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  #1  
Old 11-14-2002, 04:32 PM
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Talking Signed up for Driving Concepts racing school!

I just signed up for the Driving Concepts racing/competition school to be held Nov. 23 and 24 at Willow Springs Raceway. After I complete the school, I will be able to apply for my BMW CCA Club Racing license! Woohooooooo!!! I am finally closing in on one of my dreams.... Next, I will have to buy a race car, or prep one up from scratch. ScottN2Retro and I have had a few thoughts about that already! Right Scott?

BTW, the school coincides with a NASA race that same week-end at the track, so if anyone local would like to attend, I would highly recommend it, so you can see for yourself what a club race is like.
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  #2  
Old 11-14-2002, 07:22 PM
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Re: Signed up for Driving Concepts racing school!

Quote:
Originally posted by Raffi
I just signed up for the Driving Concepts racing/competition school to be held Nov. 23 and 24 at Willow Springs Raceway. After I complete the school, I will be able to apply for my BMW CCA Club Racing license! Woohooooooo!!! I am finally closing in on one of my dreams.... Next, I will have to buy a race car, or prep one up from scratch. ScottN2Retro and I have had a few thoughts about that already! Right Scott?

BTW, the school coincides with a NASA race that same week-end at the track, so if anyone local would like to attend, I would highly recommend it, so you can see for yourself what a club race is like.
Attending the class isn't a requirement for getting a CCA license. You just have to have a certain number of documented DEs to apply. However....it may give you an advantage and/or make your more comfortable in race situations.
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Old 11-14-2002, 11:00 PM
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Re: Re: Signed up for Driving Concepts racing school!

Quote:
Originally posted by Bruce


Attending the class isn't a requirement for getting a CCA license. You just have to have a certain number of documented DEs to apply. However....it may give you an advantage and/or make your more comfortable in race situations.
Actually, I have been told that taking a racing/competition school IS a specific requirement to get a CCA license, in addition to the physical exam and license fee. However, this may be different per region - for example, it appears that due to lots of politicking, the Pacific region of the CCA will no longer hold racing events, but rather the events will be held under N.A.S.A. - same people, in essence, just a different organization. So I will actually be getting a N.A.S.A. club racing license, not a CCA license - just found this out tonight! I don't know more about the intricacies of the organizations.
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Old 11-14-2002, 11:11 PM
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Re: Re: Re: Signed up for Driving Concepts racing school!

So, what are you thinking for a track -- racing car?

E30? E36?
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  #5  
Old 11-14-2002, 11:15 PM
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Signed up for Driving Concepts racing school!

Quote:
Originally posted by Plaz
So, what are you thinking for a track -- racing car?

E30? E36?
Probably an E36 M3, already prepared and which has proven itself - Scott is in hot pursuit of one and already has several leads! But, first things first... gotta get the license, then figure out a budget and potential sponsorships... lots of $$$ involved
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Old 11-15-2002, 07:01 AM
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Signed up for Driving Concepts racing school!

Quote:
Originally posted by Raffi


Probably an E36 M3, already prepared and which has proven itself - Scott is in hot pursuit of one and already has several leads! But, first things first... gotta get the license, then figure out a budget and potential sponsorships... lots of $$$ involved
Keep us posted on the progress, and please take lots of pictures! I'd like to go down that path some time in the future......
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Old 11-15-2002, 09:15 AM
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Signed up for Driving Concepts racing school!

Quote:
Originally posted by Raffi


Probably an E36 M3, already prepared and which has proven itself - Scott is in hot pursuit of one and already has several leads! But, first things first... gotta get the license, then figure out a budget and potential sponsorships... lots of $$$ involved
Hey, put a bimmerfest sticker on your club racer man!
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Old 11-15-2002, 10:20 AM
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  #9  
Old 11-15-2002, 04:18 PM
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Signed up for Driving Concepts racing school!

Quote:
Originally posted by Plaz
So, what are you thinking for a track -- racing car?

