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Go Back   Bimmerfest - BMW Forums > BMW Model Discussions > Z Series > E36/7 Z3 (1996-2002)

E36/7 Z3 (1996-2002)
E36/7 Z3 Roadster, Z3 coupe, Z3 M Roadster and Z3 M Coupe talk with our gurus here.

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  #1  
Old 12-31-2002, 05:48 PM
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Ron Stygar Ron Stygar is offline
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Lets try to hands free phone the coupe

Now that he has the Traffic Pro, Jim E. wants to intergrate a hands free phone system in his M3 making use of the HK TP phone input and mute.
Since I've been looking to purchase a cell phone, it is a good time to do the coupe as well.
For an interesting article that John F. sent me, connect to:
http://denbeste.nu/cd_log_entries/2002/10/GSM3G.shtml

We are going with the Motorola T720 phone and will be modifying their hands free kit so that the microphone will be using a BMW mounting and the sound along with mute will be via the HK Traffic Pro.
http://www.discountcell.com/cellular/motorola/94517.asp

Jim ordered one kit which he is sending me. No sense buying two if for some reason we can't get it to work.
I picked up my phone Friday with Verizon as the service provider.
Being confident, I decided to cut my headliner and mount the BMW microphone holder. I have the microphone cover on order. The holder is held in place using a sheetmetal screw in an existing hole. Holds the headliner in place better than the piece of velcro there.
We will use the microphone that comes with the hands free kit if we can make it fit the BMW microphone holder. If not, we will try the BMW E36 or E46 microphone.
I couldn't find any instructions in related BMW kits that showed how to install the BMW microphone holder in my coupe. You have to wing it. The microphone holder also has an opening for the sunroof switch which you can plug if you do not have a sunroof. The sunroof switch location moves forward with the microphone holder. 180 out of what it initially looks like it should be. Big mistake if you try to mount the microphone holder so the sunroof switch stays where it is stock. More to come.




Last edited by Ron Stygar; 12-31-2002 at 05:52 PM.
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Old 12-31-2002, 11:21 PM
TxnBluDvl TxnBluDvl is offline
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Point of reference:

I've used DiscountCell and they have good customer service and great prices. Don't be put off by their website not being the prettiest. I heartily recommend them if you need to buy accessories. Good choice.
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Old 01-01-2003, 04:31 PM
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If you end up using a E36 or E46 3-wire mic, I'd be interested in finding out what needs to be done to make it work. All the diagrams seem to indicate the 3rd contact is a ground (shield vs signal? I dunno) but I could never get it to work with the in-car Motorola handsfree for the L2000/7x8x series phones so I ended up using the kit's mic instead.

When I retired my L708 for a v60g, I put the v60c/t/g/i kit in its place which works fantastic.
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  #4  
Old 01-01-2003, 05:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Kaz

When I retired my L708 for a v60g, I put the v60c/t/g/i kit in its place which works fantastic.
The T720 kit is basically the same as the V60 kit with a different holder.
Does the V60 kit support mute and voice dialing without having to touch the phone each time?
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  #5  
Old 01-01-2003, 05:41 PM
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Kaz Kaz is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by Ron Stygar
The T720 kit is basically the same as the V60 kit with a different holder.
Does the V60 kit support mute and voice dialing without having to touch the phone each time?
I've never used any voice functions on my phones so I can't answer that.
As for not touching the phone, I guess I'm not totally sure what you mean. It'd be rather hard to have the phone perform any functions without touching it unless you somehow route some controls to the steering wheel or something.

If you mean an external mute, like to mute the stereo when a call comes in, yes, it does have it, though I don't use it. What it no longer has that older Motorola kits had are the external relay trigger and what I think was an external ringer trigger.

Now, if its the same 'brain' as the v60, there have been several versions of it, as there have supposedly been different problems with it. Hopefully its all worked out and the T720 ones ship with the latest. I have an original A-rev and haven't had any problems, though.

