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E90/E91/E92/E93 (2006 - 2013)
The E9X is the 4th evolution of the BMW 3 series including a highly tuned twin turbo 335i variant pushing out 300hp and 300 ft. lbs. of torque. BMW continues to show that it sets the bar for true driving performance! -- View the E9X Wiki

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  #101  
Old 08-18-2008, 09:02 AM
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Duncan17 Duncan17 is offline
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Location: Athens Ga
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 263
Mein Auto: 335i Dinan 3, Z4M Coupe
I have had and removed a Vishnu unit. The performance was wonderful. I had two units and problems from day one. I tried to work with Vishnu to solve these and was very dissapointed with the customer service response and the lack of support. I had a "throttle blip" on the first unit. Just driving along the car would blip the throttle all on it's own. This became dangerous when idleing along in traffic in Atlanta and having your car jump forward. Vishnu sent me unit #2. This had a less violent blip and a negative blip. Eventually the yellow engine warning light would come on and either stay on or go off with a restart. I took the car to my dealer and they printed off 2.5 pages of error codes (so much for the no error code claim). My dealer worked with me and really storngly suggested removing the unit before it did major damage. I went to Dinan and had them remove it and install their stage 3 software. The performance is very close BUT no throttle blips, no errors, and Dinan customer service which seems to be first rate. I tried to return the unit to Vishnu and was told I had had it too long for a refund. You can never get anyone on the phone at Vishnu, emails are returned sometimes 2 days later. My suggestion is go with Dinan, I wrote a 50K check for my 335 coupe and I don't want to have to write a check for a new engine.
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  #102  
Old 08-18-2008, 04:49 PM
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jbeene jbeene is offline
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Location: Frozen North
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 388
Mein Auto: E90 M3
Quote:
Originally Posted by idrive335ci View Post
I think the point with Dinan is that BMW covers BMW parts, and Dinan covers Dinan parts. But the most important thing is that BMW does NOT cancel your warranty with Dinan mods. I don't think that can be said of other companies. As far as I understand, Dinan is unique in that respect.
Dinan also covers consequential damages, so if the Dinan part breaks and causes additional damage then you're covered. It is meant to be gap free but really, who has ever had a warranty claim that they haven't had to make their case for.

I had the JB2 in my sedan and thought it was great. It was a lease. I own my 335 coupe and the Dinan warranty was worth the extra money because I have a vested interest in the car lasting. Not that it wouldn't with a JB2 but rather I wanted the sleep easy that the warranty provides.

Terry, if you're listening, maybe I can help you develop and optional aftermarket warranty to cover any gaps between BMW's warranty and what they exclude because of JB2 software. I'm not in the warranty business but know many people who are.

That way if someone wants some gap coverage and all that is holding them back from a JB2 is the warranty (like me) you can sell em both.

Dinan's warranty is hardly free but I can't imagine it is $1600 - the difference between the JB2 and the Dinan.
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  #103  
Old 08-19-2008, 02:25 PM
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GinoDotCom GinoDotCom is offline
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Location: Bronx, NY
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 1,035
Mein Auto: 2008 335i
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbeene View Post
I had the JB2 in my sedan and thought it was great. It was a lease. I own my 335 coupe and the Dinan warranty was worth the extra money because I have a vested interest in the car lasting. Dinan's warranty is hardly free but I can't imagine it is $1600 - the difference between the JB2 and the Dinan.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Duncan17 View Post
. I went to Dinan and had them remove it and install their stage 3 software.

How much did you guys pay for the Dinan package? Is stage one still 2grand? were the gains very noticible? I can only imagine what stage three is doing to your car in terms of speed! yikes.

I just uncovered some unexpected money, and instead of doing the right thing and adding it to my premium, of course i'm going to blow it all on a Dinan Stage flash instead =-)
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Last edited by GinoDotCom; 08-19-2008 at 02:32 PM.
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  #104  
Old 08-20-2008, 01:37 AM
Celsius Celsius is offline
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Location: Aloha
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 70
Mein Auto: 2001 LS430 Ultra Luxury
Quote:
Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu View Post
Those who have been following our progress over the last couple of weeks probably know where we last left off. The last we left off, we control over spark timing, boost control, and some marginal control over fuel. As of last night, we got FULL control over fuel. So, as it stands, we have control over everything we ever wanted to get in control of

For those who are haven't been following our progress, here's a little synopsis along with a bunch of dyno graphs.

