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E36/7 Z3 (1996-2002)
E36/7 Z3 Roadster, Z3 coupe, Z3 M Roadster and Z3 M Coupe talk with our gurus here.

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  #1  
Old 09-26-2006, 10:33 AM
Cornhusker Cornhusker is offline
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New 335i turbo engine in base Z4 Coupe?

Autoblog recently put up a link to Car and Driver and the new 335i Sedan's specs. The sedan ripped through 0-60 in 4.8 seconds. Now, if you consider the base price for the sedan is practically the same as the Z4 3.0si coupe, AND the performance is the same or better than the M Coupe, do any of you see the new twin turbo engine making it into the Z4 anytime soon? If not, how does BMW justify the performance gap between a family hauler and their sports coupe?

Check the link
http://www.caranddriver.com/shortroa...35i-sedan.html
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  #2  
Old 09-26-2006, 10:40 AM
Sauceboy01 Sauceboy01 is offline
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Well, the M Coupe is currently behind in engine updates. It wont be long before we see the 335i motor replacing the current 3.0 si and within a year or 2 the Z M Coupes will have the new 400hp+ upcoming m3 motor. History repeats itself.
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  #3  
Old 09-26-2006, 10:50 AM
Cornhusker Cornhusker is offline
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I hope you are right...
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  #4  
Old 09-26-2006, 10:51 AM
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drove a 335 last wkend. car's got some pull...
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  #5  
Old 09-26-2006, 11:09 AM
ruckmjr ruckmjr is offline
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I think its great what BMW is doing with the 3 series, but...a 3600# car w/300 hp in 4.8 seconds? I'm skeptical.
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  #6  
Old 09-26-2006, 11:16 AM
hash hash is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ruckmjr View Post
I think its great what BMW is doing with the 3 series, but...a 3600# car w/300 hp in 4.8 seconds? I'm skeptical.
i agree 4.8sec does not sound right, unless bmw really underestimated the horsepower in the 335
even if the new 3er had 1500rwhp i just didn't like it, sedan nor coupe
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  #7  
Old 09-26-2006, 11:21 AM
Bill Dance Bill Dance is offline
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Originally Posted by Cornhusker View Post
AND the performance is the same or better than the M Coupe
Maybe the same performance as an s52 z3 M Coupe. What is your criteria, 0-60?
I believe that an s54 z3 or z4 M coupe would dominate the 335 sedan or coupe on any track, stock for stock.
I know the 335 engines are underrated from the factory, but that is a little overboard.
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  #8  
Old 09-26-2006, 12:04 PM
Z3Papa Z3Papa is offline
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A 335 in a Z4 coupe would easily beat a stock S52 M coupe on a straight pull. Let's face facts, the difference is not merely the HP but more importantly the torque which is rated at well above the current MZ4 coupe. While this not to be critical of the S52 coupes which are easily modified, there day of claiming to be at or near the top of the heap (based on stock performance). That was the case for the 1.9 when the 2.8 came out, the 2.8 when the M's came out, for the E30 and E36 M's when the most recent version came, and will be the case for the new MZ4's if and when the V8 is stuck in there.
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  #9  
Old 09-26-2006, 12:48 PM
RedBread RedBread is offline
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Hey, I'm an S52 owner with little ego about where things are going. I had a guy in a Legacy GT put the hurt on me not long ago. (it's still a blast on a track, something no Subie really appears to be, without gravel at least)

I think the tuning potential of the 3.0tt is going to be very impressive. Seems like a few independent sources have found stock power to be more in the range of 340hp/340tq and Shiv at Visnu is already tuning away.

Now if they'd just find something interesting to stick it in, like the Z4 or closer to my heart, the 1er three door there are pics floating around of.
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  #10  
Old 09-26-2006, 04:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ruckmjr View Post
I think its great what BMW is doing with the 3 series, but...a 3600# car w/300 hp in 4.8 seconds? I'm skeptical.
Automobile magazine did two separate runs on the dyno with two separate 335i coupes. I believe the second sample put down even more power than the first one--it hit a peak of 299-hp at the wheels. Looks like BMW put down a very conservative horsepower figure to prevent eating into sales of the outgoing E46 M3--you can imagine the damage to 2006 sales if word got out that the newer, cheaper 335i put down M3-type performance numbers.
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  #11  
Old 09-26-2006, 04:52 PM
docarut docarut is offline
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These Mag roadtests 0-60 are usually done with high rpm clutch drop. I think most of us would not subject our cars to this degree of abuse very often or at all. Life of clutch would be shortened considerably and stress on the rest of drivetrain would also be issue. I know, we buy these cars to drive aggressively......