One last thing. The new brains don't have the mounting strips molded on the ends but have through-holes on the chassis itself in case you were planning on using it with the OEM BMW bracket that's made for the old-style brains or something.
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  #6  
Old 01-01-2003, 11:25 PM
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Ron Stygar Ron Stygar is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by Kaz
I've never used any voice functions on my phones so I can't answer that.
As for not touching the phone, I guess I'm not totally sure what you mean. It'd be rather hard to have the phone perform any functions without touching it unless you somehow route some controls to the steering wheel or something.

If you mean an external mute, like to mute the stereo when a call comes in, yes, it does have it, though I don't use it. What it no longer has that older Motorola kits had are the external relay trigger and what I think was an external ringer trigger.

Now, if its the same 'brain' as the v60, there have been several versions of it, as there have supposedly been different problems with it. Hopefully its all worked out and the T720 ones ship with the latest. I have an original A-rev and haven't had any problems, though.

One last thing. The new brains don't have the mounting strips molded on the ends but have through-holes on the chassis itself in case you were planning on using it with the OEM BMW bracket that's made for the old-style brains or something.
Just trying to figure out what hands free means. The hands free kit supposedly answers the phone without touching it. Not sure how it hangs it up. It supposedly supports radio mute if the phone does without touching it too.
The Z3 supports nothing other then the 8 pin phone plug which gives you access to the power and mute line.
Some cars have a line that looks like it might be an antenna one in the center console area. This line doesn't show up being in the C pillar area on my car. Maybe it's coiled up just below to connect to the M coupe phone antenna mentioned below.
The Z3 M coupe offers a phone antenna/amp but doesn't mention if it is dual band or not. Since it replaces the stock radio antenna/amp, I assume that the phone one does the radio too.
Time will tell.

Last edited by Ron Stygar; 01-10-2003 at 12:06 AM.
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  #7  
Old 01-01-2003, 11:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Ron Stygar
Just trying to figure out what hand free means. The hands free kit supposedly answers the phone without touching it. Not sure how it hangs it up. It supposedly supports radio mute if the phone does without touching it too.
[...]
Ah. Well, my phone has a few in-car options:
Auto Answer (pretty obvious)
Auto Handsfree (can set this so clipping the phone in does NOT set it to handsfree mode)
Power Off Delay (shuts phone completely off if left in carkit n time after car is shut off)
Charger Time (same but for batt charging function only)

YMMV on a T720

I have my autoanswer off (the phone itself is set to answer when flipped open (if closed) or when any key is pressed (if open)) and autohandsfree on. One of the things the latter mode does is automatically take it out of vibe and put it on ring if the phone was on vibe, and put it back when unclipped.

I don't use the radio mute but if its hooked up (on E46s, at least) the radio will display 'mute' or 'phone' or something when the phone starts ringing.

The phone will hang itself up like normal when the other party hangs up so its 'automatic' in that sense.

The voicedial would require you to push the voicedial button on the right, after which it will listen for the name to dial. In the car, this works with the phone open or closed. Another feature I don't use mostly because I usually take but not make calls in the car.