E30? E36?
For Raffi, you may be right on both. My advice was to sell the e46, get an e36 racer and an e30 commuter.

But then again, knowing Raffi's situation, I don't know where all these budget concerns are coming from.
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Old 11-15-2002, 08:19 PM
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Signed up for Driving Concepts racing school!

Quote:
Originally posted by scottn2retro


For Raffi, you may be right on both. My advice was to sell the e46, get an e36 racer and an e30 commuter.
Nah, you got it backwards....E30 M3 race car, E36 M3 daily driver. :-)
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  #11  
Old 11-16-2002, 12:07 AM
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Signed up for Driving Concepts racing school!

Quote:
Originally posted by Galun


Keep us posted on the progress, and please take lots of pictures! I'd like to go down that path some time in the future......
Will do.
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  #12  
Old 11-17-2002, 11:04 AM
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The Club Racing Rules are online. The following is excerpted from the online License Policy and Application site at

http://www.bmwccaclubracing.com/Admi...0and%20App.htm

But to avoid reading everything, you can get a license three ways.

1) Having a license from some other licensing body (SCCA, etc) or,
2) Attending BMW drivers schools. (8 days in last 12 months and into Advanced run group, plus certification from the Cheif Instructor)
or,
3) Attending professional driver's school, such as Barber, Bondurant, Daly, etc.

Methods 2 or 3 require yo uthen attend a Club Racing school. Method 1 does not.

Also realize that many schools, Roos, Daly, etc, have programs that will qualify you for a SCCA Regional License. You take the course, complete it meeting the required criteria, then get the paperwork and apply.

I just finished the 3 day course at Derek Daly, so now could get my SCCA license or my BMW CCA license. But if I just go for my BMW CCA license I have to attend a Club Racing school and get a Rookie license (and have to mark the car for the first two races). If I first apply for my SCCA license I get a BMW CCA Provisional License and do NOT have to go to a Club Racing school. Also no Rookie marking.

"4. The application will provide for two methods to obtain a BMW CCA Club Racing License: a. Via an existing competition license from a recognized road racing sanctioning organization, including SCCA, PCA, POC and any vintage group which is a member of the Vintage Motorsport Council. The applicant must disclose all licenses and their current status as well as any current disciplinary action including penalties, probation or suspension. Each applicant is subject to a review and verification of licenses and inquiries concerning the applicant’s driving history and experience. b. Through documentation of participation in BMW CCA and other driving school programs and by attendance and successful completion of a BMW CCA Club Racing School (see paragraph 6).

5. Applicants with a recognized and current existing competition license in good standing and who successfully complete the experience review and verification process may be granted a BMW CCA Club Racing Provisional License. This will be in effect for two Club Race events. Performance will be carefully monitored at these events, and if satisfactory, the license status will be upgraded to Competition.

6. For members without an existing competition license (and hence applying to attend the BMW CCA Club Racing School) the applicant will be required to present documentation of having completed some combination of the following experience totaling eight (8) or more days of race track driving and training within the previous twenty-four (24) months:
a) BMW CCA Driver’s School events or equivalent events (i.e., TrackTime, Car Guys, PCA). Equivalency will be evaluated in terms of number of sessions with in-car and classroom instruction. Dates, locations, organizing Chapter/program, Chief Instructor, Run Group data, and instruction status (i.e., signed off by Instructor after the first two sessions) data shall be provided. Applicants are expected to have achieved advanced run group status.
b) The applicant shall provide signed certification from his/her Chapter’s Chief Instructor (or equivalent). The certification will describe the applicant’s ability with regard to basic high speed driving skills; describe the applicant’s ability to drive without an instructor in Run Groups higher than beginner; and information on the applicant’s courtesy and general awareness at all times on the track. c) Successful completion of selected national/regional professional programs (i.e., Skip Barber, Bondurant, Derek Daly Academy, etc.). A list of approved programs is available from the Club Racing Registrar.

