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3 Series / 4 Series
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  #1  
Old 12-17-2002, 08:28 PM
03BMW330 03BMW330 is offline
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330i with SMG

did anybody see this 330i with SMG
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  #2  
Old 12-17-2002, 08:55 PM
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Wouldn't be surprised. European 3 series has SMG as an optional transmission for the past what, 2+ years now?
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  #3  
Old 12-17-2002, 09:06 PM
03BMW330 03BMW330 is offline
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i don't get it???
This country has more buying power the hole world together wouldn't you think
they would try to make more money here then in Europe
mine credit card limit is $25000 guess how many i have
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  #4  
Old 12-17-2002, 09:11 PM
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Simple arithmatics. About 12% of ALL BMW buyers in U.S. chooses a manual transmission. About 50% of all BMW buyers outside of U.S. choose the manual transmission.

Now, figure that U.S. marketshare of the overall BMW pie is what, about 40%? It makes very little sense to bring the SMG to the U.S. when they figure it's only about 5% of the overall market.

And if you assume that 50% of the overseas manual buyers would buy the SMG over the manual, you can easily see why (25% of buyers) BMW choose to make SMGs for Europe but not US.
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Quote:
"Bench racing" about track times driven by professionals are like a bunch of nerds arguing which Princess Leia is hotter, the slave Leia or the no-bra jail-bait Leia. No matter how compelling your argument is, the plain and simple fact is, none of you will EVER get to hit that.
  #5  
Old 12-17-2002, 09:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by The HACK
Simple arithmatics. About 12% of ALL BMW buyers in U.S. chooses a manual transmission. About 50% of all BMW buyers outside of U.S. choose the manual transmission.

On the 3 series, it is more like 35%

I bet they could make money on it, especially now with 6 speed and SMG making it to non-Ms in the US now...
  #6  
Old 12-17-2002, 09:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by nate328Ci
On the 3 series, it is more like 35%

I bet they could make money on it, especially now with 6 speed and SMG making it to non-Ms in the US now...
Who knows why BMW choose NOT to bring the SMG over...They must have done some pretty extensive $$$ analysis to come to the conclusion that bringing SMG here would not make money.

I HIGHLY doubt that the U.S. 3 series sales figure supports your 35% claim. I think something like overall, only 6% of all cars sold in U.S. are manual transmission cars (and oddly enough, if I recall correctly the ratio of manual drivers is like 2 female to 1 male). Hard to imagine why dealers would stock nothing but 3 series slushies if indeed the manuals are being sold at a 35% clip.
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Quote:
"Bench racing" about track times driven by professionals are like a bunch of nerds arguing which Princess Leia is hotter, the slave Leia or the no-bra jail-bait Leia. No matter how compelling your argument is, the plain and simple fact is, none of you will EVER get to hit that.
  #7  
Old 12-17-2002, 09:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by The HACK


I HIGHLY doubt that the U.S. 3 series sales figure supports your 35% claim. I think something like overall, only 6% of all cars sold in U.S. are manual transmission cars (and oddly enough, if I recall correctly the ratio of manual drivers is like 2 female to 1 male). Hard to imagine why dealers would stock nothing but 3 series slushies if indeed the manuals are being sold at a 35% clip.
Well, I believe that is the figure published in Automobile and the literature I recieved from BMW during the launch of the E46 coupe.

I see manuals stocked at BMW dealers, and see many manual E46s on the road. I have even seen manual non-SP X5s and 525is on the lot. Maybe in SoCal you don't get manuals, but I see them all the time. I am hoping to get a manual loaner next week, yes, they have manual loaners.

It doesn't suprise me that women drive manuals more, I have seen this in practice. Also, I think there are more non-SP E46s with manual than SP equipped cars.
  #8  
Old 12-17-2002, 11:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by nate328Ci
I am hoping to get a manual loaner next week, yes, they have manual loaners.

Funny you should mention this. When I used to take my E36 to Pacific BMW for service, and I needed a loaner car, I would simply ask for the manual 318ti - it was ALWAYS available! None of their other service customers apparently cared to drive it.
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  #9  
Old 12-18-2002, 01:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by nate328Ci
I see manuals stocked at BMW dealers, and see many manual E46s on the road. I have even seen manual non-SP X5s and 525is on the lot. Maybe in SoCal you don't get manuals, but I see them all the time.
I can count the number of manual 3s I've seen on dealer lots with one hand. To be honest, I wouldn't be at all surprised if BMW sold more 3's in California than all the other states combined. If 35% is an accurate figure, it's probably because all the other states sell a more balanced proportion of sticks and STEPs. I would guess 10% or fewer of all E46s in the Golden State are manuals.

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  #10  
Old 12-18-2002, 01:18 AM
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VOB here has plenty of manuals on the lot. CA is just full of pansies.

That said, from what I've heard, SMG/SSG isn't that good, anyhow.
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  #11  
Old 12-18-2002, 02:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by jgrgnt
I can count the number of manual 3s I've seen on dealer lots with one hand. To be honest, I wouldn't be at all surprised if BMW sold more 3's in California than all the other states combined. If 35% is an accurate figure, it's probably because all the other states sell a more balanced proportion of sticks and STEPs. I would guess 10% or fewer of all E46s in the Golden State are manuals.

The last time I was on a US BMW lot the only manuals they had were pre-ordered cars they were prepping for delivery to the buyers. In fact the only way I was able to do a test drive in a manual was because they had a customer order a manual and then backed out of the deal. I managed a quick drive before the car was dealer traded to a waiting buyer
  #12  
Old 12-18-2002, 06:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Raffi
Funny you should mention this. When I used to take my E36 to Pacific BMW for service, and I needed a loaner car, I would simply ask for the manual 318ti - it was ALWAYS available! None of their other service customers apparently cared to drive it.
Last loaner I got was a 540i SP.

