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E90/E91/E92/E93 (2006 - 2013)
The E9X is the 4th evolution of the BMW 3 series including a highly tuned twin turbo 335i variant pushing out 300hp and 300 ft. lbs. of torque. BMW continues to show that it sets the bar for true driving performance! -- View the E9X Wiki

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  #1  
Old 09-27-2006, 07:15 PM
shiv@vishnu shiv@vishnu is offline
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Take 3: Vishnu Tuning Update

Those who have been following our progress over the last couple of weeks probably know where we last left off. The last we left off, we control over spark timing, boost control, and some marginal control over fuel. As of last night, we got FULL control over fuel. So, as it stands, we have control over everything we ever wanted to get in control of

For those who are haven't been following our progress, here's a little synopsis along with a bunch of dyno graphs.

Two weeks ago, we purchased and drove home in our brand new 335i Coupe (space grey, red interior, 6sp manual). After 75 miles of break in (lol), we brought it to Modacar in Livermore, CA. Although we have a fancy AWD Dyno Dynamics dyno, most people are more familiar with Dynojet readings than anything else. However, Modacar's dyno does read lower than other Dynojets. Running our normal 91oct gas (the best we get in CA unfortunately), our car put down a repeatable 276-277whp and 287-288lb-ft of torque. On other dynojets, the car would probably have put down around 285whp and 295lb-ft of torque (as measured by Automobile magazine, for instance). But since this is the dyno we are using, we're going to stick with these numbers. Just as long as we don't move around from dyno to dyno, all this numbers are perfectly valid and useful for comparing against one and another. Also, all runs were done in 4th and taken right up to fuel cut (~7000rpm)

Stock Run:


After baselining the car, we started our tuning process. We opted to use a slightly modified version of our Xede computer. It is similar to the unit we use for Evos except that it need to read a different crank trigger (60-2 vs 4 teeth) and a T-MAP sensor (0-5 analog voltage vs. Freq wave in Hz). There were also some other sensor differences but we could adjust for that in the Xede software. The first thing we got in control of was ignition timing. We experimented with a lot of different approaches. We found that we could add in timing during cruise to improve fuel economy as well as reduce oil temps. Partial throttle torque was also improved. The next thing we got in control of was calculated load. This had an effect on the boost curve and some secondary effects on fueling. Not nearly enough control as we were looking to eventually get but good enough for an initial stab at tuning. And the results were reasonably good given our inability to control fuel properly.

Results (stock vs. 1st attempt):


So what is exactly wrong with the fuel curve? Check out this Air/Fuel chart:


First of all, feel free to ignore the first 1000rpm of the AFR trace. Tailpipe sniffing widebands suffer from a time delay especially at low engine speeds when exhaust velocity/volume is too low for them to get an accurate reading of what is happening at that exact time. But even looking above 3000rpm, we saw AFRs as lean as 15.5:1. And this under full boost! Lean to say the least. At higher engine speeds, AFR worked its way back into the nice and rich side of things. But the AFR in the midrange was odd. Odd enough to make me look for air pumps which would explain the lean readings. I didn't find any. Obviously BMW tuned this car this way for a reason. Probably for fuel economy and certainly for emissions. Does it compromise power and safety? We wonít know for sure until we try something else, no? More on that later on. In our first tuning attempt, we made very very little change to AFR. If anything, our tuning resulting in it being slightly richer at high rpm ("tuned" is the green line, stock is the blue line). But with AFR so lean in the midrange, we really wanted to get full control over fueling ASAP. But at this stage, all most of our gains came from tweaking the timing curve, bumping up boost by ~1psi and eliminating much of the high rpm boost taper. And the results were ok. With this half assed toon...er tune, we picked up over 32whp at peak and a whopping 70whp at 7000rpm.

That was last week. This week, we made some really good progress. Not only did we get full control over boost but we also got every last bit of control of fueling. Yay! This means that we can try all sorts of fuel/timing/boost combinations to see which ones work the best (makes good power with good repeatability, low temps and sufficient knock resistance.) Another thing we did was made a cat-back exhaust system for it. Nothing fancy. Just a one-off prototype that we pieced together with 2.5" crushed bent piping and standard magnaflow mufflers. It replaces the exhaust just after the downpipes. The two factory cats in the downpipe are still in place. But the secondary cats, along with a bunch of bendy exhaust tubing, was all replaced. If we can make good power with this quickie exhaust, we should do really well with a production version offering larger volume mufflers, mandrel bends, etc,. In a way, I wish I had waited to put on the exhaust later and just re-dynoed the car with just our new-found fuel and boost control. But I didn't. So shoot me. We could always stick the stock exhaust back on next week and dyno it again. But hey, I was impatient for a fast car that actually sounded fast

