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E90/E91/E92/E93 (2006 - 2013)
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  #76  
Old 09-14-2006, 04:41 PM
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srobmw srobmw is offline
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I've been driving it for over a week now so I guess it's time to post the lease details.

Gross cap cost- $46,665.00

Cap cost reduction-$625.00
First payment- $701.98
Sec deposit- $ 0.00
Reg fees- $185.00
Sales tax- $2054.56
Sales tax - $50.81
(on cap cost)
Doc fee- $45.00
Oth ufrnt chg- $12.50
(beats the sh1t
out of me)
Total- $3674.85
Less deposit- $1000.00

Paid at delivery- $2674.85

Monthly payment- $701.98

Residual- $26662.60



This is for 36 months at 15k per year.

By no means a deal,but, it's no ripoff either. And I'm the first kid on the block with one. Plus it's probably close to $200 a month cheaper than the Competition Package M3 I was thinking about getting. So it works for me. And I love the damned thing.

Hope this helps all you prospective buyers
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  #77  
Old 09-14-2006, 04:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by schley View Post
The advantage of leasing driving 20k a year is significantly reduced. You can buy extra miles at the outset of the lease for 15cents per mile. The 15k residual is used but you would have to buy extra miles of 5k per year, which is 750 extra per year. $62.50 a month.

Or you can buy them during your lease up to 6 months from turn in for 16 cents per mile. Or if you wait till the end of the lease it is 20 cents per mile.

Keep in mind that you won't have a car under warranty for those last 10k miles or free maintenance if you drive 20k per year.

Instead of buying the extra miles at lease inception, I would take that money toward multiple security deposits which will buy down your MF. That money will then be used for excess mileage or wear and tear at lease end. Thus instead of buying miles up front, take that money to do MSD's and you can buy your MF down and then use that money to lease end, although it would be at 5 cents more per mile. This would be more advantageous when you run the numbers particularly for a higher dollar lease.
I actually will be adding 5k miles to my 20,000 mile lease (I drive about 25,000 miles a year! ouch!) But would a 2 year lease be more cost effective without having to worry about my warranty expiring after that two year mark and paying the extra $1300 for an extended warranty plus the extra miles! What can I say I love to drive! Any suggestions?
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  #78  
Old 09-14-2006, 05:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amberlove View Post
I actually will be adding 5k miles to my 20,000 mile lease (I drive about 25,000 miles a year! ouch!) But would a 2 year lease be more cost effective without having to worry about my warranty expiring after that two year mark and paying the extra $1300 for an extended warranty plus the extra miles! What can I say I love to drive! Any suggestions?
Not an easy answer...

Right now though with the MF's on the sedan being so high cash is the better alternative by$2400 or so on a 2 year lease by my Excel analysis.

2 year

Cash price: 41,070.0000
Tax+doc+lic: 4,364.6700
45,434.6700
Cash cost at 5%: 3,634.7736
Total: 49,069.4436

Out of pocket plus 5%: 7,464.7309
23 payments 18,523.8197
SD return (5,088.0479)
Payoff 28,298.7000
Tax 2,292.1947
30,590.8947
Total: 51,491.3974

Diff: 2,421.9538
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  #79  
Old 09-14-2006, 05:21 PM
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schley schley is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amberlove View Post
I actually will be adding 5k miles to my 20,000 mile lease (I drive about 25,000 miles a year! ouch!) But would a 2 year lease be more cost effective without having to worry about my warranty expiring after that two year mark and paying the extra $1300 for an extended warranty plus the extra miles! What can I say I love to drive! Any suggestions?
Some might say just buy the car if that is the case, but you have to throw in 1 big factor and that is sales tax. On a 50k car you are talking 4-5 grand just in taxes! That almost assures you of being upsidedown for 3-4 years if you buy it. Especially since you drive so often.

On the lease you only pay tax on your monthly payment so you come way ahead when looking at sales tax by leasing.

Do you want to have a BMW out of warranty? If not and you are keeping it past 50k are you willing to spring for the extended warranty and extended maintenance 3-4k?

I would never lease a car that will go beyond the orignal warranty period for then you are paying for a warranty that you may not totally use, and there are some repairs that you can live with while driving knowing you are going to turn the car in. However you might and probably will be charged for this at lease turn in.