All applicants are subject to a thorough review and verification of their experience and a check of all available references. There is no guarantee that solely meeting the requirements of (a), (b) or (c) above will result in obtaining a BMW CCA Club Racing License. With these requirements fulfilled the applicant may be accepted to the Club Racing School.

7. All Rookie license applicants and new Provisional licensees are required to attend the scheduled "Rookie" meeting at their first Club Race event.

8. All applications are subject to review and verification of experience and references. Applicants may be required to obtain additional experience beyond minimum requirements, based on the application review. Based on an applicant's experience Club Racing administration may require Rookie licensees to complete their first race at a track at which they have had prior driving experience.

BMW CCA Club Racing retains the right to accept or reject any applicant based on the individual applicant's qualifications and experience.

9. Upon successful completion of a Club Racing School, a member will be granted a BMW CCA Club Racing Rookie License. This license will be in effect for two (2) Club Racing events (including the event of the school). Each rookie will be required to display rookie identification on the rear deck lid or bumper, and their performance will be monitored closely by BMW CCA Club Racing. After successfully competing in two events, the license status will be upgraded to Competition.
10. Rookie and Provisional licensee's must satisfactorily complete two (2) events to qualify for a Competition license. An event which includes multiple races will be counted as one event."
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  #13  
Old 11-17-2002, 12:38 PM
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Thanks for the in-depth post, Pinecone.
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Old 11-17-2002, 12:38 PM
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Not having gone thru the licensing procedure.....

I believe that the rookie meeting and subsequent run groups and practice starts is the "club race school". I don't believe there is a seperate weekend club racing school requirement nor is the a requirement to go to a Skip Barber type school.

The rules are written pretty bad and are kind of ambiguous IMO.
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Old 11-18-2002, 08:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Raffi
Thanks for the in-depth post, Pinecone.
Not a problem, I was looking into it myself.

About the Club Racing School, here is the info from the site.

"CLUB RACING SCHOOL PROCEDURES

1. Attendance at the Club Racing School will be approved by application as noted above; the organizing Chapter will determine if any additional fees (over and above the Club Racing entry fee for that event) will be required for those attending the School. 2. School attendees will be required to have all the personal and car safety equipment as required by the Club Racing Program Rules and Equipment Regulations; pre-school inspections will only be for personal and car safety equipment. 3. Schools will nominally take 4-6 hours, and will be organized into the following segments:
a) Registration and safety equipment technical inspection.

b) Classroom session(s), which will focus on procedures for the School and race; detailed discussions of race driving etiquette, techniques, and on-track safety procedures.

NOTE: A MANDATORY classroom session of approx. 2 hours will be held prior to the event on track activities.

c) Open practice sessions

d) Review of open practice session comments with each Rookie.

e) Practice rolling start session, with at least two starts. At the Chief Steward's discretion, the last practice start will be allowed to continue to a short (less than 5 laps) practice race.

f) Review of performance results with each Rookie."



So it does sound like this could be done in conjunction with the race weekend. However one another page they talk more about the Club Racing school and say this:



"BMW CCA Club Racing School Overview

BMW CCA Club Racing has enhanced the racing program by developing a series of racing school programs nationwide to serve as the perfect stepping stone for the prospective racer.

These programs are presented by professional, experienced faculty, including the California based Driving Concepts Team.

These intensive two-day schools are structured to take the experienced driving school participant and prepare them for the racing environment.

Historically, prospective race drivers have often been licensed without having an opportunity to develop the necessary skills and confidence to successfully begin an enjoyable, rewarding racing career.

In our racing schools, the student drives a ‘street prepared’ car on track with other students in simulated racing conditions. Extensive classroom sessions (5 hours per day) and four on track sessions each day are structured to develop the drivers’ race craft and to reduce the anxiety normally associated with the first taste of competitive driving.

The on-track portion of the program includes green flag starts, driving in traffic, drafting, driving off line, pace car restarts, qualifying and space management.

