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  #1  
Old 11-15-2002, 02:48 PM
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FrenchBoy FrenchBoy is offline
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Rear fog lights on BMWs in the US?

A MINI owner has started a petition asking BMW NA to add a rear fog light to the MINI in the US.

http://www.petitiononline.com/MINIfogs/petition.html

The MINI owner claims that "BMW makes rear fog lights available in BMW-brand cars in the US, as does Mercedes, Saab, Audi, Volvo, Porsche and other car makers."

I own a '01 325Ci, and I do not believe that it has a rear fog light. I am pretty sure that rear fog light cluster (in the trunk lid, below the back-up lights) is not set up to receive a fog light bulb in my US bound 325Ci. In any case, there is not rear fog light switch on the dash.
Has this changed since 2001?

Thanks,
Nicolas

PS: I do agree that rear fog lights would be a good addition to the list of safety features. However, I fear the number of morons that would always leave them on, were they mandatory in the US.
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  #2  
Old 11-15-2002, 02:49 PM
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Nick325xiT 5spd Nick325xiT 5spd is offline
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Personally I'd like them to make it easy to retrofit one.
I DON'T want them standard for the same reasons you give.
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  #3  
Old 11-15-2002, 02:56 PM
chukiechz chukiechz is offline
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Re: Rear fog lights on BMWs in the US?

Quote:
Originally posted by nhostein

PS: I do agree that rear fog lights would be a good addition to the list of safety features. However, I fear the number of morons that would always leave them on, were they mandatory in the US.

I dont think they are that annoying. I see many audi's driving around with their rear fog light on. It just looks like they replaced the rear indicator light with a brighter bulb by accident.
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  #4  
Old 11-15-2002, 03:04 PM
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Re: Re: Rear fog lights on BMWs in the US?

Quote:
Originally posted by chukiechz



I dont think they are that annoying. I see many audi's driving around with their rear fog light on. It just looks like they replaced the rear indicator light with a brighter bulb by accident.
They're WAY annoying on Mercs. It's brighter on one side than the other. All the new Mercedes Benzes I see on the road, regardless of weather condition and time of day, have their stupid foglights on.

A couple of times I pull up to a new Merc with their foglights on and tell them one of their brake light is broken just to watch them try to explain that it's their fogs. In broad daylight.
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  #5  
Old 11-15-2002, 03:16 PM
chukiechz chukiechz is offline
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Re: Re: Re: Rear fog lights on BMWs in the US?

Quote:
Originally posted by The HACK


A couple of times I pull up to a new Merc with their foglights on and tell them one of their brake light is broken just to watch them try to explain that it's their fogs. In broad daylight.
Im gonna try that next time with some female mercedes driver. Half of them probably dont know how to use the cruise control even. Im gonna tell them their brake light is busted and she's gonna cause an accident. That outta freak her out a bit, or at least she can give her husband an earful when seh gets home
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  #6  
Old 11-15-2002, 03:26 PM
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Re: Re: Re: Rear fog lights on BMWs in the US?

Quote:
Originally posted by The HACK


They're WAY annoying on Mercs. It's brighter on one side than the other. All the new Mercedes Benzes I see on the road, regardless of weather condition and time of day, have their stupid foglights on.
In europe, I believe its only required for there to be 1 rear fog. In fact, I've seen US cars modded to euro spec where one of the reverse lights was changed into a rear fog, which is OK since in europe only 1 reverse light is required.

I don't think leaving the rear fog on would be a big problem on E46s since the fogs turn themselves off every time you cut the main lights.
  #7  
Old 11-15-2002, 04:29 PM
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What is it with drivers and the front fog lights... 3/4 of the people with fogs have them on and there isn't fog within a hundred miles. I bet I've had mine on a grand total of 10 times in a year and a half. The worst are SUV drivers... and slammed big spoilered pieces of junk.

Last edited by Artslinger; 11-15-2002 at 04:33 PM.
  #8  
Old 11-16-2002, 06:48 AM
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Rear fog lights on BMWs in the US?

Quote:
Originally posted by Kaz


In europe, I believe its only required for there to be 1 rear fog. In fact, I've seen US cars modded to euro spec where one of the reverse lights was changed into a rear fog, which is OK since in europe only 1 reverse light is required.

I don't think leaving the rear fog on would be a big problem on E46s since the fogs turn themselves off every time you cut the main lights.
Kaz, you are right on the 1 rear fog. If a car has one, it is typically on the driver side (i.e. the side you would pass them on). However, many higher end cars here in Europe (BMW, Audi,Merc, VW, heck even my British '92 Accord wagon) have two.

