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E60 M5 (2006 - 2010)

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  #1  
Old 08-24-2006, 04:34 PM
Ucla95 Ucla95 is offline
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Question Why are there so many used M5's around...

New to the market and frankly there are about half a dozen used M5's in my area. Dealer told me I could have one that's 10 months old, loaded (vent seats etc. etc.) for $78K. wtf? I thought M5's were supposed to be in hot demand. Can people not handle the car? Hate the SMG? Gas mileage??
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Old 08-24-2006, 08:23 PM
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Please let me know what dealer. pm if necessary. That's a great price.
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Old 08-26-2006, 06:11 PM
wolverine wolverine is offline
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Originally Posted by Ucla95 View Post
New to the market and frankly there are about half a dozen used M5's in my area. Dealer told me I could have one that's 10 months old, loaded (vent seats etc. etc.) for $78K. wtf? I thought M5's were supposed to be in hot demand. Can people not handle the car? Hate the SMG? Gas mileage??

$78K for a 1 year old car that has a base price new of $82,500 isn't exactly tanking, even with $5-10K in options. Try ordering a new M5 for below sticker price. You can't, even one year after launch, and that's the best measure of demand, not how many used cars are on the market. Many dealers are continuing to charge premiums as well.

If you want to compare to the E63 AMG, there are dealer's with 3 or more of these cars sitting on the floor for sale at sticker price. The car was just released this month.
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  #4  
Old 08-26-2006, 06:59 PM
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10 MPG cars are not doing well right now. That is right 10 MPG. You may get 12-15 if you baby it.

In contrast a 550 will get 19/26. No it is not 500HP, but it is a good balance of performance and economy.

You can't take an M5 on a road trip. The mileage is so bad you would be stopping for fuel quite frequently.
  #5  
Old 08-26-2006, 07:14 PM
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Originally Posted by chuck92103 View Post
10 MPG cars are not doing well right now. That is right 10 MPG. You may get 12-15 if you baby it.


Yes, you should use that line on the Ferrari dealer too...I'm sure he'd give up that F430 at $500 over invoice.
  #6  
Old 08-26-2006, 07:39 PM
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Perhaps M5s should have a tank with higher capacity than regular E60s. 18.5 gallons is small for a car that gives 10 mpg, the range would be less than 200 miles. Frequent gas stops would be annoying at the least.

Imagine going on the autobahn at 120 mph, you tank would be empty in less than 1.5 hours!
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  #7  
Old 08-27-2006, 07:44 AM
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I think BMW knows the MPG is so bad, they won't even post it on their web site. At least not for the M5/6.

Definately not daily drivers.
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Old 08-27-2006, 11:23 AM
philippek philippek is offline
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My $.02

The M5s you're seeing right now in the secondary market were previously owned by some very special people. These people had to have it, and money was really no object. They paid a premium or, if they had connections or wiles, were able to get it at MSRP.

Right now they are driving around in their new Aston, Bentley, Maserati, or whatever other vehicle they decided they had to have after the luster of the M5 wore off.

These people did not just one day look down at their trip computer and say, "Omigod Mabel, this thing is getting 9.8 miles to the gallon!!! We gotta get us a Prius!"

The 2 PreOwned M5s my shop has taken in came to us that way. We bought one from a Ford dealer because the previous owner got a Vantage, and was out of garage space. The other was actually traded in to us on an M6. And that owner had the chutzpah to say, "The M5 was an interim car all along. I just needed a stopgap until the M6 came in."

Now, there is a new wave of M5 buyers coming to the table. These are the people who refuse to pay over MSRP (even though most are fully capable). These people would consider a PreOwned model if the deal were right. And these people are planning on using them as daily drivers, and will actually ask questions about mileage, service intervals, and tire life. These questions never even occured to the first set of buyers.

To those in the market, it's possible to pick up a PreOwned M5 at a reasonable discount: figure about $1 off original MSRP per mile driven. However, do beware, as I know of at least one M5 that was wrecked the day it was delivered by a young man who drove it into a curb at about 25 mph. That little excursion cost $17,000 to fix, and I saw it listed in AutoTrader about 3 weeks ago.
  #9  
Old 08-27-2006, 11:34 AM
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Originally Posted by philippek View Post
The other was actually traded in to us on an M6. And that owner had the chutzpah to say, "The M5 was an interim car all along. I just needed a stopgap until the M6 came in."
We have plenty of clients like this as well.

