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E36/7 Z3 (1996-2002)
E36/7 Z3 Roadster, Z3 coupe, Z3 M Roadster and Z3 M Coupe talk with our gurus here.

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  #1  
Old 02-14-2003, 12:58 PM
Alex Baumann Alex Baumann is offline
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Talking MZ4 is being tested

Aloha Dear Z fans !

A 340 hp version of the Z4 (with quad pipes) was caught during tests. I have a small picture in the magazine, which I will scan and post here later.

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  #2  
Old 02-14-2003, 12:59 PM
chazzy chazzy is offline
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Which magazine?
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  #3  
Old 02-14-2003, 01:01 PM
Alex Baumann Alex Baumann is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by chazzy
Which magazine?
Auto Bild, Germany
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  #4  
Old 02-14-2003, 02:35 PM
JakeC JakeC is offline
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Autocar article of the M Z4
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  #5  
Old 02-14-2003, 02:59 PM
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This article was out middle of last year or so...

...before the Z4 was even released as I recall. Definitely saw it some time ago.

That begs the question as to why there hasn't been anymore sightings or information.
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  #6  
Old 02-14-2003, 03:10 PM
LarryN LarryN is offline
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Excellent camoflage job. I had no idea what that thing was.

Why would BMW cover up a roundel, when it's sooooo obvious what the package was?

BTW, as always, nice scoop Herr Baumann! and thanks for the pic, Jake.
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  #7  
Old 02-14-2003, 03:28 PM
Alex Baumann Alex Baumann is offline
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Here you go.

Please note the registration no. and the wheels (M68)
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  #8  
Old 02-15-2003, 01:24 PM
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Rear wheels smaller than the front?
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  #9  
Old 02-15-2003, 07:07 PM
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The other problem is, BMW is selling M3s as quickly as they can make S54 engines. So to make an MZ4, they would have to cut M3 production.

SO think about it, cut a good selling, high profit car volume, to buildd a limited number of low profit cars.

Not if they have one bit of business sense.
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  #10  
Old 02-16-2003, 01:19 PM
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They test all kinds of combinations, most of which never see the light of day beyond the testing
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  #11  
Old 02-16-2003, 06:30 PM
William Yu William Yu is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by Pinecone
The other problem is, BMW is selling M3s as quickly as they can make S54 engines. So to make an MZ4, they would have to cut M3 production.
I can see the problem from BMW's perspective for the MZ3. Instead of getting up to $60K for a M3 Cabrio, they had to settle for just $47K for a M Roadster. However, since a Z4 3.0 is already at $47K, I can see easily see the MZ4 selling for as much as a M3 convertible.
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  #12  
Old 02-16-2003, 08:49 PM
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compare the difference between a 330Ci and an M3 and then add that difference to a Z4 + 10%
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  #13  
Old 02-16-2003, 08:52 PM
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Re: MZ4 is being tested

Quote:
Originally posted by Alex Baumann
Aloha Dear Z fans !

A 340 hp version of the Z4 (with quad pipes) was caught during tests. I have a small picture in the magazine, which I will scan and post here later.

Did they actually raise the hood and verify the engine? Otherwise, the Z4 has a dual exhaust that snakes out to one side. How can you be sure it's not just a std Z4 with a dual tailpipe exhaust fitted? Maybe that was an original Z4 concept that got canned for cost purposes. You can make any wild guess you want; take your pick.

Last edited by TeamZ4; 02-16-2003 at 08:56 PM.
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  #14  
Old 02-16-2003, 09:08 PM
chazzy chazzy is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by Pinecone
The other problem is, BMW is selling M3s as quickly as they can make S54 engines. So to make an MZ4, they would have to cut M3 production.

SO think about it, cut a good selling, high profit car volume, to buildd a limited number of low profit cars.