Two weeks ago, we purchased and drove home in our brand new 335i Coupe (space grey, red interior, 6sp manual). After 75 miles of break in (lol), we brought it to Modacar in Livermore, CA. Although we have a fancy AWD Dyno Dynamics dyno, most people are more familiar with Dynojet readings than anything else. However, Modacar's dyno does read lower than other Dynojets. Running our normal 91oct gas (the best we get in CA unfortunately), our car put down a repeatable 276-277whp and 287-288lb-ft of torque. On other dynojets, the car would probably have put down around 285whp and 295lb-ft of torque (as measured by Automobile magazine, for instance). But since this is the dyno we are using, we're going to stick with these numbers. Just as long as we don't move around from dyno to dyno, all this numbers are perfectly valid and useful for comparing against one and another. Also, all runs were done in 4th and taken right up to fuel cut (~7000rpm)

Stock Run:


After baselining the car, we started our tuning process. We opted to use a slightly modified version of our Xede computer. It is similar to the unit we use for Evos except that it need to read a different crank trigger (60-2 vs 4 teeth) and a T-MAP sensor (0-5 analog voltage vs. Freq wave in Hz). There were also some other sensor differences but we could adjust for that in the Xede software. The first thing we got in control of was ignition timing. We experimented with a lot of different approaches. We found that we could add in timing during cruise to improve fuel economy as well as reduce oil temps. Partial throttle torque was also improved. The next thing we got in control of was calculated load. This had an effect on the boost curve and some secondary effects on fueling. Not nearly enough control as we were looking to eventually get but good enough for an initial stab at tuning. And the results were reasonably good given our inability to control fuel properly.

Results (stock vs. 1st attempt):


So what is exactly wrong with the fuel curve? Check out this Air/Fuel chart:


First of all, feel free to ignore the first 1000rpm of the AFR trace. Tailpipe sniffing widebands suffer from a time delay especially at low engine speeds when exhaust velocity/volume is too low for them to get an accurate reading of what is happening at that exact time. But even looking above 3000rpm, we saw AFRs as lean as 15.5:1. And this under full boost! Lean to say the least. At higher engine speeds, AFR worked its way back into the nice and rich side of things. But the AFR in the midrange was odd. Odd enough to make me look for air pumps which would explain the lean readings. I didn't find any. Obviously BMW tuned this car this way for a reason. Probably for fuel economy and certainly for emissions. Does it compromise power and safety? We won't know for sure until we try something else, no? More on that later on. In our first tuning attempt, we made very very little change to AFR. If anything, our tuning resulting in it being slightly richer at high rpm ("tuned" is the green line, stock is the blue line). But with AFR so lean in the midrange, we really wanted to get full control over fueling ASAP. But at this stage, all most of our gains came from tweaking the timing curve, bumping up boost by ~1psi and eliminating much of the high rpm boost taper. And the results were ok. With this half assed toon...er tune, we picked up over 32whp at peak and a whopping 70whp at 7000rpm.

That was last week. This week, we made some really good progress. Not only did we get full control over boost but we also got every last bit of control of fueling. Yay! This means that we can try all sorts of fuel/timing/boost combinations to see which ones work the best (makes good power with good repeatability, low temps and sufficient knock resistance.) Another thing we did was made a cat-back exhaust system for it. Nothing fancy. Just a one-off prototype that we pieced together with 2.5" crushed bent piping and standard magnaflow mufflers. It replaces the exhaust just after the downpipes. The two factory cats in the downpipe are still in place. But the secondary cats, along with a bunch of bendy exhaust tubing, was all replaced. If we can make good power with this quickie exhaust, we should do really well with a production version offering larger volume mufflers, mandrel bends, etc,. In a way, I wish I had waited to put on the exhaust later and just re-dynoed the car with just our new-found fuel and boost control. But I didn't. So shoot me. We could always stick the stock exhaust back on next week and dyno it again. But hey, I was impatient for a fast car that actually sounded fast

