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  #1  
Old 12-16-2002, 03:20 PM
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Magna Magna is offline
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Does Porsche own Audi which owns VW?

I hear that Porsche is independent, but many Porsche dealers are linked to Audi dealerships. What's their relationship? I think historically Ferdinand Porsche (founder) worked for VW, then started Porsche.
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  #2  
Old 12-16-2002, 03:24 PM
Alex Baumann Alex Baumann is offline
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Here you go.


http://www.autointell.com/european_c...agen-group.htm
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  #3  
Old 12-16-2002, 03:41 PM
Jspeed Jspeed is offline
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I'm confused. According to that page Porsche is not part of the group, but Porsche is obviously related to VW. They all use "Tiptronic" and the new Cayenne will be the sister car to the Touareg. Exactly what kind of relationship is between them?
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  #4  
Old 12-16-2002, 03:47 PM
Alex Baumann Alex Baumann is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jspeed
I'm confused. According to that page Porsche is not part of the group, but Porsche is obviously related to VW. They all use "Tiptronic" and the new Cayenne will be the sister car to the Touareg. Exactly what kind of relationship is between them?
They share technology. The relationships between car companies can be complicated. For instance, DC and BMW producing engines in Brasil on joint venture.

Porsche once produced the Mercedes Benz 500E (W124), or Karmann Karosseriefabrik is producing the CLK Cabriolets etc.
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  #5  
Old 12-16-2002, 04:25 PM
Jeff_DML Jeff_DML is offline
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I think while Piech was at VWAG it was a major conflict of interest figuring Piech is a major shareholder of Porsche.
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  #6  
Old 12-16-2002, 04:36 PM
in_d_haus in_d_haus is offline
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It's convoluted but VW is the parent of Porsche and Audi when ya boil it all down
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  #7  
Old 12-16-2002, 04:41 PM
OBS3SSION OBS3SSION is offline
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I beleive VW is the largest auto manufacturing company (including all divisions) in the world. As the link above states, these are the companies that Volkswagen AG owns:

Volkswagen Division
Audi
Seat
Skoda
Volkswagen Commercial Vehicles
Bugatti,
Bentley,
Lamborghini, managed by Audi
Rolls-Royce/Bentley, the RR brand has to be transferred to BMW in 2003

Porsche and VW have done much technology sharing in the past... and into the future. But Porsche is not owned by VW.
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  #8  
Old 12-16-2002, 04:43 PM
Alex Baumann Alex Baumann is offline
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I always thought GM was the largest manufacturer, but I maybe wrong too.
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  #9  
Old 12-17-2002, 07:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Alex Baumann
I always thought GM was the largest manufacturer, but I maybe wrong too.
I believe you are correct, Alex. Toyota is the richest.
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  #10  
Old 12-17-2002, 07:42 AM
bluer1 bluer1 is offline
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Re: Does Porsche own Audi which owns VW?

Quote:
Originally posted by Magna
I hear that Porsche is independent, but many Porsche dealers are linked to Audi dealerships. What's their relationship? I think historically Ferdinand Porsche (founder) worked for VW, then started Porsche.
I dunno, but when I helped my college roomate rebuild the
engine in his 924, the block said Audi on it, not Porsche.

Of course, some (myself included) will argue that if the engine is
in the front, it's not a Porsche.
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  #11  
Old 12-17-2002, 08:28 AM
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Porsche is independent, Audi is owned by VW

As stated above, Porsche is an independent company, and to some extent they share engineering/production work with VW and Audi.

The new Cayenne/Tourag (sp?) is one example. Purportedly, Porsche actually did most of the engineering work, and VW kicked in their share of cash. Porsche also financed the project with earnings from the Boxster/911, which goes a long way in saying where their racing budget went.

The 924 actually started out as an Audi coupe. Towards the tail end of the project, Audi scrapped it, and Porsche decided to produce it on its own. However, they had no spare capacity, and Audi ended up making money on producing it for Porsche. Twisted, huh?