My short answer would be only lease a car to the original warranty period. So in your example you are talking about doing a 2 year lease but it is going to cost you 1500 exta per year in mileage if you do 25k a year, which adds 125 to your payment. I dont' know if there is a limit to how many miles you can buy to be honest. You would need 20k and I don't know if that is even feasible at .15 cents at lease inception. Perhaps someone can chime in with that answer.

Knowing you are going to spend 3k in mileage overage this cancels any tax advantage you would have leasing vs. buying. In fact you would probably be paying more for a lease when adding up the mileage overage combinded with the monthly tax on the payment.

The reality is that we can work all the numbers and get a valuation but you are just using your car too much). It will be expensive one way or the other. Do you have any tax advantages if you lease, this is a good way to sway your decision. Do you want a new car every 2 years?

If you are driving 25k a year maybe you can sell your house and just live in your car for it sounds like you are anyway.)
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  #80  
Old 09-14-2006, 05:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greginaz1 View Post
Not an easy answer...

Right now though with the MF's on the sedan being so high cash is the better alternative by$2400 or so on a 2 year lease by my Excel analysis.

2 year

Cash price: 41,070.0000
Tax+doc+lic: 4,364.6700
45,434.6700
Cash cost at 5%: 3,634.7736
Total: 49,069.4436

Out of pocket plus 5%: 7,464.7309
23 payments 18,523.8197
SD return (5,088.0479)
Payoff 28,298.7000
Tax 2,292.1947
30,590.8947
Total: 51,491.3974

Diff: 2,421.9538
Greg can you explain your analysis alittle more in detail. It appears to be thorough but I just don't know what it is analyzing.
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  #81  
Old 09-14-2006, 05:26 PM
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schley schley is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by srobmw View Post
I've been driving it for over a week now so I guess it's time to post the lease details.

Gross cap cost- $46,665.00

Cap cost reduction-$625.00
First payment- $701.98
Sec deposit- $ 0.00
Reg fees- $185.00
Sales tax- $2054.56
Sales tax - $50.81
(on cap cost)
Doc fee- $45.00
Oth ufrnt chg- $12.50
(beats the sh1t
out of me)
Total- $3674.85
Less deposit- $1000.00

Paid at delivery- $2674.85

Monthly payment- $701.98

Residual- $26662.60



This is for 36 months at 15k per year.

By no means a deal,but, it's no ripoff either. And I'm the first kid on the block with one. Plus it's probably close to $200 a month cheaper than the Competition Package M3 I was thinking about getting. So it works for me. And I love the damned thing.

Hope this helps all you prospective buyers

The 625 cap cost reduction is you paying the aquisition fee up front correct? That is a point many don't know. The aquisition fee is considered part of the cap cost and if you pay it up front you are taxed on it.
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  #82  
Old 09-14-2006, 05:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by schley View Post
Greg can you explain your analysis alittle more in detail. It appears to be thorough but I just don't know what it is analyzing.
It compares the total cost of using cash for a 2 year time period vs. total cost of a 24 month lease.

Total cash cost includes purchase price + doc, tax and license + the interest you would have earned if you still had that money.

Total lease cost includes out of pocket money (7 MSD's, first payment, doc and license) + interest on it you would have been earning on it + the cost of 23 other payments and some interest - MSD return + payoff amount at end of lease including tax.

Think about it for a bit and it will make sense.
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  #83  
Old 09-14-2006, 05:37 PM
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schley schley is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greginaz1 View Post
It compares the total cost of using cash for a 2 year time period vs. total cost of a 24 month lease.

Total cash cost includes purchase price + doc, tax and license + the interest you would have earned if you still had that money.

Total lease cost includes out of pocket money (7 MSD's, first payment, doc and license) + interest on it you would have been earning on it + the cost of 23 other payments and some interest - MSD return + payoff amount at end of lease including tax.

Think about it for a bit and it will make sense.
K thanks. Where does the value of the car at the end of 2 years depreciation factor in? If you lease you will never be upside down obviously because the residual is in the contract. In a 2 year purchase I think you are almost guarenteed of being upsidedown.
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  #84  
Old 09-14-2006, 05:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by schley View Post
K thanks. Where does the value of the car at the end of 2 years depreciation factor in? If you lease you will never be upside down obviously because the residual is in the contract. In a 2 year purchase I think you are almost guarenteed of being upsidedown.
It doesn't as this assumes BMW's residual to be accurate value which it is most of the time...it also assumes a buyout at the end of the lease to make the comparison easier.

