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X5 E53 (1999 - 2006)
The X5 SAV Forum

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  #1  
Old 02-27-2006, 01:05 PM
wmccutcheon wmccutcheon is offline
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Range Rover / X5



Hi all,

After reading some of the posts within Bimmerfest, I feel bound and dutied to set the balance on the ongoing slaughter of our Green oval friends.

Let's all not forget that if BMW had not purchased Rover Group, then the X5 would probably not exist. Let's also not forget that if it was not for Land Rover, then the X5 would not be such a popular car as it is today, little do people know that the X5 had MASSIVE input from Land Rover! Let's also not forget that BMW made a huge profit from the sale of LR to the Ford Premier Automotive Group....it just slightly outweighs the investment...by about 1.3 BILLION! The Bavarian boys knew what they were getting into and saw there chance. Rover generally was not long term, what was however was the lucrative knowledge of the best 4x4 creator in the world.

Let us also not forget that the X5 is in effect a 5 series on stilts and not a thoroughbred 4x4 as most state on these boards. Yes, it's good, but not in the mud which we must not forget which is what these cars are supposed to do!

Now do not put me down as a MAD Englishman, I OWN an X5...yes, i do! My car is the 4.4i Sport with all the trimmings...it's good, No, it's very good...on road. It's like any other BMW I have owned before, but it has not been without it's troubles.

Now there is a general concencous within these boards that Land Rovers are unreliable and YES it was probably true pre-2002, but things have moved on. We should also remember that pre-2002 was BMW ownership days....so slating the Green oval is pretty much like calling the kettle black. Lest we not forget that BMW stole and pillaged the Rover expertise to create the X5.

Amazing but true, the 2002>on Range Rover was a funded development by BMW bosses and it was ultimately a grand creation, a very good looking beast indeed. What is NOT banded around within these boards about the niggley failures that these cars suffered with, is the fact that the components used within were BMW parts and BMW engines. It is a hard one to swallow, but it was a BMW manufacturing issue that caused these issues, not Land Rover created problems.

Now i'm not saying that all was well within the Green oval, but you cannot go around shouting about reliability / build issues without looking at the whole story. My X5 as stated previously is a great car, but like any other manufacturer, I have had some major problems. Now the problems have been addressed as they would be at any other car manufacturer, but isn't it funny how these are not banded around to make the X5 sound like a bad car with problems? Let's face it, there are quite a few issues with suspect build quality, design, lack of off-road ability and the general lack of interest or lack of understanding from the dealerships with these issues. That is never mentioned...it always come back to the same line, don't buy a Land Rover...you will have many dealership visits....not quite true.

The current range of Land Rovers have never had such a good record of reliability. The engines issues have gone (is that because they are using Jaguar engines I wonder?), the build quality has always been excellent and is far superior to my X5 with its strange plastics and unergonomic design, in fact the current range from Land Rover pretty much beats the X5 at it's own game. They have created some very good cars recently and all without the Bavarian influence (in Bangles case, thank god!). Do all of the X5's out there not all use the Land Rover Hill Decent control? Of course they do, it's unrivalled.

Did the X5 undergo massive testing within the harsh Land Rover course in Gaydon, of course it did and failed miserably for the 1st few attempts....there is a story about the 1st shipped in (from the Bavarian mothership) X5 prototype being towed out of the mud from the car park to the start of the course....the car did not even make it onto the course. BMW upped the investment and told Land Rover bods to sort it out...which they did albeit in a limited form. At least it could now travel on grass without getting stuck!

If I could afford a RR Sport Supercharged, then I would be down the dealers tomorrow...alas I can't, so I will plod on with my 4.4 X5. It does the job, albeit in a limited form (I actually use mine for what is it supposed to do, minus the mud aspect for obvious reasons). I think it's a great car and suits me for the time being. But I would buy another RR. There are lots of +'s and -'s to all of these cars, but there is a renewed surge in the LR brand and they have a very strong range now....something that BMW do not being reliant on the X5, the X3 is not even worth mentioning (good grief). I am sure the next version will be a great car, but in this cut throat market place, it is unwise to place all your eggs in one basket!

