Welcome to Bimmerfest -- The #1 Online Community for BMW related information! Please enjoy the discussion forums below and share your experiences with the 200,000 current, new and past BMW owners. The forums are broken out by car model and into other special interest sections such as BMW European Delivery and a special forum to voice your questions to the many BMW dealers on the site to assist our members!

Please follow the links below to help get you started!

Go Back   Bimmerfest - BMW Forums > BMW Model Discussions > 3 Series & 4 Series > E90/E91/E92/E93 (2006 - 2013)

E90/E91/E92/E93 (2006 - 2013)
The E9X is the 4th evolution of the BMW 3 series including a highly tuned twin turbo 335i variant pushing out 300hp and 300 ft. lbs. of torque. BMW continues to show that it sets the bar for true driving performance! -- View the E9X Wiki

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 04-02-2006, 12:19 AM
bmwexecutive's Avatar
bmwexecutive bmwexecutive is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: West Coast
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 597
Mein Auto: 2013 ActiveHybrid 3
Why must you hold the brake down before starting the engine?

Just curious: why is it required that you hold the brake pedal down before pushing the start engine button if BMW employs the new Start-Off Assistant feature that prevents your car from rolling backwards when starting it on an incline?
__________________
Ordering 2014 Z4 s35is
Reply With Quote
Advertisement
  #2  
Old 04-02-2006, 12:38 AM
anon's Avatar
anon anon is offline
**** Yeah
Location: Downtown Los Angeles
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 220
Mein Auto: '04 330Ci
I don't.

I press in the CLUTCH.
__________________
--
anon(ymous)
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 04-02-2006, 01:56 AM
speedyj88 speedyj88 is offline
Registered User
Location: Los Angeles
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 15
Mein Auto: 2006 330i
It's just a way of telling the car you want to turn the engine on, rather than just the electronics. Plus, you're going to have to press the brake pedal to switch into gear anyways.
__________________
2006 330i - TiAg/Black - Steptronic - Sport - Premium - Heated Seats - Rear Fold Down - Sat Prep

Next car is a 6MT for sure!

If anyone has suggestions for a GSM phone that will work wonderfully with the bluetooth in the car, PLEASE let me know.
So far considering: SE S710a
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 04-02-2006, 03:04 AM
bmwexecutive's Avatar
bmwexecutive bmwexecutive is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: West Coast
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 597
Mein Auto: 2013 ActiveHybrid 3
Quote:
Originally Posted by speedyj88
It's just a way of telling the car you want to turn the engine on, rather than just the electronics. Plus, you're going to have to press the brake pedal to switch into gear anyways.
That's true.
__________________
Ordering 2014 Z4 s35is
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 04-02-2006, 04:32 AM
BringsMeWomen BringsMeWomen is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: NY
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,189
Send a message via AIM to BringsMeWomen
Mein Auto: e90
Also, if you didnt have the brake button, then its hard to distinguish whether you want to shut off the car or start the engine when it is in the mode where the electronics plays after engine shut off.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 04-02-2006, 07:49 AM
TD TD is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Not here
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Posts: 1,476
Mein Auto: E90 330i 6-spd
Quote:
Originally Posted by anon
I don't.

I press in the CLUTCH.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 04-02-2006, 07:58 AM
sunra sunra is offline
Registered User
Location: Chelsea, QC
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 95
Mein Auto: 2006 325i
I never bother with the brake. Just press the clutch, hit the button, rev the enginee and bam... away you go! I figure brakes are used for stopping, not starting.
__________________
______________
E90 325i (2006)
E46 325i (2003) - retired

Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 04-02-2006, 08:20 AM
JayK330's Avatar
JayK330 JayK330 is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Houston
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 650
Mein Auto: 328/335 debate wages war
Wow, I didn't know pushing in the brake was such a difficult task.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 04-02-2006, 09:03 AM
bmwexecutive's Avatar
bmwexecutive bmwexecutive is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: West Coast
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 597
Mein Auto: 2013 ActiveHybrid 3
Quote:
Originally Posted by JayK330
Wow, I didn't know pushing in the brake was such a difficult task.
Who said it was difficult? I was only asking why you needed to do it.
__________________
Ordering 2014 Z4 s35is
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 04-02-2006, 09:08 AM
chuck92103's Avatar
chuck92103 chuck92103 is offline
Banned
Location: Socal
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 8,650
Mein Auto: 2005 BMW 645Ci
Quote:
Originally Posted by bmwexecutive
Just curious: why is it required that you hold the brake pedal down before pushing the start engine button if BMW employs the new Start-Off Assistant feature that prevents your car from rolling backwards when starting it on an incline?
Way back in the late 1980's there was an incident with the Audi 5000s in which a lady was parked in the garage and started the car. She claimed the car started in drive and launched forward into the wall of the house. Several more reports popped up and lawsuits started.

