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Do-It-Yourself H.Q.
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  #176  
Old 03-06-2010, 01:09 PM
bmwm3coupe bmwm3coupe is offline
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Many of our BMW's call for Esso LT 71141, which is covered by Maxlife.

I don't know what Esso VT77141 is nor which cars use it, so I can't help you there.

Summary of all of my ATF "adventures" is here:
http://bimmer.roadfly.com/bmw/forums/e39/9360227-7.html

Will
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  #177  
Old 03-06-2010, 01:19 PM
pohsib pohsib is offline
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Sorry. I meant LT 71141. I will check the local autoparts store and see if the certification is on the bottle because I cannot find it on the Valvoline product site for both Mercon V and MaxLife ATF
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  #178  
Old 03-06-2010, 02:35 PM
bmwm3coupe bmwm3coupe is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pohsib View Post
Sorry. I meant LT 71141. I will check the local autoparts store and see if the certification is on the bottle because I cannot find it on the Valvoline product site for both Mercon V and MaxLife ATF
No problem. If you follow my link above, and look at the first service, I have a close-up of the bottle that shows the LT 71141 on the back.
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  #179  
Old 03-11-2010, 01:51 PM
mike4mula mike4mula is offline
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This is a great write up and since my question is so late compared to when this was first posted, it may either confirm your good work, or bear out a fear that was planted by my transmission shop in town. When I first bought my 97 528 three years ago, I visited a transmission shop that has proven to be reputable, ssmart and has saved me a boatload of money of the many cars I've owned. I asked him about replacing this "lifetime" fluid since this car already had 200k miles on it and the fluid had never been replaced. His recommendation to me was to NOT replace it because in doing so, I would leave gaps that had previously been filled with varnishes, etc., and the transmission's life would be shortened considerably. His point was if it isn't broke, don't fix it. A question to all of you who have replaced your lifetime fluid: How has your transmission held up over these past few years siince you replaced the fluid?
I look forward to your feedback.
Thanks, MJP
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  #180  
Old 03-16-2010, 01:18 PM
Assimilator1 Assimilator1 is offline
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Good thread this one, loads of info

I've got a 2000 325i auto with a ZF box, 79k on the clock.
A point I'd like to make, at least on my car, the pan bolts are not made of ally they are steel.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bmwm3coupe View Post
From all of my extensive research on this subject for about 4-5 months, on all BMW boards, and lubrication-specific boards:

- MaxLife is not only compatible, but can be mixed with the OEM ESSO fluid. I did it as well.
- Besides MaxLife for shorter interval use (change every other year), the Amsoil Universal ATF is the only other fluid I would ever use, and it would of course allow for longer drain invertals.

I went the MaxLife route and have about 20K miles since the switch. Everything still perfect
Why does the Amsoil oil have a longer life?

Am I right in saying that Maxlife is better than Mercon V & is now the preferred Valvoline oil?

MJP
Whilst I can't answer you directly I'll give you a general answer which explains why I will be doing my car's auto oil.

Any moving mechanical part wears, this sheds tiny metallic particles into the oil, the bigger ones are caught by the filter - NO mesh/gauze type filter has an indefinite life, it will get clogged eventually & that will eventually restrict oil flow.
Smaller particles not caught by the filter will act as a fine grinding paste!, that's not good for long term life!
Also any build up of 'varnishes' etc in a auto box won't help it, if enough exists it could cause oil flow problems (probably fairly unlikely though) & could easily cause valves & solenoids to stick (much more likely).
Oh & in addition as already mentioned in this thread, no oil lasts forever, it will break down slowly but surely, losing it's correct viscosity.

I reckon when BMW say 'lifetime' oil they mean for the life of the gearbox as long as it lasts without oil changes!, it will last a lot longer with oil changes! (assuming no oil contamination of course).
I don't know how they ever had the nerve to do this!

Last edited by Assimilator1; 04-03-2010 at 05:35 AM.
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  #181  
Old 04-02-2010, 03:36 PM
rickyt31072 rickyt31072 is offline
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hi there, this is great, I am going to try this very soon on my e39 535 with only 63K on it - runs like new, want it to stay that way till I retire or die! Cheers...
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  #182  
Old 05-20-2010, 12:15 PM
Assimilator1 Assimilator1 is offline
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Well this is very frustrating, I wonder how many people here have tried to find alternate oils in the UK?