Bob
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  #12  
Old 09-26-2006, 05:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ruckmjr View Post
I think its great what BMW is doing with the 3 series, but...a 3600# car w/300 hp in 4.8 seconds? I'm skeptical.

It certainly has not been done with that power/weight ratio before, the 300 hp Mustang which is much lighter is 5.3 0-60.

I am very skeptical & doubtful, I do like the 335's though
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  #13  
Old 09-26-2006, 06:43 PM
RedBread RedBread is offline
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The Mustang GT weighs in at 3485 pounds, makes 300 hp at 5750, and 320 lb/ft at 4500, not really "much" lighter, just 4%. The 335i seems to be making more on the line of 340 hp at 5700 and 340 lb/ft at 1500 and it has lower gearing, much more low end torque, a six speed and a higher redline.

Some S54 M Coupes were in the mid 4's with nearly 100 lb/ft of torque less and a weak 3.15, sure they weighed nearly 500 pounds less, but with the extra torque and stronger gearing, I don't think that the 335i numbers are all that far fetched.

A 3.0tt in a Z4 coupe should still weigh under 3000 pounds and would obviously make quick work of an S54 M Coupe (at least in a straight line) any way you cut it. If the V8 really doesn't fit, then I'd be shocked to see a turbo Z4.
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  #14  
Old 09-26-2006, 07:57 PM
bmwman bmwman is offline
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I really hope BMW puts the 3.0tt engine on the Z4 coupe. The tuning potential of that engine is great.
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  #15  
Old 09-26-2006, 08:07 PM
Cornhusker Cornhusker is offline
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I simply find it hard to believe that BMW would want to cannibalize its own sales, thus the possibility of a horsepower boost in the Z4 coupe. I'm fully aware that a sedan is completely different than the Z4 (such as handling), but doesn't it slightly bother current Z4 owners (specifically the M coupe) that BMW has this amazing engine, and they might not combine it with the Z4's amazing handling traits? If there is talk of a V8 going in the M coupe, why not the 3.0tt in the base coupe? I'm especially concerned that the 335i is the same price as the Z4 3.0si, but the 3.0tt is a much better engine (imo).
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  #16  
Old 09-26-2006, 11:14 PM
iSpY iSpY is offline
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Gents,

I wish the same thing also. I *really* hope BMW give update teh engine in Z4/MZ4, just like what they did to Z3/MZ3 in 2001 (the last two years for production).

Let's keep the fingers crossed!

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  #17  
Old 09-27-2006, 01:35 AM
hash hash is offline
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if BMW decide to put the 3.0tt engine in the Z4 Coupe, in my opinion they have to also put the M3 V8 in the Z4 M Coupe, and they have to provide also a 2.5 or 2.5si as well.

I really doubt any of the above would ever happen, but in case they do it then the current generation Z4 should stay till around 2010
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  #18  
Old 09-27-2006, 08:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hash View Post
if BMW decide to put the 3.0tt engine in the Z4 Coupe, in my opinion they have to also put the M3 V8 in the Z4 M Coupe, and they have to provide also a 2.5 or 2.5si as well.

I really doubt any of the above would ever happen, but in case they do it then the current generation Z4 should stay till around 2010

Agreed. The 3.0tt is a definate downgrade from the current Z4M power & I do not see standard Z4 3.0 buyers wanting the power option since they have the abilty to order the faster 333 hp now.

So I agree BMW would not offer the 3.0tt in the standard Z4 without uping the Z4M to a V8.

I really doubt either.
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  #19  
Old 09-27-2006, 09:07 AM
The Hero The Hero is offline
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How much do engine retrofits cost? Engines gotta die someday anyway right?
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  #20  
Old 09-27-2006, 09:27 AM
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brave1heart brave1heart is offline
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I would not want a V8 or the 3.0tt engine in the Z4M. I think 330 HP is plenty for a car of this weight as long as you know how to drive it well. A V8 would not allow a 50:50 weight distribution, which is essential for BMWs and especially Z4s. I personally have always liked BMW engines for their light weight and high-revving vibration-free power and I would not like to spoil that with turbo lag, impercetible as it is. BMW is positioning the 3.0tt engine for people who really want V8 performance with the economy of a 6-cyl. The 335 is bigger, mich porkier, optioned for luxury only, and it even lacks a mechanical limted slip. Without a LSD, you cannot put all the power down to the pavement. Turbos are of course more tunable than naturally aspirated engines and I am sure that tuners will be able to extract 400+ HP from that car. But by the time you add a LSD and lighten the car, it would be too expensive and you can get much better performance from other, cheaper cars. And the 335 will end up being a nice luxocruiser for people who want power in the low RPMs for street driving and will not be driving the car at the track. Just the way BMW intended it
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  #21  
Old 09-27-2006, 09:35 AM
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Originally Posted by brave1heart View Post
I would not want a V8 or the 3.0tt engine in the Z4M. I think 330 HP is plenty for a car of this weight as long as you know how to drive it well. A V8 would not allow a 50:50 weight distribution, which is essential for BMWs and especially Z4s. I personally have always liked BMW engines for their light weight and high-revving vibration-free power and I would not like to spoil that with turbo lag, impercetible as it is. BMW is positioning the 3.0tt engine for people who really want V8 performance with the economy of a 6-cyl. The 335 is bigger, mich porkier, optioned for luxury only, and it even lacks a mechanical limted slip. Without a LSD, you cannot put all the power down to the pavement. Turbos are of course more tunable than naturally aspirated engines and I am sure that tuners will be able to extract 400+ HP from that car. But by the time you add a LSD and lighten the car, it would be too expensive and you can get much better performance from other, cheaper cars. And the 335 will end up being a nice luxocruiser for people who want power in the low RPMs for street driving and will not be driving the car at the track. Just the way BMW intended it


