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E60 M5 (2006 - 2010)

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  #26  
Old 12-28-2006, 07:47 AM
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Originally Posted by wheel-man View Post
C/D has really lost its way. They no longer look at cars from a performance perspective, merely from an engine output and interior design/ergonomics vantage. You think those clowns would give it a rest with iDrive already. I guess there iQ is insufficient to finally familiarize themselves with it after all the years they've tested bimmers with it.

The new M5 won hands down in EVO's shoot-out. That's all that matters if you want to rely on journals for your understanding and perspective of a car's handling and performance.
If you read the article, you'll see that their primary complaint is the lack of a DSC kill switch, because of the impact that the stability control system has on performance. In other words, it is their performance perspective that causes them to rank the M5 lower. They simply found the S6 and E63 more engaging drives.

The E60 M5 that EVO tested was SMG, correct? SMG cars are not hobbled with an always-on DSC system.

The article does take a swipe at iDrive, but it is hardly the focus of the piece.
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  #27  
Old 12-28-2006, 07:59 AM
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Originally Posted by chuck92103 View Post
You are correct, forgot about GM. I seen it on the vette.
yeh, my friend has it on the vette, but my mom had it on her OLD pontiac bonnivelle sse.
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  #28  
Old 12-28-2006, 12:03 PM
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Can someone confirm or deny the loss of a DSC kill switch? Did the C&D guys hold the button for 10 seconds? If there is an ///M which cannot fully disengage DSC i will have lost faith in one of my favorite brands.
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  #29  
Old 12-28-2006, 02:33 PM
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Dont get me wrong the M5 is a great machine......in its home country.
Yes, if you can afford that car in Germany. Maintenance, insurance, gas-prices and taxes kill you over there. And the Autobahn isn't always clear or free of speed-limits (I would say 50% already have a permanent limit).
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  #30  
Old 12-28-2006, 02:39 PM
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I -drive is a whipping boy for the uninformed. Do you think they have trouble using their mouse on their home computer? Its a crock.
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  #31  
Old 12-28-2006, 04:13 PM
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I -drive is a whipping boy for the uninformed. Do you think they have trouble using their mouse on their home computer? Its a crock.
That is a good arguement/point.
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  #32  
Old 12-28-2006, 04:14 PM
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Originally Posted by zeagle3 View Post
I -drive is a whipping boy for the uninformed. Do you think they have trouble using their mouse on their home computer? Its a crock.
What I find amazing is that iDrive has been out for over 5 years. Even if you believe it takes more than 30 minutes to figure it out, one would hope that the same car reviewers year after year would know how to work the same basic system that BMW has been using for years by now. The key to the system, like many others, is that iDrive encompasses the haptic controller, voice activation, both programmable and fix steering buttons, and dash controls. However, they always focus on the controller and never bother to learn, review, or understand the entire package.
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  #33  
Old 12-28-2006, 04:55 PM
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Originally Posted by chuck92103 View Post
What I find amazing is that iDrive has been out for over 5 years. Even if you believe it takes more than 30 minutes to figure it out, one would hope that the same car reviewers year after year would know how to work the same basic system that BMW has been using for years by now. The key to the system, like many others, is that iDrive encompasses the haptic controller, voice activation, both programmable and fix steering buttons, and dash controls. However, they always focus on the controller and never bother to learn, review, or understand the entire package.
Absolutely right! BTW, why is nobody jumping on Mercdes' S-Class approach? What's different? Oh, right, they didn't call it "iDrive"...

I change from iDrive (760 and M5) to non-iDrive (X5) on a regular basis and I see no reason in the world why entering info and making selections with this tiny X5-button should be considered "easier"....