It seemed some computer gremlins caused unintended acceleration and multiple deaths and hundreds of accidents were reported.

http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/script...922763&invol=1

Last edited by chuck92103; 04-02-2006 at 09:15 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 04-02-2006, 09:59 AM
BiggerTwin's Avatar
BiggerTwin BiggerTwin is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: New York
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 126
Mein Auto: 2012 335i xDrive coupe
Quote:
Originally Posted by chuck92103
It seemed some computer gremlins caused unintended acceleration and multiple deaths and hundreds of accidents were reported.
Actually, the final DOT investigation revealed that there was no such thing as sudden unintended acceleration. The cause of the accidents were loose nuts behind the wheel The drivers stepped on the gas instead of the brake and the cars, not surprisingly, went forward. 60 Minutes did a nice report on it and showed that if your foot was on the brake the car wouldn't move even if you floored the gas pedal. Also, none of these incidents occurred with manual transmissions.

Alan
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 04-02-2006, 01:18 PM
MysticBlue MysticBlue is offline
They call 'em rigs here
Location: Eastern Oregon
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 857
Mein Auto: '09 E92.
Yup, even though the problem is invariable a loose nut behind the wheel, having to press the brake before a car (with auto transmission) will start is pretty common across the industry now. Thank the lawyers. It might be a billion to one chance that the interlock that prevents starting while in gear would fail and allow starting while in gear, but that's enough to make the liability lawyers worry. Just one example of how our legal system affects every aspect of our lives, making nearly everything less convenient and/or more expensive.
__________________
09 E92, IB, DCT.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 04-02-2006, 01:59 PM
andy_thomas andy_thomas is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: London
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 2,585
Mein Auto: 318i
Quote:
Originally Posted by chuck92103
Way back in the late 1980's there was an incident with the Audi 5000s in which a lady was parked in the garage and started the car. She claimed the car started in drive and launched forward into the wall of the house. Several more reports popped up and lawsuits started.

It seemed some computer gremlins caused unintended acceleration and multiple deaths and hundreds of accidents were reported.
You misspelt "mindless morons" as "computer gremlins". Easy mistake.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 04-02-2006, 02:43 PM
URL8's Avatar
URL8 URL8 is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: New Jersey
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 87
Mein Auto: E90 330i
Quote:
Originally Posted by andy_thomas
You misspelt "mindless morons" as "computer gremlins". Easy mistake.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 04-02-2006, 03:51 PM
Robert A Robert A is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Los Angeles
 
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 4,862
Mein Auto: BMW 535d
It goes back to the Audi days of unintended acceleration. They want an extra safety measure to prevent starting the car in gear. If you foot is already on the brake, it'll be harder for you to claim that the car simply lurched forward when you first started it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bmwexecutive
Just curious: why is it required that you hold the brake pedal down before pushing the start engine button if BMW employs the new Start-Off Assistant feature that prevents your car from rolling backwards when starting it on an incline?
__________________
Robert A
BMWCCA Member