BMW has it right.
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  #22  
Old 09-27-2006, 11:42 AM
whiskey.org whiskey.org is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brave1heart View Post
I would not want a V8 or the 3.0tt engine in the Z4M. I think 330 HP is plenty for a car of this weight as long as you know how to drive it well. A V8 would not allow a 50:50 weight distribution, which is essential for BMWs and especially Z4s. I personally have always liked BMW engines for their light weight and high-revving vibration-free power and I would not like to spoil that with turbo lag, impercetible as it is. BMW is positioning the 3.0tt engine for people who really want V8 performance with the economy of a 6-cyl. The 335 is bigger, mich porkier, optioned for luxury only, and it even lacks a mechanical limted slip. Without a LSD, you cannot put all the power down to the pavement. Turbos are of course more tunable than naturally aspirated engines and I am sure that tuners will be able to extract 400+ HP from that car. But by the time you add a LSD and lighten the car, it would be too expensive and you can get much better performance from other, cheaper cars. And the 335 will end up being a nice luxocruiser for people who want power in the low RPMs for street driving and will not be driving the car at the track. Just the way BMW intended it

it's entirely possible for the aluminum V8 to be lighter than the iron block M3 motor. plus it will be a shorter motor that can be placed farther back in the chassis

if the V8 is lighter, the 400 hp version would handle better than the current M roadster. I'm not the only person who has noticed the change (for the negative) that the extra weight on the nose of the Z4 M roadster creates. (50.7% on the front of the M, 49.9% on the 3.0si)

Last edited by whiskey.org; 09-27-2006 at 11:48 AM.
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  #23  
Old 09-27-2006, 12:18 PM
Cornhusker Cornhusker is offline
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Originally Posted by M3Mike View Post
Agreed. The 3.0tt is a definate downgrade from the current Z4M power & I do not see standard Z4 3.0 buyers wanting the power option since they have the abilty to order the faster 333 hp now.

So I agree BMW would not offer the 3.0tt in the standard Z4 without uping the Z4M to a V8.

I really doubt either.

What many people are forgetting is that the 3.0tt is a downgrade on paper, but the real world testing by magazines have proven it to be a beast with close to 300 rwhp. Plus, why would I spend an extra 10 grand for the current M Z4 when the guy in the 335i is getting better horsepower (and newer technology) for 10 grand less? I don't know how BMW can justify the price difference. Isn't this exactly what auto manufacturers want to avoid? (i.e. one model being a better value than another model in the same lineup) It reminds me a lot of the Porsche Cayman S taking a shot at its brother the 911.
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  #24  
Old 09-27-2006, 12:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Cornhusker View Post
What many people are forgetting is that the 3.0tt is a downgrade on paper, but the real world testing by magazines have proven it to be a beast with close to 300 rwhp. Plus, why would I spend an extra 10 grand for the current M Z4 when the guy in the 335i is getting better horsepower (and newer technology) for 10 grand less? I don't know how BMW can justify the price difference. Isn't this exactly what auto manufacturers want to avoid? (i.e. one model being a better value than another model in the same lineup) It reminds me a lot of the Porsche Cayman S taking a shot at its brother the 911.

A fallacy. The current Z4M motor would leave a 335tt in a Z4 licking its butt.

You are very misguided on this, but I will let you figure it out with more testing & reviews etc..

The word "turbo" has a huge marketing effect on youth.
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  #25  
Old 09-27-2006, 12:27 PM
whiskey.org whiskey.org is offline
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Originally Posted by M3Mike View Post
A fallacy. The current Z4M motor would leave a 335tt in a Z4 licking its butt.

You are very misguided on this, but I will let you figure it out with more testing & reviews etc..

The word "turbo" has a huge marketing effect on youth.
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