Out of this list:-

1. Valvoline Maxlife - Is the only one I can get at a semi-decent price (8/ltr from Europarts, bizarrely listed for Peugeot 405s!) & seems to be the only non-imported oil (it's sold in Lts not quarts)
2. Redline D4 ATF - Import only, cheapest I found was from Camskill for 12.20/Qt!
3. Amsoil ATF - Import only, found just one place that sells that at 14.50/Qt!! (Performance Oils)
4. Castrol Multi-Vehicle ATF (Now called Castrol Import Multi vehicle ATF btw) - Not available in the UK
5. Mobil 1 Synthetic ATF - Not available in the UK

Bearing in mind that I can get the Esso LT 71141 oil from VW at a trade price of 9.85/ltr I just as well stick to that!
Rip-off Britain strikes again , I can't get the cheaper good oils you guys in the USA can.

Now if someone has better searching skills than me then by all means post your results! Remember I'm in the UK.

Btw my car now has 82k miles on the clock...
Btw2 is bmwm3coupe still about?

Last edited by Assimilator1; 06-11-2010 at 06:28 PM.
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  #183  
Old 06-06-2010, 12:03 PM
mickey513 mickey513 is offline
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I know some of you have used the universal atf fluid with no problems so far but I would caution against it. Even Mobil 1, with their universal synthetic atf could not guarantee their fluid met all the ESSO LT 71141 specs even though they said it was "suitable" for BMW ESSO LT 71141 use:

http://www.mobil.com/USA-English/Mot...smissions.aspx

I suspect this applies to universal atf from, Castrol, Pennzoil, etc.,
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  #184  
Old 06-06-2010, 12:26 PM
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m5james m5james is offline
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I don't know if it's been mentioned on this thread or one of the other 20 something threads through at just about every BMW messageboard...

You are correct, it's only considered suitable. Esso is an extended life type of fluid, so in terms of life expectancy, no, Mobil 1 is not as good in that aspect as Esso. Castrol Multi Import Vehicle fluid is also what some would call suitable, but being that it's not even synthetic, I don't use it anymore anyways. For the price, Valvoline MaxLife is compatible, just as good, and far cheaper.

In my opinion, both as an owner and a mechanic, this point is moot if people just change their fluid on regular intervals anyways. BMW knows and has since rescinded the lifetime fill policy on their transmissions, and in not so many words has revised their statements to 100k. Personally, I don't go over 50k for simple drain and fills with a filter. I don't ever power flush..drop the pan, change the filter, get it within operating temperature that is required for an accurate filling...next car please.

I have yet in my time to see a failed transmission under my servicing schedule. Just last week I installed the 5HP24 from my 98 740iL into a customer 97 740iL because their transmission failed at 160k. Mine has a 130k and runs perfectly, and I atribute that to ignoring what BMW recommended and instead went with shear common sense...ALL fluids fail over time, even the liquid gold BMW sells.
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  #185  
Old 06-08-2010, 11:08 AM
Assimilator1 Assimilator1 is offline
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What happened to your 740?.....

Btw what do you mean by 'power flushing'? Running the engine to flush out the old oil from the cooler & torque convertor by disconnecting a cooler pipe?

mickey513
The assurances from Valvoline are considerably more robust. See links in 1st post IIRC.

Last edited by Assimilator1; 06-08-2010 at 11:09 AM.
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  #186  
Old 06-08-2010, 01:38 PM
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m5james m5james is offline
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Nothing bad happened, im just finally getting off my ass and doing the 6spd conversion.

Power flushing meaning removing the lines from the transmission cooler (integrated into the radiator) and using a machine that pushes new fluid in vs a gentle drain and fill. Even though a drain and fill doesnt get 100% of the fluid, every 50k is a good enough interval that the old fluid will stay nice and dilluted with new fluid.
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PERFORMANCE:///M5 6spd conv., Iron sleeves, L/W Teflon coated pistons, 3 angle valvejob, P&P head, cams, electric fan, CF intake tube w/aluminum heatshield, Magnaflow 14816'd
INTERIOR:
Hardwired V1 above rearview, 12" RE Audio DVC sub, MTX 81000D, silver trim, 5% tint
EXTERIOR:19" Beyern Mesh staggered, Shadowline kidneys, Axxis pads
01 X5 4.4 - F90BT, L5
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  #187  
Old 06-11-2010, 11:12 AM
Assimilator1 Assimilator1 is offline
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Ah good to hear it's still well .
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  #188  
Old 06-11-2010, 04:37 PM
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Hooray! Hooray! is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pohsib View Post
Hey guys,

I tried to find info from Valvoline's site on Maxlife and Mercon V but in none of the PDF's does it say that the oils are compatible with Esso VT77141.