Current
2014 535d, M Sport, Space Gray/Mocha Nappa
Prior
2007 530i, White/Black, 6MT
2001 530i, Orient Blue/Beige, 5MT
1994 325is, White/Black 5MT
1984 325e, White/Black 5MT
1983 318i, Delphin/Beige 4MT
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 04-03-2006, 03:05 AM
cntlaw's Avatar
cntlaw cntlaw is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Hong Kong
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 530
Mein Auto: C55 W203, 330i E90
Quote:
Originally Posted by speedyj88
It's just a way of telling the car you want to turn the engine on, rather than just the electronics. Plus, you're going to have to press the brake pedal to switch into gear anyways.
Agreed.
Another possibilty is to ensure your car would be released in case your car was in D gear.
__________________
CNTLAW - MY.Oct.2005, launched 3.Feb.2006, 330i E90 Jet Black/Black Leathers/Aluminium Chrome Trims/Steptronic/Active Steering; Blackline Taillamps; RAYS G-GAMES 99B Gunmental 19" 8.5(35)/9.5(40)l; BFGoodrich g-Force Profiler 235/35, 265/30; Bilstein PSS9 Coilover Suspension; Escort Passport X50; Belkin iPOD Aux-In Adaptor; OEM Carbon Fibre Lips; OEM Shark Fin; Next:HID Osram D1S 6000K, PIAA Ring Marker, Fog PIAA H11 4700K; OEM CF Spoiler, OEM rear Side Sunshade
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 04-03-2006, 03:34 AM
BiggerTwin's Avatar
BiggerTwin BiggerTwin is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: New York
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 126
Mein Auto: 2012 335i xDrive coupe
A Little More History

While I never saw this in the media and never looked closely at an Audi 5000, I was told by someone who used to work for them that the gas and brake were both narrow vertical pedals while American cars had wide horizontal brake pedals and narrow vertical gas pedals. The similarity of the pedals may have contributed to less attentive driver’s making mistakes. This whole incident happened before Starbucks, cup holders and cell phones. It is hard to imagine the carnage these distracted drivers would cause today

One positive thing that came out of this was full maintenance. Audi introduced it as a way to attract buyers back to the brand who were wary of the bogus unintended acceleration scare.

Alan
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 04-03-2006, 03:44 AM
bmwexecutive's Avatar
bmwexecutive bmwexecutive is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: West Coast
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 597
Mein Auto: 2013 ActiveHybrid 3
Quote:
Originally Posted by BiggerTwin
While I never saw this in the media and never looked closely at an Audi 5000, I was told by someone who used to work for them that the gas and brake were both narrow vertical pedals while American cars had wide horizontal brake pedals and narrow vertical gas pedals. The similarity of the pedals may have contributed to less attentive driver’s making mistakes.

Heh. This reminds me of a time I was driving my dad's Jeep Grand Cherokee and I was backing out of a parking space. I went to hit the brake to then switch it in drive but the brake wouldn't activate so I pushed it harder.

Turns out my foot was on the gas and because my dad's jeep has that new 5.7L 330HP HEMI in it I went about 0-30 in reverse in about a second. Haha. Luckily, no one was behind me and I quickly hit the real brake. Heh.
__________________
Ordering 2014 Z4 s35is
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 04-05-2006, 11:35 AM
haaskivi1 haaskivi1 is offline
Registered User
Location: charlotte
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 5
Mein Auto: 2005 330i
another reason the e46 is a more user friendly car

It is an annoying task compared to a standard key. Sure you will eventually get used to it but why should you have to. Among others, this was just another reason whyI went back to the E 46.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 04-05-2006, 01:04 PM
motor_werke motor_werke is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: massachusetts
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 405
Mein Auto: 2008 335 coupe
If anyone has any more info (concise) on the Audi 5000 deal, I'd be interested. I'll have to do some searching. I've heard about it, but it really seems like user stupidity, but I want to know the facts before I presume anything.

It seems to be the norm now, that if you screw up while driving, its the cars fault!
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 04-05-2006, 01:58 PM
ic's Avatar
ic ic is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Toronto, Canada
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 507
Mein Auto: 06 325i SP
Quote:
Originally Posted by cntlaw
Agreed.
Another possibilty is to ensure your car would be released in case your car was in D gear.
I believe you can only start the car in P or N only. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 04-05-2006, 02:09 PM
andy_thomas andy_thomas is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: London
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 2,585
Mein Auto: 318i
Quote:
Originally Posted by motor_werke
If anyone has any more info (concise) on the Audi 5000 deal, I'd be interested. I'll have to do some searching. I've heard about it, but it really seems like user stupidity, but I want to know the facts before I presume anything.
A piece from the Telegraph a while ago on carmaker nightmares summed it up thus:

"The phenomenon was not new. Indeed the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration had investigated of 2700 cases of unintended acceleration from over a dozen marques and every one concluded that driver error was to blame. So Audi stuck its ground - it did not believe its cars would suddenly go mad and there was evidence, such as bent accelerator pedals, that customers were actually standing on the wrong pedal. But if ever there was a Pyrrhic victory, this was it. Consumer confidence in Audi evaporated, sales dived and took years to return. It seems the customer is always right, even when the stupid schmuck is demonstrably wrong."