With all the engine controls we ever wanted and a new exhaust, the car picked up good power. We limited boost to 11psi for now since we are still running our 91oct pump gas. But with proper boost control now in our pocket (and a 3rd boost control solenoid under the hood being controlled by the Xede), we had a rock solid boost curve with 11psi at 2500rpm, holding flat until 6000rpm and then gently dropping off to 10psi by 7000rpm. Before, during our "first attempt", it would bounce around a little bit +/- 1psi.

New Results
Stock vs. Xede Tuned and cat-back exhaust
91oct


Even compared to our "first attempt", our second attempt with exhaust stacks up well:


However, the biggest improvement we were able to get was with respect to Air/Fuel ratio. Here's an AFR graph comparing a stock car making 277whp to our tuned car making 332whp (green curve):


Yes, the tuned run is running over 2 FULL points richer in the midrange than the stock run! In fact, it substantially richer than the stock run everywhere except 6000rpm where we were able to sneak a bit more power out by running a little leaner than stock.

Still, by virtue of the new fuel mapping, it's reasonable to say that the tuned car is running more knock-free, safer and cooler than the stock car. All while making a boat load more power and torque. All in all, we're pretty happy with the car. It is fast as hell and now sounds nice as well. In first gear, we get virtually no traction at full throttle. In second gear, the car is capable of spinning its wheels as well if the road gets even slightly bumpy. If you drive with the traction control on (yuck), you see that light flash on and off all throughout the first 3 gears :thumsup:

So how much power is left in there? Well, it's clear that we are limited by our 91oct gas. With every 0.5 degrees of timing I sneaked in, the car would pick up a few horsepower. So with better gas, we'll see more power. And with race gas, I'm sure we'll see big gains. But on 93 octane, I'd expect to see another 10whp. We'll probably pick up some more power if we were to eliminate the factory cats in the downpipes. But that would have an big impact on emissions which is something we want to avoid at this point. There are still a few things we want to try out. There's still more power to be had with our current set-up. But for now, I'm just going to beat the tar out of the car and put it through its paces. One step at a time.

There were some people videotaping todayís dyno session. Iíll try to get a hold of some of that video and post it up. Next week, we're going to bring out our video camera and do some on-the-road acceleration test, pitting our tuned 335i against our 100% stock Porsche 996 and our 100% stock Evo IX. Should be fun!

Stay tuned...

Cheers,
Shiv
Vishnu Performance Systems
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  #2  
Old 09-27-2006, 07:23 PM
picus picus is offline
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  #3  
Old 09-27-2006, 07:31 PM
shiv@vishnu shiv@vishnu is offline
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Hi guys,
Just one last bit of info. When evaluating a tun of a car, one of the most important things is consistency. Being able to back up your run, over and over again, means A LOT. It means that the car isn't protesting the way it is running. The knock sensors aren't intervening. The fuel trims are sliding around. And everything (intercooler, radiator, charge pipes, etc,. are up to normal temp (not artifically cold). We NEVER show a single-run dyno graph. Simply because it doesn't mean anything anything more than the car made that power once, under one particular condition. While its temping to post an extra strong "hail Mary" run after a loong cool down, with a little extra boost, running a little leaner, etc,., we'd much rather show something that is repeatable and safe. For example, here are the last four runs we made before leaving the dyno today:



Cheers,
shiv
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  #4  
Old 09-27-2006, 07:35 PM
klaxian klaxian is offline
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Awesome! Thanks for keeping us posted! I'm sure most of us eagerly await your posts.

I do have a few questions if you don't mind... Is your goal still to make a chip that is installable in a stock 335i in about 15 minutes? Are you optimizing for a specific octane rating? How has your gas mileage been after these latest changes? How do you think the stock exhaust would affect the results? Is the chip you're developing going to be safe with the stock exhaust? Will it be safe over time for the car in general? Will it cause any errors or warnings in the car?

Thanks for taking the time to quell our curiosity. We are all VERY interested!
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Old 09-27-2006, 07:48 PM
canuck335i canuck335i is offline
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  #6  
Old 09-27-2006, 07:54 PM
VoyagerDude VoyagerDude is offline
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Originally Posted by klaxian View Post
Awesome! Thanks for keeping us posted! I'm sure most of us eagerly await your posts.