I find it really anoying when people leave them on because those I have encountered here are really bright. I switched cars with my wife one foggy night and followed her home in the Honda. While the rear fogs were great in the soup, they were VERY bright when we broke out of the patchy fog. Being on dark country roads may have had some influence on that as well.

On an interesting note, you can always spot the Americans here because they are the ones that are always running the rear fog in the clear weather. Fortunatly, it is illegal to do that in the UK and they often are ticketed.

In their defence, some newer cars are set up to turn on the rear fog automatically when you turn on the fronts.
  #9  
Old 11-16-2002, 08:24 AM
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Thanks all for your comments. However, I still didn't quite get an answer to my original question.

Are BMWs sold with rear fog lights in the US? Is it an option to get them?

I have seen a few Audis and Mercs with, usually, 1 rear fog light here in the Boston area. Which is strange, because I am pretty sure that the same models are sold with 2 rear fog lights in Europe. However, I have never seen any BMWs with rear fog lights in the US.

Thanks,
Nicolas
  #10  
Old 11-16-2002, 08:47 AM
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BMW's produced for the US do not have the rear fog lamps installed. The wiring, switch, and bulbs are not included in these cars. It is not an option.

In my opinion, I would much rather suffer from the distraction of an illuminated fog lamp used improperly if I could avoid a major accident and loss of life during foggy times.

Driving in thick fog is one of the most scary experiences of my life. I once drove across a bridge where the visibility was probably twenty feet at best and there was no place to pull off the road. There was no way that I could anticipate this type of fog. It was a miracle that an accident didn't occur with driver speeds between 25 and 50 mph.
  #11  
Old 11-16-2002, 10:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Parump
BMW's produced for the US do not have the rear fog lamps installed. The wiring, switch, and bulbs are not included in these cars. It is not an option.

In my opinion, I would much rather suffer from the distraction of an illuminated fog lamp used improperly if I could avoid a major accident and loss of life during foggy times.

Driving in thick fog is one of the most scary experiences of my life. I once drove across a bridge where the visibility was probably twenty feet at best and there was no place to pull off the road. There was no way that I could anticipate this type of fog. It was a miracle that an accident didn't occur with driver speeds between 25 and 50 mph.

I totaly agree with you on this... rear fog lights should be manditory on all new vehicles. We have had increase in the US of massive plieups do to heavy fog. Just 2-3 weeks ago they had a huge pileup in Wisconsin that involved 50 vehicles, injured 40 people and killed 10 others
  #12  
Old 11-16-2002, 10:53 AM
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As long as they're set up like the front fogs on E46s where they're set to reset to off every time you cycle the lights, I think they'll be fine for US use. And E46s are also set up (I believe) to have the front and rear fogs switched independently.

LA also had a major (198 car) fog-induced pileup recently, and as I live somewhat near the coast every so often I feel I'd be a little safer if I had rear fogs on the car.

If I can figure out the whole deal with the light switch and the control module assembly, I'd be up to working out a retrofit.
  #13  
Old 11-16-2002, 01:04 PM
OBS3SSION OBS3SSION is offline
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I retrofitted the rear fog light onto my Passat. I had to add a missing bulb, run a wire to the dash, and hook it onto the headlight switch. I got the European version of the switch so I can turn on the front and rear fogs independently.

Anyhow, I have used it several times. It has only been foggy enough once or twice, but I will also use it on rainy days on the highway when there is so much spray and mist, that it's just like fog. Basically, anytime I have difficulty seeing the car in front of me, I'll turn it on.

As for my front fogs... I'll use them in any inclement weather. I use them more so that people can see me in the rain and fog than for me seeing the road. I don't use them whenever it's clear.

Yes, it bothers me when so many people use extra lights that they don't need. And I will often see rear fog equipped cars driving with them turned on during a perfectly sunny day. The simple answer is "people are idiots" in this country. A deeper reason would be in two parts: 1) There is pathetic driver's education in the US, and any moron can get a license without even trying it seems. 2) There is little or no enforcement of the traffic laws that nobody knows about anyway.

Now, I could go into a 10 page rant about those 2 items... but I won't. Instead I'll just say I'll (as an informed driver) miss having a rear fog on my US spec BMW.
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  #14  
Old 11-17-2002, 07:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Artslinger
What is it with drivers and the front fog lights... 3/4 of the people with fogs have them on and there isn't fog within a hundred miles. I bet I've had mine on a grand total of 10 times in a year and a half. The worst are SUV drivers... and slammed big spoilered pieces of junk.
So, if I drive my 330 around at night with headlights and foglights on I'm wrong? I drive with my fogs on to put more light on the road and to make myself more visable to others. Plus I think the car looks bad ass with fogs on.

