Brake Buying GB...

Here's what i got from my guy. i'm still waiting to hear back on shipping but i'm getting a set of Brembo's and Deluxe pads. Just figure since we were on brakes, here's the price list he got me since i asked him for ppl here who would be interested.
this is a one time deal from my end since i'm doing a lot of the leg work to set people who need brakes and were i get them from; no profits on my end, just want everyone to have a happy holidays here. let me know what you want and i'll pass it forward to him though this is just a feeler, no promises that he'll do this price since i did tell him there are some interest (like 10). if we can get 10, i think it'll be good for everyone. if there isn't a lot of interest, then i'm just going to order my set. i'm not sure if he's going to do just rotors since he prefers to sell a whole kit; from my understanding, if you are going to do pads, you really ought to do rotors as well.


just highlight what you want via bold or delete what you don't want... like i don't need any 528/525 or the 530 stuff. i just highlighted what i want.







BMW E39 528i / 525i & T
Brembo Rotor (Front) 34111163081 $49.00 ea 2 Required
Brembo Rotor (Rear) 34211164175 $44.00 ea 2 Required
ATE Rotor (Front) 34111163081 $40.00 ea 2 Required
ATE Rotor (Rear) 34211164175 $38.00 ea 2 Required
Brake Sensor (Front) 34352229018 $9.50 ea 1 Required
Brake Sensor (Rear) 34351163066 $8.50 ea 1 Required

Brake Pads (Front) PBR Deluxe $38.00
PBR Metal Master $45.00
PBR Ultimate Ceramic $48.00
Brake Pads (Rear) PBR Deluxe $22.00
PBR Metal Master $26.00 P
BR Ultimate Ceramic $30.00


BMW E39 530i
Zimmerman Rotor (Front) 34111165859 $60.00 ea 2 Required
Brembo Rotor (Front) 34111165859 $71.00 ea 2 Required
Brembo Rotor (Rear) 34211163153 $43.00 ea 2 Required
ATE Rotor (Front) 34111165859 $55.00 ea 2 Required
ATE Rotor (Rear) 34211163153 $37.00 ea 2 Required
Aftermarket (Rear) 34211163153 $33.00 ea 2 Required
Brake Sensor (Front) 34352229018 $9.50 ea 1 Required
Brake Sensor (Rear) 34351163066 $8.50 ea 1 Required

Brake Pads (Front) PBR Deluxe $57.00
PBR Metal Master $65.00
PBR Ultimate Ceramic $70.00
Brake Pads (Rear) PBR Deluxe $22.00
PBR Metal Master $26.00
PBR Ultimate Ceramic $30.00


BMW E39 540i
Brembo Rotor (Front) 34111159895 $65.00 ea 2 Required
Brembo Rotor (Rear) 34211163153 $43.00 ea 2 Required
ATE Rotor (Front) 34111159895 $55.00 ea 2 Required
ATE Rotor (Rear) 34211163153 $37.00 ea 2 Required
Aftermarket (Front) 34111159895 $40.00 ea 2 Required
Aftermarket (Rear) 34211163153 $33.00 ea 2 Required
Brake Sensor (Front) 34352229018 $9.50 ea 1 Required
Brake Sensor (Rear) 34351163066 $8.50 ea 1 Required

Brake Pads (Front) PBR Deluxe $57.00
PBR Metal Master $65.00
PBR Ultimate Ceramic $70.00
Brake Pads (Rear) PBR Deluxe $22.00
PBR Metal Master $26.00
PBR Ultimate Ceramic $30.00




DOT 4 Pentosin Fluid 1L $8.00
DOT4 ATE Super Blue 1L $10.50

I just ordered mine from Bill @ MSR! why didn't you tell me earlier!

Originally Posted by kaptom540

I just ordered mine from Bill @ MSR! why didn't you tell me earlier!

just got word of this... i was just asking casually since we were working on your brakes and i wanted to do mine and he finally got back to me on this today.

Chivas-

I don't need a full set... I need rear rotors and pads all around.

