Welcome to Bimmerfest -- The #1 Online Community for BMW related information! Please enjoy the discussion forums below and share your experiences with the 200,000 current, new and past BMW owners. The forums are broken out by car model and into other special interest sections such as BMW European Delivery and a special forum to voice your questions to the many BMW dealers on the site to assist our members!

Please follow the links below to help get you started!

Go Back   Bimmerfest - BMW Forums > The Best of Bimmerfest! > Forced Induction

Forced Induction
Aftermarket superchargers & turbos as well as tuning for stock BMW turbos (N54 motor - 135i / 335i / 535i). Force-fed discussion to make your car go faster

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 11-09-2006, 02:44 PM
heym heym is offline
Registered User
Location: new jersey
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 6
Mein Auto: 2000 528i
Exclamation nitrous guys..need insight

i've used the search feature and all that good stuff and posted on bf.com but to no avail. I need to know what you guys think about using a dry shot versus a wet shot..i wanna go dry but i know the problem in doing that...cylinders running lean because of different pressures. a wet shot seems too complicated to for me to setup..a dry setup seems more along the lines of my skill level with a wrench. I'm looking at the recluse 500 from venom performance. what do you guys think..anything is helpful.
Reply With Quote
Ads by Google
  #2  
Old 12-24-2006, 07:19 PM
franka franka is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Lakewood
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 8,771
Mein Auto: E39 540i Sport
Im considering a system for my 540. It would be wet as it's much easier to get the mix right.

I would like to spray it into each runner but can't since my manifold is plastic and would not structurally support a wet nozzle.

Is your I6 intake manifold an aluminum casting? If so you could set up a wet nozzle at each runner. That's a superior way to go. An equal and pefect mix in each cyclinder.
__________________
Frank
540/6

Dirrezas (4) @ 275/35-18, Eibach springs & bars, Bilstein Sports, Dinan Stage 2, slotted ATEs, Hi-Temp HTP pads, SS Lines, UUC-SS, White/Tan, Bling-free & Stealthy
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 12-24-2006, 08:06 PM
itzeug's Avatar
itzeug itzeug is offline
qk
Location: Brooklyn, NY
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 726
Mein Auto: 6
your engine is going to die after a few times of using this crap, it's no good unless you hate your car
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 12-25-2006, 05:12 AM
franka franka is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Lakewood
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 8,771
Mein Auto: E39 540i Sport
Quote:
Originally Posted by itzeug View Post
your engine is going to die after a few times of using this crap, it's no good unless you hate your car
Thank you for the warning.

As with most things there is a correct way and many incorrect ways. If one knows what they are doing, doesn't make mistakes and doesn't go overboard, nitrous will work well and will not damage your motor or drive train. The additional load on the bearings will be born well provided you are running a quality oil, the engine is in good condition and the the motor is at operating temp.
__________________
Frank
540/6

Dirrezas (4) @ 275/35-18, Eibach springs & bars, Bilstein Sports, Dinan Stage 2, slotted ATEs, Hi-Temp HTP pads, SS Lines, UUC-SS, White/Tan, Bling-free & Stealthy
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 12-25-2006, 05:23 AM
franka franka is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Lakewood
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 8,771
Mein Auto: E39 540i Sport
Quote:
Originally Posted by heym View Post
i've used the search feature and all that good stuff and posted on bf.com but to no avail. I need to know what you guys think about using a dry shot versus a wet shot..i wanna go dry but i know the problem in doing that...cylinders running lean because of different pressures. a wet shot seems too complicated to for me to setup..a dry setup seems more along the lines of my skill level with a wrench. I'm looking at the recluse 500 from venom performance. what do you guys think..anything is helpful.
I'm no expert. I'm learning like you are and we both could use a lot of help.

Based on my limited knowledge dry seems like a harder way to go because you have to match the nitrous with a proper amount of gas and do so at the correct time. How would you accomplish that?
__________________
Frank
540/6

Dirrezas (4) @ 275/35-18, Eibach springs & bars, Bilstein Sports, Dinan Stage 2, slotted ATEs, Hi-Temp HTP pads, SS Lines, UUC-SS, White/Tan, Bling-free & Stealthy
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 01-09-2007, 01:10 PM
ls14winter ls14winter is offline
Registered User
Location: Grand Rapids
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 22
Mein Auto: 97 540i
Quote:
Originally Posted by itzeug View Post
your engine is going to die after a few times of using this crap, it's no good unless you hate your car
Either bmw's cant build a reliable motor or your an idiot. I would like to believe the later of the two since i plan to put a 70 shot on a 540.