I know when I see a 325/330 comming up behind me I can tell from the light what it is. Let's me know he is one of us.
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  #15  
Old 11-18-2002, 04:06 AM
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no fog - no foglight

The fog lights, both rear and front, are very bright and dizzle the other drivers. So you shouldn't use them unless there is really fog on the road.
The rear light may be more dangerous than the front, as when you break the high intensity of it makes the cars behaind you less aware that you are actually breaking.
  #16  
Old 11-18-2002, 05:01 AM
paul330ci paul330ci is offline
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Driving, not fog lights.

Guys:

Check the lenses on your lights. They are smooth, no ridges. These are driving lights not fog lights.

They are called fog but they do not do squat in fog. To make it work in fog they need to be ridged lenses.
  #17  
Old 11-18-2002, 06:04 AM
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Re: Driving, not fog lights.

Quote:
Originally posted by paul330ci
Guys:

Check the lenses on your lights. They are smooth, no ridges. These are driving lights not fog lights.

They are called fog but they do not do squat in fog. To make it work in fog they need to be ridged lenses.

ahhh... why does BMW call them fog lights. They come standard on all new E46s.
  #18  
Old 11-18-2002, 06:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Daniel


So, if I drive my 330 around at night with headlights and foglights on I'm wrong? I drive with my fogs on to put more light on the road and to make myself more visable to others. Plus I think the car looks bad ass with fogs on.

I know when I see a 325/330 comming up behind me I can tell from the light what it is. Let's me know he is one of us.

"Plus I think the car looks bad ass with fogs on."
  #19  
Old 11-18-2002, 06:16 AM
paul330ci paul330ci is offline
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Ahh yes the eternal question - Why are they called fog lights?

Hmm. The north american office of Hella is in my town. I know some one who works there. One of their technical reps.

He has told me the situation with the lenses many times.

I've asked why call them fogs.

He thinks it's one of those things like Kleenex and Coke. It's become a generic term.
  #20  
Old 11-18-2002, 06:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by paul330ci
Ahh yes the eternal question - Why are they called fog lights?

Hmm. The north american office of Hella is in my town. I know some one who works there. One of their technical reps.

He has told me the situation with the lenses many times.

I've asked why call them fogs.

He thinks it's one of those things like Kleenex and Coke. It's become a generic term.

So what your saying is that what BMW calls "fog lights" are actually not "fog lights"?
  #21  
Old 11-18-2002, 06:25 AM
paul330ci paul330ci is offline
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Yes.
However on my E34 the lenses are ridged.

On my E46 they are not.

So it goes both ways, eh!
  #22  
Old 11-18-2002, 06:27 AM
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From PIAAs website:

Driving Lamps are designed to increase the range and brightness of your vehicle's high beams. They are especially useful at higher cruising speeds where they help to identify hazards and signs long before they would been seen by high beams only. All Driving lamps are extremely bright and must be dimmed with high beams.


Fog/Foul Weather Lamps enhance your vehicle's low beams for improved vision in rain, fog, or snow. Distance of illumination is similar to your vehicle's low beam. Fog/ Foul Weather Lamps are available in amber or clear beam color.
  #23  
Old 11-18-2002, 06:29 AM
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I dought it very much what BMW calls "fog lights" are actually driving lamps.
  #24  
Old 11-18-2002, 06:57 AM
OBS3SSION OBS3SSION is offline
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Based on the info from PIAA's website then, if the "fog lights" are automatically turned off when the high beams are on... then they can't be "driving lights". My fogs turn off on my Passat when the high beams are on. I don't know about BMW's, because I don't have mine yet.

However, regardless... the fog/driving lights should not be used under normal circumstances.

If they are fog lights, only use them in fog or inclement weather to enhance the illumination of your low beams.

If they are driving lights, only use them when you'd use your high beams.

Regardless of what kind of car a person is driving on a clear night, the only thing I think when I see that car with auxiliary lights on is "arsehole". (Sorry guys... no offence meant.)
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  #25  
Old 11-18-2002, 07:25 AM
TGD TGD is offline
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Fog lights

Proper fog lights polarize the light so that it is not diffused in the fog. This may be done by ridges on a glass headlight assembly, but can just as easily (and cheaply) done with a polarizing plastic filter or lens.
Are the small fog lights in the facelift sedan using plastic lenses in the front?
The fog lights in my compact are glass and ridged.
As for matching the color of the fog lights to the headlights, this is next to impossible. But since the yellow light is better suited to fog conditions, you should probably go the other way and install yellow light bulbs for a truly contrasting look!

Last edited by TGD; 11-18-2002 at 07:27 AM.
 

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