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E90/E91/E92/E93 (2006 - 2013)
The E9X is the 4th evolution of the BMW 3 series including a highly tuned twin turbo 335i variant pushing out 300hp and 300 ft. lbs. of torque. BMW continues to show that it sets the bar for true driving performance! -- View the E9X Wiki

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  #1  
Old 04-12-2006, 04:27 PM
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akula57 akula57 is offline
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Thumbs up 330i 3.0 the best 3.0 out there???

I wish it were a 3.2 (more torque) but at 3.0 is it that much better than say the Accord V-6? The torque curve looks great but with the Step I notice a surge at 4000 for some reason. By the way, how does the weight of the two cars compare? Also, why did the
E46 feel faster? Just the sound?

With gas hitting $3 a gallon this summer, the Accord V-6 needing only regular (if I'm not mistaken) is a real boon.

Why does the M3 at 3.2 have so much more power? Is one reason the horsepower and torque coming in high. Is another higher emissions?

Who also makes a really good 3.0? (Naturally aspirated.) And is there a substitute for cubic inches - like light weight, 6 gears, and variable vale timing.


How does the Bimmer 3.0 do on the dyno (or any other measure if more meaningful) compared to competitors such as the Acura TL? Tx.

akula (silent, fast running)
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  #2  
Old 04-12-2006, 04:45 PM
KungFuJoe KungFuJoe is offline
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Yes.
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  #3  
Old 04-12-2006, 04:46 PM
gos gos is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by akula57
I wish it were a 3.2 (more torque) but at 3.0 is it that much better than say the Accord V-6? The torque curve looks great but with the Step I notice a surge at 4000 for some reason. By the way, how does the weight of the two cars compare? Also, why did the
E46 feel faster? Just the sound?

With gas hitting $3 a gallon this summer, the Accord V-6 needing only regular (if I'm not mistaken) is a real boon.

Why does the M3 at 3.2 have so much more power? Is one reason the horsepower and torque coming in high. Is another higher emissions?

Who also makes a really good 3.0? (Naturally aspirated.) And is there a substitute for cubic inches - like light weight, 6 gears, and variable vale timing.


How does the Bimmer 3.0 do on the dyno (or any other measure if more meaningful) compared to competitors such as the Acura TL? Tx.

akula (silent, fast running)
$3.00 for premium, or $2.80 for regular.

At say a sporty 20 miles/gallon average and 15,000 miles/year, that's 750 gallons of gas. The $0.20/gallon difference saves you $150 per year, which IMO isn't that significant if you're stomping on the gas so hard you only get 20 mpg.

At 30 mpg, you only use 500 gallons/year, and would save $75.

That's the whole reason why hybrids don't actually save money, because the cost of gas is but a trivial expense for most drivers, compared to the actual cost of the car. Recouping the cost of the hybrid system takes longer than the car's expected life.

Of course, on a raw cash savings, you'll pocket $20,000 by buying the accord instead of the BMW. However, don't pretend it has anything to do with the price of gasoline.
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  #4  
Old 04-12-2006, 04:48 PM
gos gos is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gos
$3.00 for premium, or $2.80 for regular.

At say a sporty 20 miles/gallon average and 15,000 miles/year, that's 750 gallons of gas. The $0.20/gallon difference saves you $150 per year, which IMO isn't that significant if you're stomping on the gas so hard you only get 20 mpg.

At 30 mpg, you only use 500 gallons/year, and would save $75.

That's the whole reason why hybrids don't actually save money, because the cost of gas is but a trivial expense for most drivers, compared to the actual cost of the car. Recouping the cost of the hybrid system takes longer than the car's expected life.

Of course, on a raw cash savings, you'll pocket $20,000 by buying the accord instead of the BMW. However, don't pretend it has anything to do with the price of gasoline.
And by my own math, i'm "making" $900/month by waiting on a 335 while driving my beater. =P
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  #5  
Old 04-12-2006, 10:52 PM
Nefilim Nefilim is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gos
And by my own math, i'm "making" $900/month by waiting on a 335 while driving my beater. =P
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  #6  
Old 04-12-2006, 11:02 PM
Nefilim Nefilim is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by akula57

Why does the M3 at 3.2 have so much more power? Is one reason the horsepower and torque coming in high. Is another higher emissions?
The S54 engine in the E46 M3 is very a different beast from the old 3.0 in the E46, the M54 and of course the new N52. Increase in displacement (3.2), increase in compression 10.2 to 11.5, the variable valve timing varies timing much more than the normal VANOS in the M54 and of course 6 individual throttles (of course this cannot be compared to the N52 since it doesn't have throttle bodies). I think all of this contributed to the higher torque (proportionally to the 3.0) ... as for horsepower .. it's just a function of revs & torque... revving to 8250rpm.
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  #7  
Old 04-13-2006, 04:41 AM
andy_thomas andy_thomas is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by akula57
Who also makes a really good 3.0? (Naturally aspirated.) And is there a substitute for cubic inches - like light weight, 6 gears, and variable vale timing.
Ford's 3.0 litre Duratec V6 is a pretty useful bit of kit - at least, the one engineered for use over here certainly is. Two of them makes an Aston's 6.0 litre V12

Alfa Romeo's 3.2 V6 is pretty special, and has plenty of grunt too. Mercedes' 3.5 V6 is also OK, although its capacity is starting to bloat (I think Mercedes gave up chasing naturally-aspirated specific power outputs a while ago).