I sprayed a dry 50 shot on a 99 elantra and a 75 wet shot on a 03 sentra se-r for a year. I filled the bottle every weekend. I will not believe that a 540 motor can't hold the same power add more reliably. Especially when the power is divided over 4 more cylinders and should also have higher power tolerances then the QR25.

Nitrous used safely is reliable. Make sure you are not increasing timing unless running race gas. Have rpm activation switch like 3500-6200rpms. Only use it at wide open throttle.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 01-09-2007, 01:24 PM
franka franka is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Lakewood
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 8,771
Mein Auto: E39 540i Sport
Quote:
Originally Posted by ls14winter View Post
Either bmw's cant build a reliable motor or your an idiot. I would like to believe the later of the two since i plan to put a 70 shot on a 540.

I sprayed a dry 50 shot on a 99 elantra and a 75 wet shot on a 03 sentra se-r for a year. I filled the bottle every weekend. I will not believe that a 540 motor can't hold the same power add more reliably. Especially when the power is divided over 4 more cylinders and should also have higher power tolerances then the QR25.

Nitrous used safely is reliable. Make sure you are not increasing timing unless running race gas. Have rpm activation switch like 3500-6200rpms. Only use it at wide open throttle.

I'm concerned about how to dial back the timing when on the NO. Also about getting an even distribution of NO and fuel to all cylinders evenly from a single point wet shot upstream of the throttle body.

I'd appreciate hearing your thoughts on those 2 items.
__________________
Frank
540/6

Dirrezas (4) @ 275/35-18, Eibach springs & bars, Bilstein Sports, Dinan Stage 2, slotted ATEs, Hi-Temp HTP pads, SS Lines, UUC-SS, White/Tan, Bling-free & Stealthy
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 01-29-2007, 08:47 AM
beamerboy85 beamerboy85 is offline
Registered User
Location: Gaithersburg, Md
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 17
Send a message via AIM to beamerboy85
Mein Auto: 1985 BMW 325
i have a 85 325e and i have a 150 wet shot on it, ive had it on there for 5 months now and i havent had any problems with it yet. put colder plugs in. all you have to do to get an accurate jet sizing is find out how much fuel presser at WOT and call NOS or NX or ZEX and tell them the fuel press. and what size shot u want and they will tell u the jet sizing
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 03-23-2007, 06:10 PM
killerkiko killerkiko is offline
Registered User
Location: gilbert AZ
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 45
Mein Auto: 2002 530I cai chip bottle
Hi guys im running a wet shot on my 2002 530i its only a 55 shot but its nice. ive had it on there for a few months and it hasnt given me any problems yet. but definitly dont advance the timing and get an "RPM Window Switch" that limits the shot to only between whatever rpm's you want, i have a pretty sweet set up and ill take some pics tis weekend. but yeah bmw motors are up to the challenge of bottle feeding. also wet systems are not hard to install, you can pul fuel from the fuel rail and that takes care of that issue. im going to get a seperate 1 gallon fuel cell and put in the racing fuel so the nitrous shot can get injected with that. but yeah if you guys have any questions id be more than happy to answer them.


-killerkiko
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 05-15-2007, 12:05 AM
Ericthenorse Ericthenorse is offline
Registered User
Location: Los Osos, CA
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 17
Mein Auto: 1973 3.0 CSI
I had a 91 VW Jetta with a dry shot system... Instead of adding it at the manifold, I shot it in right before the intercooler... I got a little help from the NO2, but mostly, it helped to cool and condense the intake charge....