http://www.valvoline.com/products/co...ssion-fluid/37
MaxLife is the ONLY other ATF recommended by at least one of the 3 ZF authorized tranny guys here in the USA www.dosebmw.com. Steve Dose is great, done thousands of these ZFs and only puts in the Esso LT 71141 back in because he ships most of his rebuilt ZFs all over the country and feels that the brown Esso LT 71141 ATF makes sleeping techs think twice before putting in regular red ATF. Maxlife happens to be red, but it is the stuff he suggests putting in and is only $4/qt ($2/qt on sale). I've got code 48 TC seal leak so am planning to do 3x flushes, all set up now for first filter / ATF.
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Last edited by Hooray!; 06-11-2010 at 04:41 PM.
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  #189  
Old 06-11-2010, 06:23 PM
Assimilator1 Assimilator1 is offline
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For anyone wanting confirmation from the horses mouth that the Audi/VW/Citroen/Peugeot oil is the same as the Esso LT 71141 (ZF now calling it LifeGuard 5) look at ZFs own site here (this took a lot of digging around!) http://www.zf.com/na/content/en/nort...ure_pc_us.html & click on the 'List of Lubricants TE-ML 11'.
Direct link to List of Lubricants TE-ML 11 http://www.zf.com/na/content/media/u..._11_en0700.pdf ,strangely that list isn't as upto date as the one on at www.tsgparts.net site (Tech info>Trans fluids>ZF Lube List).

This old TE-ML 11 lube list from 2004 shows that ZF used to list it as LT71141 http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&sou...3u6FL37RXNsOaQ

For those of us forced or want to use Esso LT 71141 that is.

Btw re UK prices, the 8.38/ltr I mentioned earlier doesn't include VAT. So it's 9.85/ltr , yes the Valvoline oil is cheaper (8/ltr) but not by a large margin as it is in the USA. Hence I've gone for the Esso oil.

Last edited by Assimilator1; 06-11-2010 at 06:25 PM.
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  #190  
Old 06-11-2010, 06:46 PM
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Hard call, after 75,000 miles the MaxLife has additives that I'm told help prevent issues that ESSO is not designed to do in a new tranny... over here it is a no brainer $4 vs. $20 especially if you plan to do a 3x filter / pan drop / ATF / ATF / ATF... even with the price getting close, from what I have read, I might still go with the MaxLife as aged bmw TC seals need TLC.
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  #191  
Old 06-12-2010, 08:44 AM
Assimilator1 Assimilator1 is offline
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Interesting about the Maxlife additives, didn't know that. Where did you read that btw?
What do you mean by 'TC' seals?

Why drop the oil+filter 3 times? I thought twice was enough?
I probably won't even being doing that afterall anyway, as I may well be selling the car soon, can't afford the crazy fuel prices really . 1.20/ltr (=4.56/US Gal = $6.64/US Gal). And I do ~14k miles/yr.

Btw with 83,225 on the clock I finally dropped the auto oil & filter today , god the old stuff looked rough! It was nearly black!, looked like heavily used petrol engine oil! The magnets weren't too bad, they had a covering of metallic particles but I don't think they were 'saturated'. Didn't see any metallic particles floating around the pan . Naturally the filter gauze was nearly black.

Because I'm a mechanic I had access to a 2 poster lift (I feel sorry for you guys doing it on the floor!), oil plunger, oil drainer & laptop diagnostics for the ATF temperature reading. I'd changed the O/S suspension arm prior to doing the ATF change, even so the g/box was still in temp range at 34C (which felt just luke warm on the pan). Inccidently it warmed up very quickly to the high 40s once I got to the running stage of the refill (didn't time it but I think it was 5-10mins), barely had to time to fill it to the level!.
I then saw that I still had a whole bottle left (1ltr) so I thought I'd flush it a bit by pumping most of the rest in (bar 200mls) & letting it drain out whilst it was running, it was still coming out a dark brown!. Still that should nudge the oil changed up a bit from ~71% (used 6.8lts). Although by then the temp had gone upto 55C, I'll check it again during the week to make sure the level is OK.

No problems really , bar the plunger I was using to fill the box, it's pipe only just fitted into the drain hole!
Oh & for reference the level plug is on the rear left of the g/box, not the rear face as I mistakenly 1st thought.
I wasn't rushing & it took me ~2.5 hrs, but of course I had a lift & an air ratchet for all those screws .

Last edited by Assimilator1; 06-12-2010 at 04:21 PM.
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  #192  
Old 06-12-2010, 10:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Assimilator1 View Post
Interesting about the Maxlife additives, didn't know that. Where did you read that btw?
What do you mean by 'TC' seals?