I do have a few questions if you don't mind... Is your goal still to make a chip that is installable in a stock 335i in about 15 minutes? Are you optimizing for a specific octane rating? How has your gas mileage been after these latest changes? How do you think the stock exhaust would affect the results? Is the chip you're developing going to be safe with the stock exhaust? Will it be safe over time for the car in general? Will it cause any errors or warnings in the car?

Thanks for taking the time to quell our curiosity. We are all VERY interested!
Yes I have the same exact questions
good job guys
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  #7  
Old 09-27-2006, 08:22 PM
BoLaS BoLaS is offline
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Shiv, you truley are a Hero

I dont know about the other members, but im actually awaiting YOUR tunning to buy my 335i! Ive been so intrigued by the hidden potential this motor has that ive been glued to my computer screen, constantly refreshing it to see if there has been any follow ups on the project!!!
you are an inspiration to many and you are definately a master at work

~as far as the 335i goes, the increase in HP is great! how much more aggressive does it drive now? Can you FEEL the turbo kick in a lot more now? -the drive was a mighty de-sensitized 'turbo' feel compared to what one would expect- Question about the upgraded exhaust and tunning... has any tunning (cat removal) you've done raised any CHK engine lights..

~now the important question... how far are you planning on taking this project? Will you be considering a later physical Turbo Upgrade (if so which ones), FMIC, CAMS, ...etc? AND will there every be a possiblity of having a sort of Boost Controller -Profec B for instance- to have a low and high boost setting? (i always loved driving my car at a more than reasonable daily driver psi, then up it when it was needed it always felt good knowing i have more power at my diposition than what i eventually adapt to while constant daily driving...
All in all, the only other thing I can say is thanx for everything and keep the updates coming!
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  #8  
Old 09-27-2006, 09:18 PM
joshknot joshknot is offline
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Absolutely top-notch work, Shiv. I'll second everybody else's comments; I got so excited to see another update today.

You are single-handedly helping me justify getting into the 335.

-Josh
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  #9  
Old 09-28-2006, 03:46 AM
chris202 chris202 is offline
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WOW...My wife asked what I was reading for having this wide mischievous grin on my face this morning....I cant possibly tell her my plans for this car that will void the warranty the second a chip is installed or the car is flashed. So the question is, can it be put back to stock for the times the car gets serviced?
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  #10  
Old 09-28-2006, 05:47 AM
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theslik1 theslik1 is offline
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I second that. Now Bimmerphiles are finally gonna find out why turbo guys are always grinning.
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  #11  
Old 09-28-2006, 06:13 AM
akh23456 akh23456 is offline
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all i can say is dammmmmmmm the 335 is fast...and good looks vishnu
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  #12  
Old 09-28-2006, 08:06 AM
focus4 focus4 is offline
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Shiv, Hoes does the Xede feel in terms of driveability? It is indeed a piggy-back computer correct? My STi was plauged with driveabily issues and hesitation when the piggy-back switched back to the stock computer with my UTEC. Does the Xede have the ability to compensate for altitude and temperature so you don't have to have 5 different maps depending on what day it is? Congrats on being the first tuner to really take a crack at this car, the results look promising.

Last edited by focus4; 09-28-2006 at 08:35 AM.
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  #13  
Old 09-28-2006, 08:32 AM
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inTgr8r inTgr8r is offline
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WOW...My wife asked what I was reading for having this wide mischievous grin on my face this morning....I cant possibly tell her my plans for this car that will void the warranty the second a chip is installed or the car is flashed. So the question is, can it be put back to stock for the times the car gets serviced?
My concern as well!

Additionally, will the onboard data collection give it away.
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  #14  
Old 09-28-2006, 08:58 AM
MikeW MikeW is offline
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Also, in the event that someone using your software needed to run on 87 octane gas, will the software compensate. Obviously performance will be lost, but the knock sensor should still work, the car sould still be normally drivable, and not subject to any detonation damage. Is this the case?
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  #15  
Old 09-28-2006, 10:14 AM
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How much of an impact does the "toon" have on fuel consumption since you are running richer than stock?
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  #16  
Old 09-28-2006, 10:18 AM
akhbhaat akhbhaat is offline
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Good stuff. I wonder if the lean AFR is at least in part responsible for the overheating rumors that have popped up here and there.

