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E39 (1997 - 2003)
The BMW 5-Series (E39 chassis) was introduced in the United States as a 1997 model year car and lasted until the 2004 when the E60 chassis was released. The United States saw several variations including the 525i, 528i, 530i and 540i. -- View the E39 Wiki

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  #1  
Old 03-04-2006, 06:34 PM
Lois822 Lois822 is offline
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Precertified Lemon

I bought a used precertified BMW 528I. I did the car fax and had an precertified warrenty through BMW.

It expired in December 2005. I took the car in numerous times while it was still covered. Seems BMW can never find an error until after the warrenty runs out.

I have had......my car to the dealer almost 3 times a week.

Traction Control light issues-replaced sensor.
Oil light on dash defective.
Right front wheel sensor went bad.
Idle control valve.
Idle control pulley which was recently upgraded so my extended warrenty wont cover it.
Idle pulley belts.
Power steering lines $449.00 worth for a slightly leaking hose. They told the warrenty company and the warrenty company threatened to cancel my policy. I never knew.
Thermostat.
The passenger side door lock electronic.
The key $149.00 I had to have it towed to the dealer. Since my spare key was for someone else's car. They told me they do not have to provide you with 2 working keys.
Brakes rear $410.00
Then the antilock brake sensor, brake light and traction control light came on the next day. Defective.
Back light sensor.
Sensor in drivers seat.
Oh I forgot the 6 month old battery was dead.

I feel like I am driving a pin ball machine with all the lights flashing in my face.

Then they all went out the fuse blew to the radio.

I go back Wednesday (hopefully they will fix it) I now need a Vanos replacement at a tune of over $1000.00

I am finding my BMW experience to be a very bad one.

WHY WHY WHY.........the car is very clean and well maintained. Oh yeah I forgot cant get too dirty if it never runs.

I have owned it 6 months and have had it towed twice...................nice job BMW


Has anyone else had these issues. I am almost broke. I did ask about trading it in. They dont want it.
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  #2  
Old 03-04-2006, 06:54 PM
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chuck92103 chuck92103 is offline
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Man that really blows.

My patience would be worn out by now and I would find a place to dump the car.

Sorry you had all these issues. Buy far more than average I would say.

Last edited by chuck92103; 03-04-2006 at 07:03 PM.
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  #3  
Old 03-04-2006, 07:05 PM
Lois822 Lois822 is offline
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Several people I work with have various BMW's styles and year.

I seem to be the only one with all the problems. Its very depressing. I cant understand why the dealer just shrugged me off. They get reimbursed while it was under warrenty.

I am almost afraid to get another BMW. I have only had it since the end of last May.
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  #4  
Old 03-04-2006, 07:39 PM
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Mister Chow Mister Chow is offline
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I'm really sorry to hear about your problems. I bought my car on the recommendation of an old friend of mine from my high school days. He was a technician (mechanic) for a BMW dealership before opening up his own shop. He was a really trusted friend and mechanic, I made a lot of decisions based solely on his advice and he was always proven right.

One thing that he told me is that by buying your car from a BMW dealer gives you the option of working your way up the chain of command. Keep all of your records, make copies even just to be safe and start making calls to the higher ups. BMW of North America is a good place to start.

It's disappointing that they've treated you so shabbily. Good luck and sorry about your car.
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  #5  
Old 03-06-2006, 08:09 PM
Lois822 Lois822 is offline
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Bmw

Owning a BMW was like a dream for me. Now its a nightmare.

I did meet the owner. I had a friend looking for a Dodge Ram 3500 dualie loaded. They also sell Dodge. My car was great until it got cold and the last week of the precertified warrenty and then all hell broke loose.

They finally had the top mechanic look at it. I am pretty ticked. The service manager knows I had it there several times. I only have the initial complaint. Each time I went back they pulled it in quick and said no errors.

It goes back Wedsnesday for the warrenty company to meet with BMW and get to the bottom of it all.
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  #6  
Old 03-06-2006, 08:25 PM
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bimmerd00d bimmerd00d is offline
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Go to an indie dealer and get a 2nd opinion on what the car actually needs. Our 528i went nuts, and it was simply a cam position sensor causing the engine to run like crap....and it sure souinded like a bad VANOS unit. The car will throw the VANOS code with a bad CPS.
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  #7  
Old 03-08-2006, 05:26 PM
Lois822 Lois822 is offline
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Sos

Its worse than you can possibly imagine. They warrenty company got tired of paying and sent a rep to BMW to challenge the Vanos issue. The warrenty company claims that BMW was reluctant to pull the valve cover off. They found the engine totally built up with sludge. I am awaiting photos to post. You would have to use a chisel to get the vanos off. It looks as if someone turned on a fry pan and let the oil burn up. I had this car for 7 months took it to BMW several times complaining of stalling. They kept telling me nothing was wrong. I had the oil changed with Synthetic twice in 4000 miles.