Prices look good, here is what I want if possible;

Qty 2 x Brembo Rotor (Rear) 34211163153 $43.00 ea = $86.00
Brake Pads (Front) PBR Deluxe $57.00
Brake Pads (Rear) PBR Deluxe $22.00

$165 + ship ?? Getting this under $200 is a deal.

Originally Posted by z0lt3c

Chivas-

I don't need a full set... I need rear rotors and pads all around.

Prices look good, here is what I want if possible;

Qty 2 x Brembo Rotor (Rear) 34211163153 $43.00 ea = $86.00
Brake Pads (Front) PBR Deluxe $57.00
Brake Pads (Rear) PBR Deluxe $22.00

$165 + ship ?? Getting this under $200 is a deal.

that's what i'm waiting to hear back on, the shipping.

i would agree, under $200 for all 4 is a deal and that's why i'm trying to pass this on to ppl here.

hopefully i can talk to my contact and make him a vendor here but i think he's waiting to see how this unfolds and the amount of interest this would generate.

Nvm my parents think my brakes are fine as is :/

Originally Posted by lex89

I just had my brakes replaced by the dealer back in May. I didn't want them to do it, but my mom got to it before I could (it was my dad's car back then). I don't know what they used or which ones they replaced (I know front was replaced, not back though). I really want the Axxis Deluxes, but I don't think I need to replace my rotors. Can I just get or do I need to get rotors too?

BMW E39 528i / 525i & T

Brake Sensor (Front) 34352229018 $9.50 ea 1 Required
Brake Sensor (Rear) 34351163066 $8.50 ea 1 Required

Brake Pads (Front) PBR Deluxe $38.00
Brake Pads (Rear) PBR Deluxe $22.00

i've always done rotors with pads.

with some recent technological posts, it seems sometimes the new pads works best with new rotors but i don't know the specifics or the validity of it since i've also read 2 pads per rotor is the rule of thumb for changing E39 brakes. i just do it because it's cheap and really sucks doing the rotors half way thru the life of the pads then the wear gets all funky.

always do new pads and rotors unless you are resurfacing the rotors. Reason is because not every caliper makes contact at the perfect time, which creates either an uneven pad or odd "striping" on the rotor, meaning different levels of the surface from the pad wearing the rotor down. When you put a brand new pad on an old rotor, the pad will wears very fast and unevenly till it has made a level surface...that is what I have learned

oh yeah I would be interested in rear rotors and pads too, Brembo rear and the PBR ultimate ceramic

quick request:

please email me: chivas228 at gmail.com with the subject line: Brake GB
of what you want... just highlight the whole line (including the price), your location (Zip would be fine to see about shipping) and i'll make a spreadsheet out of it AND YOUR SCREEN NAME!!! makes my life a bit easier to send to him.

so far, i have 4 (including me).. anyone else, reply to this thread with YGM (You Got Mail) so i can check it. No promises on the final price since it's contingent on the shipping cost but it looks good so far.

Originally Posted by kaptom540

I just ordered mine from Bill @ MSR! why didn't you tell me earlier!

sorry, i was busy with you know what...

did he actually charge you or did he order it and you're going to pick it up and pay him then?

I need rotors+pads too!!

Originally Posted by ketchup

I need rotors+pads too!!

what kind of pads? got the email.

Originally Posted by chivas

what kind of pads? got the email.

I have no idea, whatever is good and cheap. I also need brake sensors (req'd for new rotors right?). Ugh I'm not looking forward to spending all of this money!!!!

How do you tell when you really need new brakes? My indy shop said that I'm going to need new ones and I feel that the car brakes fine.

Hope this is still going on! i need rotors/pads for a 528i! Emailin chivas right now..

Originally Posted by s0caL.e39

Hope this is still going on! i need rotors/pads for a 528i! Emailin chivas right now..

yep.. email me.

Originally Posted by chivas

yep.. email me.

YGPM!

Ygm

Originally Posted by OlyVR

Ygm

1) Can you tell me how much shipping to zip 29651 would be for 4 rotors, 2 sets of pads and the required sensors?

I looked in the thread but could (or just didn’t) see it.

2) If I ordered by the end of the week, would I still get them prior to Christmas?

