea BMW is new to turbos. All of their diesel cars have turbos. The company started building airplane engines long ago with turbos. Turbos are old, old, old technology; there's nothing new or different about BMW using a turbo engine.

Originally Posted by blueguydotcom

Not sure where people get the idea BMW is new to turbos. All of their diesel cars have turbos. The company started building airplane engines long ago with turbos. Turbos are old, old, old technology; there's nothing new or different about BMW using a turbo engine.

My point was that they have had troubles in recent past with NA engines, which is supposedly their longstanding area of expertise. A turbo only adds complexity and more parts to the engine, way different software, as well as much more stress.

Will you take me up on my bet?

adc
03 330 ZHP

Originally Posted by adc

My point was that they have had troubles in recent past with NA engines, which is supposedly their longstanding area of expertise. A turbo only adds complexity and more parts to the engine, way different software, as well as much more stress.

Will you take me up on my bet?

adc
03 330 ZHP

No, as I expect BMWs to have problems with engines/electricals. That's the reason I lease them - they're poorly made.

Originally Posted by blueguydotcom

No, as I expect BMWs to have problems with engines/electricals. That's the reason I lease them - they're poorly made.

There is truth to that. If you want something just nearly bulletproof get a Toyo..er Lexus. But if you really want the Ultimate Driving Machine, I find that is still BMW, all problems aside.

Originally Posted by adc

A turbo only adds complexity and more parts to the engine, way different software, as well as much more stress.

adc
03 330 ZHP

Additional Engine complexity didn't begin with turbo chargers. Don’t the Double Vanos and multi-valve heads add to engine complexity? Why you are only concerned with the added "complexity" of a turbo charger when at the same time there are also additional parts (that add complexity) are added to engines all of the time? I'm not sure why everyone separates turbos while ignoring the other parts which are added to the engine. There seems to be a Turbo prejudice.

Back in the day (20 years ago) cars had two valves per cylinder (most have 4 now), single camshafts (most have 2 some have 4). Can you imagine someone back then saying that “I’m not sure about the reliability of the new engines, the additional cams and valves add to engine complexity”? Your comment about additional complexity sounds about the same.

The last time I had a turbo (Saab 900), the advice was to allow the turbo's to spin down before shutting off the engine. Same here?

Originally Posted by Spoonie G

Additional Engine complexity didn't begin with turbo chargers. Don’t the Double Vanos and multi-valve heads add to engine complexity? Why you are only concerned with the added "complexity" of a turbo charger when at the same time there are also additional parts (that add complexity) are added to engines all of the time? I'm not sure why everyone separates turbos while ignoring the other parts which are added to the engine. There seems to be a Turbo prejudice.

You didn't get my point. I said that in addition to everything else that's new, they add a turbo system which cannot help with reliability, as it adds extra parts, plumbing, wildly different software, extra stress on the engine internals etc.

I mentioned that BMW's record for normally aspirated engines was not that great in the past models - their V8's have always had oil leaks, their earlier ones have destroyed the cylinder walls, their S54's have self-destructed, their ZHP software was off the mark etc. So I ask you, how will a turbo help in this department???

I don't have a turbo prejudice, quite the contrary. I've owned and loved a 98 A4 1.8T for many years, and sure it was chipped.

I'm just saying that if there is one BMW engine that I would never buy in it's 1st year of production, it will be their brand new twin turbo. That's all.

adc
03 330 ZHP

Originally Posted by adc

I'm just saying that if there is one BMW engine that I would never buy in it's 1st year of production, it will be their brand new twin turbo. That's all.

I am sure that BMW would love to prove us wrong but IMO, the first year production is definitely a lease car. There will be issues...though they may not be directly related to the turbo.

Originally Posted by ddtan

The last time I had a turbo (Saab 900), the advice was to allow the turbo's to spin down before shutting off the engine. Same here?

Don't know but if that's what BMW wanted you to do they'd build it into the software and the car wouldn't shut down until the car was ready to shut down.

Originally Posted by MARCUS330i

Don't know but if that's what BMW wanted you to do they'd build it into the software and the car wouldn't shut down until the car was ready to shut down.

I highly doubt that. Being able to shut down the engine is a safety issue - can you imagine if you took the key out and it would keep running for another 30sec???

Because with the turbo timers that's what it takes - at least 30sec to keep the turbo spinning and the oil flowing through. This is recommended usually when the turbo is oil-cooled or if it has an "oil suspension bearing". And even then, the manual may recommend this, but the SW will not enforce it.

Other turbos have ball bearings and/or water cooling and don't necessarily need this procedure. I am not sure what the BMW setup is, but I doubt the engine will keep running after you instruct it to stop.

adc
03 330 ZHP

Originally Posted by MARCUS330i

Don't know but if that's what BMW wanted you to do they'd build it into the software and the car wouldn't shut down until the car was ready to shut down.

I liken that recommendation to the break in recommendations (Not over 4000 rpms until 1200 mi). You can ignore it if you want but it might prolong the life of the engine. Point is, that with 20 years of progress I wonder if turbo technology has advanced to the point to where those old recommendations don't apply anymore.

Originally Posted by ddtan

You can ignore it if you want but it might prolong the life of the engine.

1. It might prolong the life of the turbo, necessarily of the engine.
2. It was recommended only after running the engine very hard.
3. See my comment relating to turbo type and turbo cooling method.


adc
03 330 ZHP