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E82 / E88 1 Series (2008 - 2013)
BMWs throw back to the iconic 2002, with a renewed form and function. The smallest car in BMW's line up but still packs a punch. Available in coupe or convertible, powered by either an inline 6 in the 128 or the twin turbo rocket sled 135.

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  #1  
Old 07-12-2007, 08:01 AM
philippek philippek is offline
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2008 Vw R32

Revied in this issue of Autoweek:

- 250 hp, 236 lb-ft, AWD
- 6 speed DSG
- 0-60 6.4 sec
- Fuel Economy 18/23
- Base Price $33,630
- Curb Weight 3547 lbs

"[The R32] is deliberately intended to be the ultimate European hot hatch by combining driving exhiliration with practicality and refinement." -David Goggins, VW Brand Manager



VAG really screwed up here. How can any enthusiast justify the R32 over 135i? The lack of a true manual transmission is a bad start (although that DSG is admitedly a technological marvel), but the VeeDub is also slow, porky and expensive!

Unless you really value AWD I don't think there's any reason to even take a look. Shame. Having driven the 2004 R32s I know VW is capable of magic, but looks like they lost their way on this one, and got a little greedy to boot.
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  #2  
Old 07-12-2007, 08:26 AM
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Well it's more practical, cheaper, has AWD (which some misguided types view as an advantage over rwd), and has a better interior. It's probably faster than the 250 hp would indicate as well. It gets great reviews in Europe (EVO & CAR), and was even preferred overall by those mags over the 130i.
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  #3  
Old 07-12-2007, 08:34 AM
philippek philippek is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dawg90 View Post
Well it's cheaper
If base is $33,630, I'm guessing most of the ones you'll see on dealer lots will MSRP around $37-38k. A completely ridiculous amount considering what you could get from BMW.
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Old 07-12-2007, 08:35 AM
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the 2004 MKIV .:R32's are still holding their value better than almost any other car out there. there is a huge demand for the that body style and a true cult following. i have autocrossed a friend's .:R that has many bolt ons and it is an amazing car and i can see why people love them. i have driven them stock also and just can't believe how impressive they are. i used to have a 2003 GTI 1.8T, and while i loved it, the .:R is a whole different beast.


The MKV .:R32 will have the exhaust note the car is well-known for, a better suspension set-up than the MKIV, and the DSG transmission that you noted before. The .:R has never been all about straight line speed, its about the total package. It might be a little "porky" but there is a real backseat and a lot of comfort as well. While it is true that manual is not offered, I do not see this hurting too much based on the low production volume (5000) and the outstanding performance of the DSG. in addition, most people buy automatics now, which is a shame but the truth. As far as price, VW has one of the smallest markups in the industry, which doesn't help sell cars to people who are only focused on a discount. for the total package and exclusivity, i think the .:R will be a hit...especially with one of the world's greatest exhaust notes.
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Old 07-12-2007, 08:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by philippek View Post
If base is $33,630, I'm guessing most of the ones you'll see on dealer lots will MSRP around $37-38k. A completely ridiculous amount considering what you could get from BMW.
the only option is navi...everything else is standard. so you would be looking at 35,430
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  #6  
Old 07-12-2007, 08:42 AM
akhbhaat akhbhaat is offline
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Well, the MkIV based R32 was hardly a lightweight either (I believe somewhere in the realm of 3400+ lbs). Never understood the hype over that machine myself, though I did like the way it looked and sounded.

How will anybody justify it over the 135i? Well, for one, there's the hardcore VDub crowd. There's just as blindly loyal and stupid as their BMW counterparts (perhaps even more so).

Two: it may be somewhat cheaper out the door - a couple thousand at least (even though I don't think the 135i will cross the 35k threshold - base MSRP, that is). I may be wrong on this, but I think the R32 (being the very toast of the Golf line) comes more or less loaded out of the box.

Three: in case you haven't noticed, the 135i is a 3400+ lb car. No denying it at this point - the brochures and specs have been leaked. So we're talking about two pigs, here - one just got to the feeding trough a bit later.

Four: the GTI/Golf is better looking, more comfortable and nicer inside than the 1 series. I say this having compared them side by side. Don't underestimate the importance of that, especially in the US market.

