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E82 / E88 1 Series (2008 - 2013)
BMWs throw back to the iconic 2002, with a renewed form and function. The smallest car in BMW's line up but still packs a punch. Available in coupe or convertible, powered by either an inline 6 in the 128 or the twin turbo rocket sled 135.

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  #1  
Old 07-02-2007, 04:33 PM
hts hts is offline
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Might the 1-series be counter-productive for BMW?

Before you dismiss me out-of-hand, please indulge me for a second.

I think it's clear that BMW is introducing the 1-series in the N. American market in order to capture younger, less affluent customers that it's currently losing out to the GTI, A3, IS250, etc. It therefore decided to bring to market at a price/status point between the Mini and the 3er. But what if current BMW owners (and I'll put myself into this potential demo) who might have been inclined to buy a 5er decide to buy a 135 instead? I think the sheer volume of discussion around the 1er on this board might be enough to give BMW pause for thought.

I currently own an E46 330i and a Boxster S. I was planning to get an E60 within the next year or two (most likely a 535i or equivalent). Now I'm thinking I might ditch both my current cars and pick up a 135cic instead. I seriously doubt that it was BMW's intention to cannibalize the sale of a $60k car with a $40k car, but that's exactly what might happen. While neither the 6 series nor 3 series convertible appeal to me, for some peculiar reason, a 135cic gets my attention!

Your thoughts?

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  #2  
Old 07-02-2007, 04:34 PM
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If they sell enough volume, no.
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  #3  
Old 07-02-2007, 05:00 PM
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Why ditch the boxster S?
I don't think the majority of prospective 5 series buyers will opt for the 135.
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  #4  
Old 07-02-2007, 05:05 PM
hts hts is offline
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I took the S on a 2-year lease (kinda' like a 40-something mid-life crisis). In any event, having two cars is a PITA (I'm not driving either of them very much). Now that I've had a convert (first one in my life), I'm totally addicted to it, but if I'm only going to have one car, it needs to be something just a wee-bit more practical. I may look at a 911 next (small back seat), but a 135cic with a sub 5 second 60 (faster than my S) and a tiny back seat could be just the ticket.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SSIMON View Post
Why ditch the boxster S?
I don't think the majority of prospective 5 series buyers will opt for the 135.
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  #5  
Old 07-02-2007, 06:11 PM
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Originally Posted by goodkarma View Post
I took the S on a 2-year lease (kinda' like a 40-something mid-life crisis). In any event, having two cars is a PITA (I'm not driving either of them very much). Now that I've had a convert (first one in my life), I'm totally addicted to it, but if I'm only going to have one car, it needs to be something just a wee-bit more practical. I may look at a 911 next (small back seat), but a 135cic with a sub 5 second 60 (faster than my S) and a tiny back seat could be just the ticket.
Good point but you'll miss having a vert.
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  #6  
Old 07-02-2007, 06:15 PM
330ci2B 330ci2B is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by goodkarma View Post
Before you dismiss me out-of-hand, please indulge me for a second.

I think it's clear that BMW is introducing the 1-series in the N. American market in order to capture younger, less affluent customers that it's currently losing out to the GTI, A3, IS250, etc. It therefore decided to bring to market at a price/status point between the Mini and the 3er. But what if current BMW owners (and I'll put myself into this potential demo) who might have been inclined to buy a 5er decide to buy a 135 instead? I think the sheer volume of discussion around the 1er on this board might be enough to give BMW pause for thought.

I currently own an E46 330i and a Boxster S. I was planning to get an E60 within the next year or two (most likely a 535i or equivalent). Now I'm thinking I might ditch both my current cars and pick up a 135cic instead. I seriously doubt that it was BMW's intention to cannibalize the sale of a $60k car with a $40k car, but that's exactly what might happen. While neither the 6 series nor 3 series convertible appeal to me, for some peculiar reason, a 135cic gets my attention!

Your thoughts?


I was thinking about getting on the waiting list for the new M3, however I'm thinking about a 135i instead. The 335 coupe just doesnt do it for me...
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  #7  
Old 07-02-2007, 06:17 PM
Cliff Cliff is offline
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I would wager that the overwhelming majority of people in the market for a 5er are not going to be cross-shopping a 1er.
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  #8  
Old 07-02-2007, 06:18 PM
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If I got a 911, it would also have to be a vert.



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Originally Posted by SSIMON View Post
Good point but you'll miss having a vert.
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  #9  
Old 07-02-2007, 06:19 PM
hts hts is offline
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You're absolutely right, common sense would seem to dictate as much.