The last Autoweek has some good info on this....
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  #12  
Old 12-17-2002, 09:07 AM
ALEX325i ALEX325i is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by Alex Baumann
They share technology. The relationships between car companies can be complicated. For instance, DC and BMW producing engines in Brasil on joint venture.

Porsche once produced the Mercedes Benz 500E (W124), or Karmann Karosseriefabrik is producing the CLK Cabriolets etc.
Speaking of JV's...

VW and Ford used to share technology in the early 90's here in Brazil. The JV was named Autolatina... It didn't work out though...

IMO, Ford benefited the most from the JV... The Escort was equipped with a POS Ford CHT engine (a 1.6L engine based on an old Renault engine). Needless to say the XR3, which was supposed to be the sports version, performed worse than the Escort L (all versions had the same engine, but the XR3 was heavier due to cosmetic mods)... So, Autolatina decided to give the XR3 a 1.8L VW engine that was good enough to propel the car from 0-100 Km/h in 9.8s... Not bad for an early 90's Ford Escort IMO...
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  #13  
Old 12-17-2002, 12:49 PM
Jspeed Jspeed is offline
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Side-tracking a little bit here...
so when will Honda and BMW have a strategic alliance?
I see almost no product overlap, especially now that Honda is sticking w/ FWD. Let's imagine... reliable electrical systems, engines that rev to 8000+rpm w/o blowing up. I could get used to this!
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  #14  
Old 12-17-2002, 01:07 PM
DaveN323i DaveN323i is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jspeed
Side-tracking a little bit here...
so when will Honda and BMW have a strategic alliance?
I see almost no product overlap, especially now that Honda is sticking w/ FWD. Let's imagine... reliable electrical systems, engines that rev to 8000+rpm w/o blowing up. I could get used to this!
Another Axis alliance? Didn't Second World War taught them a lesson?

I doubt so. The strength of both car companies are in their engines (even with the exploding M3 engines). Unless BMW let Honda develop the small 4 cylinder engines (for the Mini, 1 series, and European market), I don't see anything that can be combined. They are actually two car companies with quite different philosophies.
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  #15  
Old 12-17-2002, 02:15 PM
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DrBimmer DrBimmer is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by ALEX325i
Speaking of JV's...

VW and Ford used to share technology in the early 90's here in Brazil. The JV was named Autolatina... It didn't work out though...

Ford and VW have a manufacturing plant in Portugal that makes minivans that are sold under the VW/Seat/Ford badges in Europe. I think they are the Ford Galaxy, Seat Alhambra and VW Sharan, but I'm not sure. To be honest, I don't even know if they still make them... But I know the factory isn't too far from my house over there.
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  #16  
Old 12-17-2002, 02:53 PM
ZBB 325Ci ZBB 325Ci is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jspeed
Side-tracking a little bit here...
so when will Honda and BMW have a strategic alliance?
I see almost no product overlap, especially now that Honda is sticking w/ FWD. Let's imagine... reliable electrical systems, engines that rev to 8000+rpm w/o blowing up. I could get used to this!
Actually, all kidding aside, a Honda-BMW alliance would make a lot of sense...

Unfortunately, the Rover debacle will probably keep the companies from even considering it... Before BMW bought Rover, Rover had a relationship with Honda -- Rover got Honda technology, and Honda got to use a Rover plant for production and I believe Honda owned ~5% of Rover. Honda was even considering buying Rover when BMW made the move to buy Rover in '94. Honda was rather pissed at BMW and completely walked away from Rover, even though they were legally bound to continue sharing technology with Rover (and now BMW...) (BMW and Honda settled the matter a couple months away, but it formally severed the relationship). Honda lost 3-4 years in their attempt to sell more cars in Europe (through plants in Europe).

Not that there's any grudge on that, but based on Honda's action at the time, I would doubt they would desire any sort of alliance. But then again... times change

Note -- I wrote a paper on the above topic in grad school -- for a competitive inteligence class where a company failed (Honda in my paper) to act on (or even believe) public knowledge and was then hurt by their inaction. I wrote the paper in '95 before Rover became BMW's English Patient. In retrospect, Honda probably made out pretty well..
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