And finally, it'll be sold in limited quantities, and there'll be more than enough takers under the rocks here and there to pick up all of them.
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Old 07-12-2007, 09:16 AM
philippek philippek is offline
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Yes, there are many VW nuts out there. Not that there's anything wrong with that

And I'm sure VW will sell every single one of them. Hell, the 04s went for well over MSRP in these parts, and as Autoweek noted, many are valued at 85% of their original MSRP

But VW also used to be about value. I can't see the value equation here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by akhbhaat
Two: it may be somewhat cheaper out the door - a couple thousand at least (even though I don't think the 135i will cross the 35k threshold - base MSRP, that is). I may be wrong on this, but I think the R32 (being the very toast of the Golf line) comes more or less loaded out of the box.
Being "loaded out of the box" is a negative for me, and I imagine most enthusiasts.
Quote:
Originally Posted by akhbhaat
Three: in case you haven't noticed, the 135i is a 3400+ lb car. No denying it at this point - the brochures and specs have been leaked. So we're talking about two pigs, here - one just got to the feeding trough a bit later.
Source?
Quote:
Originally Posted by akhbhaat
Four: the GTI/Golf is better looking, more comfortable and nicer inside than the 1 series. I say this having compared them side by side. Don't underestimate the importance of that, especially in the US market.
The U.S. market is still lukewarm to hatches, although VW hatches do have good market penetration. I've sat in the 135i and the previous generation R32, and my static impressions is that the VW is only very slightly nicer--mostly the leather quality, which impressed me on the VW.
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  #8  
Old 07-12-2007, 09:23 AM
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I noticed that VW owners love their DSG. Many prefer it over everything else. You never see them complaining about manuals like many old school enthusiasts do. Another point to consider in that previous statement; most VW owners I would say are also under 30.
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  #9  
Old 07-12-2007, 09:45 AM
akhbhaat akhbhaat is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by philippek View Post
But VW also used to be about value. I can't see the value equation here.
I remember when I took my mother with me when I was shopping for a new car years ago.

I test drove a slightly used (99) 323i at a VW dealership. The salesman there noted that the car (the 3er) had been traded in on a Passat (of all things - the previous owner had been a woman who apparently didn't like the "harsh ride" of the E46 ). My mother couldn't believe what she was hearing. "$27,000 for a Volkswagen?!" This was in 2000.

VW is now apparently trying to position themselves as the value alternative to the luxury marques, and not just a value alternative in general. Awfully strange marketing tactic when they have Audi to work with.

Quote:
Being "loaded out of the box" is a negative for me, and I imagine most enthusiasts.
Agreed. Certainly for me, as well.

Quote:
Source?
http://www.1addicts.com/forums/showthread.php?t=678

per:

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=217181

Notice the UK model doesn't even have leatherette as an option! It's cloth or leather, as it should be.

Bah, if only...

Quote:
The U.S. market is still lukewarm to hatches, although VW hatches do have good market penetration. I've sat in the 135i and the previous generation R32, and my static impressions is that the VW is only very slightly nicer--mostly the leather quality, which impressed me on the VW.
The Mk V is nicer than the Mk IV (IMO).

The difference between the Golf and 1er isn't all that enormous, but it's there - especially in terms of cabin space. The 1 series isn't all that far off from the 3 series (E90) in terms of overall feel, but there are some noticeably cheaper bits - like the plastic instrument cluster and some of the switchgear. I didn't really like the door handles, either, but that's a complaint I have with other models as well (namely the E90 and both generations of X5).

FWIW, the 135 should be significantly faster than the R32, possibly even on an autocross course. For the purely performance minded buyer, it's a no brainer.
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Last edited by akhbhaat; 07-12-2007 at 09:49 AM.
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  #10  
Old 07-12-2007, 10:50 AM
philippek philippek is offline
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Please note that the figure in that brochure (1560 kg), is based on the EU standard of adding 75 kg for driver and luggage. The true curb weight is 3282 lbs. There is absolutely no reason why the R32 should weigh 250lbs more than the 135i, and when you consider it will be down 50 horsepower and 64 lb-ft., it certainly doesn't look good for the VW, at least in a paper race.

I'll reserve final judgment, but unless the 135i is priced at $41k base, I gotta believe it's a no-brainer.

Last edited by philippek; 07-12-2007 at 10:53 AM.
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  #11  
Old 07-12-2007, 11:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by philippek View Post
Please note that the figure in that brochure (1560 kg), is based on the EU standard of adding 75 kg for driver and luggage. The true curb weight is 3282 lbs.

Not sure about that. The 335i unladen weight (EU) is 1610 kg (3542 lbs), but the US curb weight is 3593 lbs. Using the same conversion, the US 135i curb weight will be 3481 lbs.
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  #12  
Old 07-12-2007, 11:09 AM
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VW = Value ??

That hasn't been the case for a long, long time.... They started their upscale push in the '90s...

VWs are pretty cool cars compared to Hondas and Toyotas... but, expensive by comparison.. plus, the whole reliability thing.