Both are refusing to fix the car unless I pay 100%. BMW said this car should have never been precertified and was sold to me on false pretenses.

BMW said the valve covers are pulled as normal part of the precertification on the car. They told the warrenty company there is no way I could have possibly done this to the car.

I am currently looking for a lawyer. The warrenty company is supposed to call me tomorrow. I would have never replaced the brakes, power steering ect if I knew the engine was shot form abuse.
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  #8  
Old 03-08-2006, 05:51 PM
joyfret joyfret is offline
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Good Christ, man, I've had some hellish incidents(it seemed until now),
but compared to what you've listed above, mines were just a walk in the park.
I am sorry that you had to go through all this and hope you will get some
sort of compensation. Good luck.
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  #9  
Old 03-08-2006, 06:05 PM
Bix Bix is offline
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Boy your nightmare makes my dead batteries a cake walk. I have to say I had an awful experience with CPO as well. It cause me to think that CPO is pretty bogus. I bough a CPO 2002 325iT and the day I picked it up the check engine light was on. It was delivered to me with warped front brake rotors. The dealer quickly replaced brakes and O2 sensor and I drove off. Within ten miles the check engine light was on, within 300 miles poorly bolted undercarriage parts were shooting off the bottom of the car. (Cover for brake distribution block).

I took the car back and got my money back. My current BMW is also supposedly CPO, but every deficiency on the car is magically not covered by the warranty. I've got a sun roof which doesn't close correctly, nope. need a tie rod end nope, etc.

I hope you get an engine rebuild at the very least, how many miles on this little darling of yours?
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  #10  
Old 03-08-2006, 06:08 PM
Lois822 Lois822 is offline
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I was at a loss for words when I saw the engine. I would not repair it either if I was the warrenty company. BMW will not even take it as a trade unless I pay to fix it.

I cant even trade it in somewhere else at a BMW dealer because it will show I never fixed the vanos.

I need to figure out how to find an attorney to get to the bottom of all of this mess.

Before I bought this car I called a random BMW dealer just to verifie that it was pre certified. They looked up the VIN number and said it was fine dont worry. I used car fax also before buying it.
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  #11  
Old 03-08-2006, 06:11 PM
Lois822 Lois822 is offline
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This car had 71500 miles on it and now has 87000.

I urge every one who even remotely thinks of buying a pre certified car to make them pull the valve cover gasket and show you the top side of the engine or put it in writing.

They pretty much had an excuse for all the CPO issues by stating sorry we did not get an error.
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  #12  
Old 03-08-2006, 06:36 PM
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SARAFIL SARAFIL is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lois822
This car had 71500 miles on it and now has 87000.

I urge every one who even remotely thinks of buying a pre certified car to make them pull the valve cover gasket and show you the top side of the engine or put it in writing.

They pretty much had an excuse for all the CPO issues by stating sorry we did not get an error.
At 71,500 miles, it was not a fresh CPO car... (it wasn't just put through the CPO process), it most likely was a car that was previously sold as a CPO car and then they sold it to you as the 3rd ower with "remainder of certification". In this case, they might not necessarily go through the whole car since they are not CPO'ing it again. It's not the same as if you were the original CPO purchaser.
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  #13  
Old 03-08-2006, 06:45 PM
john72 john72 is offline
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Wow, I feel for you. Your situation really sucks. I had a precertified 2001 330i that was in the shop monthly for the past ten months. I finally dumped that f*cker for a new car. As a matter of fact, I picked it up from the shop on a Saturday and drove right next door to the sales office to trade it in. Gotta love warranties while they last. It is scary when they run out. You lose that safety net.
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  #14  
Old 03-08-2006, 07:07 PM
Lois822 Lois822 is offline
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Dealer wont even take it as a trade.

