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E36 /7 Z3 (1996-2002)
E36/7 Z3 roadster and coupe talk with our gurus here.

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  #1  
Old 02-12-2003, 07:51 PM
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NASCAR-style conversion studs

New from TC Kline Racing for the serious competitor:

http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/sh...threadid=75159
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  #2  
Old 02-15-2003, 08:52 PM
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Those are a bit pricey - about $200 for a set (5 lug) vs. $150ish for the "crap studs" that most vendors offer (including TC Kline) WITH nuts. Seems like a reasonable extra expense.

Now those Daiyama lug nuts are trick! But is that $80 for 4 or for a set of 4 x 4 = 16? At first the wording ("complete 4 lug set") had me thinking they wanted $20 per nut. Surely I was mistaken.

For $300 total it seems like good insurance.
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  #3  
Old 02-16-2003, 11:54 AM
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It's certainly not for everyone and is a bit pricey, but for people who must change wheels often or quickly it is a necessary convenience. I've seen hubs have to be replaced from having the bolts screwed in and out of them so often. They were not originally designed for this type of service and the threads in the hub mounting holes will weaken over time. Even the best lugbolts are not made out of material as strong as these studs. Lugbolts have been known to break and IMO are generally an all-around PITA.
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  #4  
Old 02-16-2003, 12:21 PM
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I agree. I'll give them a shot on my track car.
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  #5  
Old 02-17-2003, 08:41 AM
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Mark - who do you deal with at TC Kline?
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  #6  
Old 02-17-2003, 06:06 PM
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I dealt mostly with Pete Stackhouse on the studs. The set I have was the last of the prototypes, not sure when the production parts hit the shelf.
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Old 02-17-2003, 07:43 PM
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I didn't realize that lug bolts were less durable than studs and nuts like the rest of the automotive world. Why does BMW use bolts, anyway?
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  #8  
Old 02-18-2003, 12:12 AM
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They're not necessarily less durable for their intended street use; street cars don't typically swap wheels on and off several times a month like a serious autox or track application would
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Old 02-18-2003, 05:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by TeamZ4
They're not necessarily less durable for their intended street use; street cars don't typically swap wheels on and off several times a month like a serious autox or track application would
So are normal lug/nut assemblies (like you'd find stock on, say, a C5) more durable for frequent wheel swaps?

Either way, it's infinitely simpler to just use lugs and nuts to mount a wheel than it is to deal with wheel bolts. I wish I knew why BMW has used bolts for so long.
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  #10  
Old 02-19-2003, 07:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jetfire
So are normal lug/nut assemblies (like you'd find stock on, say, a C5) more durable for frequent wheel swaps?

Either way, it's infinitely simpler to just use lugs and nuts to mount a wheel than it is to deal with wheel bolts. I wish I knew why BMW has used bolts for so long.
With alloy wheels it is more likely to chew up the lug holes when putting the wheels on or taking them off with studs. The threads can chew up the holes. With bolts this doesn't happen.

Of course that does explain why bolts are used with steel wheels, like my old Fiat 850 Spider.
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  #11  
Old 02-19-2003, 07:47 AM
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I'm looking at buying a car that has been upgraded to Group N hubs with studs. I'll have to get more details on the type of studs/nuts he's using. He said the nuts are 19mm.
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  #12  
Old 02-19-2003, 11:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Pinecone
With alloy wheels it is more likely to chew up the lug holes when putting the wheels on or taking them off with studs. The threads can chew up the holes. With bolts this doesn't happen.
I've never heard of this happening and even if it did the actual holes are not a tight fit on the bolts or the studs. It's the cone seat machined into the wheel along with the hubcenter that does all the locating.

I'd rethink that position.
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  #13  
Old 02-19-2003, 12:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by TeamZ4
I've never heard of this happening and even if it did the actual holes are not a tight fit on the bolts or the studs. It's the cone seat machined into the wheel along with the hubcenter that does all the locating.

I'd rethink that position.
The problem comes from sliding the wheels on and off. People tend to drop them onto the studs, then "slide" them off. That's where the wheel thread contact comes from.

You are absolutely right, when installed there is no contact between the wheels and threads, just like with bolts.
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  #14  
Old 02-19-2003, 06:11 PM
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In otherwords, it's a problem yet no problem exists?

OK, I give up.
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Old 02-19-2003, 06:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by TeamZ4
In otherwords, it's a problem yet no problem exists?

OK, I give up.
Dude, he said it could cause problems while mounting/unmounting wheels and not while it's actually mounted. You could really stand to be less combative/defensive around here.
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  #16  
Old 02-19-2003, 09:35 PM
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ok, the experts have spoken.
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  #17  
Old 02-20-2003, 05:12 AM
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Quote:
You could really stand to be less combative/defensive around here.

Quote:
Originally posted by TeamZ4
ok, the experts have spoken.
Yeah, like that.

READ my post, like Jetfire says, there can be a problem when most idiots pull the wheel off or put it on. If you watch the normal person do this, they loosen the wheel, then drop it on the studs then slide it off. For mounting they hoist it onto the studs, then slide it back then jiggle it around to get it in place, then put the nuts on.

The sliding the wheel across the threads cn damage the wheel.

You can avoid that if you are careful. Or you can just replace the wheels every so often like some race teams do.
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  #18  
Old 02-20-2003, 07:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Pinecone
Yeah, like that.

READ my post, like Jetfire says, there can be a problem when most idiots pull the wheel off or put it on. If you watch the normal person do this, they loosen the wheel, then drop it on the studs then slide it off. For mounting they hoist it onto the studs, then slide it back then jiggle it around to get it in place, then put the nuts on.

The sliding the wheel across the threads cn damage the wheel.

You can avoid that if you are careful. Or you can just replace the wheels every so often like some race teams do.
I'll try to keep this in mind and be careful. The car I'm looking at with the Group N hubs has studs that are pressed in from the back (not screw in), but I may want to check on getting the nice lug nuts.
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