That being said, I'm 41 years old and have outgrown my 3er and I'm prepared to move up to a 5, and while I have no desire to get a new 3er, I am highly interested in the 1. Defies logic and I can't explain it, but it is exactly what it is.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Cliff View Post
I would wager that the overwhelming majority of people in the market for a 5er are not going to be cross-shopping a 1er.
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  #10  
Old 07-02-2007, 06:23 PM
Cliff Cliff is offline
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And I'm 51 and the Z4MC is satisfying my coupe lust big time. A 3 or 5 door 135 would make for a nice replacement for the 330Ci once I'm ready to consider replacing it.
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  #11  
Old 07-02-2007, 06:40 PM
ProRail ProRail is offline
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I'm very disappointed at the quality of responses to this theory. Let's see... should I get a (new) 5, 6, or 135? C'mon; you guys have got to do better than this. (Hey; I love the 135 and would love to have one when they finally get here, but it's not an alternative choice; it's a completely different car.)
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  #12  
Old 07-02-2007, 07:41 PM
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BMW might lose a bit of profit if someone buys a 135i instead of a 335i. But how much do they lose if buyer's first luxury car is an Audi, Mercedes, or Acura, instead of a 1 series?
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  #13  
Old 07-02-2007, 08:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by goodkarma View Post
Before you dismiss me out-of-hand, please indulge me for a second.

I think it's clear that BMW is introducing the 1-series in the N. American market in order to capture younger, less affluent customers that it's currently losing out to the GTI, A3, IS250, etc. It therefore decided to bring to market at a price/status point between the Mini and the 3er. But what if current BMW owners (and I'll put myself into this potential demo) who might have been inclined to buy a 5er decide to buy a 135 instead? I think the sheer volume of discussion around the 1er on this board might be enough to give BMW pause for thought.

I currently own an E46 330i and a Boxster S. I was planning to get an E60 within the next year or two (most likely a 535i or equivalent). Now I'm thinking I might ditch both my current cars and pick up a 135cic instead. I seriously doubt that it was BMW's intention to cannibalize the sale of a $60k car with a $40k car, but that's exactly what might happen. While neither the 6 series nor 3 series convertible appeal to me, for some peculiar reason, a 135cic gets my attention!

Your thoughts?

I'm sure those scenarios will indeed play out. However, the car has the potential to capture the attention of the next generation of enthusiasts or another element of the population BMW hasn't been reaching. By tapping into that market, the car could yeild repeat businees for many years to come where buyers move into more expensive products.

Plus, it reassures the long-time fans of the company that they haven't totally lost their way. This car is the essence of what BMW built their reputation with and as nice as a new X5 may be, it isn't even close.

So, I think it might indeed canabalize sales of pricier products but it also has the potential to positively impact the company's long-term health. They just have to make sure it is seen as a 2002 heir and not a "cheap" BMW.
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  #14  
Old 07-02-2007, 11:42 PM
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Hey guys, the 135i is not a "loss-leader." Whatever price BMW assigns to it here in NA, it will have a profit margin built-in. BMW will make money on every 135i sold here (and everywhere). If someone who is driving a 3er or a 5er (or is just shopping for cars like that) decides that a 135i suits their desires better than anything else, then they are buying a BMW and the money goes into BMW's pocket rather than their competitors'. If a 135i suits their needs and/or desires they will buy a car like a 135i from someone. Most of the car-buying public is not married to any one marque.
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  #15  
Old 07-02-2007, 11:48 PM
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When I compare the differences between a 3/5/6/7 series, the quality, features, sound deadoning, options, etc. are significant. Much like comparing an X3 to an X5. The X3 does not even seem like the same car company.

The 1 series will be the same way. A lower cost, smaller, cheaper 3 series.

The attraction to the 1 series for me comes down to the engine and weight. It won't be a vacation car, or a comfortable car, but a fun little hot rod with the twin turbos.

However, you will give up a lot. The 1 series won't take sales from the 3 series. Just like the 3 has not stole sales from the 6 series.
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  #16  
Old 07-03-2007, 02:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chuck92103 View Post
When I compare the differences between a 3/5/6/7 series, the quality, features, sound deadoning, options, etc. are significant. Much like comparing an X3 to an X5. The X3 does not even seem like the same car company.

The 1 series will be the same way. A lower cost, smaller, cheaper 3 series.

The attraction to the 1 series for me comes down to the engine and weight. It won't be a vacation car, or a comfortable car, but a fun little hot rod with the twin turbos.

However, you will give up a lot. The 1 series won't take sales from the 3 series. Just like the 3 has not stole sales from the 6 series.
When I worked at our local dealership, my opinion was very much different from yours. I did not feel like there was much difference in quality between the 7 and 6s and 3 sedans and coupes, only features. If anything, I felt the 7s and 6s should have been nicer given the quality they could deliver on the 3. The 135i/128i will be of the same quality inside and out as the 3, only smaller.

Who says it won't also be a comfortable car or a vacation car? Because it is small and not huge like the 6? The 6, for example, could probably seat people as comfortable in the back seat as the 1, yet its large size would imply otherwise.

Your point may be valid only with the X3, but that was only at launch for the car. The cheapness that car suffered from is no where to be seen anymore IMO.