In fact, one of them bought the M5, the excitement wore off a month later, and he traded it for one of the early S550s, and when that excitement wore off he got one of our first M6's.

Let's just remember that the average person buying a new M5 is not someone that has been saving for years for a downpayment on the car or someone that works their ass off to be able to make the payment... At least around these parts, our M5 clients have plenty of money and have plenty of cars. They might keep the M5 for a few years, but they might also decide after 3 months that they've had enough and they have no problem losing $10-20k.
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Old 08-27-2006, 12:13 PM
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  #11  
Old 08-27-2006, 12:29 PM
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Quote:
Let's just remember that the average person buying a new M5 is not someone that has been saving for years for a downpayment on the car or someone that works their ass off to be able to make the payment... At least around these parts, our M5 clients have plenty of money and have plenty of cars. They might keep the M5 for a few years, but they might also decide after 3 months that they've had enough and they have no problem losing $10-20k.
I can only wish, a distant wish to belong to such a category.. Those must be the guys with annual income upwards of 500K or have won a lottery worth couple of millions....
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  #12  
Old 08-27-2006, 01:14 PM
wolverine wolverine is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chuck92103 View Post
10 MPG cars are not doing well right now. That is right 10 MPG. You may get 12-15 if you baby it.

In contrast a 550 will get 19/26. No it is not 500HP, but it is a good balance of performance and economy.

You can't take an M5 on a road trip. The mileage is so bad you would be stopping for fuel quite frequently.
Well, I would be to differ on the 'road trip' opinion. One of the reasons I got this car is the combination of having a '4 door Porsche', and being able to take my family on the road (college visits, etc...).

I've taken my M5 from Cincinnati to South Florida, and to Chicago, Detroit, Louisville, Indiannaplis, and Cleveland numerous times. Highway mileage is about 20 mpg, giving you around 350 miles range.

And it's not like it's a big inconvenience to find a gas station on the freeway...
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  #13  
Old 08-27-2006, 01:41 PM
Stuka Stuka is offline
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I have not bought a high demand BMW from LA dealers since, ever.

There are many people in LA with more $$ than they know what to do with, and are quite frankly, wasteful in the way that they dispose of that money.

I custom ordered a 2002 M3 for a hair less than MSRP from a December 2001 production slot from a small dealer in the Midwest, back when just about everyone charges 10 to 15K over sticker. Did I mention that my sales guy picked me up from the airport, got my car all tagged, gave me some maps, some oil, a full tank of gas, arranged for the clearbra install?

You don't even get this kind of service buying a car costing 200K new in LA, let alone something that costs only 50K.

And yes, you can, and have been able to order an E60 M5 from small midwestern dealers for about a year now. Some people chose not to do that and complain about the price of their local dealers instead, that is their choice, but know that you also have a choice in this age of the Interweb.

And yes, having gone through the Savage experience, a dealer is a dealer. You can have the best relationship with the SA, the GM, etc, and etc. If the owner decided that he doesn't like you, none of those other people matter.
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Old 08-27-2006, 01:45 PM
Stuka Stuka is offline
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Originally Posted by wolverine View Post
Well, I would be to differ on the 'road trip' opinion. One of the reasons I got this car is the combination of having a '4 door Porsche', and being able to take my family on the road (college visits, etc...).

I've taken my M5 from Cincinnati to South Florida, and to Chicago, Detroit, Louisville, Indiannaplis, and Cleveland numerous times. Highway mileage is about 20 mpg, giving you around 350 miles range.

And it's not like it's a big inconvenience to find a gas station on the freeway...
Yeah, but I think the OP is talking about using the M5 at speeds that will get you thrown in jail in those parts of the country, whereas on many parts of CA, those speeds are no big deal, and constantly having to fill up is a pain in the arse.

Case in point, for the 400 mile LA SFC drive, people with capable cars will need at least 2 fillup's. And if they really get on it, three.
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Old 08-27-2006, 06:26 PM
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Yeah, but I think the OP is talking about using the M5 at speeds that will get you thrown in jail in those parts of the country, whereas on many parts of CA, those speeds are no big deal, and constantly having to fill up is a pain in the arse.

