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E85 / E86 Z4 (2003-2008)
E85 Z4 Roadster, E86 Z4 Coupe, E85 Z4 M Roadster, and E86 Z4 M Coupe talk with our BMW gurus here.

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  #1551  
Old 12-04-2009, 09:02 AM
blau335 blau335 is offline
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So basically every person on the forum with the supercharger has the same problem....
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  #1552  
Old 12-04-2009, 04:33 PM
Cube Cube is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Palantirion View Post
-I still have the problem, but it only happens at the track. When mine happens it also throws the brake booster and RAM error codes.
Not sounds good ...
Mine happens more frequently because 1 or 2 days every week I drive the car on a fast highway, so I can push down
Suggestions ? I was thinking to go in Norway, but is not so close to me


Quote:
Originally Posted by blau335 View Post
So basically every person on the forum with the supercharger has the same problem....
Other Z4M with same problem? same ESS kit ?
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  #1553  
Old 12-04-2009, 07:17 PM
blau335 blau335 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cube View Post
Not sounds good ...
Mine happens more frequently because 1 or 2 days every week I drive the car on a fast highway, so I can push down
Suggestions ? I was thinking to go in Norway, but is not so close to me




Other Z4M with same problem? same ESS kit ?
Me you and plantarion.
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  #1554  
Old 12-05-2009, 07:17 AM
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ROM3N ROM3N is offline
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That is odd that it seems to be random. Maybe we will attend one of Earls track events so we can log some data and resolve the issue.
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  #1555  
Old 12-05-2009, 08:37 AM
Cube Cube is offline
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Originally Posted by ROM3N View Post
That is odd that it seems to be random. Maybe we will attend one of Earls track events so we can log some data and resolve the issue.
Exactly.
Anyway, next week the car ll go in bmw to check wheel speed sensors, angle steering sensor and abs/dsc system.
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  #1556  
Old 12-05-2009, 03:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Cube View Post
Exactly.
Anyway, next week the car ll go in bmw to check wheel speed sensors, angle steering sensor and abs/dsc system.
Luca are you getting the same codes each time after you clear them ?
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  #1557  
Old 12-06-2009, 05:28 AM
Cube Cube is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ROM3N View Post
Luca are you getting the same codes each time after you clear them ?
When I get one or more limps, yes.
Instead, when the engine runs well, no codes.
Next sunday I ll be at Imola Raceway, very long straight line...

Last june the car was damn fast, shift to 6th at box exit, about 275 kmh before braking. No limps.

Instead 1st november, at Imola again, the day was a full PITA, limp in straight at every lap...

Nothing is changed but the air temperature: in june was about 30 C , 1st nov was 18 C, today is 5 C.

My humble opinion is that is air temperature related.

Let me do a test...

see later
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Z4M E86 my 2007 "The Lifting Machine", 320d E91 my 2010 , Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX "il Mostro" my 1992.

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  #1558  
Old 12-06-2009, 10:55 AM
Cube Cube is offline
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Back!
just to try, I inserted a plastic plate to restrict the fresh air duct (see the pic)

I drove my straight 2 miles about 10 times:
first 2 ones, with dsc, on still lipm mode
after that, turned off dsc, and magically... no limps
Reached 275 kmh max speed, used 4th at redline, 5th at redline too, 6th at 275 and pulled up the foot...

As soon as possible I ll drill the exhaust to install a Motec PLM (i use it on my mitsu), now i think is mandatory understand what happens in the engine.
My opinion is that with low air temperature, the air is too rich of oxigen so the carburation become too lean at upper revs.

Note:
1) air temperature 8 C
2) Water temp between 87 and 93 C
3) Oil temp about 85/90 C stable


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Z4M E86 my 2007 "The Lifting Machine", 320d E91 my 2010 , Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX "il Mostro" my 1992.