I also wonder if BMW's engineers were forced to compromise the tune of the US-spec version to meet emissions.
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Old 09-28-2006, 11:19 AM
radgator1 radgator1 is offline
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Also, in the event that someone using your software needed to run on 87 octane gas, will the software compensate. Obviously performance will be lost, but the knock sensor should still work, the car sould still be normally drivable, and not subject to any detonation damage. Is this the case?
With or without performance ecu upgrade you should never ever run 87 in this engine. Are there places in this country where you can not get Premium? I have never heard of this and can't figure how "someone using your software needed to run on 87 octane gas"
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Old 09-28-2006, 11:30 AM
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With or without performance ecu upgrade you should never ever run 87 in this engine. Are there places in this country where you can not get Premium? I have never heard of this and can't figure how "someone using your software needed to run on 87 octane gas"
Ever pulled into a gas station in the middle of nowhere, and they were out of premium? I've had it happen. The key is to just drive nice until the next tankful.
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Old 09-28-2006, 12:54 PM
LBV LBV is offline
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Just reading everything Shiv is saying makes me think this guy really know his stuff!! Not only does he want the power, he also wants the repeatability and the durability .. .exactly the way I would be tuning my car if I had the knowledge ...

I'm sure a lot of us are wonderin' where the guy from Dinan went to, but I can't help but think "can anyone out-do this guy"? Shiv just sounds SOOO knowledgeable that you'd have no issues putting complete faith in him.
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Old 09-28-2006, 02:48 PM
BiggieJ BiggieJ is offline
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Originally Posted by LBV View Post
Just reading everything Shiv is saying makes me think this guy really know his stuff!! Not only does he want the power, he also wants the repeatability and the durability .. .exactly the way I would be tuning my car if I had the knowledge ...

I'm sure a lot of us are wonderin' where the guy from Dinan went to, but I can't help but think "can anyone out-do this guy"? Shiv just sounds SOOO knowledgeable that you'd have no issues putting complete faith in him.
apparently Shiv is a well-known and repected EVO tunter. so with his knowledge he has credentials too hes got my money fo' sho'
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  #21  
Old 09-28-2006, 03:47 PM
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volsfan0911 volsfan0911 is offline
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apparently Shiv is a well-known and repected EVO tunter. so with his knowledge he has credentials too hes got my money fo' sho'
Oh, he does Scoobies too! Sorry, couldn't help myself
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  #22  
Old 09-28-2006, 05:38 PM
Sauceboy01 Sauceboy01 is offline
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I used to have the Vishnu Stage 0 + Downpipe for my 2002 WRX back in the day, I drove the car on the track and daily for 2 years before i sold it and it was absolutely dependable as hell. That was when they were still using the piggyback UNICHIP's. I abused that car and it still ran like new when I sold it.

Vishnu has gained my respect forever. I'm so very glad that Shiv is working on this project.
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Old 09-28-2006, 05:54 PM
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I used to have the Vishnu Stage 0 + Downpipe for my 2002 WRX back in the day, I drove the car on the track and daily for 2 years before i sold it and it was absolutely dependable as hell. That was when they were still using the piggyback UNICHIP's. I abused that car and it still ran like new when I sold it.

Vishnu has gained my respect forever. I'm so very glad that Shiv is working on this project.
That was the same basic setup I drove and it was awesome. Fast as hell, the boost hit hard lower down in the revs and, with a manual controller, it would hold a lot longer before running out of Schlitz. Wasn't much on creature comforts but for the money, one hell of a good time. I definitely had a sh!t eating grin after that drive.
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  #24  
Old 09-28-2006, 09:29 PM
Omniscient Omniscient is offline
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So how long before this chip comes out? I am getting really excited about it. And what about warranty? How will it affect it?
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Old 09-29-2006, 08:33 AM
MikeW MikeW is offline
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I'm sure as it comes from the factory, the car has a knock sensor, and will compensate for low octane gas (retard the spark adv, lower the waste gate release, etc). The car will lose power, but will not be allowed to damage itself.

I just want to make sure that Vishnu's computer (it's seems like it's both hardware and software) maintains this.

I can see lots of situations where this is necessary. Even if 91+ octane is available, someone could easily make a mistake and put in the wrong grade. And do you think that gas stations don't occasionally play games?

Quote:
Originally Posted by radgator1 View Post
With or without performance ecu upgrade you should never ever run 87 in this engine. Are there places in this country where you can not get Premium? I have never heard of this and can't figure how "someone using your software needed to run on 87 octane gas"
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