The R32 won't compete with the 1-series here... NO HATCH!!
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  #13  
Old 07-12-2007, 11:23 AM
philippek philippek is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dawg90 View Post
but the US curb weight is 3593 lbs.
I see 3542 quoted by edmunds on the coupe, but where are you getting this 3593 figure?
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  #14  
Old 07-12-2007, 11:28 AM
BumBMW BumBMW is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by philippek View Post
Revied in this issue of Autoweek:

- 250 hp, 236 lb-ft, AWD
- 6 speed DSG
- 0-60 6.4 sec
- Fuel Economy 18/23
- Base Price $33,630
- Curb Weight 3547 lbs

"[The R32] is deliberately intended to be the ultimate European hot hatch by combining driving exhiliration with practicality and refinement." -David Goggins, VW Brand Manager



VAG really screwed up here. How can any enthusiast justify the R32 over 135i? The lack of a true manual transmission is a bad start (although that DSG is admitedly a technological marvel), but the VeeDub is also slow, porky and expensive!

Unless you really value AWD I don't think there's any reason to even take a look. Shame. Having driven the 2004 R32s I know VW is capable of magic, but looks like they lost their way on this one, and got a little greedy to boot.
As always, years pass by and weight inflates, prices inflates, HP inflates. When will it stop and get back to basics? Oh thats right, marketers don't get paid to advertise old technology and less HP. All the better for us since the 2004 model is now less than half the price.
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Old 07-12-2007, 12:35 PM
akhbhaat akhbhaat is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by philippek View Post
I see 3542 quoted by edmunds on the coupe, but where are you getting this 3593 figure?
www.bmwusa.com for the sedan. Edmunds' number is probably sourced from the European data, which is inaccurate (US model has more standard equipment).

The weight discussion has already been going on here:
http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=217181

Regardless of what BMW actually calls it ("unladen weight," "curb weight" etc), there is no evidence to suggest that the actual methods used to weigh the car have ever differed: empty operating weight + 165 lbs/75 kg (driver + luggage or just driver if you prefer), + 90% fuel + standard equipment. A comparison of US market and EU market numbers over the years will show this to be true: some minor differences arise from time to time (probably due to standard equipment), but never nearly enough to suggest the addition or subtraction of that 165 lb driver - especially because the EU market car is usually lighter!

I've long known about the 75 kg provision. I used to point it out years ago when people would compare the weights of Japanese cars (which use a more standard/familiar definition of curb weight: true empty weight plus fuel) to BMW's cars.
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Old 07-12-2007, 01:16 PM
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Originally Posted by philippek View Post
I see 3542 quoted by edmunds on the coupe, but where are you getting this 3593 figure?
I've been quoting the sedan, sorry.

If I remember, when the 1 series came out, they said they didn't use some of the E90's aluminum suspension parts, they used steel in order to save cost.
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Old 07-12-2007, 02:47 PM
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The R32 is more sport focused than the usual GTI, but it's far from a single minded car. The original allure of the BMW sedans was that they were sporty, but also with a modicum of practicality.

If all I wanted was performance, there's multitudes of better performing vehicles devoted to it.

But I drive on public roads, with other cars, for long periods of time. You want a certain level of refinement, luxury, and space without sacrificing too much in value and performance.

There is a difference in performance between the 1 and the R32, but that's not the only measure of cars. You need to find a compromise that fits you best. For some, that is the R32.

Even though cars are heavier these days, at least they are more fuel efficient, with more power, and better safety.
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Old 07-12-2007, 11:15 PM
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As far as the DSG goes- it is simply the best autobox I have ever driven and makes me not fret about the day I get too old and want an automatic. I have a Z4MC and have driven standards for the past 25 years or so. The ZHP that I gave to my wife is the BEST stock manual tranny in the world- smooth as butter and should be on every E46 at least- why the long throws on the standard E46 for all those years? The Z4M is admittedly a more firm shifter since its sporting nature (but I love it of course) but when it is time for next car in 3 years- if BMW doesn't dual clutch auto shift like VW - I will buy an Audi that has DSG (or whatever Audi is calling it these days)
It is that good and smooth. I also own a Mark V GTI and the new R32 with more power will even make the DSG BETTER. I will be trading my GTI in however when they up the hp of the turbo to 230 in 2008 for the 30th anniversary model (or Pirelli model whatever they call it then).
I was hoping the 135 would come in at 3100 lb or so but to no avail. It would be a tough choice the R or the 135. The R will have much more space, be more practicle, nicer interior and have a much better rearward view- (the rear of the 1 looks to be butt ugly) the rest of the 1 looks pretty cool in pictures at least.

I am one of those that feel the E90 and E92 are getting too big (relative term of course) and was looking forward to the 1- I will have to drive and see the genuine article before I fall in love with it.
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Old 07-12-2007, 11:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by philippek View Post
Please note that the figure in that brochure (1560 kg), is based on the EU standard of adding 75 kg for driver and luggage. The true curb weight is 3282 lbs. .
This is closer to reality.
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