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  #1559  
Old 12-06-2009, 07:45 PM
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Ron Stygar Ron Stygar is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Palantirion View Post
-I still have the problem, but it only happens at the track. When mine happens it also throws the brake booster.
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  #1560  
Old 12-07-2009, 01:06 AM
Cube Cube is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Stygar View Post

Can you please let me know which one is the suction jet pump ?

ty



from http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts...g=25&lang=enUS
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  #1561  
Old 12-07-2009, 03:02 AM
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Per the realoem site it's #6- the line and pump assembly.
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  #1562  
Old 12-09-2009, 11:40 AM
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Palantirion Palantirion is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Stygar View Post
-Thanks for posting that Ron. However when I leak-checked my car at Bullet no smoke came from those connections

On 11-22-09 I took the car to Cal Speedway (Auto Club Speedway) again. I paid close attention to the limp mode throughout the day. Here are four things I think might be significant:
1) When the car was not overly hot (oil below 260F) the limp mode would NOT happen when running the engine to redline at WOT in a straight line. But it would consistently go into limp more at the end of the NASCAR banking (180 degree turn at 130mph+ on 17deg banking), or just after the car straightened out and I lifted off the gas before braking. It would go into limp mode both in 4th gear at higher RPM or 5th gear at lower RPM, but in 4th gear it seemed to go into limp mode slightly earlier in the turn.

2) Later in each session the car would get hotter (oil over 260F) and then it would sometimes go into limp mode on the back straight, either when still WOT in 4th gear or just after lifting before braking.

3) There are a series of turns before entering the front straight that my car I take in 3rd gear with moderate throttle and high RPM. As I exit the last turn onto the straight and transition to WOT the car would go into limp mode every time when the oil was hot - only sometimes when the oil was not as hot.

4) Over the past year my Z4's DME has been reprogrammed several times. Sometimes when I get a new program the car "pants" when I go off throttle (like an old helicopter), and with other programs the off-throttle sound is a smooth hiss. This last time the hiss was smooth UNTIL the track day on 11-22. During that day the off-throttle sound changed to the panting chop-chop-chop sound and has stayed that way since. My understanding is the the panting sound happens when the throttle bodies are not quite in sync with the pressure from the boosted intake charge. Is this correct?

Here are all the fault codes that seem to come up every time I go to the track:

Outside temperature sensor, fault currently not present, short circuit to negative
93B2 safety battery terminal, fault status = present, fault type = resistance too high, occurrences = 32 (won't clear)
unidentified fault code 0000 (occurs 3 times)
2F65 brake booster, system check
unidentified fault code 2A00 (occurs 3 times)

These are all the codes from an October track day, which threw the most codes during one event:
Outside temperature sensor, fault currently not present, short circuit to negative
93B2 safety battery terminal, fault status = present, fault type = resistance too high, occurrences = 32 (won't clear)
transport mode active, fault currently not present, fault frequency = 1
No CAN identification, fault currently not present, open circuit
unidentified fault code A468, E5C7 K-CAN communication fault, fault currently not present, open circuit
5A5B Dtc button
5DF7 system voltage too high
5E14 no message, engine management (316 or 329)
5DF4 battery voltage too low; open circuit
5E19 engine management, interface
2D09 throttle valve
2F45 interface ews-dme
unidentified fault code 0000 (occurs 3 times)
2F65 brake booster, system check
unidentified fault code 2A00 (occurs 3 times)
safety and gateway (SGM)/ advance crash safety module (ACSM)
internal CD drive-high temperature, fault currently not present, fault frequency = 10
instrument cluster, no working range
extended faultcode information for airbag warning lamp, fault is currently present
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  #1563  
Old 12-18-2009, 05:55 PM
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Ron Stygar Ron Stygar is offline
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Location: CT
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 11,143
Mein Auto: Z4 M Coupe 6LL93033
Quote:
Originally Posted by Palantirion View Post
-Thanks for posting that Ron. However when I leak-checked my car at Bullet no smoke came from those connections

On 11-22-09 I took the car to Cal Speedway (Auto Club Speedway) again. I paid close attention to the limp mode throughout the day. Here are four things I think might be significant:
1) When the car was not overly hot (oil below 260F) the limp mode would NOT happen when running the engine to redline at WOT in a straight line. But it would consistently go into limp more at the end of the NASCAR banking (180 degree turn at 130mph+ on 17deg banking), or just after the car straightened out and I lifted off the gas before braking. It would go into limp mode both in 4th gear at higher RPM or 5th gear at lower RPM, but in 4th gear it seemed to go into limp mode slightly earlier in the turn.