Why drop the oil+filter 3 times? I thought twice was enough?
TC = Torque Converter, code 48 is the known BMW TC main seal issue. code 48 is the tranny sensing a slip at lock up in 3rd 4th 5th. Often caused by a small tear in the TC seal... apparently also caused by old ATF... the label on the MaxLife talks about the additives specifically designed for over 75,000 mile tranny's. I also called / emailed Valvoline to talk to a tech and get the scoop on their oil vs. ESSO.

The ESSO is an oil colored ATF so it would get browner with age, the red ATFs tend to stay red but they too brown.

If you are not going to flush the system, the idea is #1 pan drop / filter / ATF fill #2 after 10 miles of driving ATF drain / refill #3 after 1000 miles ATF drain / refill. Gets 90% of the old ATF out and what the heck by #3 you are an expert at it so might as well change it out with every other oil change, will only cost 6qtx$4 each time!
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  #193  
Old 06-12-2010, 04:22 PM
Assimilator1 Assimilator1 is offline
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Yea I see, & I'd agree but Maxlife costs 8/ltr ($11.65) here, only 2/ltr cheaper than the Esso stuff, & I think I might be able to get that cheaper next time. So this batch of Esso oil cost me ~68 (~$99). OK so the Maxlife would of been 56 but I thought the extra 12 was worth the extra piece of mind.

Going by the ops 1st post changing it twice changes 91% of the oil.
I think changing it every other oil change is rather excessive .

Nice car you've got btw , 5 series E39s are one of my favourite bimmers .
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  #194  
Old 06-12-2010, 06:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Assimilator1 View Post
Yea I see, & I'd agree but Maxlife costs 8/ltr ($11.65) here, only 2/ltr cheaper than the Esso stuff, & I think I might be able to get that cheaper next time. So this batch of Esso oil cost me ~68 (~$99). OK so the Maxlife would of been 56 but I thought the extra 12 was worth the extra piece of mind.

Going by the ops 1st post changing it twice changes 91% of the oil.
I think changing it every other oil change is rather excessive .

Nice car you've got btw , 5 series E39s are one of my favourite bimmers .
ESSO here is $18-$20 @ qt! ESSO for one ATF is $120. Joking about changing the ATF every oil change but I am going to go onto BIMMER Mag's "old school" maintenance schedule with includes ATF changes every 30,000 miles. I'm going with MaxLife this time and will see how it works out but I do plan to do a 3x refill to get as much of the old ATF out as possible... for me, I'm hopeful the friction additives and seal conditioners solve my code 48 issue.
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  #195  
Old 06-22-2010, 10:53 AM
Assimilator1 Assimilator1 is offline
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I'm gonna stick to the E36 auto oil change interval which IIRC works out to about 60k miles, although the likely hood is that I will sell the car soon & won't have to change it, that's also why I won't be doing a 2nd flush after 1000 miles as I'd originally planned.
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  #196  
Old 07-03-2010, 08:15 PM
didymos didymos is offline
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I am not sure if somebody wrote that but Pelican discontinued those good deals on ATF filters, they still list them on the web but once you put them to the basket, over $100 item appears. I called them up and yeap, no more. Some other places have it for $80 though (plus shipping).
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  #197  
Old 07-07-2010, 07:39 PM
didymos didymos is offline
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ha, I read the number from the trans pan, looked on websites, turned out it is Derxon VI type BUT when visited the dealer, they told me that is actually replaced every 100k, I am at 60k know and wonder what to do: drain it, change it all I can with the new filter or wait till 100k?
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  #198  
Old 07-09-2010, 10:12 AM
Assimilator1 Assimilator1 is offline
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The E36s had a change interval of every 2nd Inspection 2 service, which on my car worked out to about 60k miles, I'd change it now if I were you.

Btw are you sure about the Dextron VI thing??? that's the 1st I've heard about that one, unless your box is not meant to have Esso LT 71141?
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  #199  
Old 07-18-2010, 08:18 PM
didymos didymos is offline
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well, the sticker on the pan lists 83 22 0 024 359 but dealer states that "Part number 83220024359 was superseded by part number 83220397114" and then next to it is "TRANS OIL DEXRON VI". Dealer added that if replaced, use only synthetic so seems that the only option, other than fluid from a dealer, is Valvoline Dexron VI Full Synthetic ($4 per gt from NAPA). So that is one thing.

Second, I wonder why some recommend to make three drains in short intervals and filer change with the first one, instead of the opposite. To me it makes sense to use as clean fluid on new filter as possible, especially that filter is the most expensive part in this service.
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  #200  
Old 07-19-2010, 05:12 AM
33beto 33beto is offline
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You better double check on that statement from dealer. I know GM trannys use the DEXRON VI, but the ZF. They are two dufferent animals.
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