1: i'm trying to find this info out myself. he's hearing back sometime this week about how much shipping would be from his supplier.

2: not sure.. i assume so but again, it depends on when he hears back from his supplier.



will keep everyone posted.

i need a entire set of rotors and pads, will email you now. thanks!

hey bud.. quick questions... maybe u answered already i just didnt have time to read.

1. are the brembo's slotted or x drilled? cause im looking for oem replacements.

2. when you really think this is going to go thru?
cause i want in, but I gotta wait a week or so . I need to finish my xmas shopping.




and

BTW guys... theres NO REASON to replace ROTORS if they ARE NOT WARP'd.
I noticed alot of you just seem to replace ur rotors like its part of the job. well its not.

a 5 dollar resurface brings ur rotors to life again for ANOTHER full life of PADS.

Originally Posted by Chenz

hey bud.. quick questions... maybe u answered already i just didnt have time to read.

1. are the brembo's slotted or x drilled? cause im looking for oem replacements.

2. when you really think this is going to go thru?
cause i want in, but I gotta wait a week or so . I need to finish my xmas shopping.

they are blanks and not x-drilled or slotted. OE replacements.
i'm thinking it might start monday of next week since he's tied up getting shipping info to go all over. i'm going to get my set end of this week and post what it looks like and what it includes. since he's 30 minutes from me, it doesn't make a difference in shipping so don't worry, i'm not going to start the train since there's a healthy amount of interests.

Originally Posted by Chenz

and

BTW guys... theres NO REASON to replace ROTORS if they ARE NOT WARP'd.
I noticed alot of you just seem to replace ur rotors like its part of the job. well its not.

a 5 dollar resurface brings ur rotors to life again for ANOTHER full life of PADS.

Originally Posted by Brian McKinney

always do new pads and rotors unless you are resurfacing the rotors. Reason is because not every caliper makes contact at the perfect time, which creates either an uneven pad or odd "striping" on the rotor, meaning different levels of the surface from the pad wearing the rotor down. When you put a brand new pad on an old rotor, the pad will wears very fast and unevenly till it has made a level surface...that is what I have learned

i wouldn't shave the rotors because BMW is known to have soft rotors to match the wear of the pads. american cars have hard rotors and changing pads and shaving the rotors are fine. this was told to me from a very well knowledged BMW guy who subscribes to "Motor" or is it "Motoring" magazine which did a whole write up brakes from different manufactures and car designers.

and from a safety perspective, i just wouldn't shave my rotors... ever. it's not that expensive and it's a good piece of mind knowing everything is in spec.

so where's this guy located? is it worth the drive for me?

Originally Posted by Chenz

so where's this guy located? is it worth the drive for me?

Central Jersey (Woodbridge).

it's long but damn, it's worth readin' not all brakes are the same and if you are going to get new pads, you REALLY REALLY should get rotors too.

Originally Posted by mastertechmag.com

Bye, Bye Brake Lathe?

By Bob Freudenberger

Not quite, but there’s definitely a trend toward replacement.

Here’s why...

Our brake lathe went in the trash,” a Mercedes-Benz service manager tells Master Technician. A veteran brake trainer says, “Within the next five years, you won’t see a brake lathe in a shop.” A successful Euro car specialist tells us, “We’ve gotten rid of our brake lathe. The tolerances on late models are so close, any appreciable wear demands that the rotors be replaced.”
Yup, fewer and fewer professionals in the auto service business are machining discs. They’ve sworn it off in favor of buying new ones. Now that’s a profound change considering that it wasn’t very long ago when every shop in the galaxy automatically turned rotors during a reline providing they weren’t already down to their legal throw-away thickness. That process was supposed to give a nice, fresh face that would break in along with the pads. Well, as Greg McConiga, former NAPA/ASE Tech of the Year and honored colleague at MT, puts it, “We need to take a stand on the old ‘turn ‘em every time’ baloney and tell them that if there’s no runout or DTV (Disc Thickness Variation), and if they’re thick enough, you can’t beat a work-polished rotor surface.”