Case in point, for the 400 mile LA SFC drive, people with capable cars will need at least 2 fillup's. And if they really get on it, three.
Good point. As i said before, BMW's are enjoyed for the most part under 65MPH. Accelerating and cornering. We will never see 125MPH roads here so the top end goes to waste the U.S.
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Old 08-27-2006, 07:01 PM
Suraj Suraj is offline
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Quote:
Yeah, but I think the OP is talking about using the M5 at speeds that will get you thrown in jail in those parts of the country, whereas on many parts of CA, those speeds are no big deal, and constantly having to fill up is a pain in the arse.
What parts of CA are these where such speeds are no big deal? Can you point to a couple of roads/freeways? I would like to know them so that I can try them out when I visit CA.
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Old 08-27-2006, 09:40 PM
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Originally Posted by chuck92103 View Post
10 MPG cars are not doing well right now. That is right 10 MPG. You may get 12-15 if you baby it.

In contrast a 550 will get 19/26. No it is not 500HP, but it is a good balance of performance and economy.

You can't take an M5 on a road trip. The mileage is so bad you would be stopping for fuel quite frequently.
I have to disagree. 10 MPG is not quite the right number, especially not for road trips (road trip = highway, not city-traffic..)......
I already made several road trips, and at about 75 MPH, a tank of gas lasts 300 miles, so that shouldn't be an issue...
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Old 08-30-2006, 01:44 PM
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Suraj, if you are desperate to speed you can use most sections of route 5 from LA to SF and route 15 from East of LA out to Vegas. A radar detector is recommended.

For a top-secret top-speed test location near LA look up Mt. Emma Road just North of Angeles National Forest (take Angeles Crest Highway, a.k.a. 2, from 210 North to Angeles Forest Highway, about seven miles later make a right on Mt. Emma and in a few miles you'll find a location many motorcyclists use for a top-speed test because it is straight and you can see for miles). Further out in CA's high-desert areas there are plenty of stetches like this.
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Old 08-30-2006, 02:21 PM
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LA freeways

This is anecdotal (seriously!), but I have heard good things about the old sections of the 110 (Pasadena Fwy). The reason given was that there is little to no shoulder space for CHP to pull you over.
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Old 08-30-2006, 02:27 PM
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This is anecdotal (seriously!), but I have heard good things about the old sections of the 110 (Pasadena Fwy). The reason given was that there is little to no shoulder space for CHP to pull you over.
If you have some training, you can easily go up to 120 on the LA to Pasadena section at wee hours of the night. Note that though it can be done, it is highly illegal, totall immoral, and contributes to the decline of western civilization.

If you do not have the training, the blind off camber turns with elevation changes can easily pwnz you and eat up your car and send you to the hospital or worse. Most untrained (meaning no extensive DE experiences) drivers can really do just about the speed limit white knockling through it.
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Old 08-30-2006, 02:37 PM
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I have not bought a high demand BMW from LA dealers since, ever.

There are many people in LA with more $$ than they know what to do with, and are quite frankly, wasteful in the way that they dispose of that money.

I custom ordered a 2002 M3 for a hair less than MSRP from a December 2001 production slot from a small dealer in the Midwest, back when just about everyone charges 10 to 15K over sticker. Did I mention that my sales guy picked me up from the airport, got my car all tagged, gave me some maps, some oil, a full tank of gas, arranged for the clearbra install?

You don't even get this kind of service buying a car costing 200K new in LA, let alone something that costs only 50K.

And yes, you can, and have been able to order an E60 M5 from small midwestern dealers for about a year now. Some people chose not to do that and complain about the price of their local dealers instead, that is their choice, but know that you also have a choice in this age of the Interweb.

And yes, having gone through the Savage experience, a dealer is a dealer. You can have the best relationship with the SA, the GM, etc, and etc. If the owner decided that he doesn't like you, none of those other people matter.
Speaking of M5's in the LA area. I had visited 2 BMW dealers last week. Long Beach and Sterling. Both dealers had 3 M5's each, positioned around their showrooms as well as 2 more in the back at Sterling and 1 at LB. ALL available for MSRP. Obviously the mark-up party is way over for these cars. I would'nt be surprised if they could be had somewhere between invoice and MSRP at this point.
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Old 09-07-2006, 10:58 AM
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Also, I wonder how much of this had to do with disatisfaction of SMG, or the harder edge nature of the car. I'll be interested to see how the manual version does over a similar period.