Classroom sessions are presented by experienced race drivers who thoroughly explain racing preparation, driving techniques, race craft and the mental and physical aspects of competition.

The racing experience has been so realistic that several students have repeated the course multiple times. Graduates from our program have proven successful in their club racing careers in both performance and safety.

All students are screened before being accepted into this school and, upon successful completion of the program, can be approved for licensing by BMW CCA Club Racing."


This sounds much more involved. And while it may happen on the same weekend as a Club Race, it doesn't look like you will be able to race the same weekend.



And I TOTALLY agree with the comment that the rules are not well written.
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Old 11-18-2002, 08:06 AM
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Signed up for Driving Concepts racing school!

Quote:
Originally posted by Bruce


Nah, you got it backwards....E30 M3 race car, E36 M3 daily driver. :-)
Also an option, but of the race cars available that I showed Raffi for about the exact same price, the E36 racer was the better car and he could get the e30 commuter cheaper. That would be the lower cost of the two options, even though I know for Raffi, cost is no object.

Raffi, you may want to talk to Carl M. I guess Brad O. had some issue with an extra kind of "review" of the applications that is not a documented part of the process. The issue wasn't that there was this extra review (based on reputation among other things), but that is wasn't documented as part of the process. I don't think it would be a problem for you, but it's good to know what really goes on.
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Old 11-18-2002, 10:41 AM
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Signed up for Driving Concepts racing school!

Quote:
Originally posted by scottn2retro


... even though I know for Raffi, cost is no object.

Huh??? Think I have a money tree in my backyard???
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Old 11-18-2002, 11:45 AM
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Signed up for Driving Concepts racing school!

Quote:
Originally posted by Raffi


Huh??? Think I have a money tree in my backyard???
Actually, I did. How else could you afford to go to every track school on the calendar?
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Old 11-18-2002, 12:58 PM
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Signed up for Driving Concepts racing school!

Quote:
Originally posted by scottn2retro


Actually, I did. How else could you afford to go to every track school on the calendar?
Don't have a wifey!
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Old 11-18-2002, 02:30 PM
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Signed up for Driving Concepts racing school!

Quote:
Originally posted by Raffi
Don't have a wifey!
Bastige

You have no idea the amount of grovelling it will take to get my project car
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Old 11-18-2002, 02:43 PM
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Signed up for Driving Concepts racing school!

Quote:
Originally posted by scottn2retro


Bastige

You have no idea the amount of grovelling it will take to get my project car
Hehe, I never told you to get married - oh, wait, I was not even born yet at the time!
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Old 11-18-2002, 04:40 PM
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Signed up for Driving Concepts racing school!

Quote:
Originally posted by Raffi
Hehe, I never told you to get married - oh, wait, I was not even born yet at the time!
Okay, so I may be a LITTLE older than you (although maybe a LOT wiser), so all the more reason to take my advice to sell the e46 (before you tear it up at Buttonwillow ) and go for the racer/commuter package we talked about
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Old 11-18-2002, 11:20 PM
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Signed up for Driving Concepts racing school!

Quote:
Originally posted by scottn2retro


Okay, so I may be a LITTLE older than you (although maybe a LOT wiser), so all the more reason to take my advice to sell the e46 (before you tear it up at Buttonwillow ) and go for the racer/commuter package we talked about
You wise-@ss!
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Old 11-19-2002, 07:38 AM
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Signed up for Driving Concepts racing school

Quote:
Originally posted by Raffi
You wise-@ss!
You know, if you sell that e46, you may be able to get both the e36 racer and an e36 commuter.
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Old 11-19-2002, 06:25 PM
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Additional info.

I saw in our newletter that Tarheel is doing a Club Racing School. It will be the two days PRIOR to a Club Race event.

For the school a normal BMW CCA Driver's Education setup is fine. No cage required. If you pass and want to race that weekend, all the afety stuff applies.
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