US E46s are at least partially prewired for an antenna, and my wagon came with a dualband so I'm using it. The old kit would cut the phone's built-in antenna off, but the v60 one doesn't appear to, though I'm not positive about that. If you find that the car is prewired at all for an antenna, it uses the same coax connector as the Motorola kits so you won't need any adapters.
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  #8  
Old 01-02-2003, 03:35 AM
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Ron Stygar Ron Stygar is offline
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The voicedial would require you to push the voicedial button on the right, after which it will listen for the name to dial. In the car, this works with the phone open or closed.
>>>OK. I thought so but was hoping otherwise.
US E46s are at least partially prewired for an antenna, and my wagon came with a dualband so I'm using it. The old kit would cut the phone's built-in antenna off, but the v60 one doesn't appear to, though I'm not positive about that. If you find that the car is prewired at all for an antenna, it uses the same coax connector as the Motorola kits so you won't need any adapters.
>>>Good job. Thanks for the info explaining things. Still have a way to go for the Z3-M.
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  #9  
Old 01-11-2003, 08:47 PM
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Ron Stygar Ron Stygar is offline
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If you end up using a E36 or E46 3-wire mic, I'd be interested in finding out what needs to be done to make it work. All the diagrams seem to indicate the 3rd contact is a ground (shield vs signal? I dunno) but I could never get it to work with the in-car Motorola handsfree for the L2000/7x8x series phones so I ended up using the kit's mic instead.
>>>OK.
When I retired my L708 for a v60g, I put the v60c/t/g/i kit in its place which works fantastic.
>>>With the BMW mic or the kit mic?
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  #10  
Old 01-11-2003, 11:14 PM
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Ron Stygar Ron Stygar is offline
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Update

Where we are at.
Microphone holder installed awaiting microphone cover.
My '01 M coupe comes with the telephone antenna/amplifier with the cable terminated in the console area.
Connect to:
http://bimmerfest.com/forums/showthr...threadid=12072
There is also an eight pin female connector in the console area for power hot at all times and power hot in run and start along with ground and radio mute access.
Major problem for me was where to mount the phone holder. I wanted the installation to look factory. Also wanted it to look like there was no integrated phone in the car.
I chose the console cup holder storage compartment. This compartment is covered by the LeatherZ armrest. Problem with it in the storage compartment you can't access the side buttons etc. I decided to raise it up to allow access by cutting out the bottom of the LeatherZ armrest to accommodate the additional height. Will add a recessed plate to the armrest so that it looks right, opened.

You need to make a base in the storage compartment to raise the phone roughly two inches.
I started out making it from wood. Switched to using dental TAK.


I initially purchased ($60 per bottle) this product designing my strut brace. In 180 degree water it gets together and becomes soft. Unlike putty it gets hard. Want to try again, put it back in water or heat it some other way. You can drill and tap it etc. I used this to provide a mount for the OBC I added to my coupe.


Well, after six hours, I get it all done. Went to clean up the armrest holder using alcohol and grabbed the lacquer thinner by mistake. Oh well.
Will order a new one Monday. For the better, since it will let me get rid of the flashlight and cup holder LED mods which are no longer necessary.
Also the mold that I made needs another quarter inch added to the back. If not, the antenna tip just encroaches the back cup holder.
I removed the mold.

May use it as a model to make one out of black Delrin depending how much the machining is.
The Delrin is $50.00 per foot but you can purchase just four inches for this project. Just found this out. I thought that the minimum buy was one foot. I have Delrin in my garage based on this screw up.
I wired up the handsfree kit on the passenger seat and it appears to work well calling myself with a portable phone. If there are any feedback problems the HK Traffic Pro lets you adjust the phone sound separately just like it does for the CD, radio and NAV. So you can adjust the fader and balance controls to use whatever speakers you want.
More to come.
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  #11  
Old 01-14-2003, 01:40 AM
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Ron Stygar Ron Stygar is offline
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Received the BMW microphone cover today.

I modified the Motorola kit microphone flat mount to mount using the same screw that holds the BMW microphone/sunroof switch holder assembly.
To do this you have to drill another hole in the Motorola kit microphone flat mount about 1/4 inch back of the existing hole. You have to make this hole the same size as the BMW microphone/sunroof switch holder assembly mounting hole.

The Motorola kit microphone will rotate on the mounting hole and will also adjust up and down. Adjusting it to angle down and face the driver is probably not necessary.
In use, speaking forward it picks up a very, very low whisper. Not sure how it does that off direction.
So there is no reason to use the BMW microphone. Still curious if the BMW one would work with the Motorola hands free kit.