Because it is a cash deal you are not really upside down as there is no payoff.

Being that cash cost is about 2400 lower in this case you can sell your car for the residual amount minus the 2400 to still break even...
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  #85  
Old 09-14-2006, 05:53 PM
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srobmw srobmw is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by schley View Post
The 625 cap cost reduction is you paying the aquisition fee up front correct? That is a point many don't know. The aquisition fee is considered part of the cap cost and if you pay it up front you are taxed on it.
You are correct. I made a faux pas in that post. Here's the way it should've been:

Agreed upon price......................$46,665
Aquisition fee..............................$ 625
Total gross cap cost....................$47,290

The rest of the figs should be correct.

Good catch.
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  #86  
Old 09-14-2006, 05:59 PM
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schley schley is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by srobmw View Post
You are correct. I made a faux pas in that post. Here's the way it should've been:

Agreed upon price......................$46,665
Aquisition fee..............................$ 625
Total gross cap cost....................$47,290

The rest of the figs should be correct.

Good catch.
No you weren't wrong at all. Technically the 625 if paid up front is a cap cost reduction.
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  #87  
Old 09-14-2006, 06:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greginaz1 View Post
It doesn't as this assumes BMW's residual to be accurate value which it is most of the time...it also assumes a buyout at the end of the lease to make the comparison easier.

Because it is a cash deal you are not really upside down as there is no payoff.

Being that cash cost is about 2400 lower in this case you can sell your car for the residual amount minus the 2400 to still break even...
I understand you trying to give an objective comparison tool, however I'm not sure if it takes into account the reality of resale vs. residual value at lease end as per BMWFS.

I'm not saying BMW doesn't have a good resale value, for they do. But to say they are accurate I think is distorting the truth IMO. We all know that a car depreciates the MOST in the first 1/2 years and then it loses less per year as the car ages.

But take a look at the BMWFS lease rates. Look at the difference in residual percentages from year 3-4. They are bigger then from years 2-3. Why? Because BMW wants the cars back to CPO and artificially either keeps them higher in years 2 & 3, or lowers them to unrealistic numbers in years 4 & 5. There is no way that a 2007 328 depreciates only 10% of its value from years 2-3 but then all the sudden loses 16% from year 3-4???????????????


I think your comparison tool can be useful, but to say that the residuals are accurate I think is a bit of a stretch IMO. No offense at all.
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Last edited by schley; 09-14-2006 at 06:15 PM.
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  #88  
Old 09-14-2006, 06:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by schley View Post
I understand you trying to give an objective comparison tool, however I'm not sure if it takes into account the reality of resale vs. residual value at lease end as per BMWFS.

I'm not saying BMW doesn't have a good resale value, for they do. But to say they are accurate I think is distorting the truth IMO. We all know that a car depreciates the MOST in the first 1/2 years and then it loses less per year as the car ages.

But take a look at the BMWFS lease rates. Look at the difference in residual percentages from year 3-4. They are bigger then from years 2-3. Why? Because BMW wants the cars back to CPO and artificially either keeps them higher in years 2 & 3, or lowers them to unrealistic numbers in years 4 & 5. There is no way that a 2007 328 depreciates only 10% of its value from years 2-3 but then all the sudden loses 16% from year 3-4???????????????


I think your comparison tool can be useful, but to say that the residuals are accurate I think is a bit of a stretch IMO. No offense at all.
I agree...it is guesswork...but, point is too that leases on the new E90's are not a no brainer like they used to be...mainly due to relatively high MF's on the new sedans plus what the Fed has done.

PS, I'm leaning cash too because I want some real flexibility in case the new M3 sedan WOW's the crap out me.

Last edited by missing23; 09-14-2006 at 06:24 PM.
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  #89  
Old 09-14-2006, 06:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greginaz1 View Post
It doesn't as this assumes BMW's residual to be accurate value which it is most of the time...it also assumes a buyout at the end of the lease to make the comparison easier.

Because it is a cash deal you are not really upside down as there is no payoff.

Being that cash cost is about 2400 lower in this case you can sell your car for the residual amount minus the 2400 to still break even...
Because it is a cash deal you don't have to take the bite of being upsidedown when you sell it, true. But that is because you already took it when you bought it.

Example the car cost 50k and you paid cash. You sold it for 35k. You paid 15k in depreciation and lost out on that 50k in investing it, as you use in your model.