If you are running a moderate system, your ECM should be able to compensate... Once you reach the limit of flow on your injectors, you need to add fuel squirters....
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 06-01-2007, 11:49 AM
franka franka is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Lakewood
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 8,771
Mein Auto: E39 540i Sport
Personally I would never run a dry system. Wet mixes the nitrous with the extra fuel (gasoline) that the nitrous needs. Nitrous provides oxygen only, fuel has to be added.
__________________
Frank
540/6

Dirrezas (4) @ 275/35-18, Eibach springs & bars, Bilstein Sports, Dinan Stage 2, slotted ATEs, Hi-Temp HTP pads, SS Lines, UUC-SS, White/Tan, Bling-free & Stealthy
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 06-01-2007, 01:04 PM
BIMMERUSAM5's Avatar
BIMMERUSAM5 BIMMERUSAM5 is offline
*rh Cdrh*
Location: Elroy Jetson im somewhere out of space
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 4,290
Mein Auto: 08 M5 e36 M3 gt40 877hp
Direct port is the best way to do a nitrous setup. You need to run a better than stock fuel pump, and make sure everything is working correctly. Depending on how built your car is, 50-200hp shots can be achieved. The most wear usually does not come from the size of the shot, but rather the duration of the shot.
__________________
***********************
***********************

***********************
****************** __________________------====http://bimmerfest.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=3)====--------__________________
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 06-01-2007, 01:28 PM
franka franka is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Lakewood
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 8,771
Mein Auto: E39 540i Sport
Agreed, direct port and wet, with rpm limiters.
__________________
Frank
540/6

Dirrezas (4) @ 275/35-18, Eibach springs & bars, Bilstein Sports, Dinan Stage 2, slotted ATEs, Hi-Temp HTP pads, SS Lines, UUC-SS, White/Tan, Bling-free & Stealthy
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 06-02-2007, 09:28 AM
BIMMERUSAM5's Avatar
BIMMERUSAM5 BIMMERUSAM5 is offline
*rh Cdrh*
Location: Elroy Jetson im somewhere out of space
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 4,290
Mein Auto: 08 M5 e36 M3 gt40 877hp
Quote:
Originally Posted by franka View Post
Agreed, direct port and wet, with rpm limiters.
The installs I usually see are wet shots, which are most effective, and usually the safest.
__________________
***********************
***********************

***********************
****************** __________________------====http://bimmerfest.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=3)====--------__________________
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 10-19-2007, 06:20 AM
franka franka is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Lakewood
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 8,771
Mein Auto: E39 540i Sport
Does anyone have anything new to add to this old thread?
__________________
Frank
540/6

Dirrezas (4) @ 275/35-18, Eibach springs & bars, Bilstein Sports, Dinan Stage 2, slotted ATEs, Hi-Temp HTP pads, SS Lines, UUC-SS, White/Tan, Bling-free & Stealthy
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 10-19-2007, 06:29 AM
lextech lextech is offline
That Lexus guy
Location: San Leandro California
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 12
Mein Auto: 1994 540i
Basic stuff, nitrous express has more robust solenoids than NOS does, Venom can not be trusted. Ask Wolfkatz performance about their dealings with them and leaky injectors.
Upgrading and /or replacing the stock fuel pump and filters, make sure your tune is perfect are mandatory. Start small.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 10-23-2007, 07:07 AM
smolck's Avatar
smolck smolck is offline
ROLL TIDE!
Location: Birmingham, AL
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 22,336
Mein Auto: 2004 ZHP Sedan
Quote:
Originally Posted by franka View Post
Does anyone have anything new to add to this old thread?
I didnt see anyone mention bigger fuel pump and larger injectors. Let's remember what Nitrous is, it is a way to inject more OXYGEN into your motor. The Nitrogen molecules (the N2 part of N2O) are only there to stabilize the oxygen as oxygen by itself is very volatile and prone to blow up (i.e. spaceshuttle). So if all we are doing is adding more OXYGEN then we need to add MORE fuel. A simple wet system is ok, but atomization is a challenge (or has been for me) and more complex to wire. For the novice I reccommend a bigger pump, larger injectors, a WOT switch and a single dry stage. Direct port is fine, though tailored more fore all out dragsters wanting maximum HP, for the street a throttle body plate or nozzle is more than adequate. I ran 175HP single stage DRY system on 2 of my old 5.0 mustangs on a stock short block with over 125,000 miles and never blew anything up as I had the bigger pump and injectors. Oh, and I pulled the timing WAAAY back too. I am not sure if you can do that on an BMW, but you wouldnt want 175hp either. For 70hp or less you should be ok with the above stuff. Lastly, I dont think an RPM Limiter will help, detonation kills almost all nitrous cars because the lean out, not because they over rev. That said, if you bounce off some rev limiters with NOS going you can really get a big bang as nitrous builds up while the cylinder is shut down and then when it refires its like BOOM! I think the stock rev limiter on the newer BMW's custs fuel and spark, that can be deadly. I say, dont miss a gear and shift slightly lower, most people over rev their cars anyways. My E46 revs to 6500 but I can feel it losing power (slightly) beyond 6000.....