Not if they have one bit of business sense.
Are you sure the M3 is a more profitable car than a M Roadster would be? I'm not convinced of that. Watch the M Roadster cost very close to the M3 in price. Not $60k for the M3 cab, but it should be comparable in cost to the M3 coupe. Remember that a fully loaded Z3 3.0i with most of the goodies can cost about the same as a base M3 coupe. Adding the S54 engine could easily make a well equipped Z4-based M Roadster cost the same as much as an M3 coupe. So which is more profitable? I don't know what the costs of the car are.
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Old 02-17-2003, 05:16 AM
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Pinecone Pinecone is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by chazzy
Are you sure the M3 is a more profitable car than a M Roadster would be? I'm not convinced of that. Watch the M Roadster cost very close to the M3 in price. Not $60k for the M3 cab, but it should be comparable in cost to the M3 coupe. Remember that a fully loaded Z3 3.0i with most of the goodies can cost about the same as a base M3 coupe. Adding the S54 engine could easily make a well equipped Z4-based M Roadster cost the same as much as an M3 coupe. So which is more profitable? I don't know what the costs of the car are.
READ the posted article.

It has a quote about the low profit margins of the small run of MZ3 cars. So why would the MZ4 be any better? Especially at the price, arcording to the article some L9K, or about $13 - 14K.

AND an optioned Z4 3.0i is as expensive as a base M3.

Remember you have to sell enough to amortize the development costs. And an M development is a LOT more than dropping the engine in.
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  #16  
Old 02-17-2003, 07:22 AM
chazzy chazzy is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by Pinecone
READ the posted article.

It has a quote about the low profit margins of the small run of MZ3 cars. So why would the MZ4 be any better? Especially at the price, arcording to the article some L9K, or about $13 - 14K.

AND an optioned Z4 3.0i is as expensive as a base M3.

Remember you have to sell enough to amortize the development costs. And an M development is a LOT more than dropping the engine in.
Yes, I did read that Autocar article when it first came out, at least a few months ago. While it does talk about costs and profits from the last one, it says nothing about a Z4-based M Roadster. You're right -- nothing indicates that it could be better, but nothing indicates that it wouldn't be, either. But it could sell more units. In the horsepower war, the Z4 could easily have an edge over the less powerful Boxster and have a few years over it in terms of revisions and styling, meaning that it could sell more units. It's all speculation.

BTW, I wasn't trivializing what it takes to build an MZ4 -- "adding an S54" isn't meant to be taken literally. Amortization of development costs certainly needs to be taken into account, but it seems to me that the largest cost that needs to be amortized is the engine. Development of the suspension and other M-only pieces should be significantly less. The S54 is already developed, so it comes down to whether the advantages of amortizing the cost of the S54 across the M Z4 line (as well as the M3) are higher than the development cost of the M Z4 from the regular Z4.
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  #17  
Old 02-17-2003, 07:58 AM
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scottn2retro scottn2retro is offline
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My opinion -

The ultra high performance roadster market is a very narrow market. As far as I know, M Roadsters were never 'flying' off the dealer lots. By the time I got mine, they were usually sitting around with people picking them up below Kelly Blue Book published invoice. (I got mine new for 41K).

If you project a price of around $60K, someone wanting to do track events may as well get the M3, since it would make a better track car anyway (Most track events would require a roll bar modification for the roadster and even then the aerodynamics would make the M3 a better choice).
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  #18  
Old 02-17-2003, 03:14 PM
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Let's see, Z4s sitting on the lot, now why would someone pay $60K for an MZ4?

Heck, I would sell it immediately if you GAVE me one.

But there is no reason to think that an MZ4 would sell more than the MZ3 did. And you are taking a chance by taking away volume from a successful, selling as many as they can car.

Now maybe after the M3 sales taper off just before the new model, the MZ4 might be possible.

As for MZ3 sales, when we bought our pre-owned 2000 one, fall of 2001, the dealer had several pre-owned ones, and a 2001 and 2002 new one.
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  #19  
Old 02-17-2003, 03:58 PM
in_d_haus in_d_haus is offline
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BMW admitted that the M division had 2 Z4s. This is probably one of them they are playing with...doesn't mean it will ever see production
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  #20  
Old 02-17-2003, 04:13 PM
LarryN LarryN is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by in_d_haus
BMW admitted that the M division had 2 Z4s. This is probably one of them they are playing with...doesn't mean it will ever see production
Actually, it must be both of them, if there are only two. Look at the number plates.
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