Car Fax showed it was owned by the dealer 1st sold 1-2000

4-9-2003 owned by the dealer again. BMW claims pre certified on 2-2003?. Miles 42,494

9-9-2003 Resold..........42,515

9-7-2004 back in dealer inventory 71,181 and sold to the car dealer I bought it from 2-18-05.
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  #15  
Old 03-08-2006, 07:15 PM
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AsianImage AsianImage is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SARAFIL
At 71,500 miles, it was not a fresh CPO car... (it wasn't just put through the CPO process), it most likely was a car that was previously sold as a CPO car and then they sold it to you as the 3rd ower with "remainder of certification". In this case, they might not necessarily go through the whole car since they are not CPO'ing it again. It's not the same as if you were the original CPO purchaser.
I am so sorry to hear your story...but I have to agree with Sarafil. If you bought it at that mileage you are definitely not the original CPO and got a "remainder of" CPO. When that is done, I dont even know if BMW will even re-check it. That really sucks.

I bought my 2001 E39 CPO. It had 42K miles, 3 year lease trade in. I bought it in 2003. So it all checked out. I was the second person to own that car. I even had the original window sticker all manuals etc. I have had nothing but great CPO service. My radiator blowing out, the dash pixels etc. The car is at 58.8K now and I just took it in for the 60K Maintenance 2. Cost me $1200 not under CPO because it needs rear brakes and new control arm bushings. I really believe in CPO and think it helps.

I hope you can find an attorney to at least help you draft a letter to the Warranty Co or BMW or both to let them know they need to make good on this car.

Will the owner at least take it back and sell you something else? I wish you the best.
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  #16  
Old 03-08-2006, 07:18 PM
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AsianImage AsianImage is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lois822
Dealer wont even take it as a trade.

Car Fax showed it was owned by the dealer 1st sold 1-2000

4-9-2003 owned by the dealer again. BMW claims pre certified on 2-2003?. Miles 42,494

9-9-2003 Resold..........42,515

9-7-2004 back in dealer inventory 71,181 and sold to the car dealer I bought it from 2-18-05.
That explains A LOT. This really sucks...

the 4/9/2003 date with 42,494 miles seems like the legit CPO status. Ever since then..the car may have been abused and not even taken in for service during the correct times.
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  #17  
Old 03-08-2006, 07:32 PM
Lois822 Lois822 is offline
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BMW said they think who ever owned it in the last year did not change the oil ever.

I just had the brakes replaced last week $408.00 and power steering lines $449.00.

It would have been nice then when they told me it needed a vanos and scheduled it for this week that the engine was shot.

I also paid for an idle control valve, idle control pulley, thermostat in Feb and still kept stalling.

Now I know why.
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  #18  
Old 03-08-2006, 07:56 PM
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SARAFIL SARAFIL is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lois822
BMW said they think who ever owned it in the last year did not change the oil ever.

I just had the brakes replaced last week $408.00 and power steering lines $449.00.

It would have been nice then when they told me it needed a vanos and scheduled it for this week that the engine was shot.

I also paid for an idle control valve, idle control pulley, thermostat in Feb and still kept stalling.

Now I know why.

BMW really owes you very little here. They are totally justified to deny coverage if they can show the car was not maintained. You really need to shift your focus to your extended warranty company and the used car lot that sold you the car. The used car lot should have looked the car over the make sure it was ok. BMW has nothing to do with your purchase, so they're not responsible. Why not put some pressure on the used car dealer that sold you the car, and (what appears to be) the bad warranty provider that you signed up with?
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  #19  
Old 03-08-2006, 08:29 PM
Lois822 Lois822 is offline
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I did and BMW spoke with the used car dealer today also and told him this car was a bomb. He told BMW tough as far as he is concerned I never changed the oil even though the warranty company has proof by BMW. He also maintains he is innocent because the NY BMW dealer told him it was pre certified and I had various work done by BMW under that warranty. Which I did.

Short of it is. BMW admits the motor is trash claims no one looked at it though I took it there almost 3 times a week with stalling issues. Claimed the vanos was just figured out. I had the owner cornered and he made them check it.

BMW said that stalling problem could be anything. They originally told me it was a plugged fuel line and also charged me for that.

The warranty company has a point. This engine is trash. It should have never been passed. Do they have an obligation to me. I think so. I also think BMW does for working on it and charging me $50.00 and putting it under pre certified.
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Old 03-09-2006, 05:46 PM
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SARAFIL SARAFIL is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lois822

The warranty company has a point. This engine is trash. It should have never been passed. Do they have an obligation to me. I think so. I also think BMW does for working on it and charging me $50.00 and putting it under pre certified.