In fact every other good six-pot I can think of is over 3 litres. The only sub-3.0l six I can think of - a V6, naturally - is the new GM unit developed by Holden and used in the Saab 9-3, amongst other places. It has plenty of power - but then it is turbocharged. So it doesn't count

EDIT: I forgot Subaru's flat six. But it has a drink problem.
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  #8  
Old 04-13-2006, 10:08 AM
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phantom701 phantom701 is offline
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The Japanese manufacturers have a strong tendency to overstate the horsepower. If you'd follow the news recently, they were caught with their pants down and had to revise downward the horsepower numbers on their vehicles.

Furthermore, the horsepower on most Japanese vehicles is not measured at the wheel. By the time it gets to the wheel, a substantial lost of horsepower is seen.

This is different from BMW on how the indicated horsepower is measured. So the 200hp in BMW might actually be higher than the 210hp in Honda etc.

The engine in the BMW is contantly being optimized. A 3.0 litre engine is capable of producing 255 hp. Where as you would find it difficult for any other manufacturer to even come close to that. Some American manufactuers (current model vehicle) need a V8 to achieve 255 hp!!!!
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  #9  
Old 04-13-2006, 10:29 AM
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gr8sho gr8sho is offline
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So you're saying the 255bhp for the 330i is measured at the wheels?
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  #10  
Old 04-13-2006, 11:07 AM
blankboy blankboy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phantom701
The engine in the BMW is contantly being optimized. A 3.0 litre engine is capable of producing 255 hp. Where as you would find it difficult for any other manufacturer to even come close to that. Some American manufactuers (current model vehicle) need a V8 to achieve 255 hp!!!!
Um... The new Toyota RAV4 does 269hp at 3.5 liter V6. If the numbers are 'correct' then wouldn't Toyota have very close level of engine efficiency to BMW engines? I don't think 330i has the best 3.0 out there. However, I do think 330i has the best overall driver's package than other cars of the same class, and believe me, I test drove all competitors before purchasing the 330i.
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  #11  
Old 04-13-2006, 11:36 AM
eelnoraa eelnoraa is offline
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For N/A engine, displacement is more or leproportional to TORQUE, NOT necessary horsepower, for any configuration. A good example is Honda S2000, 2.0L produce 240HP. This is all achieve by have high redline.

Back to Accord V6, although it use regular gas, the MPG with this engine is not that great. On paper, it has a very good MPG for highway only because their 5 speed auto has 5th gear ratio of 0.5. In my family's experience, they get 20MPG average. Under same type of commute (+ additional DE), my E46 3.0 gets 24.5MPG.

eel
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  #12  
Old 04-13-2006, 03:50 PM
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akula57 akula57 is offline
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not too compelling yet...

:
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  #13  
Old 04-13-2006, 04:36 PM
M3Mad M3Mad is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gos
$3.00 for premium, or $2.80 for regular.

At say a sporty 20 miles/gallon average and 15,000 miles/year, that's 750 gallons of gas. The $0.20/gallon difference saves you $150 per year, which IMO isn't that significant if you're stomping on the gas so hard you only get 20 mpg.

At 30 mpg, you only use 500 gallons/year, and would save $75.

That's the whole reason why hybrids don't actually save money, because the cost of gas is but a trivial expense for most drivers, compared to the actual cost of the car. Recouping the cost of the hybrid system takes longer than the car's expected life.

Of course, on a raw cash savings, you'll pocket $20,000 by buying the accord instead of the BMW. However, don't pretend it has anything to do with the price of gasoline.
I don't know how you arrived at these numbers, but I think you might be underestimating the full advantages of a hybrid. Assume you drive 15,000 miles a year, like you suggested. Now, let's compare the fuel costs of a 330i getting 24mpg and a Toyota Camry Hybrid getting a combined EPA estimate of 39mpg. Without factoring in other variables, the two cars will consume 625 and 385 gallons of fuel, respectively. Even if they both use premium gasoline, at $3/gallon, the Camry will save you $720 per year on fuel. If the Camry runs on regular fuel, then at $2.80/gallon, it will save you a total of $797 per year.

Factor in the tax-breaks for hybrids - currently about $2000 for the average household, although new legislation is pending - and the hybrid Camry saves you about $2800 per year over a 330i. As long as you sell your hybrid before the battery needs replacing, a hybrid will be cheaper to run.

Then of course there are the other bigger-picture benefits: Some hybrids only run on electrical power at slower speeds, meaning less pollution and smog in cities, the atmosphere, reducing the rate of global warming, etc.

As for Mr. Akula: if you really are concerned about these types of things, my guess is that you would be happier in an Accord than a BMW. BMWs are for people who love to drive and for people who love to pose (the latter group making up about 90% of BMW owners) - both groups that are willing to put up with the little quirks of these cars for the overall package. If, however, you just want a functioning automobile that is fuel efficient, a japanese product would unquestionably be better.
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