With all the engine controls we ever wanted and a new exhaust, the car picked up good power. We limited boost to 11psi for now since we are still running our 91oct pump gas. But with proper boost control now in our pocket (and a 3rd boost control solenoid under the hood being controlled by the Xede), we had a rock solid boost curve with 11psi at 2500rpm, holding flat until 6000rpm and then gently dropping off to 10psi by 7000rpm. Before, during our "first attempt", it would bounce around a little bit +/- 1psi.

New Results
Stock vs. Xede Tuned and cat-back exhaust
91oct


Even compared to our "first attempt", our second attempt with exhaust stacks up well:


However, the biggest improvement we were able to get was with respect to Air/Fuel ratio. Here's an AFR graph comparing a stock car making 277whp to our tuned car making 332whp (green curve):


Yes, the tuned run is running over 2 FULL points richer in the midrange than the stock run! In fact, it substantially richer than the stock run everywhere except 6000rpm where we were able to sneak a bit more power out by running a little leaner than stock.

Still, by virtue of the new fuel mapping, it's reasonable to say that the tuned car is running more knock-free, safer and cooler than the stock car. All while making a boat load more power and torque. All in all, we're pretty happy with the car. It is fast as hell and now sounds nice as well. In first gear, we get virtually no traction at full throttle. In second gear, the car is capable of spinning its wheels as well if the road gets even slightly bumpy. If you drive with the traction control on (yuck), you see that light flash on and off all throughout the first 3 gears :thumsup:

So how much power is left in there? Well, it's clear that we are limited by our 91oct gas. With every 0.5 degrees of timing I sneaked in, the car would pick up a few horsepower. So with better gas, we'll see more power. And with race gas, I'm sure we'll see big gains. But on 93 octane, I'd expect to see another 10whp. We'll probably pick up some more power if we were to eliminate the factory cats in the downpipes. But that would have an big impact on emissions which is something we want to avoid at this point. There are still a few things we want to try out. There's still more power to be had with our current set-up. But for now, I'm just going to beat the tar out of the car and put it through its paces. One step at a time.

There were some people videotaping today's dyno session. I'll try to get a hold of some of that video and post it up. Next week, we're going to bring out our video camera and do some on-the-road acceleration test, pitting our tuned 335i against our 100% stock Porsche 996 and our 100% stock Evo IX. Should be fun!

Stay tuned...

Cheers,
Shiv
Vishnu Performance Systems

Awesome work Shiv! I didn't read through all the posts, so sorry if this has been asked b4!

1) If fuel grade (91 oct) is the limiting factor in making more power, have you made a plan to tune for E85? I know it would require more volume of fuel vs the 91oct, but the prices and performance should out weigh the negative aspects!

2) If you're able to run E85, will the stock (expensive) injectors be able to put out the volume required?
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  #105  
Old 08-20-2008, 08:26 AM
jbeene's Avatar
jbeene jbeene is offline
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Location: Frozen North
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 388
Mein Auto: E90 M3
Dinan Warranty

Read it for yourself and decide.

I'd prefer to have some form of warranty and at least a chance that I could get BMW or Dinan to repair the car vs hoping something bad doesn't happen and then for sure having to pay for it myself if it does.

So sure, Dinan is more expensive but it works great and I'm not overly concerned about it not being properly engineered. Their customer service is exemplary and if anything does go wrong I have the dealer 15 minutes from my house to support me.

The car is a rocket, sounds great and handles better than it did when I bought it.

Where's the downside. Its a $60,000 car in Canada, what difference does a few hundred dollars here and there on upgrades make? The Dinan stuff isn't that much more expensive.
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  #106  
Old 08-25-2008, 05:39 PM
Celsius Celsius is offline
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Location: Aloha
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 70
Mein Auto: 2001 LS430 Ultra Luxury
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbeene View Post
Read it for yourself and decide.
That wasn't my question!
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