Early Glimpse

We were tipped off to this trend way back in ‘97 by a Pontiac TSB. During normal pad replacement, it said, use the discs as-is providing the grooves aren’t deeper than .060 in. If those concentric furrows exceed that limit, replacement is the remedy. And in high-pedal-effort situations, GM wanted you to buy new rotors if the originals have ever been turned. In essence, the biggest carmaker in the world was telling us brake lathes are obsolete.


It's not likely that you'll be machining futuristic discs like this fiber-reinforced ceramic composite SLR McLaren specimen (courtesy Mercedes-Benz).

Obsolete? Providing you do what's necessary to achieve a fine finish, not necessarily.

Blasphemy and revolution! But there were two good reasons why this bulletin came down from on high. One, rotors have gotten pretty skinny, and the thinner they get the less able they are to absorb and dissipate all that heat, and to withstand warpage. As one brake company tech trainer tells us, “I agree with the GM recommendation that if the rotors aren’t in bad shape and there’s no complaint, why refinish them? There isn’t a whole lot of extra meat to take off today.” While the notion of “hanging pads” might be offensive to your sense of craftsmanship, just get over it.

Two, noise and hard pedal complaints and prematurely worn-out linings are very common with some of the brakes out there (the big company was having lots of trouble with friction formulas in those days). The factory service engineers believe these problems are promoted and compounded by poor machining procedures that leave a rough or inaccurate surface. Also, it’s been proved that discs should be as smooth as possible in order to produce maximum stopping power, and sloppy turning will actually make a rotor rougher than it was when it came off the car.

So that leaves replacement, which, besides being fast, amounts to a profitable parts sale for the shop. That doesn’t mean, however, that there are never cases where machining is appropriate, as we’ll explain.



Wobbly

But installing new discs isn’t necessarily a guarantee that you won’t get a repeat pulsation complaint. As Wally Marciniak, Manager of Technical Services for Affinia Under-Vehicle Group (Raybestos brand, www.raybestos.com), puts it, “A lot of people assume that just putting new rotors on will eliminate the problem. But you need to clock them in to get the least possible runout. Check and record runout in all of the possible mounting positions, and use the one with the least. The true runout of any rotor is when it’s tightened down on the hub.” Most authorities say you shouldn’t have over .002 in. of wobble, while others say .001 is the limit.




As we hope you're aware by now, you can keep from causing runout problems by always tightening lugs with a torque wrench instead of your thermonuclear impact gun. Use the proper pattern, please.



A neat way of reducing runout to just about nil is to use tapered shims, such as those made by Brake Align (www.brakealign.com), between the disc and the hub. Of course, you already know that you’ve got to get those hubs as clean as possible so you don’t get a mounting error.



Chain of Events

You may be asking, “Floating and sliding calipers should just ride with runout, so what’s the big deal about some wobble?”


Sure, most calipers slide or float, so you might think they'd just ride with runout. Unfortunately, in the process the discs develop DTV.

Aha, there’s a trick to it, something that many people don’t understand: When it comes right down to basics, the direct cause of pulsation is DTV, which can also be seen as a lack of parallelism between the two sides of a rotor. The wobble we’ve been talking about causes the disc to wear unevenly as it hits those abrasive pads in one spot on each side every revolution. In other words, the contact areas will end up thinner than the rest of the rotor. One on-car lathe manufacturer claims that, typically, .002 in. of runout with zero-clearance bearings will cause about .0004 in. of DTV in 3,000 to 5,000 miles. Some authorities want thickness variation to be held to .0002 in., while others say it will take twice that to generate a complaint. Regardless, you can see that allowing any appreciable wobble out the door can be dangerous to your reputation.
There’s yet another factor that aggravates the development of DTV on late models. To reduce rolling drag, in many vehicles the engineers opted for pre-loaded, zero-clearance front wheel bearings, which require a less scuff-producing toe-in setting. But with no end play to absorb hub and rotor imperfections, any runout at all causes contact between the pads and rotor, increasing the wear that results in thickness variation.