The manuals were a 2.5L Z3 and E46 328i
  #13  
Old 12-18-2002, 07:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by The HACK

Now, figure that U.S. marketshare of the overall BMW pie is what, about 40%? It makes very little sense to bring the SMG to the U.S. when they figure it's only about 5% of the overall market.
I'm sure many people have seen these overall auto figures through September '02. If not...

Germany - 27.1%
USA - 23.5%
Great Britain - 10.0 %
France - 4.1%
Japan - 4.0%
Other Countries - 31.3%
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Last edited by jw; 12-18-2002 at 07:19 AM.
  #14  
Old 12-18-2002, 07:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by jw
I'm sure many people have seen these overall auto figures through September '02. If not...

Germany - 27.1%
USA - 23.5%
Great Britain - 10.0 %
France - 4.1%
Japan - 4.0%
Other Countries - 31.3%
Is that the percentage of BMWs sold with manual?
  #15  
Old 12-18-2002, 10:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by nate328Ci
Is that the percentage of BMWs sold with manual?
That is total overall automobile sales.
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  #16  
Old 12-18-2002, 10:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by jw
That is total overall automobile sales.
Are you sereious?

What's the source?

23.5% of vehicles sold in the US are manuals, that's hard to believe...
  #17  
Old 12-18-2002, 10:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by nate328Ci
Are you sereious?

What's the source?

23.5% of vehicles sold in the US are manuals, that's hard to believe...
Latest copy of BMW Magazine that went out a month or two ago.

I think you're misunderstanding the figures. It is the total amount of automobiles that BMW sold, regardless of make/model/transmission/etc.

EDIT: 23.5% is a far cry from the estimated 40% that HACK stated above.
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  #18  
Old 12-18-2002, 10:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by jw
Latest copy of BMW Magazine that went out a month or two ago.

I think you're misunderstanding the figures. It is the total amount of automobiles that BMW sold, regardless of make/model/transmission/etc.

EDIT: 23.5% is a far cry from the estimated 40% that HACK stated above.
OH, I thought you meant vehicles including non-BMWs.

23.5% seems reasonable.
  #19  
Old 12-18-2002, 10:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by nate328Ci
OH, I thought you meant vehicles including non-BMWs.

23.5% seems reasonable.
DUUDE! He meant that 23.5% of all BMW sold comes to the United States, not 23.5% of all BMW in U.S. is stick. We still don't have that figure tied down...

I think last I heard from Shafer, his dealership sells about 10% stick to auto.
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"Bench racing" about track times driven by professionals are like a bunch of nerds arguing which Princess Leia is hotter, the slave Leia or the no-bra jail-bait Leia. No matter how compelling your argument is, the plain and simple fact is, none of you will EVER get to hit that.
  #20  
Old 12-18-2002, 11:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by The HACK
I think last I heard from Shafer, his dealership sells about 10% stick to auto.
There ya have it.
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  #21  
Old 12-18-2002, 11:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by The HACK

I think last I heard from Shafer, his dealership sells about 10% stick to auto.
That's probably a good estimate. The US long ago shunned manual transmissions for the general populous.
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  #22  
Old 12-18-2002, 11:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by The HACK
DUUDE! He meant that 23.5% of all BMW sold comes to the United States, not 23.5% of all BMW in U.S. is stick. We still don't have that figure tied down...

I think last I heard from Shafer, his dealership sells about 10% stick to auto.
OK. That includes the 7er, which has no manual available, the X5, which only comes with a manual in the little engine, and the 5er, which definitely has a smaller percentage of sticks sold than the 3er (for some reason, people equate big cars with automatics).

Anyway, I have also seen the 35% stick/auto ratio for the 3er that Nate referenced. Don't have time to dig up the cite right now, but I have no reason to doubt that it is correct. I recall that number vividly, because I remember Lexus saying that they were only anticipating a 10ish percent take rate on their manual in the IS300, and it didn't make sense to me that a more "sports oriented" car would ship fewer manuals (I wrote a letter to Automobile about this at some point).

Anyway, some huge percentage (80? 90?) of BMWs are pre-sold (i.e., ordered), so the fact that most dealer stock cars are automatic means nothing at all.
  #23  
Old 12-18-2002, 01:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Nick325xiT 5spd
VOB here has plenty of manuals on the lot. CA is just full of pansies.

That said, from what I've heard, SMG/SSG isn't that good, anyhow.
Whatever. Bring your stick over here and I'll direct you to a street in San Francisco. Don't blame me if white smoke comes out of your car and stench your nice leather.

Having had a manual for 15 years, I no longer want that kind of masochist commute.
  #24  
Old 12-18-2002, 01:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by The HACK
I think last I heard from Shafer, his dealership sells about 10% stick to auto.
And those are all custom-ordered... he orders NO stick-equipped cars for the lot.
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  #25  
Old 12-18-2002, 02:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by The HACK
I think last I heard from Shafer, his dealership sells about 10% stick to auto.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



And those are all custom-ordered... he orders NO stick-equipped cars for the lot.:
Not surprising. Folks who buy sticks are probably the more serious drivers, overall, and are likely to want to place a custom order anyway. The folks who just go looking and are "ready to buy today" from whatever is on the lot are probably happy, for the most part, to buy an auto.

Hack's earlier point is basically right. Even if 20% of the 3ers sold are sticks (since all the 7ers and most of the 5ers are autos), that's still a pretty narrow market for the SMG, especially when it would add $1-2k to the price (at least).

Would I like to see SMG as an option? Yes. Can I understand why BMW doesn't offer it here? Yes. Too bad, but that's business. BMW isn't a charity.
 

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