I LOVE iDrive!
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  #34  
Old 12-28-2006, 04:59 PM
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I change from iDrive (760 and M5) to non-iDrive (X5) on a regular basis and I see no reason in the world why entering info and making selections with this tiny X5-button should be considered "easier"....
What tiny X5 button?
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  #35  
Old 12-28-2006, 05:05 PM
sdbrandon sdbrandon is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chuck92103 View Post
What I find amazing is that iDrive has been out for over 5 years. Even if you believe it takes more than 30 minutes to figure it out, one would hope that the same car reviewers year after year would know how to work the same basic system that BMW has been using for years by now. The key to the system, like many others, is that iDrive encompasses the haptic controller, voice activation, both programmable and fix steering buttons, and dash controls. However, they always focus on the controller and never bother to learn, review, or understand the entire package.
This fact does not bode well for the car reviewers. I remember reading an article about the Lexus nav and the average customer being confused as well. They repeatedily mistook the cig lighter for A/C controls.

I am not defending iDrive, it certainly has room for improvement as does any system, however, the repeated failure of the press says a lot about their intellect. I just do not think they are ready to embrace computers and cars together. That is the crux of the issue.

BMW was first, MB followed with Audi, Lexus has an iDrive system but has not released it yet. It will happen just like the Bangle butt was copied iDrive will be as well.
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  #36  
Old 12-28-2006, 05:23 PM
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I'm really dissapointed in C/D after this. Its quite the double standard. Less then a year ago the M5 wins a comparison test, and would have done so without question had it not been for the SMG. Now, BMW has taken out supposedly the only thing keeping the M5 from perfection in the minds of the C/D editors, and what happans? It loses on the basis of something that has NOTHING to do with quarter mile times, braking distances, track times, driving feel, or the overall joie de drive: the goddamn iDrive (that they've already pointed out to those who care about such things that they don't like it) I am thouroughly impressed with the output of the E63's engine, but thats all Mercedes can do is make hugely powerful V8s. I love the fact that the S6 has a Lambo engine in an understated body with all-wheel-drive, but I'm totally let down by the performance. Neither of these cars can touch the M5's perfect balance of luxary and comfort, and stunning track performance. But more importantly in my mind, neither of these cars has the passion or excitement of the M5. They're both quiet, comfortable rocket sleds with no emotion. I am merely a huge car enthusiast with no qualifications or expertise, and no more credibility any average Joe, so something this plain SHOULD be immediately apparent to an experienced automotive journalist. Someone at C/D forgot what makes cars enjoyable in the first place: the excitement and character that puts a smile on your face, not raw numbers and uncomprimising speed.
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  #37  
Old 12-28-2006, 05:38 PM
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Originally Posted by chuck92103 View Post
What tiny X5 button?
The tiny botton on the right side next to the Navi-Screen (looks like the volume-button) where you turn and push for selection (basically the same as iDrive, just smaller.. ).
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  #38  
Old 12-28-2006, 05:49 PM
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Originally Posted by 760Lifan View Post
The tiny botton on the right side next to the Navi-Screen (looks like the volume-button) where you turn and push for selection (basically the same as iDrive, just smaller.. ).
Oh ok, I think a lot of car companies have that. I have seen it on the Nissans as well.
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  #39  
Old 12-28-2006, 07:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Sully5486 View Post
I'm really dissapointed in C/D after this. Its quite the double standard. Less then a year ago the M5 wins a comparison test, and would have done so without question had it not been for the SMG. Now, BMW has taken out supposedly the only thing keeping the M5 from perfection in the minds of the C/D editors, and what happans? It loses on the basis of something that has NOTHING to do with quarter mile times, braking distances, track times, driving feel, or the overall joie de drive: the goddamn iDrive (that they've already pointed out to those who care about such things that they don't like it) I am thouroughly impressed with the output of the E63's engine, but thats all Mercedes can do is make hugely powerful V8s. I love the fact that the S6 has a Lambo engine in an understated body with all-wheel-drive, but I'm totally let down by the performance. Neither of these cars can touch the M5's perfect balance of luxary and comfort, and stunning track performance. But more importantly in my mind, neither of these cars has the passion or excitement of the M5. They're both quiet, comfortable rocket sleds with no emotion. I am merely a huge car enthusiast with no qualifications or expertise, and no more credibility any average Joe, so something this plain SHOULD be immediately apparent to an experienced automotive journalist. Someone at C/D forgot what makes cars enjoyable in the first place: the excitement and character that puts a smile on your face, not raw numbers and uncomprimising speed.