And in case you're not sure about the British press (and I wouldn't blame you), here's the US's very own WSJ from 1989. It's not concise, but concise isn't appropriate. You need the detail, if you want to be informed:

THE WALL STREET JOURNAL MONDAY, DECEMBER 18,1989

"If you're the kind of driver who sometimes has trouble finding the brakes in your car, you should be driving an Audi. Last month, in 35mph crash tests of an airbage-quipped Audi 100, the mannequin in the driver's seat suffered the lowest crash force ever recorded by the National Highway and Traffic Safety Administration, NHTSA, in this kind of test.

And yet, according to the Center for Auto Safety--a self-styled public interest organization that sells its research to plaintiffs' lawyers--the Audi 100's predecessor, the Audi 5000, was as deadly as the Audi 100 is safe. It exhibited "sudden acceleration," a fatal propensity to take off at full speed even as the terrified driver rammed the brake pedal to the floor.

CBS's "60 Minutes" ran a devastating expose of the Audi 5000. Audi customers fled. Lawyers cashed in. The American public was saved, yet again, from the perils of technology gone awry. Only one little-noticed footnote remains at the end: There was nothing wrong with the car.

The Audi story is by now, dismally familiar. "Sudden acceleration" accidents occurred when the transmission was shifted out of "park." The driver always insisted he was standing on the brake, but after the crash the brakes always worked perfectly. A disproportionate number of accidents involved drivers new to the vehicle. When an idiotproof shift was installed so that a driver could not shift out of park if his foot was on the accelerator, reports of sudden acceleration plummeted.

But a story to the effect that cars accelerate when drivers step on the accelerator doesn't boost television ratings or jury verdicts. And driver error is understandably hard to accept for a mother whose errant foot killed her six-year-old son. So with the help of such mothers, CAS and CBS knitted together a tissue of conjecture, insinuation and calumny. The car's cruise control was at fault. Or maybe the electronic idle. Or perhaps the transmission.

"60 Minutes," in one of journalism's most shameful hours, gave air time in November 1986 to a selfstyled expert who drilled a hole in an Audi transmission and pumped in air at high pressure. Viewers didn't see the drill or the pump—just the doctored car blasting off like a rocket.

Junk science of this kind moves fast. Real science takes time to catch up with this kind of intellectual cockroach and squash it. Government agencies in Japan and Canada, as well as in the U.S., conducted painstaking studies. The Canadians who are franker about such things, called it "driver error." In America, where we can't attach blame to anyone whose name doesn't end with Inc., it was called "pedal misapplication." And unsurprisingly, it's not just Audi drivers who commit it.

So, in the long run, the truth does come out. In the short run, the lawyers swoop in. Most soon recognized that they couldn't prove any defect in the Audi's engine or transmission. But our liability system today is a master of the bait and switch—the switch was to "pedal misdesign."

No doubt about it, the original Audi like other European cars, placed brake and accelerator pedals slightly closer together than is usual in many American designs. This allows the good driver to move faster between the pedals in highspeed emergency. Perhaps it also makes it easier for the bad driver to mix up the pedals. Nobody, including NHTSA, is quite sure whether, overall, the old Audi pedal placement was marginally better or marginally worse. End of case? Hardly. With Audi shellshocked and vulnerable from the earlier junkengineering claims, the pedal placement lawyers moved in.

The "60 Minutes" story starred a mother who had run over her six-year-old son. On the air, she insisted that she had had her foot on the brake the whole time. When her $48 million claim came to court in Akron, Ohio, in June 1988 the investigating police officer and witnesses at the scene testified that after the accident the distraught mother had admitted that her foot had slipped off the brake. The jury found no defect in the car.

Trial judges in New Jersey and New York have overturned badpedaldesign verdicts against Audi. Last July a federal court in Pennsylvania issued a summary judgment for Audi. And that should have been the end of Audi's legal troubles.