Well done BMW, a great effort...but one day, maybe...you will create a true 4x4 that can hack the rough stuff...until then....Land Rover will continue to be the best selling 4x4xfar.
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  #2  
Old 02-27-2006, 01:41 PM
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760Lifan 760Lifan is offline
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I don't see a reason why I should disagree...
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  #3  
Old 02-27-2006, 04:16 PM
x54.4blue x54.4blue is offline
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X5

I don't own the X5 to go off road, I would guess that is true for most X5 owners.

I do want 4 wheel drive and the x5 cost less than a 530 wagon.

The x5 handles better than anyother SUV on the road, including the Rover.

The BMW V8 is better than the jag V8.

Bottom line if you don't go off road the X5 is better.
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  #4  
Old 02-28-2006, 01:05 AM
Daniel B Daniel B is offline
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True!
And an Stealth F117 is faster than a jumbo jet but the jumbo jet can handle more people.
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  #5  
Old 02-28-2006, 01:59 AM
Daniel B Daniel B is offline
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One more thing.
I must say that im impressed how the X handle snow.
Here in Sweden we for sure get alot of snow (thats why in example LR and BMW test them here)
Before the X i owned an XC90 great in snow and sand and i didnt expect much from the X5 cause i wanted it for the design and the power.
But i must say the X5 with Xdrive handles better than the XC90 in both snow and sand.
I have no prob at all to tow out my boat and trailer (2000 kg) in deep snow or at the sand beach when i tow it out of the water.
I dont know how the X will handle in deep terain but its not that important to me cause most of us in Sweden use the roads the get to each others.

Last edited by Daniel B; 02-28-2006 at 02:02 AM.
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  #6  
Old 02-28-2006, 08:49 AM
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760Lifan 760Lifan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by x54.4blue
I don't own the X5 to go off road, I would guess that is true for most X5 owners.

I do want 4 wheel drive and the x5 cost less than a 530 wagon.

The x5 handles better than anyother SUV on the road, including the Rover.

The BMW V8 is better than the jag V8.

Bottom line if you don't go off road the X5 is better.
This is why we ordered the X5. There is a public road to get to our supermarket and all other points of interest...
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  #7  
Old 02-28-2006, 09:30 AM
Rob V Rob V is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wmccutcheon
......the X3 is not even worth mentioning (good grief)....
Thank you for that.

As for the LR comments, I hope they have fixed their reliability issues. I dumped my Freelander for the X3 because that thing was a Service Trip on wheels. 13 Trips to the service center in 3 years of ownership (not including the absurdly expensive regular maintenance trips). That being said, my better half still liked it enough that she's waiting for the 07' "LR2".
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  #8  
Old 02-28-2006, 10:24 AM
Dennis215 Dennis215 is offline
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Even though it sounds like a marketing strategy (probably is) but BMW market this truck as an SAV, even they don't expect too many people to take it of road. I got mine because it is so safe. Thought about a LR but a friend of mine rolled one (in Africa) kind of put me off them for life.
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  #9  
Old 02-28-2006, 10:45 AM
SGT Ski SGT Ski is offline
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I have a 91 Range Rover Classic and I have yet to experience the reliablity issues that most complain of. For going off road nothing will ever replace this beast for me. True it rides like a truck and has an underpowered v8, but off road it is unstopable. That is what I got it for camping in hard to reach areas and being able to get out of bad terrain. I drive it in the winter while the 740 hides in the garage.

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  #10  
Old 03-01-2006, 06:10 AM
x54.4blue x54.4blue is offline
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Range Rover vs X5

Bottom line most people don't go off road.

The off road design of the RR results in reduced on road proformance.

The X5 even at the end of its current model is better!
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  #11  
Old 03-01-2006, 06:29 AM
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windsor027 windsor027 is offline
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For me it comes down to where you live. If I lived in an area where off-road was a possibility at least a few times a month the LR is a way to go. since I live in a city the driving dynamics of the X5 4.4i are just plain better than the LR3 that I test drove a couple of months ago. If you need utility, the 7 seating off road capability etc, obviously the LR3 is the way to go. The only "off road" I have experienced with my X5 was when I went to snow shoe mountain last year for skiing and had to go down a gravel road and then up a gravel driveway to the house we rented....man the X5 handled that very nicely . But serious the next couple of days it snowed and the temperature dropped to near 5 degrees and never did the truck have a problem with the steep grades and the ice.