I've driven the SMG version and the previous E39 incarnation, and the E60 is just more overkill, if you will, for city driving (to state the obvious). There is such a temptation to extract speed and handling out of every stretch of asphalt, on ramp, off ramp or right turn at an intersection, but it's anticlimactic (sp) because 50-100 ft ahead is a car lumbering in front. And it has a rumble at idle that I'd think some would consider unrefined and tiring over time, may also be a contributing factor.

With enough open road opportunity I'd love to have one, preferably the manual version, but it just doesn't seem realistic where I live. Whoops, I interjected practicality into a M5 thread...I'll go back to my Honda thread now, please forgive me.

BTW, in addition to folks who can afford these cars and to take the hit, there are other early adopters (and others) who also could care less who run leases through their company. Not a revelation, but mention b/c not everyone who drives one buys one or feels the payment the way many of regular folk do.
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Old 09-14-2006, 04:47 PM
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there are 2 kinds of M5 buyer, 1st one is ppl with loads of cash and dont give a damn about the price and finance, they usually bought it with a certified bank check pay in full and have couple of ferraris and lambos sitting in the garage. 2nd type is the called the "irresponsible type", they work a regular job and making a ok living which means not enough to buy a 90k car. but they bought it anyway think they will make it by fianancing or even a LEASE! 3 months down the road, let say a person makes $2500/month after taxes and car payment is $1700 on top of that he has to pay rent/insurance/grocery/phone bills and let not forget the ripped off gas price. he starts to have a debited bank account and eventually not able make the payment. so eventually the bank repossess the car and thats why there are so many used one with less than 6000 miles. awhile ago i saw theres a jackass on EBAY that try to sale his lease for $1,750/month on a gray M5, wait a LEASE! who the hell is going to pay $1,750/month for a lease and the car still doesnt belong to you.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Ucla95 View Post
New to the market and frankly there are about half a dozen used M5's in my area. Dealer told me I could have one that's 10 months old, loaded (vent seats etc. etc.) for $78K. wtf? I thought M5's were supposed to be in hot demand. Can people not handle the car? Hate the SMG? Gas mileage??
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Old 09-14-2006, 05:01 PM
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Originally Posted by JumpMan495 View Post
there are 2 kinds of M5 buyer, 1st one is ppl with loads of cash and dont give a damn about the price and finance, they usually bought it with a certified bank check pay in full and have couple of ferraris and lambos sitting in the garage. 2nd type is the called the "irresponsible type", they work a regular job and making a ok living which means not enough to buy a 90k car. but they bought it anyway think they will make it by fianancing or even a LEASE! 3 months down the road, let say a person makes $2500/month after taxes and car payment is $1700 on top of that he has to pay rent/insurance/grocery/phone bills and let not forget the ripped off gas price. he starts to have a debited bank account and eventually not able make the payment. so eventually the bank repossess the car and thats why there are so many used one with less than 6000 miles. awhile ago i saw theres a jackass on EBAY that try to sale his lease for $1,750/month on a gray M5, wait a LEASE! who the hell is going to pay $1,750/month for a lease and the car still doesnt belong to you.
There is no bank that would ok a $1700 car payment to someone who makes $2500 a month. Most banks cap the allowable payment amount at 15-20% of gross pay.
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Old 09-14-2006, 05:11 PM
JumpMan495 JumpMan495 is offline
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ofcourse they would. if the guy wants the car so bad, he can bull****s the bank he has a off the book cash job by fill out a paper work call N0-DOC, or having a consignee to co sign the payment. since the bank can repo the car anytime if the payments were not received, they have nothing to lose on such a new launched car. personally i'd never make any payment more than 1000/ month of any finance on a car (but yes on mortage), if i have to finance that much $$, that means i cant afford it by not making sufficient down payment.

Last edited by JumpMan495; 09-14-2006 at 05:15 PM.
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