Seeing if the kit microphone would work with the BMW holder, was the last step in the challenge to integrate a cell phone in my '01 M coupe.
I have a new armrest and mating 8 pin phone connector coming Wednesday. Just a matter of mounting and connecting things now.
Not sure/familar how the phone set up works in the E46, E39 etc. cars.
The custom set up in my Z3, making use of the HK Traffic Pro, is pretty neat in my opinion.
If you place the Motorola T720 phone in the Motorola hands free kit cradle in the ON mode it goes to sleep with the ignition off.
If you turn on the ignition, it wakes up.
Listening to a CD or radio, an incoming call mutes the CD or radio and announces/rings through the car speakers.
"Phone" appears in the HK Traffic Pro display.

You speak through the added microphone and the response comes through the car speakers. When the caller hangs up,
the HK TP display returns to CD or radio display.
For an outgoing call, you press the voice dial button,
and the HK TP display goes to "Phone." Speak the name and it dials the number. Person answering comes through the car speakers. You answer via the added kit microphone. When the caller hangs up, the HK TP display returns to CD or radio display.
If in navigation mode, the "Phone" appears in the display. When a navigation response comes in, it is shared with the phone response as one option. A couple of other options exist which let you share at different levels or mute.
As mentioned, I have the BMWNA Traffic Pro. My friend Jim has the HK Traffic Pro.
Mine will control the BMW or Becker changer.
His will only control the Becker changer.
My phone input pins 13 & 14 went to the CD changer. I have come up with no reason why. There is no measured resistance or signal there. I cut these lines and used them for my phone input.
His phone input connector pins 13 & 14 have no pins in it.
HK states the phone input feature, yet there are no pins in the connector to accommodate it. There is no way to get the pins either.
Does that make sense? It doesn't to me.
I assume that everything is a secret, or that the accessible people just don't know.
I have no idea why Becker NA/AG does this. You would think that they would want to make it easy for you to enjoy their product.
That is not the case.
More to come.

Last edited by Ron Stygar; 01-14-2003 at 12:22 PM.
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  #12  
Old 01-14-2003, 05:58 AM
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bob lindquist bob lindquist is offline
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Moon Roof Switch Lighting

I remember some talk about the light in this switch. Mine doesn't light. Whats it take to light it up?
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  #13  
Old 01-14-2003, 05:19 PM
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Ron Stygar Ron Stygar is offline
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Re: Moon Roof Switch Lighting

Quote:
Originally posted by bob lindquist
I remember some talk about the light in this switch. Mine doesn't light. Whats it take to light it up?
You can revesre the LED in the switch.
You can reverse the wiring at connector X19018 in the passenger side footwell area. This wil lreverse the open close function though.
I reversed the power and revese wiring in the switch.
The tool shown in the following pic is a pin removal tool. Anyone contemplating electrical mods should have one.








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Old 01-14-2003, 05:42 PM
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bob lindquist bob lindquist is offline
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Wiring

Brown looks like the power. Reverse ? not sure.

So its a switch of the brown and (which?) in the switch to get the LED?

(I couldn't see the LED in the diagram)

The function will remain correct by this method or will it reverse?
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Dinan suspension, M rotors /Axxis pads
Eurosport Cam Kit 1, touch lane change
Zaino polish, Beach Sand
Garys mirror adapter, S54 Oil Cooler
seat tilt coupling nuts, spare tire

"life's to short to drink cheap beer"


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Old 01-14-2003, 05:56 PM
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Ron Stygar Ron Stygar is offline
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Re: Wiring

Quote:
Originally posted by bob lindquist
Brown looks like the power. Reverse ? not sure.

So its a switch of the brown and (which?) in the switch to get the LED?

(I couldn't see the LED in the diagram)

The function will remain correct by this method or will it reverse?
X19018 pin two is power (VI/GE) See how it switches to brown. Brown is normally ground in BMW, not power. X19018 pin one is ground (BR). See how it switches to red. Red is normally hot at all times not ground in BMW's. If you reverse the pins at connector X19018 it will light the switch but the functions will be backwards. You will also need the tool to do this.
The LED is inside the switch across the power lines. If the diagram doesn't make sense you probably should leave it alone.