As for the reliabilty issues I think I have had some but nothing mechanical. Cd-changer, NAV system and outside driver's mirror were replaced (the CD changer 3 times ). Engine wise and performance however have been GREAT. Since my lease is up in April I am picking up another X5 after giving the LR3 very serious consideration because of the extra space it has, but every time I looked at it and then got into my X5 I would say to myself why bother.
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  #12  
Old 03-02-2006, 03:20 AM
gulfstream.X5 gulfstream.X5 is offline
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X5 & Rr

The vast majority of 4x4 owners these days do not go off road. The style, power and handling ability of the X5 comes at an off road price. It is horses for courses. Having just completed a 700 mile round trip up to Lockerbie in my X5 4.4, I thought I would have had enough driving for a while. Two days later I find myself thinking of an excuse to take her out again. The car is shear luxury.

BTW, cruising at an average motorway speed of 76 mph, the X5 returned 21.9 mpg.

I noticed last October on a business trip to the UAE (Abu Dhabi), the desert boys are definately buying the RR Sport version. Three years ago you wouldn't see an RR in the M/East. That must mean the reliabilty problems have been sorted, they give their 4x4's an unbelievable bashing (as anyone that has been on one of their Safaris will testify).

a.t.b.

Bob (UK)
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  #13  
Old 06-29-2006, 09:37 AM
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Meiac09 Meiac09 is offline
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yeah, with the BMW 4.4 it should be fine... The new one is way too forded up.
there is a reason they call it mofoco
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  #14  
Old 06-29-2006, 01:29 PM
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quackbury quackbury is offline
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For the price of a RR we got a very nice X5 3.0 to use for "soccer mom" duties and fast comfortable trips to our ski house in all types of foul weather, PLUS a nice, low mileage used Jeep Grand Cherokee to use on the beach and in the really nasty stuff.

If I could "only" have one 4wd, I "might" consider a RR. Thank God I don't have to!

And even if I could type fast, I doubt that I would ever, ever write a post that long!
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  #15  
Old 06-30-2006, 01:02 AM
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e60lover e60lover is offline
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I also realized when I bought my X5 is that BMW also borrowed the two piece liftgate from land rover aswell. You can still see many refrances to BMW in the current Range Rover ie; clown nose, accelerator pedal etc.




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  #16  
Old 06-30-2006, 06:30 AM
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Meiac09 Meiac09 is offline
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don't forget the
-comfort seats
-navigation
-99% of all of the buttons and switchgear
-engine
-key is from an E39 5 series with an oval rather than a roundel...
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  #17  
Old 07-01-2006, 06:10 AM
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Coffeeman Coffeeman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Meiac09
don't forget the
-comfort seats
-navigation
-99% of all of the buttons and switchgear
-engine
-key is from an E39 5 series with an oval rather than a roundel...
Actually, Rover dumped the antique BMW Nav last year, in favor of the Japanese Denso touch screen Nav. Same as used in Lexus & Jag. This is my major complaint with BMW. They seem to so afraid of using Japanese components, I assume because they do not want to enrich the Japanese auto industry. They do, however, use Japanese A/C rotary compressors, as they (the German auto industry) can't seem to figure out how to make them. IMHO, the Germans make great engines, brakes, suspensions, etc, but are really not that talented when it comes to electronics & designing software. I've always believed in sticking to what one does best, and buying from others, what one does not do well.
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Last edited by Coffeeman; 07-01-2006 at 06:11 AM. Reason: sp
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  #18  
Old 07-01-2006, 07:16 AM
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chief3 chief3 is offline
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Dont really care for LR....just doesnt give me that "rise".....Tried testing an X5 4.4 and rode around in my friends. I chose the FX45. Its cheaper, has less trips to the (s)tealership, lower owner costs, and handles extremely well..... has nice bells and whistles... design does polarize folks.....you either hate it or love it..when i walk in the garage in the morning its really tough to choose - the FX45, the E39, or my R1 crotch rocket.....damn life is tough...
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  #19  
Old 07-07-2006, 08:28 AM
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I own a LR, and I will have to agree with many comments; and disagree with some others. I originally wanted a x5 4.4 and almost got one, except for the deal they kept trying to offer me stank. So I looked at my 2nd choice, an LR3 HSE. After owning it for abut a year now I can say that overall I am happy, but it has been in the shop more than it should. It is great offroad, in deep snow, outstanding touch screen NAV, and weighing in at about 6000 lbs it is a tank in a wreck. Now, dislikes: terrible gas mileage (worse than advertised), not good quality compared to bmw, LR dealers are few and far between so service is a not-much-choice situation on where to go, and performance is lacking.