Well do something about it. Quite buying that s**t rag like I did. I grew up and had to shed that crap.

Move on to some hard tech mags, Hot Rod and Popular Hot Rodding. Sounds silly but you will learn more about real motors and what works and why in 6 months than in 10 years of prissy CD articles.

Get real, grow up and learn why the old school, push rod, V8 motors are putting out 400 to 600 of the real thing, street driveable hp, and doing it naturally aspirated (NA) w/o blowers/turbos.
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  #40  
Old 12-28-2006, 11:56 PM
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Originally Posted by franka View Post
Well do something about it. Quite buying that s**t rag like I did. I grew up and had to shed that crap.

Move on to some hard tech mags, Hot Rod and Popular Hot Rodding. Sounds silly but you will learn more about real motors and what works and why in 6 months than in 10 years of prissy CD articles.

Get real, grow up and learn why the old school, push rod, V8 motors are putting out 400 to 600 of the real thing, street driveable hp, and doing it naturally aspirated (NA) w/o blowers/turbos.
oh yeah i def quit buying that **** i only read euro mags now they actually care about how fun a car is on a track or on a twisty mountain road, not its straight-line acceleration or how it is in commuter traffic
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  #41  
Old 12-29-2006, 10:17 PM
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Originally Posted by JST View Post
If you read the article, you'll see that their primary complaint is the lack of a DSC kill switch, because of the impact that the stability control system has on performance. In other words, it is their performance perspective that causes them to rank the M5 lower. They simply found the S6 and E63 more engaging drives.

The E60 M5 that EVO tested was SMG, correct? SMG cars are not hobbled with an always-on DSC system.

The article does take a swipe at iDrive, but it is hardly the focus of the piece.
The other two cars in the comparison do not have a DSC-type kill switch. The Audi S6 always as AWD and if that's what they equate to an engaging drive (because needless weight is always equal to performance), then again, the writers at C/D are completely off-base. The Merc E63 has no kill switch but the intoxication of mindless power on tap again must equate to performance since there's no replacement for displacement; that's why American cars have always held the distinction of being world class performance autos

C/D are off base.
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  #42  
Old 12-30-2006, 06:41 AM
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I agree with Franka real world magazines, like Grassroots Motorsports have real beneficial mods, tire testing, dyno numbers and DIY's than anyother mag, but they are so random in there car selection about which cars they will feature each month
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  #43  
Old 12-30-2006, 07:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Sully5486 View Post
It loses on the basis of something that has NOTHING to do with quarter mile times, braking distances, track times, driving feel, or the overall joie de drive: the goddamn iDrive

I thought it lost because on the 6MT you can't disable DSC.


What a bonehead decision that was.
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  #44  
Old 12-30-2006, 08:06 AM
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Originally Posted by wheel-man View Post
The other two cars in the comparison do not have a DSC-type kill switch. The Audi S6 always as AWD and if that's what they equate to an engaging drive (because needless weight is always equal to performance), then again, the writers at C/D are completely off-base. The Merc E63 has no kill switch but the intoxication of mindless power on tap again must equate to performance since there's no replacement for displacement; that's why American cars have always held the distinction of being world class performance autos