I hope that is enough new info....
__________________

Check out my YouTube Channel for DIY's and other fun stuff HERE
Check out my BMWBLOG!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fast Bob View Post
now, go burn your Man Card, and buy yourself a Camry....
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 10-23-2007, 07:57 AM
franka franka is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Lakewood
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 8,771
Mein Auto: E39 540i Sport
[QUOTE=smolckLet's remember what Nitrous is, it is a way to inject more OXYGEN into your motor. The Nitrogen molecules (the N2 part of N2O) are only there to stabilize the oxygen as oxygen by itself is very volatile and prone to blow up (i.e. spaceshuttle). QUOTE]


Oxygen by itself is not flammable or explosive. It only supports combustion.

Its only when mixed with a fuel, and ignited, that a flame or an explosion can happen.

In addition to oxygen you have to 1) a fuel and 2) an ignition.
__________________
Frank
540/6

Dirrezas (4) @ 275/35-18, Eibach springs & bars, Bilstein Sports, Dinan Stage 2, slotted ATEs, Hi-Temp HTP pads, SS Lines, UUC-SS, White/Tan, Bling-free & Stealthy
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 10-23-2007, 08:02 AM
smolck's Avatar
smolck smolck is offline
ROLL TIDE!
Location: Birmingham, AL
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 22,336
Mein Auto: 2004 ZHP Sedan
Bottled oxygen, as in Nitrous bottle is volatile to transport. Ever seen a BOC gas truck that didnt have warnings on it? Solid oxygen in a bottle riding around in a car is not a smart idea, otherwise why would you not just buy pure oxygen and inject that into your motor? Because it isnt safe and that was my point.....The Nitrogen is there to stabilize the mix....It is an undeniable fact.

ask anyone familiar with the properties of gasses.....
__________________

Check out my YouTube Channel for DIY's and other fun stuff HERE
Check out my BMWBLOG!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fast Bob View Post
now, go burn your Man Card, and buy yourself a Camry....
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 10-23-2007, 08:03 AM
franka franka is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Lakewood
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 8,771
Mein Auto: E39 540i Sport
Check your chemistry.
__________________
Frank
540/6

Dirrezas (4) @ 275/35-18, Eibach springs & bars, Bilstein Sports, Dinan Stage 2, slotted ATEs, Hi-Temp HTP pads, SS Lines, UUC-SS, White/Tan, Bling-free & Stealthy
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 10-23-2007, 08:22 AM
smolck's Avatar
smolck smolck is offline
ROLL TIDE!
Location: Birmingham, AL
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 22,336
Mein Auto: 2004 ZHP Sedan
Whatever.....I am not here to argue. I am here to lend my knowledge of working with Nitrous Oxide. I have used it in many applications for drag racing and street fun. I was trying to lend some real world, actually tested, advice for people to read. Not to argue.

While I am checking my chemistry maybe you should check your grammar....
"In addition to oxygen you have to 1) a fuel and 2) an ignition."

Why do I have to have a fuel?
__________________

Check out my YouTube Channel for DIY's and other fun stuff HERE
Check out my BMWBLOG!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fast Bob View Post
now, go burn your Man Card, and buy yourself a Camry....
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 10-23-2007, 08:28 AM
franka franka is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Lakewood
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 8,771
Mein Auto: E39 540i Sport
Sir, I'm not arguing with you, I'm simply correcting a misconception that many have.

Still your experiences remain in tact and your point about needing to have plenty of fuel to prevent running lean is correct.

And thank you for the grammar lesson.
__________________
Frank
540/6

Dirrezas (4) @ 275/35-18, Eibach springs & bars, Bilstein Sports, Dinan Stage 2, slotted ATEs, Hi-Temp HTP pads, SS Lines, UUC-SS, White/Tan, Bling-free & Stealthy
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 10-23-2007, 08:32 AM
franka franka is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Lakewood
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 8,771
Mein Auto: E39 540i Sport
A fuel, gasoline, is required to combine with the oxygen and with an ignition from the spark plug burn.