Except that it wasn't. An appellate court reinstated the New Jersey verdict: an appeal is pending. The New York case was settled before retrial. A California jury returned a $3.5 million verdict against Audi on a pedalplacement theory, after the plaintiff's lawyers abandoned a sudden acceleration claim. Another appeal is pending. Today, Audi is reportedly defending itself in more than 140 different suits, and damage claims are in excess of $5 billion. Not that the aggregate claims have the slightest connection with reality, of course. At one point, a single demented plaintiff in New York filed identical $5 billion claims in both federal and state courts; both have since been thrown out.

How about the U.S. government safety report? In July, 1989, shortly after the report was released, Audi ran a hopeful advertisement titled "Case Closed." "The case is not closed," responded Robert Lisco, a Chicago plaintiffs' attorney. "Those guys must be smoking something." "60 Minutes" never even acknowledged the final U.S. findings, it did grudgingly note identical conclusions of an earlier, blue-ribbon study, and then proceeded to rebroadcast inflammatory videos from the earlier segment. CAS denounced the government study and cheerfully cranked up yet another sudden acceleration smear, this one against Cadillacs. Lawyers for the "Audi Victims Network" brazenly declared that the report strengthened their clients' cases.

They may be right. The largest suit now pending against Audi is an Illinois class action, ostensibly representing 300,000 or so Audi 5000 owners. The charge? That because of the sudden acceleration controversy, Audis have lost resale value.

Yes, sudden acceleration is real. A powerful engine kicks into gear without warning or reason. It crashes through a respected business, ruins the livelihood of hundreds of innocent dealers, and devalues the property of hundreds of thousands of bewildered car owners. The windfall goes to those who destroy and then successfully blame others for the wreckage. For heaven's sake, where are the brakes?"
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 04-05-2006, 04:30 PM
TD TD is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Not here
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Posts: 1,476
Mein Auto: E90 330i 6-spd
Quote:
Originally Posted by ic
I believe you can only start the car in P or N only. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
Well, I usually start mine in 1st as that's the gear I generally leave it in when I park.
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 04-05-2006, 04:49 PM
Optimus Prime's Avatar
Optimus Prime Optimus Prime is offline
le Boss
Location: peoria, IL
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 2,925
Mein Auto: VW Golf TDI
Quote:
Originally Posted by TD
Well, I usually start mine in 1st as that's the gear I generally leave it in when I park.
__________________
"Believe those who are seeking the truth; doubt those who find it." -Andre Gide
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 04-05-2006, 05:04 PM
cwsqbm's Avatar
cwsqbm cwsqbm is offline
I do'nt make mistakes.
Location: Somewhere in the aether
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 10,464
Mein Auto: Quadricycle
Quote:
Originally Posted by bmwexecutive
Heh. This reminds me of a time I was driving my dad's Jeep Grand Cherokee and I was backing out of a parking space. I went to hit the brake to then switch it in drive but the brake wouldn't activate so I pushed it harder.

Turns out my foot was on the gas and because my dad's jeep has that new 5.7L 330HP HEMI in it I went about 0-30 in reverse in about a second. Haha. Luckily, no one was behind me and I quickly hit the real brake. Heh.
Once, in high school was driving through a very thick fog at night at maybe 25 mph (too fast for conditions actually). I had my left foot over the brake pedal, just in case. So, after a mile, I came out of the low area and the fog cleared. I went to push in the clutch and was slammed forward as the tires locked. I thought something broke on the car until I realized my left foot had the brake pedal pressed clear to floor. Given that this happened very shortly after the Audi incidents, I sympathized with them.
__________________
.................................................. ................................Garrison-Jenner 2016 .................................................. ..........................................
Reply With Quote
Reply

See More Related BMW Stories


Forum Navigation
Go Back   Bimmerfest - BMW Forums > BMW Model Discussions > 3 Series & 4 Series > E90/E91/E92/E93 (2006 - 2013)
Today's Posts Search
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On



Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
323/325 328/330 etc. engine changes Optimus Prime General BMW Questions 15 04-03-2004 06:56 PM
Dr Mario Theissen chat WAM Motorsports, Racing & Track 1 08-14-2003 08:28 AM
Product review: Griot's Engine cleaner kit(m) The HACK The Detail Department 20 01-08-2002 07:56 PM


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 02:53 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
© 2001-2015 performanceIX, Inc. All Rights Reserved .: guidelines .:. privacy .:. terms