Hand #2

But there’s always the other hand, isn’t there? As you may have noticed, two of the absolutists quoted in the introduction specialize in European cars. At the shop where we were recently working, we’d sometimes pull the wheels off an upscale Euro and know that those discs needed to be replaced by just looking at them. We’re not talking grooves. We mean a visible wide depression made by pad contact.
This is what we call the “Autobahn brake phenomenon.” As Mohammad Vakili, Manager
of Technical Affairs for Continental Teves-ATE (www.conti-online.com), explained to MT, “Vehicle sensitivity in Europe is different … linings are aggressive and tend to produce noise, which is dampened by a soft rotor. In Europe, they design them to wear each other proportionally. They use softer metallurgy than in the U.S. or Japan, where they have milder pads and harder rotors.” So, where we Americans have become accustomed to thinking that rotors should last forever, in European vehicles they’re supposed to wear out along with the pads. That’s the price you pay for being able to “stop on a dime and get nine cents change,” as a brake expert once said to us.Most of us aren’t Euro specialists, however, so we typically get reline jobs where the rotors are still plenty thick. As we said above, if your test drive reveals no pulsation, swallow your prejudices and hang those pads. In cases where pulsation was the reason the customer appeared at your door, you are probably doing the right thing by machining away the DTV. That is, as long as you take the time to maintain your lathe and use it properly. That’s fodder for another article.


Nobody's going to argue with the stopping power of a BMW brake, but it comes at the cost of faster rotor wear than most of us are used to.



Looks About the Same, But . . .

When replacement is the proper path, how do you choose among the rotors on the market? Do you try to save the customer a few dollars, or would you rather feel confident that the job won’t come back to haunt you?
Vakili tells us that since ATE already makes O.E. rotors, it doesn’t fool around with manufacturing a cheaper version for the aftermarket. If you buy that brand, you simply get original quality. Marciniak of Affinia says, “Whenever a new car comes out, we buy an O.E. rotor and dissect it so we know we’re producing original quality designs and metallurgy.”


The configuration of those fins is an engineered feature. Quality replacements match O.E. no matter how complex, whereas off-brands just do what's easiest (courtesy Raybestos).

This O.E.-quality replacement rotor has a designed-in groove that improves pad wear and performance, and serves as a visual indicator (courtesy Continental Teves-ATE).

Besides metallurgy and internal structure, there’s a factor that might cause serious problems with off-brand rotors that most people aren’t aware of: hub chamfer. If the angle doesn’t match the hub exactly, the disc won’t seat right, leading to big trouble with runout and heat dissipation, yet some cheap items just use, say, 45% as a one-size-fits-all manufacturing convenience. Our advice: Buy brand name only if you want to protect your relationship with your customers and your schedule.



In a Nutshell


An on-car lathe is still an excellent way to assure hat a pulsation problem is well and truly solved (courtesy Hunter Engineering, www.hunter.com)

Here's the on-car lathe Subaru requires its dealers to have. Once you learn the set-up, it produces a beautiful finish (www.procutinternational.com).

In keeping with Master Technician’s mission of offering immediately useful solutions, we’ll boil the above down into a few rules:

If there’s no pulsation and the rotors are still thick enough (look it up), just hang pads. You may, however, want to service non-unitized wheel bearings, in which case you should mark the rotor and hub so you can assemble them in the same relative positions.


Whenever you install discs, new or otherwise, get that hub perfectly clean and make sure you mount them in the position that gives the least runout. Also, tapered shims are a great way to eliminate wobble.


If the grooves are deeper than .060 in., you’re justified in buying new rotors. An easy way to measure the depth of a rotor groove is to use a dime. If the top of F.D.R.’s head is still showing, you’re within the .060 in. limit. If the groove’s too narrow for the coin to be inserted, don’t worry about it.


If there’s a pulsation complaint, you have a decision to make: machine or replace. If there’s still plenty of thickness left, you can machine off-car and hope for the best (we’re assuming you know how to produce a properly smooth surface — contrary to popular belief, a mirror-like finish would be ideal). Or, you can increase your chances of success by using a good on-car lathe (make index marks for future reference). Finally, there are good reasons to opt for new high-quality discs: They’ll be less apt to warp because they’ll be thicker, you won’t be spending time with the lathe, and you’ll make a nice parts profit. Of course, if the bumpy braking condition is due to a crack, the decision is made for you.