2) Later in each session the car would get hotter (oil over 260F) and then it would sometimes go into limp mode on the back straight, either when still WOT in 4th gear or just after lifting before braking.

3) There are a series of turns before entering the front straight that my car I take in 3rd gear with moderate throttle and high RPM. As I exit the last turn onto the straight and transition to WOT the car would go into limp mode every time when the oil was hot - only sometimes when the oil was not as hot.

4) Over the past year my Z4's DME has been reprogrammed several times. Sometimes when I get a new program the car "pants" when I go off throttle (like an old helicopter), and with other programs the off-throttle sound is a smooth hiss. This last time the hiss was smooth UNTIL the track day on 11-22. During that day the off-throttle sound changed to the panting chop-chop-chop sound and has stayed that way since. My understanding is the the panting sound happens when the throttle bodies are not quite in sync with the pressure from the boosted intake charge. Is this correct?

Here are all the fault codes that seem to come up every time I go to the track:

Outside temperature sensor, fault currently not present, short circuit to negative
93B2 safety battery terminal, fault status = present, fault type = resistance too high, occurrences = 32 (won't clear)
unidentified fault code 0000 (occurs 3 times)
2F65 brake booster, system check
unidentified fault code 2A00 (occurs 3 times)

These are all the codes from an October track day, which threw the most codes during one event:
Outside temperature sensor, fault currently not present, short circuit to negative
93B2 safety battery terminal, fault status = present, fault type = resistance too high, occurrences = 32 (won't clear)
transport mode active, fault currently not present, fault frequency = 1
No CAN identification, fault currently not present, open circuit
unidentified fault code A468, E5C7 K-CAN communication fault, fault currently not present, open circuit
5A5B Dtc button
5DF7 system voltage too high
5E14 no message, engine management (316 or 329)
5DF4 battery voltage too low; open circuit
5E19 engine management, interface
2D09 throttle valve
2F45 interface ews-dme
unidentified fault code 0000 (occurs 3 times)
2F65 brake booster, system check
unidentified fault code 2A00 (occurs 3 times)
safety and gateway (SGM)/ advance crash safety module (ACSM)
internal CD drive-high temperature, fault currently not present, fault frequency = 10
instrument cluster, no working range
extended faultcode information for airbag warning lamp, fault is currently present


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  #1564  
Old 01-07-2010, 11:11 AM
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Palantirion Palantirion is offline
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Mein Auto: 2003 M5-S2, 2002 540iT-S2
I've signed up for SpeedVenture's track event at Cal Speedway for 1-16 and 1-17. AJ (ESS's programmer) will be coming out from AZ to ride shotgun with his laptop. Hopefully we will get to the bottom of the limp mode issue.

OT: Free Krav Maga open house for SoCal people: http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=424305
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Last edited by Palantirion; 01-07-2010 at 11:20 AM.
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  #1565  
Old 01-07-2010, 12:58 PM
Ron Stygar's Avatar
Ron Stygar Ron Stygar is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Palantirion View Post
I've signed up for SpeedVenture's track event at Cal Speedway for 1-16 and 1-17. AJ (ESS's programmer) will be coming out from AZ to ride shotgun with his laptop. Hopefully we will get to the bottom of the limp mode issue.
That should be interesting.
What system does he have on his laptop?
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  #1566  
Old 01-07-2010, 02:09 PM
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Palantirion Palantirion is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Stygar View Post
That should be interesting.
What system does he have on his laptop?
-No idea, and I'm sure he won't tell me, lol. I've seen him hook up directly to the DME's circuit board and fiddle with code. It wouldn't surprise me if he uses software that he wrote himself.
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  #1567  
Old 01-08-2010, 12:52 AM
silversprint silversprint is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Palantirion View Post
I've signed up for SpeedVenture's track event at Cal Speedway for 1-16 and 1-17. AJ (ESS's programmer) will be coming out from AZ to ride shotgun with his laptop. Hopefully we will get to the bottom of the limp mode issue.