C/D are off base.
Since when? I can say with certainty that the E55 does. And that MB's traction control is a hell of a lot less invasive in the first place.
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  #45  
Old 12-30-2006, 08:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Sully5486 View Post
I'm really dissapointed in C/D after this. Its quite the double standard. Less then a year ago the M5 wins a comparison test, and would have done so without question had it not been for the SMG. Now, BMW has taken out supposedly the only thing keeping the M5 from perfection in the minds of the C/D editors, and what happans? It loses on the basis of something that has NOTHING to do with quarter mile times, braking distances, track times, driving feel, or the overall joie de drive: the goddamn iDrive (that they've already pointed out to those who care about such things that they don't like it) I am thouroughly impressed with the output of the E63's engine, but thats all Mercedes can do is make hugely powerful V8s. I love the fact that the S6 has a Lambo engine in an understated body with all-wheel-drive, but I'm totally let down by the performance. Neither of these cars can touch the M5's perfect balance of luxary and comfort, and stunning track performance. But more importantly in my mind, neither of these cars has the passion or excitement of the M5. They're both quiet, comfortable rocket sleds with no emotion. I am merely a huge car enthusiast with no qualifications or expertise, and no more credibility any average Joe, so something this plain SHOULD be immediately apparent to an experienced automotive journalist. Someone at C/D forgot what makes cars enjoyable in the first place: the excitement and character that puts a smile on your face, not raw numbers and uncomprimising speed.
You (and some others on this thread) haven't actually read the article, have you? The M5 did not lose this test because of iDrive, which was barely mentioned and not nearly as negatively as other reviews. The E63 was the correct winner. Whether the M5 or S6 should have taken second is where we should be directing any complaints.
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  #46  
Old 12-30-2006, 09:03 AM
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Originally Posted by swajames View Post
You (and some others on this thread) haven't actually read the article, have you? The M5 did not lose this test because of iDrive, which was barely mentioned and not nearly as negatively as other reviews. The E63 was the correct winner. Whether the M5 or S6 should have taken second is where we should be directing any complaints.
A thread from mbworld.org:

http://www.mbworld.org/forums/showth...13#post1909713

In this test, Audi S6 beats the M5 AND E63 (according to Motor Trend), so once again, it seems to be a matter of taste which car is considered "best"...

All those reviews in magazines seem to be worthless since they all have a different winner. What a waste of money..

Last edited by 760Lifan; 12-30-2006 at 09:05 AM.
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  #47  
Old 12-30-2006, 01:48 PM
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Originally Posted by 760Lifan View Post
A thread from mbworld.org:

http://www.mbworld.org/forums/showth...13#post1909713

In this test, Audi S6 beats the M5 AND E63 (according to Motor Trend), so once again, it seems to be a matter of taste which car is considered "best"...

All those reviews in magazines seem to be worthless since they all have a different winner. What a waste of money..
It comes down to ones desires. All are fine automobiles. However, park an M6 convertible on the street next to an S6 and tell me which one draws more attention.
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  #48  
Old 12-30-2006, 03:41 PM
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It comes down to ones desires. All are fine automobiles. However, park an M6 convertible on the street next to an S6 and tell me which one draws more attention.
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  #49  
Old 12-31-2006, 09:18 AM
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Originally Posted by swajames View Post
You (and some others on this thread) haven't actually read the article, have you? The M5 did not lose this test because of iDrive, which was barely mentioned and not nearly as negatively as other reviews. The E63 was the correct winner. Whether the M5 or S6 should have taken second is where we should be directing any complaints.
Thank you James, my thoughts exactly. You guys really need to read the article before you start bashing on C&D. They basically relegated the M5 to last place status from a purely performance perspective, since this manual version is a complete letdown when compared with the SMG version. Its intrusive DSC significantly affected every performance measurement (0-60, 1/4 mile, lane change, skidpad, etc.) and basically killed any sort of enjoyment that one could get from taking this car to a racetrack. What a disappointment.
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  #50  
Old 01-03-2007, 06:38 AM
Sully5486 Sully5486 is offline
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Originally Posted by swajames View Post
You (and some others on this thread) haven't actually read the article, have you? The M5 did not lose this test because of iDrive, which was barely mentioned and not nearly as negatively as other reviews. The E63 was the correct winner. Whether the M5 or S6 should have taken second is where we should be directing any complaints.
aight no need to go accusing me of not reading the article because i had a certain viewpoint - the whole point of that rant was the fact that in my opinion the M5 should have been the hands-down winner. like i said, its the most passionate car in the test, and its the supersedan that delivers the best driving experience in my opinion. believe me i'm not bashing the audi or the merc in anyway i think they're fantastic cars....but for me the difference between those two and the M5 is that i look at the S6 or the E63 and think "wow nice car," but the M5 is the one that gets my heart racing.....btw i definately wouldn't go running my mouth off about cars and i'm not too proud to accept other people's opinions so don't take this personally haha
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