My final word about it is, that LR is good for people who like LR's, and bmw is good for people who like bmw's. They both have issues, and both have plus and minus to ownership.

But, I am going to look really hard at the 2007-08 X5 when my lease is up!
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  #20  
Old 07-25-2006, 06:18 AM
pm_wizard pm_wizard is offline
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I'll pick this up as a newbie. I am going at 5 PM to take delivery of my new X5 4.8iS. I traded in a 2004 Land Rover Discovery II. Why? The LR is a good machine, it has been bone reliable for me, no particular quality issues. It is too big, too heavy, really awful fuel consumption, and I cannot get into 80 percent of the inner city parking garages.

I missed the horsepower and the precision in the steering and handling. The LR did exactly what the dealer promised, the trouble is it turns out that is not what I really wanted it to do. I did get a little tired of looking at plastic panel joins and seeing the wires or insulation behind them, but I knew that going in.

Since the majority of my driving is either city (in ever heavier traffic) or highway, and only a small part on small roads in the country, the X5 will be a much better fit.

However, I thought long and hard about a Range Rover....

John
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  #21  
Old 07-26-2006, 05:38 PM
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HGilmore HGilmore is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coffeeman
Actually, Rover dumped the antique BMW Nav last year, in favor of the Japanese Denso touch screen Nav. Same as used in Lexus & Jag. This is my major complaint with BMW. They seem to so afraid of using Japanese components, I assume because they do not want to enrich the Japanese auto industry. They do, however, use Japanese A/C rotary compressors, as they (the German auto industry) can't seem to figure out how to make them. IMHO, the Germans make great engines, brakes, suspensions, etc, but are really not that talented when it comes to electronics & designing software. I've always believed in sticking to what one does best, and buying from others, what one does not do well.
The nav system in my LR is outstanding. It is one of the main reasons I bought the LR, as I travel alot and do some light to med-duty off-roading.
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  #22  
Old 08-03-2006, 08:45 AM
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Looks like Forbes just shot another arrow in your green oval friend!

http://biz.yahoo.com/special/luxury080306_article1.html
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  #23  
Old 08-06-2006, 10:08 AM
bzsbimmer bzsbimmer is offline
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okay so after reading this post and just having gone through a test drive of the RR sport, I thought I'd chime in with my opinions...
I'll admit the style of the current X5 without the aero package looks somewhat bland compared to the RRS, the overall exterior quality is better. When we were at the RR dealer, I noticed that the handles are made of cheap painted plastic and not the high quality paint as on the bmw's.
some of the cladding was cheap as well... 70K for that! I don't think so
The interior was nice but the fact that the rear seats fold down the way they do and they don't even recline back set us off.
Gas mileage... won't go there

The RRS sounded great and felt great and the Brenbo's - all I can say is wow
but in the end, we could not justify the huge price and subpar tactile feel of the components.
Now if only BMW could improve the damn GPS system it'd be near perfect.
Anyways I think we're going to buy a X5 today
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  #24  
Old 08-08-2006, 09:06 AM
slvr bullet slvr bullet is offline
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Better beat them down on the X5 price since the new one was released today.
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  #25  
Old 08-08-2006, 09:09 AM
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Meiac09 Meiac09 is offline
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what the **** are you talking about?
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