OT: Free Krav Maga open house for SoCal people: http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=424305

I'm signed up for sunday but not with the BMW. If you need a stock Z4 to log I can bring my car. Mark (colakitty) is also signed up with his Z4. Let us know if we can help.

I hope the programmer does not get car sick. I know I would if I was playing with a computer while someone drove the Roval.
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  #1568  
Old 01-08-2010, 10:50 AM
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Palantirion Palantirion is offline
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Originally Posted by silversprint View Post
I hope the programmer does not get car sick. I know I would if I was playing with a computer while someone drove the Roval.
-LOL, I'm thinking the same thing.
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  #1569  
Old 01-08-2010, 12:14 PM
CalRick CalRick is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Palantirion View Post
-LOL, I'm thinking the same thing.
If the guy is a Navy GIB (guy in back) he should have no problem!
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  #1570  
Old 01-09-2010, 02:50 AM
Cube Cube is offline
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Location: Italy
 
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Mein Auto: Z4 M C, 320d, Eclipse GSX
Quote:
Originally Posted by Palantirion View Post
I've signed up for SpeedVenture's track event at Cal Speedway for 1-16 and 1-17. AJ (ESS's programmer) will be coming out from AZ to ride shotgun with his laptop. Hopefully we will get to the bottom of the limp mode issue.

OT: Free Krav Maga open house for SoCal people: http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=424305
Well, I hope AJ do the magic and the lipms disappear... ZM supercharged guys are supporting you
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Z4M E86 my 2007 "The Lifting Machine", 320d E91 my 2010 , Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX "il Mostro" my 1992.

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  #1571  
Old 01-16-2010, 09:29 PM
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Palantirion Palantirion is offline
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LOTS of testing with AJ (ESS's programmer) at Cal Speedway today, more tomorrow. The limp mode isn't fixed, but progress in understanding it has been made. The short version is...with 10,000 variables in the code, how to you figure out which one is upsetting the car when it throws no error code? So, trial and error it is. It's not really quite that bad, cause and effect has been noted, etc., etc., and I've got some funny stories to share when I have more time to write. Off to sleep...

p.s. Ever disconnect the DSC module from the car and then track it? Very weird! Don't do it, lol.
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  #1572  
Old 01-16-2010, 09:47 PM
blau335 blau335 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Palantirion View Post

p.s. Ever disconnect the DSC module from the car and then track it? Very weird! Don't do it, lol.
You track with dsc on?
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  #1573  
Old 01-17-2010, 03:27 AM
Cube Cube is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blau335 View Post
You track with dsc on?
Maybe Palantirion means unplug the dsc module, dont the button ... I hope
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Z4M E86 my 2007 "The Lifting Machine", 320d E91 my 2010 , Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX "il Mostro" my 1992.

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  #1574  
Old 01-17-2010, 09:13 AM
blau335 blau335 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cube View Post
Maybe Palantirion means unplug the dsc module, dont the button ... I hope
I'm sure he does, but I wouldn't think it would make a difference if he had DSC off, except for ABS, which also shouldn't. So I'm curious of the car was like wigging out or something.
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  #1575  
Old 01-17-2010, 03:03 PM
Cube Cube is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blau335 View Post
I'm sure he does, but I wouldn't think it would make a difference if he had DSC off, except for ABS, which also shouldn't. So I'm curious of the car was like wigging out or something.
We can only wait for news... but I can confirm that my car too shows irrational "behavior" sometimes
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