The same 50k car you are financing. You owe 37k and you sold it for 35k. How much depreciation did you use? 13k and then 2k in being upsidedown for the total of 15k.

Your outlay is the exact same, so then you go to step 2 of the comparison which is what is your APR vs. % you could get in return for investing it?

You are still taking the same depreciation hit whether you pay it all up front or finance, because you are paying that 15k both ways, either all up front or 13k in finance then 2k being upsidedown.

The only financial factor as I see it in paying cash vs. financing is what is your APR vs. what % return you can get on the $ you would have used to pay cash for the car. The being upsidedown is a wash or am I missing something obvious? I love this thorough examination )
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  #90  
Old 09-14-2006, 06:32 PM
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Originally Posted by schley View Post
Because it is a cash deal you don't have to take the bite of being upsidedown when you sell it, true. But that is because you already took it when you bought it.

Example the car cost 50k and you paid cash. You sold it for 35k. You paid 15k in depreciation and lost out on that 50k in investing it, as you use in your model.

The same 50k car you are financing. You owe 37k and you sold it for 35k. How much depreciation did you use? 13k and then 2k in being upsidedown for the total of 15k.

Your outlay is the exact same, so then you go to step 2 of the comparison which is what is your APR vs. % you could get in return for investing it?

You are still taking the same depreciation hit whether you pay it all up front or finance, because you are paying that 15k both ways, either all up front or 13k in finance then 2k being upsidedown.

The only financial factor as I see it in paying cash vs. financing is what is your APR vs. what % return you can get on the $ you would have used to pay cash for the car. The being upsidedown is a wash or am I missing something obvious? I love this thorough examination )
Yeah, cash makes more sense when auto loan rates are higher than what you can get investing...you can pretty easily get 5% on money markets these days minus what you pay in taxes on that gain...and loan rates are in the 7% range...
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  #91  
Old 09-15-2006, 12:22 PM
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I was all ready to lease my upcoming ED 335, however when the lease rates came out I decided to purchase. My no money down lease came out to about $600/month! The MF came out to 7.4%, I was able to get loans for much less, so it seemed better to purchase.
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  #92  
Old 09-15-2006, 01:14 PM
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Ok here's my situation. I'm still undecided on which model I'll be buying. It will either be the 335i Coupe or 328i Coupe. I'm going to sell my current car which I own outright. After that I will have around 20K to use for my e92. Now I was debating putting 12K or so down which would make my monthly payments around $325.00 a month on the 328 and $450.00 on the 335. Is it best to put down less and make my monthlys higher? Confused. Keep in mind I'm talking Canadian figures here. Thanks
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  #93  
Old 09-15-2006, 02:24 PM
RiXst3r RiXst3r is offline
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My Deal:
335i Steptronic, Sport, Prem, ColdWthr, Paddles, Metallic, Comfort Access, Space Gray, Coral Red, Aluminum.

MSRP: $47,845
Negotiated Price: $46,235 = $1610 off MSRP
12k miles = 60% residual
MF .00225 (no security deposit)
$6,000 out of pocket (tax, title, 1st payment, down payment)

Total Monthly Payment = $538

gonna try to get the MF down to .002 next time I go in, but my dealer seems to have a fixed MF mark up from their acct dept, and doesnt give their salespeople the option to negotiate below that.

Last edited by RiXst3r; 09-15-2006 at 02:28 PM. Reason: update
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  #94  
Old 09-15-2006, 03:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Kid Eh View Post
Ok here's my situation. I'm still undecided on which model I'll be buying. It will either be the 335i Coupe or 328i Coupe. I'm going to sell my current car which I own outright. After that I will have around 20K to use for my e92. Now I was debating putting 12K or so down which would make my monthly payments around $325.00 a month on the 328 and $450.00 on the 335. Is it best to put down less and make my monthlys higher? Confused. Keep in mind I'm talking Canadian figures here. Thanks
The lease figures aren't great for the new 335's aren't great. But if you use MSD's and negotiate the buy rate then you can get it under 600. Don't put any money down on the lease and use that money for something else.

If you don't plan on keeping the car for 4 or more years then lease.

If you don't want to keep the car past the warranty period then lease.
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Old 09-15-2006, 03:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RiXst3r View Post
My Deal:
335i Steptronic, Sport, Prem, ColdWthr, Paddles, Metallic, Comfort Access, Space Gray, Coral Red, Aluminum.