I do not feel that there is a "cheap" BMW in the lineup since the 1 and X3 have been revised.
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  #17  
Old 07-03-2007, 04:23 AM
BayAreaBMWFan BayAreaBMWFan is offline
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A large number of people buy BMW for the Roundel and not for the driving experience. They will not buy a 1er.
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  #18  
Old 07-03-2007, 05:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BayAreaBMWFan View Post
A large number of people buy BMW for the Roundel and not for the driving experience. They will not buy a 1er.
That is more or less the bottom line.

The number of people who would seriously consider a 1 series over a 5 or 7 series (assuming they have the ability to acquire any one of them) represent, at best, a niche in the market. In a country where bigger is better (be it the actual size of the car or the number on the boot lid), it's simply not becoming for your typical badge buyer to "downsize" into an "entry level" car. BMW will continue to sell the M5 in decent numbers despite the fact that the latest M3 is really pushing it in terms of purpose and size simply because the M5 is a more prestigious model. That, and performance features are not all that desirable to most buyers. Luxury and "value" are. I'd say that BMW's current sales numbers are due largely to the fact that they now offer far more for the money than they ever have in the past.

BTW - the 135 cabrio will be hundreds of pounds heavier than your Boxster. It'll have more power (though considering the weight, that could be negligible - isn't the 987S already a mid 13ish second car? The 135i probably won't be any faster) and it'll look the part, but I'm sure you'll probably find that it drives much more like a traditional touring cabrio than a sports roadster. You will gain a very cramped rear seat (I think) and a bit of boot space, for what it's worth.
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  #19  
Old 07-03-2007, 04:00 PM
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Go for the 135 vert- who gives a rats ass if it's not the most luxurious or prestigious car on the road!- it will be one of the funnest. That's what its all about.
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Old 07-03-2007, 04:15 PM
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It's all about choice. I'm happy that BMWNA is giving us this chance to choose a 1er.
Now keep up the good work and give us the chance to choose a 135i hatch or a 335iT or a 550iT.
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Old 07-03-2007, 05:00 PM
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I think the 1-Series will get more people into BMW's period. There are a few people (some of them other import buyers) over at GMInsidenews who said that the 1-Series if priced right will put BMW on their shopping list.

Anytime BMW can steal people form Lexus, Infiniti, and Acura I am happy. Hell they can even pick off a few Cadillac and Lincoln customers (not that they really compete given the product at both up until recently).

The 1-Series for me has cemented the fact I am buying a BMW as my next car. The M Coupe and Z4 Coupe are my #1 and #2 on my list, and the 135i just got put in at #3. The list has only 3 spots!
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Old 07-03-2007, 06:48 PM
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The only other BMW from which the 1er coupe might steal a small number of sales from is the 3er, nothing else. As was said earlier, your typical 5er customer isn't even remotely considering the 1er, maybe perhaps for their child(brat- j.k!). To boot the 1er coupe will be the only 1er variant available for U.S. consumption, that said this is likely not to be a family car though I'm sure there will be a number of individuals that will use it as such(I know I will, the future wifey would have to fight me on this one), this car isn't very big.

One thing is for sure though(as it will also be nice to know), a large # of 1er coupes will end up in the hands of quite a few BMW enthusiasts.
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Old 07-13-2007, 06:17 PM
screechmartin screechmartin is offline
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More likely to eat into the sales of the 3 series

Quote:
Originally Posted by ProRail View Post
I'm very disappointed at the quality of responses to this theory. Let's see... should I get a (new) 5, 6, or 135? C'mon; you guys have got to do better than this. (Hey; I love the 135 and would love to have one when they finally get here, but it's not an alternative choice; it's a completely different car.)
I don't think the target audience for the 1 series and 5 series are the same people. At the risk of a horrible generalization, the 5 series crowd are affluent, slightly boring, burdened with children, but still in the market for an upmarket car that drives well. Why would they interested in a cheaper, sportier car with less room (and fewer doors) for children?

The 3 series crowd, on the other hand, would seem to be the same sort of folks who would buy a 1 series, particularly since the 1 series would appear to be superior in most respects to what is currently on offer in the 3 series line.

In fact, I don't understand where this car fits in to the BMW line at all. The 135i has a much larger engine than my 2004 330ci so how can they propose to sell this for less than the 330 cost me? Are there are other aspects of the car that are of inferior build quality than the 3 series that would justify the lower price?

MOS
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  #24  
Old 07-13-2007, 06:46 PM
04bimmer 04bimmer is offline
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is the 135i supposed to be less than a 325i?, how much are these things gonna go for?
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  #25  
Old 07-13-2007, 07:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 04bimmer View Post
is the 135i supposed to be less than a 325i?, how much are these things gonna go for?

Its 190i less.
Price is unknown at this time. There is a guess the price thread.

Common sense puts the price somewhere between Mini Cooper S and 335i coupe.

135i coupe might well cost more than a 328i sedan.

128i coupe will certainly cost less than 328i coupe.
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