If oxygen itself burned then all the oxygen in the atmosphere and that we breathe would burn when a match was lit.
__________________
Frank
540/6

Dirrezas (4) @ 275/35-18, Eibach springs & bars, Bilstein Sports, Dinan Stage 2, slotted ATEs, Hi-Temp HTP pads, SS Lines, UUC-SS, White/Tan, Bling-free & Stealthy
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 10-23-2007, 08:35 AM
smolck's Avatar
smolck smolck is offline
ROLL TIDE!
Location: Birmingham, AL
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 22,336
Mein Auto: 2004 ZHP Sedan
Quote:
Originally Posted by franka View Post
A fuel, gasoline, is required to combine with the oxygen and with an ignition from the spark plug burn.

If oxygen itself burned then all the oxygen in the atmosphere and that we breathe would burn when a match was lit.
The oxygen in the atmosphere isnt under compression either. But when introduced into a cylinder (under pressure with fuel and spark) pure oxygen is very volatile. What happens when you add oxygen to a fire? Bigger fire, yes? Pure oxygen in a cylinder is very volatile and that is why the nitrogen is there, to help stabilize it.....
__________________

Check out my YouTube Channel for DIY's and other fun stuff HERE
Check out my BMWBLOG!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fast Bob View Post
now, go burn your Man Card, and buy yourself a Camry....
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 10-23-2007, 08:52 AM
franka franka is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Lakewood
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 8,771
Mein Auto: E39 540i Sport
Ask A Scientist
Chemistry Archive

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Flammability and Oxygen


6/19/2004

name Patricia P.
status educator
age 50s

Question - I feel so dumb asking this, but it is in regards to
oxygen and flammability. I always thought of oxygen as a flammable gas,
but the textbook says that "oxygen is not a flammable gas-it does not
burn. But oxygen does support the burning of other substances. A
glowing wooden splint placed in a test tube of oxygen will continue to
burn until the oxygen is used up. This ability to support burning is
another example of a chemical property. By using the chemical properties
of flammability and supporting burning, you can distinguish between the
two gases hydrogen and oxygen." Somehow, I always thought that the
oxygen underwent a change in the burning process also, but I must have
been wrong. Can you shed a little more light on the matter for
me? Thanks. I want to be sure my understanding is totally complete so I
do not pass on error to others in their thinking.
-----------------
Hi Patricia-
I think you're fishing for the keyword/phrase "reactive gas" or "energetic gas".
Or some similar word we do not quite have.

Virtually all flames are the energetic reaction between a fuel and an oxidizer.
You understand rightly that both fuel and oxidizer are consumed, joined to create
something else.

But since we live in an oxygen background, oxidizer is usually naturally present.
Fire then becomes a likelihood only when fuel is added to your situation.
So we started saying "flammable gas" for a strong or hi-energy fuel gas.

Oxygen is a strong or hi-energy oxidizer, true,
but it is an oxidizer, so it is not a fuel, so they do not call it flammable.
__________________
Frank
540/6

Dirrezas (4) @ 275/35-18, Eibach springs & bars, Bilstein Sports, Dinan Stage 2, slotted ATEs, Hi-Temp HTP pads, SS Lines, UUC-SS, White/Tan, Bling-free & Stealthy
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Forum Navigation
Go Back   Bimmerfest - BMW Forums > The Best of Bimmerfest! > Forced Induction
Today's Posts Search
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On



Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
The Guys Rules MMME30W Off-Topic 6 11-06-2006 04:34 PM
Active Autowerke Completes Custom E46 M3 SC / Nitrous Application!!!! **Pics Inside** ActiveAutowerke Forced Induction 11 09-21-2006 06:30 AM
new here--seeking your insight re: this purchase fulthrust7 E46 (1999 - 2006) 2 06-10-2006 09:57 PM
Are you guys missing the 'what makes you guys buy the sedan over the Coupe' thread AF General BMW 14 02-03-2003 10:35 AM
Gotta love these guys... hehehehe ;-) Sabrina Off-Topic 7 04-19-2002 06:06 PM


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 12:36 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
© 2001-2011 performanceIX, Inc. All Rights Reserved .: guidelines .:. privacy .:. terms