MSRP: $47,845
Negotiated Price: $46,235 = $1610 off MSRP
12k miles = 60% residual
MF .00225 (no security deposit)
$6,000 out of pocket (tax, title, 1st payment, down payment)

Total Monthly Payment = $538

gonna try to get the MF down to .002 next time I go in, but my dealer seems to have a fixed MF mark up from their acct dept, and doesnt give their salespeople the option to negotiate below that.
Why would you put down money at lease inception but not use that for a security depost as that increases your MF by .00015. That will save you some moeny right there.
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Old 09-15-2006, 03:28 PM
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Can someone work out the numbers for us on 7 security deposits and the MF decrease.

This way people can see the difference in cap cost reduction and multiple security deposits.

The payments will obviously get lower and lower with the more you put down though... I look at it like this.. they are going to get your money now or later...if you prefer the to have a smaller payment every month, than the cap cost reduction is a must.
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Old 09-15-2006, 03:33 PM
RiXst3r RiXst3r is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by schley View Post
Why would you put down money at lease inception but not use that for a security depost as that increases your MF by .00015. That will save you some moeny right there.
Like I said in my post, I am going to try next time I go in... I can still change my mind about down payments and such up until a week from delivery, which isnt for 40 days or so... either way, $1600 off msrp is the best I have seen on here so far... dealer said out of the 10 or so they have sold so far, this is the first under MSRP by more than 500... most were at or above msrp.

Thanks for your input though, this is why I posted... negotiated price is as low as they will go, and its LOW on a car that is selling with none on the lot, and 6 cars on order..., as far as everything else (miles, MF, down payment, sec dep.) that is still all up in the air, I can change at will for a few more weeks still...

Last edited by RiXst3r; 09-15-2006 at 03:37 PM.
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  #98  
Old 09-15-2006, 03:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swordfish View Post
Can someone work out the numbers for us on 7 security deposits and the MF decrease.

This way people can see the difference in cap cost reduction and multiple security deposits.

The payments will obviously get lower and lower with the more you put down though... I look at it like this.. they are going to get your money now or later...if you prefer the to have a smaller payment every month, than the cap cost reduction is a must.
Dude, hate to be harsh here but use 'google' or search on this site and figure it out yourself...lazy, helpless people like you get hosed by dealers/finance people more often than not.

EDUCATE YOURSELF!!! It isn't rocket science for God's sakes.

You already have one ding against you as significant cap cost reduction is for people that don't know what they are doing...which you are proving with each post...
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Old 09-15-2006, 03:45 PM
RiXst3r RiXst3r is offline
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That was kinda harsh... go easy on the dude... cap cost reduction does suck as far as you can normally see, but if you do what I do, and put a few k down on your AMEX card and use the delta double miles to fly to hawaii for free first class, AND end up with a lower payment, then it aint all that bad bro.

Last edited by RiXst3r; 09-15-2006 at 03:55 PM.
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  #100  
Old 09-15-2006, 04:00 PM
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missing23 missing23 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RiXst3r View Post
That was kinda harsh... cap cost reduction does suck as far as you can normally see, but if you do what I do, and put a few k down on your AMEX card and use the delta double miles to fly to hawaii for free first class, AND end up with a lower payment, then it aint all that bad bro.
Bro, it is STUPID...do whatever you want with your $ but it makes very little financial sense...it amazes me how many people don't grasp it...plus you are not going to fly to Hawaii on a few grand worth of frequent flier miles.

People that focus on payments are doing just what the car dealer wants...and mostly people that don't completely understand what they are doing.

Who cares what the payment is? If you do you are probably overextending yourself...

Concentrate on sales price, acq fee, MF, MSD's, residual and misc. fees...if you educate yourself on these and bargain well the payment will fall into place.

Why put $ down on a car that could get totalled/stolen (which even though a long shot it does happen) when you can just stick that money in a bank, collect interest on it and pull out money from time to time to make the payment if you are that strapped.

I LAUGH at people that whine about a $600 payment but put $3000 or so down on a lease to lower it...that $3000 would pay for about 6 MONTHS of their stupid lease...and they are going to worry about decreasing their payment $100? $3000 in the bank would cover THIRTY $100 monthly withdrawals to lower your payment not counting the interest it is earning.

Do what you want...what do I really care...
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