Please stop for a minute and digest what I have said. I'm not going to go back and forth with you because I just don't think you get it.

BMW "Certified" this car in 2003. That process requires the selling dealer to do a complete inspection and reconditioning process in order for the car to qualify. At that time in 2003, this car clearly qualified and met the requirements to be sold as CPO.

After that fact, there is no guarantee of the condition the vehicle will have in the future. Once it was purchased CPO, BMW has no control over what the new owner does (or does not) do with the car. They can't give a lifetime guarantee that whoever owns that car will take care of it.

In your case, your problem is that you made the wrong conclusion when they said the car was "previously certified". That really means that it had been certified in the past. It did not mean that they're standing behind the condition of the car at this point in time. The car might still be under warranty, but that does not mean that they will repair items that have been damaged because of abuse.

Your problem here is with a) the dealer that sold you this car... they are ultimately the ones that should have inspected the car again before they sold it to you, b) the fact that you did not have the car inspected by your own mechanic prior to purchase, c) the extended warranty company that is not giving you the coverage you paid for, and d) the BMW dealer that might not have diagnosed the problem correctly on previous visits. BMW of North America has zero obligation to you other than to provide coverage under the CPO warranty for qualified repairs. In your case, the car was abused and does not qualify.

I hope you understand this distinction...
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  #21  
Old 03-09-2006, 07:12 PM
Lois822 Lois822 is offline
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I did not have any problem explaining it to an attorney. He was very interested when he saw that BMW was paying for the claims on my car in June 05 through Nov 05 until they could push it over on the extended warranty. BMW's records state covered under the pre certified warranty. I am glad I document everything.

The dealer I bought it from is advertising as authorized to sell pre certified BMW's. He also states on his web page to check the timing chain or belt which was apparent he did not verified through BMW's qualified mechanics and the insurance representative.

I am just an engineer not a mechanic. I am hoping the pro's can get to the bottom of this.

Please stop for a minute and digest what I have said. I'm not going to go back and forth with you because I just don't think you get it.

I think I have digested enough actually and its about time to purge. I know what you are saying. This may be a case of insurance fraud and moving junk cars for a NY dealer.
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  #22  
Old 03-09-2006, 07:17 PM
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you got VM Lois.
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  #23  
Old 03-09-2006, 08:47 PM
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It would be great to get a new motor under warranty.

They do not pull of any valve covers for a CPO inspection. They do the minimum to get the car clean and call it a day. I totally understand how you feel because I'm in the same situation. I have saved the invoices which states that I have told them there is sludge in the engine and they responded ON PAPER "sludge in engine is due to deposits in the oil normally found when the oil is not changed enough. advise client for oil service" the mileage on the car was 41,000 and I bought the car when it was at 38,000. No dealer wants to do anything about the sludge and they claim it to be normal, that is until I'm out of the warranty period.

PLEASE keep us informed of how everything goes, I'd like to join the battle
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Old 03-09-2006, 09:25 PM
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You have my sympathy, man. If there's a lesson here, it's that you have to be VERY careful buying used cars--what you get and who you get it from--especially a 5-year-old car with 71k miles. A CPO dealership car is no guarantee you're not getting a lemon, it's just a guarantee you'll get two years of repairs thrown in with it (and, these repairs aren't really free--you pay for them with the CPO premium).

When I got my 530, I spent three months searching and easily looked at 100 different cars. According to CARFAX, I ran 78 reports during my subscription. A report showing the last owner put 30k miles on this 528 in one year would have killed the sale for me in an instant. I don't mean to pick on you, but the information you needed for this sale was out there, and I think people should use it.

If you get out of this in one piece and still want a BMW, I'd recommend getting one from a specialized BMW-only dealer, and getting a copy of the full vehicle service history report so you know exactly whether it's been maintained and what repairs have been done.
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  #25  
Old 03-10-2006, 06:46 PM
Lois822 Lois822 is offline
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Good news is I did get an attorney to take the case. He does not even consider a case unless he knows he will win. It is no charge for me. PPPhhhheeeewwww.

Breech of warranty, false advertising will work. He said I have a solid case and I am so happy. I actually jumped up and down and yelled at work.......Woohoo....

What I learned.........you can not go after the lemon law for anything over 6 years or 60,000.00 miles pre certified or not. You can file with the Attorney Generals office.

He is going after the so called dealership who said he is selling for a BMW dealer. He is also going after the warranty Co. I will find out monday.

Thank god I keep such good notes!!!
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