Last edited by Ron Stygar; 01-14-2003 at 06:34 PM.
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  #16  
Old 01-14-2003, 06:28 PM
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bob lindquist bob lindquist is offline
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wiring

I think I understand the print. swapping Brown and Red does it.

Thanks
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  #17  
Old 01-21-2003, 08:31 PM
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Ron Stygar Ron Stygar is offline
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That's it


Cutting the hole in the bottom of the LeatherZ armrest didn't seem to weaken it at all.







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  #18  
Old 01-21-2003, 09:21 PM
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very nice ron as always
max
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  #19  
Old 04-19-2003, 08:12 AM
rexconde rexconde is offline
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Wiring Harness

I'm trying to install the same thing into my 99m3. It says it is prewired for a Telephone however I havent had too much as far as help from the service department around here.

You spoke of an 8 pin connector for the telephone... Do you have a part number for this and would you happen to know if BMW has such a cable for the E36? I'm assuming that it is this connector that does the connection for the speaker phone as well as the microphone?

Lastly ... curious, where did you install the phone module of the car kit??
Robert
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Old 04-19-2003, 08:14 AM
rexconde rexconde is offline
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Oh yeah .. where did you hook the microphone up to? the Phone kit, the phone, or some proprietary Car wire?

re
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  #21  
Old 04-19-2003, 11:40 AM
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Ron Stygar Ron Stygar is offline
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Re: Wiring Harness

Quote:
Originally posted by rexconde

You spoke of an 8 pin connector for the telephone... Do you have a part number for this and would you happen to know if BMW has such a cable for the E36? I'm assuming that it is this connector that does the connection for the speaker phone as well as the microphone?

Lastly ... curious, where did you install the phone module of the car kit??
Robert
As mentioned above the eight pin connector provoides power and access to the radio mute line. This is in your car. The mating connector is 61 13 1 378 116.


I installed the phone kit module under the dash on the drivers side.
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Old 04-19-2003, 11:42 AM
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Ron Stygar Ron Stygar is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by rexconde
Oh yeah .. where did you hook the microphone up to? the Phone kit, the phone, or some proprietary Car wire?
re
Look at the instructions that come with the phone kit. It shows how things get hooked up.
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  #23  
Old 04-19-2003, 11:48 AM
rexconde rexconde is offline
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Well,

I've hooked up these kits before, it just didnt look like you used the Main box for the Telephone. The big connecting box for that connects everything. Thats why I was curious if there was such a connecting box in the Car already and you had used that . . .
Thanks
RE
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  #24  
Old 04-19-2003, 11:49 AM
rexconde rexconde is offline
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Sorry bout the last post didnt see your last line under the pic
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  #25  
Old 04-21-2003, 11:55 AM
rexconde rexconde is offline
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OK Heres another couple questions for you

Have you ever installed two phone kits in one car? I have one work and one personal phone and I want kits for each of them.

I suppose I could place a simple switch to change between the two systems? The switch could be a manual throw, but if I'm going to do this I have to do it right. . .

Would you know if the Radio Mute wire is it a voltage throw or simple closure loop? I was planning to use a couple relays to accomplish the automated switching, but I guess I dont know if there will be enough power to throw the relays and trigger the radio mute button, thus going with an extra power supply.

You said above that 13 and 14 were the Phone inputs for the Phone ... shouldnt there be four wires -/+ for right and left? Or is there a common ground? Are you splitting the mono signal from the j-box to each of the speaker inputs. Or is 13 and 14 a dedicated input for the phone and the internal system does it for you?

NB, I have the T720 kit coming in a week or so, and I just recieved my Motorola Bluetooth Car kit today. . .

I'm working on getting the housing and the pins today to connecto to the X400.
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